Life Imitates Bad Art by Phaedra

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Life Imitates Bad Art

POSTED BY: PHAEDRA
UPDATED: Saturday, July 9, 2005 20:39
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VIEWED: 2995
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Sunday, July 3, 2005 5:37 PM

At 1:52 a.m. (est) Sunday, NASA will launch a probe named . . . wait for it . . . Deep Impact into a passing comet so that they can investigate its core. Now don't get me wrong, I was born and raised and will die a tax and spend democrat. Moreover, I'm generally a big fan of the sciences. But blowing 300 million to bomb a comet when its quasi close to the Earth. Good idea?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0701/p01s03-usgn.html

Phaedra (a bad luck name)

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Sunday, July 3, 2005 6:24 PM

SERGEANTX

Hey, at least this is one bomb that won't go to waste killing people.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Sunday, July 3, 2005 6:56 PM

NEEDLESEYE

Well if someone's gotta blow something up, why not a comet? :D
Fireworks is nice.

---
Blind me with science!

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Sunday, July 3, 2005 7:23 PM

HANITRADER

Nah,

While I'm not up-to-date as to the exact numbers, the impact will only cause (here is where the memory gets fuzzy) the comet to deviate a small fraction from it's current trajectory.

But hey, the money is not so bad... after all, we folk are the most horrific infestation of life this world has seen- it's about time we take a good look at potentially exploitable resources in our neighborhood- we don't have to many left to exploit here after all.

HHHmmmmmmmmm,

I'm feeling a bit tired and cynical tonight...

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Sunday, July 3, 2005 7:49 PM

REGINAROADIE

Well, if I were given the choice as to blow billions of dollars on something, I'd rather blow it on bombing a rock in space for scientific knowledge as opposed to another country for it's oil.

I'm a space junkie as well. Rather see the States try to benefit mankind instead of making it look bad.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

And wow! Hey! What's this thing suddenly coming towards me very fast? Very very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide sounding name like ... ow ... ound ... round ... ground! That's it! That's a good name - ground! I wonder if it will be friends with me?

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Tuesday, July 5, 2005 1:55 AM

PERFESSERGEE

Hmm, perhaps we should examine a few premises and maybe then proceed to a bit of analysis:

Some Important Premises:

1) It's expensive. $300M(+) ain't cheese. There can be no doubt about this.

2) It's nothing like a bomb, it's very, very much like putting a penny on a railroad track and analyzing what happens after the train flattens it. The train doesn't notice much, but the penny does!

3) It might tell us some important things about the origin and history of the stellar system in which we live.

A (short) bit of analysis:

Are we putting ourselves at risk with this study? Nope, not at all. The bolide doesn't intersect Earth's trajectory. In some future century we might get slightly better meteor showers, but not anytime soon and that's about it. But if you didn't watch it last night neither you nor your grandchildren will likely see any further result in terms of what you can see in the sky above.

More importantly, was it worth it? Well this is a question that requires both value judgements and some perspective. The whole mission cost less than a few weeks of the original estimates of the cost of the Iraq invasion. And as we've seen, the original estimates were a grotesque under-approximation.

So, what is the value of what we learned from the first week or so of the Iraq invasion? Does this outweigh the value of what we might learn from Deep Impact?

Pretty hard to know, and it depends on what you think are important values. Personally, I think that the pursuit of science has benefitted humanity one hell of a lot more than the pursuit of warfare. I say this in full awareness of the fact that science has been used all too often to help perfect the pursuit of warfare.

I would much rather see us perfect the pursuit of our understanding of how this stellar system came to be.

perfessergee

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Tuesday, July 5, 2005 9:10 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Phaedra:
But blowing 300 million to bomb a comet when its quasi close to the Earth. Good idea?

