Are you a good person? by Truth

Good, bad,... she's the guy with the gun.

Emma not good Chrisisall not good too

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 4:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Pog:
... I'm warning this thread not to get silly again!

My days of taking your warning seriously are certainly coming to a middle.

Bwah!

----
I can see you.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 4:36 AM

EMMA

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Good, bad,... she's the guy with the gun.

Emma not good Chrisisall not good too

How dare you say I'm not good, I'm a saint

*puts AK47 over shoulder and polishes halo*

extremely dimensionally transcendental

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 4:37 AM

No double posts here uhuh, I wouldn't do something like that!

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 4:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Emma:
Mwahahahaha, that pint my man was laced with one half of a deadly poison.
At any point you can be laced with the other half and will die, mwahahahaha

Does it cause brain death?
Cause if it does I'm really quite safe...

*Wishes he hadn't cooked those burgers properly afterall...*

Quote:
Originally posted by Emma:
Free the Monkey Ninjas, let them be free in the world so I can shoot them for target practice with my trusty AK47.

My Monkey Nija's are quite adept at the art of bullet-dodging...
Besides, I've always got the Imperial traffic Wardens "you can't park your landspeeder there buddy!"...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:34 PM

I found one good person test!

http://www.goodpersontest.com/

It said that I'm going to Hell...:(

"If wishes were horses..I'd be riding right now.."

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:42 PM

They didn't ask about any of the more juicy stuff I've done; unimaginative gits. Like quoting silly passages from fairy tales is going to do anything except make decently evil people giggle derisively.

----
I can see you.

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 4:50 PM

DANFAN

And I said, "Yeah, baby! I wanna be bad!"

I says, "Surf's up, space ponies! I'm makin' gravy without the lumps!"

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 5:17 PM

ELWOODMOM

I'm good!

*nose grows a little*

I'm really a good person!

*nose grows more*

Yup, that's me, Saint El!

*leaves sprout, bird starts to build nest on nose*

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:25 PM

PERFESSERGEE

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Ever lie before ? .... when.

I mean .... before when?

Is it like drinking before noon?

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

To my great regret, I've let this highbrowed thread languish all day. Y'all have seriously bypassed me. But, Rue, I have to object. What on Earth-that-was is wrong with drinking before noon? Some of my best ideas........

Well hell, maybe I'd better drop that. Some of them ideas did have a problem about working out. Not that I ever personally drank before noon, mind you.

And then there's Chrisisall, claiming to always lie. Like we didn't already know that, dude. Must be the wages of drinking before noon.

perfessergee

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 9:53 PM

SOUPCATCHER

It's always after noon somewhere.

The same logic circumvents the "never drink alone" rule as well.

Just drink in spirit with the people living in the place where it's after noon.

And, for those keeping score on test results... Straight to hell for me

Nice to know I can now add adultery-by-thought to my list of sins. Who knew?

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Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:19 PM

TRUTH

Are you concerned about going to Hell?

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:03 AM

>>>Like quoting silly passages from fairy tales is going to do anything except make decently evil people giggle derisively.<<<

Well, you can learn something even from the fairy tales sometimes. :)

We need more mutual understanding.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:04 AM

>>>Are you concerned about going to Hell?<<<

No, not really. Are you?

We need more mutual understanding.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Truth:
Are you concerned about going to Hell?

I'm more concerned about being abducted by aliens and taken to the fourth planet of Betelgeuse; it has a higher probability of actually existing--unless you mean the metaphorical Hell where people are forced to watch endless Brady Bunch re-runs and there's no Joss? Nope, that's fantasy, too.

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueSkysMine:
Well, you can learn something even from the fairy tales sometimes. :)

That's true, fairy tales often contain useful morals buried within; but I can take or leave them as I see fit, and few advocates of fairy tales try to force others to follow those morals as though they were law. If they did, they'd embody the concept of real evil. Get my drift?

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 4:09 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Truth:
If anyone thinks of themselves as a good person, take the, "Let's see if your a good person." test.

