PNAC: Striving for a New World Order (another empty Anti-War Leftist Canard) by SergeantX

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

PNAC: Striving for a New World Order (another empty Anti-War Leftist Canard)

POSTED BY: SERGEANTX
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:05
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Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:40 AM

Discuss

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:37 AM

HOTPOINT

At the risk of just making a flippant comment on a serious subject, whenever I consider the actions of the US, both in Iraq and the war of terror, I really don't see any evidence of some kind of master conspiracy.

You should never assume malevolence when stupidity or ignorance explains the situation just as well. The Bush administration isn't bad/evil it's just bad/inept.

Thus endeth the view from the political centre-ground

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

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Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:55 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by Hotpoint:
At the risk of just making a flippant comment on a serious subject, whenever I consider the actions of the US, both in Iraq and the war of terror, I really don't see any evidence of some kind of master conspiracy.

And right you are. There's no secret cabal here. Just a Washington think tank that includes the bulk of Bush's administration. They proudly announced their plans several years ago. Check it out.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, June 14, 2005 7:39 AM

HOTPOINT

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
And right you are. There's no secret cabal here. Just a Washington think tank that includes the bulk of Bush's administration. They proudly announced their plans several years ago. Check it out.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

I'm well aware of PNAC. They're just another example of stupidity and willful ignorance. The hi-larious thing is their apparent belief that if it actually did look like they were going to get their way then the rest of the planet wouldn't (a) notice, and (b) just put aside their differences to put them back in their place. As it is the other world powers are just quietly laughing their arses off at the sheer ineptitude of it all.

We might accept US dominance in World Affairs but US Domination is another matter entirely. The best way to ensure unity in your rivals is by flagging up your desire to control them. The really inexplicable thing is that in the long-term America is not going to be able to keep China in check without help but instead of playing nice with Europe the Bush Administration has been alienating it.

Even if you are a fan of Neo-Realist international diplomacy it should be noted that it's divide and conquer not unite and be conquered!

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

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Tuesday, June 14, 2005 7:55 AM

CONNORFLYNN

Quote:
Originally posted by Hotpoint:
Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
And right you are. There's no secret cabal here. Just a Washington think tank that includes the bulk of Bush's administration. They proudly announced their plans several years ago. Check it out.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/

I'm well aware of PNAC. They're just another example of stupidity and willful ignorance. The hi-larious thing is their apparent belief that if it actually did look like they were going to get their way then the rest of the planet wouldn't (a) notice, and (b) just put aside their differences to put them back in their place. As it is the other world powers are just quietly laughing their arses off at the sheer ineptitude of it all.

We might accept US dominance in World Affairs but US Domination is another matter entirely. The best way to ensure unity in your rivals is by flagging up your desire to control them. The really inexplicable thing is that in the long-term America is not going to be able to keep China in check without help but instead of playing nice with Europe the Bush Administration has been alienating it.

Even if you are a fan of Neo-Realist international diplomacy it should be noted that it's divide and conquer not unite and be conquered!

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

Who's united? The world right now is more divided then it ever was.

PNAC has achieved in partial the first stage in their Middle East plan. The destabilizing of the Middle Eastern Governments and the establishment of long term bases there.

10 or more of the Members of PNAC are active members of the current administration. If you say they are inept..look again LOL

Sorry, it's too easy to turn a blind eye in the name of "There is no pre-meditated motive".

I in good conscience couldn't. Not while my friends get sent away to war. No, I think it's best to always question your governments motives, regardless of how good you think their intentions are.

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Tuesday, June 14, 2005 8:09 AM

HOTPOINT

Quote:
Originally posted by Connorflynn:
Who's united? The world right now is more divided then it ever was.

It's precisely the failure of the PNAC agenda that means the pressure to unite against the prospect of American domination is minimal. With the US national debt skyrocketing, the dollar far weaker than it was five years back and the US Military stuck in Iraq for the foreseeable future where's does that leave those in the US administration seeking another American Century. If they actually did get their act together the international reaction would be a sight to see

Quote:
Originally posted by Connorflynn:

PNAC has achieved in partial the first stage in their Middle East plan. The destabilizing of the Middle Eastern Governments and the establishment of long term bases there.

It's more of a quagmire than a staging area and the destabilisation of easily dominated regimes in the middle-east in favour of forces that are far more hostile is another example of stupidity winning out over malevolance.

Quote:
Originally posted by Connorflynn:

10 or more of the Members of PNAC are active members of the current administration. If you say they are inept..look again LOL

Judge them by their results not their positions. Even if they were moulding some master-plan they've already broken the damn mould.

Quote:
Originally posted by Connorflynn:

Sorry, it's too easy to turn a blind eye in the name of "There is no pre-meditated motive".

If there is a pre-mediated move at work here that just backs up my opinion they are a couple of million neurons short of a cerebral cortex

Quote:
Originally posted by Connorflynn:

I in good conscience couldn't. Not while my friends get sent away to war. No, I think it's best to always question your governments motives, regardless of how good you think their intentions are.

I always question my governments actions (especially given my Government is headed by Tony Blair) and I think the War in Iraq is a disaster, I'm just of the opinion it's more a case of disaster caused by lack of understanding than disaster caused by careful planning.

...................................
Hurrah, hurrah, when things are at their worst
With cries of “Death or Glory” comes the mighty Twenty-First

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Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:32 AM

SERGEANTX

I've never assumed their efforts would be any more effectual than Pinky and the Brain's were. My concern is with the mess they'll leave behind in the wake of their vain attempts.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:35 AM

HKCAVALIER

This puts me in mind of my old theory about evil, that it is much more like a disease vector than a conspiracy. Look at alcoholism. Without secret meetings and classified memos, alcoholics manage to act as a united front in many ways. Or is there more to it...?

You must all have blinders on, not to see the terrible alcoholic cabal that seeks to tear this country apart! What do you make of the legions of suicide-drivers, trying to bring down the infrastructure of every major city in the country! If we look at a few of the tenets of their manifesto a diabolically consistent modus operandi emerges: Periodic spousal abuse followed by flowers and repentance, to control the enemy at home; the promotion of fear and instability by taking every personal comment as a slight and initiating a physical confrontation whenever possible; absolute stonewalling denial when confronted as a member of the conspiracy. What can we do to stop them, when alcoholics permeate every level of society and government? When their ubiquitous sidewalk extortionist raise billions of dollars annually? When they control all print media in their never-ending quest for new recruits?

Another notion I entertain about evil is that the essence of evil is the denial of evil in ourselves. Evil exists in all of us, but we tend not to act on it when we are aware of it as such. We get into trouble when we start seeing all kinds of evil in others, but see ourselves as champions of virtue. Then if we commit evil, we can tell ourselves and anyone who's listening that it was the evil-doers that made us do it. Bush et al deny any wrong-doing, any thing bad, and certainly any evil in their policies. That is madness. It means a bunch of trouble for the rest of humanity. When you can do no wrong, everything you do is wrong.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:05 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
When you can do no wrong, everything you do is wrong.

I would accept that as an axiom.
Well put, HK.

Hk fan Chrisisall

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