I just saw a Micheal Moore movie called 'Comet 9/11' which reveals that the supposed science they are seeking is just a cover. You see Bush is from Texas and NASA Johnson Space Center is in Houston. Back when the Astrodome was imploded by a Saudi Royal working for Haliburton, the Saudis got the idea to get water for Saudi Arabia (a barren desert) from passing comets. So they made a deal to trade Iraqi Oil Vouchers to Bush cronies in exchange for a NASA mission to alter the orbit of a passing comet. Rush Limbaugh, Tom Delay, and several conservative Supreme Court justices framed the UN for the oil diversion and orchestrated the prosecution of Michael Jackson to cover up Arnold Swartzenegger's efforts to keep the Jet Propolsion Labratory from revealing its simple method of endless cheap energy and clean water from going public. Meanwhile the Moonbase, established in 1967 by then-Governor Reagan to provide a stage for the phony Moon Landing, prepared and fired a $50 million dollar probe to "nudge" the comet into an orbit that will result in a collision with earth in 2009. That collision will be averted by the US's new missile/comet defense system, built by Haliburton and a consortium of Republican businessmen. The comet will shatter raining down millions of gallons of water onto the Arabian desert creating a paradise and in an ironic side effect that is a testiment to NASA scientists, physics, and all that is holy, a chunk of comet debris the size of a toyota (a Camry, not a Highlander Hybrid or Land Cruiser) will strike the newly completed 'Freedom Tower' in New York City, an accident that will be blamed on an as yet undetermined terrorist and result in the invasion of Bhutan. In order to cover up and distract the public NASA then paid for another rocket to launch carrying the supposed Deep Impact probe. This $250 million dollar Haliburton-Class Titan IV launched and deposited a satalite in geosynchronos orbit over the State of Ohio to monitor and, if neccesary, prevent minority voters from selecting John Kerry during last years election.

That Michael Moore is a great filmaker, all the more so since he married John Kerry.

H

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Tuesday, July 5, 2005 3:18 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I just saw a Micheal Moore movie called 'Comet 9/11' which reveals that the supposed science they are seeking is just a cover...
That Michael Moore is a great filmaker, all the more so since he married John Kerry.

H

I can now state without equivocation that snorting 107 proof bourbon out your nose due to uncontrolled laughter has an interesting effect on the sinuses.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, July 5, 2005 3:18 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

As to the potential effects of the hit on the comet, (assuming their math was right) it is supposed to be the equivalent of a mosquito hitting the windshield of a car.

I was wondering - the impactor was said to have vaporized - if they are looking at the elements and molecules coming out of the comet, will they be subtracting the impactor's contribution?

Not so much a topic for this event, (see vaporized, above) but out of curiosity, does anyone know if they biologically sterilize these things before they send them off?

I sometimes think that by the time the data has been dumbed-down for news reports, it comes across as being pointless.

The other problem is it loses credibility when it's over-hyped, even though I think there is more of that in bio-medical research. (eg 'Scientists discover reason for symmetry!!' And then you find out they've found a chemical associated with surface left-right symmetry, but they still don't know how it happens.)

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Friday, July 8, 2005 10:09 AM

VANEKL

Yes, satellites are built in clean rooms and are sterile. They have to be because the plume compositon is being analyzed and Earth microbes could jeopardize the analysis. Also helps explain why the costs are so high.

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Friday, July 8, 2005 10:53 AM

PERFESSERGEE

They used a nearly-pure copper impactor because there's never been any sign of copper on a comet (lots of spectroscopy data). Therefore, they can just ignore the copper in the plume and assume that anything else came from the comet.

And you're right, it is getting a lot of hype. But it is the first time we've ever made physical contact with an orbiting comet (and only once before with an orbiting asteroid, though we have plenty of those on the earth's surface). Understanding the origin and formation of the solar system may seem pretty esoteric to some (especially those convinced that they already know its supernatural origin), but IMHO it's not at all trivial.

perfessergee

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Friday, July 8, 2005 3:07 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

THANKS ! to you both. It's great !! having those niggling questions answered.
I do think that kind of research is a wonderful adventure, and I'm hoping to read lots of information about what they are finding.

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Saturday, July 9, 2005 5:42 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by HaniTrader:
Nah,

While I'm not up-to-date as to the exact numbers, the impact will only cause (here is where the memory gets fuzzy) the comet to deviate a small fraction from it's current trajectory.

But hey, the money is not so bad... after all, we folk are the most horrific infestation of life this world has seen- it's about time we take a good look at potentially exploitable resources in our neighborhood- we don't have to many left to exploit here after all.

HHHmmmmmmmmm,

I'm feeling a bit tired and cynical tonight...

1st, we didn't 'bomb' Tempel 1, we merely impacted it so as to get a true idea of what comet's are made of, how old they are....
2nd..HaniTrader..horrific infestation? Dude, I wanna party w/ you... NOT! We'll be 'exploiting resources' for centuries to come, long before we have to reach out and touch the rest of our neighborhood.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, July 9, 2005 8:39 PM

THEGREYJEDI

I'm with Geezer, Hero.

HI-larious.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Chief Engineer - USS SereniTREE
http://tomeofgrey.blogspot.com
Real Fans Wait - 09/30/05

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