On topic is today's moral test:

Today I faced the legal ethical dilema of what to do if the person you are bullying in the hallway outside court collapses from a panic attack. Do I:

a) Pretend not to notice and continue my barrage of intimidation and threats.

b) Turn and walk away whispering 'I didn't do it'.

c) Turn and walk away ducking into the Baliff's office to let them know about the problem before continuing on my way.

d) Slap her into submission and inviting others nearby to join in (ala the movie 'Airplane').

e) Admit that, despite my threats, jail was not a realistic probability and try to calm her down.

Note for the record that the woman was a plumpy 40-ish woman charged with Failure to Obey a Stop Sign.

I think what set her off was my evil laugh and my joyful description of the meaning of the term "conveyed forthwith to jail".

H

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 4:54 AM

>>>but I can take or leave them as I see fit, and few advocates of fairy tales try to force others to follow those morals as though they were law.<<<

Yeah, fairy tales are not religious scriptures since they are thought to be just our imagination an scriptures are thought to be real.

If you choose to think that some religion's scriptures are fairy tales; then of course you don't have to take them as fact. In the end it's your opinion.

>>>If they did, they'd embody the concept of real evil. Get my drift?<<<

Forcing something on someone is your thought of real evil?

~~¨~~

Question everything, take what is good.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 5:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueSkysMine:
Forcing something on someone is your thought of real evil?

In general? Yes. More specifically, forcing (or attempting to force) behaviors on me based on beliefs which I do not share--and I'm not interested in the strawman argument of various psychopathologies, I'm quite sane and my meaning is quite plain. My charge is to keep your religion--and your laws that are based on it--out of my life. Failure to do is symptomatic of what I see as a basic evil in the hearts of humans, that need for power/control over others which causes me almost to believe in the concept of "slippery slope" for all I'm well grounded in the logical fallacies.

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 5:09 AM

oh, well, taking things piecemeal I suppose ....

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueSkysMine:
Yeah, fairy tales are not religious scriptures since they are thought to be just our imagination an scriptures are thought to be real.

See, that "are thought to be" passive voice lacks the virtue of attribution: thought by whom? I think "fairy tales" and "scriptures" are synonymous terms.

Quote:
If you choose to think that some religion's scriptures are fairy tales; then of course you don't have to take them as fact. In the end it's your opinion.

No, I think all scriptures are fairy tales; utter fantasy, fiction and only possessing virtue in terms of entertainment value or whatever underlying moral lesson one might take out of or read into it. My objection lies in the attempt to coerce me to behave as though I believed in some portion of it. I understand the need for the rule of law, and that law must be based in the demonstrable common good of the people so governed. Laws that exist purely to pander to the moral or religious beliefs of some, at the expense of the beliefs of others, are unacceptable. Evil men see others living free of their self-imposed religious-based bonds, and they seek to change that condition, and that is why they are evil rather than simply misguided.

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 5:28 AM

THATWEIRDGIRL

I am an evil person that berates herself for not be good.

I lie. Darn good at it too. Am i afraid of Hell? Kinda. I’m afraid of ending my life with a black and corrupted soul.

i can try to do good. If others do not perceive it as good, than it didn't work; I don’t want to be recognized for doing good I just want it to actually be good. I've learned that lesson very recently. If she sees me as evil, than I'm evil.

I'm bad.

I mentor kids and i volunteer and i give things to people that need them...none of that matters when you consider the evil thoughts that dance in my head. Truly black and demented. I'm sick....maybe that's why i fit in so well here...

*wanders off looking for drink...thump*

*checks title of thread*

How did the evil ninja monkeys get in here?

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 5:52 AM

SpinLand:
I agree with your general sentiment about religous scriptures, i.e. shouldn't be taken as litteral truths, more as a moral guide, but comparing them to fairy tales isn't entirely accurate, and could be insulting to some

.
I think the problem lies more with some twisted individuals reading into things what they want to read from them, and then forcing their beliefs on to others...

TWG:
They're not Evil Monkey Nija's, there just misunderstood...
And they used the door, btw

.

Everyone, at least everyone I've ever met, has some pretty bad thoughts, what makes someone evil would be acting on them...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 5:59 AM

THATWEIRDGIRL

uh huh.

So acting on them was the wrong thing to do?

oh boy...

www.thatweirdgirl.com
---
"...turn right at the corner then skip two blocks...no, SKIP, the hopping-like thing kids do...Why? Why not?"

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
... comparing [religious scriptures] to fairy tales isn't entirely accurate, and could be insulting to some .

There are some who would be deeply insulted by the very notion their particular flavor of "scripture" isn't some sort of Divine Law. I won't take responsibility for what other people choose to become insulted by. To me the comparison is apt: fictional/mythical tales created to teach some sort of moral lesson. They're one and the same in my view.

In all honesty there is a level of resentment that informs what I've written above; for that I will take responsibility. I'm deeply offended by the actions of some people I've chosen to label as "evil," and that offense is bound to come out in my words. C'est la Vie.

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:32 AM

>>>religous scriptures, i.e. shouldn't be taken as litteral truths, more as a moral guide, but comparing them to fairy tales isn't entirely accurate, and could be insulting to some .<<<

Those who believe in those scriptures should understand that not all people believe in them and give them their right to label them as fairy tales.

I think probably America has too much fundamentalism going on so that all the political figures and in public discussion you just have to be on your toes to not to insult any religious sentiments.
Thank God I'm not living in the U.S!

We need more mutual understanding.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 9:17 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueSkysMine:
Those who believe in those scriptures should understand that not all people believe in them and give them their right to label them as fairy tales.

No. The majority of religous people are not fundamentalists. The point you seem to be missing is that these people live their life believing, rightly or wrongly doesn't matter, that those 'fairy tales' are real. Who are you or anyone else to label their entire life and belief system as a fairy tale?
The point is that saying a religion is a fairy tale (which is what your doing by saying the stories that are the fundation of said religion are fairy tales) is belittling that belief system and those who follow it.
You don't have to be on your toes not to insult people (well maybe fundementalist, but not 'normal' people) just have some respect for their beliefs, as they are as valid as yours.

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:18 AM

TRUTH

Quote:
Originally posted by BlueSkysMine:
>>>religous scriptures, i.e. shouldn't be taken as litteral truths,

We need more mutual understanding.

Do you believe in absolute truths?

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Truth:
Do you believe in absolute truths?

SNARK

Absolutely not.

/SNARK

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:50 AM

What do you believe in Truth? Are you a good person?

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
I think what set her off was my evil laugh and my joyful description of the meaning of the term "conveyed forthwith to jail".

I won't say you are bad, just highly questionable.
Save the rough stuff for the honeys, them bein' in need of consoling and all.

Dubious Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 12:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Truth:
Do you believe in absolute truths?

Absolute truths may be out there, but we are subjective beings, and not one of us can ever truly get around that.
So in the end, for all of us, the answer is that it doesn't matter.

Treat others as you would be treated is the basic rule (of course, some like to fight, and make war, and rape, or be killed themselves, and that's where the real difficulty with that rule comes in).

No easy answer here Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:36 PM

>>>religous scriptures, i.e. shouldn't be taken as litteral truths>>>

That was actually me quoting Citizen. Those were not my words.

Do I believe in absolute Truths?

I don't know if I can answer that right now.
I would like to believe there is a reality independent of each of us that has certain truths and laws. I don't know.
After I lost my Christian faith, I have been mostly just observing and trying to find out what I really believe in. That is quite difficult actually. And fun too. I like to be a wanderer of a some kind, I guess..

I've found out that you can't just make up your mind and decide you're going to believe in something, if you really don't like the idea or can't accept it for reason or another.

"In the beginning, the universe got created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and was widely regarded as a bad move" ;)
- Douglas Adams

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:43 PM

We appear to have at least one or two things in common, BlueSkysMine; I'm just crankier about it.

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 1:53 PM

BlusSkysMine, how did you lose your faith, if you don't mind me askin'?
A highly personalized version of Buddism works for me. Ever read anything on it?

Whatever you end up with, may I suggest that you make it yours, and yours alone? That way the truth doesn't get covered in dogma.

When I was six, I went to Sunday school, and our teacher woud use colourform cartoons to illustrate the stories from the bible. Every time I asked a question, I got the same type of answer: God works in ways we can't understand.
As a kid, I thought: If my father was like God, I'd never know WHAT was goin' on...

My first inkling that the religion was not for me.

Pagan Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:07 PM

>>>We appear to have at least one or two things in common, BlueSkysMine; I'm just crankier about it.<<<

You've lost your faith too?

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:08 PM

Is it harder to attempt live by a prescribed moral framework which can not be altered, or to attempt to derive and live your own moral framework which you can change?

Better to know you are bad to break the rules even if you can't agree with all of them, or to know you are weak by not being able to live up to your own expectations?

I still can't decide - your thoughts thread.

Best £7.95 I'm ever going to have spent.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:11 PM

Indeed. I was brought up in Christian schools, did the whole born-again circuit, was actually quite insufferably smug and Biblical about pretty much everything.

One day it just stopped making sense. Not long after that I quit pretending, and moved on. I've experimented with various other belief systems in the years since, but have generally settled on a sort of unfocused spirituality that seems to get the job done--at least I've stopped feeling the need to be looking. And I have little tolerance for seeing my old self in others (that may have come across just a wee bit around the edges

).

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:19 PM

>>>BlusSkysMine, how did you lose your faith, if you don't mind me askin'?<<<

I lost my faith because I had unrealistic expectations and tried to 'make myself believe' in some things for a certain goal.
My parents were not religious at all, it was all my own seeking.

>>>Whatever you end up with, may I suggest that you make it yours, and yours alone? That way the truth doesn't get covered in dogma.<<<

Oh, don't worry about that, the only person I truly believe is me. ;)
And I feel it quite difficult to try to receive some kind of dogma. And why should I? I feel that my own understanding is just fine and enough for me for now and maybe for the rest of my life.
I really don't want that any outside source or some authority tells me what to believe.
I never was even the type who gets drawn inside some cults and tight groups. I need so much space for myself that it's just impossible for me to get entangled like that.
Many things interest me though, as long as I can be an observer. ;)
Maybe I should start studying anthropology...

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:30 PM

(sorry, I didn't mean to give you the finger, I thought that emoticon was like 'waving' the finger..)

>>>And I have little tolerance for seeing my old self in others<<<

I guess I'm starting to realize that myself ;)
I still have some Christian friends, some of them more Christian and some a bit less. One minister actually, yet she's not really that religious type. :)

What kept me for a long time in those circles were friends, my expectations and the fact that I love singing and dancing. I really liked the worship meetings. I still think that it's much better to sing and dance in a meeting like that than in some bar when you're drunk...;)

***********

Life is paradoxical

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:41 PM

No prob with the finger.

Some of the most fun I've had in worship service was with a neo-pagan circle I spent a couple of years with. One of the regulars played the sarod, and had learned several Ragas (religious-themed meditation pieces) from a Hindu friend of his. I transposed a few of them into guitar, a couple of other people played various percussive things, and we would sometimes just have these meditative jam sessions. Very relaxing and restorative. Alas, I was still military at the time and was transferred away, and then we lost touch. I also have very fond memories of singing in Christian choral groups; sometimes it seems those were the times I really felt connected to what whas going on. Music is an interesting tool for getting to a lot of places in one's head.

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 2:59 PM

Thanks, B (do I sound like Faith here?),
That was interesting.
This turned into a very cool thread indeed.
Good night all my Pagan, neo-Pagan, Christian, and Whateverist brothers and sisters.

Sleepy Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:02 PM

'Tis also bedtime for Spinny. G'night, all you interesting peeps!

----
I can see you.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:17 PM

Good nite. I already decided that I'm not going to sleep tonight..it's already morning here...

I live at nite..

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 3:57 PM

TRUTH

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
What do you believe in Truth? Are you a good person?

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Well, Since I've lied, committed adultery in my heart, stolen, wished and wanted everybody elses crap, killed people in my heart thru hate, used the name of God to express discust, designed a god in my mind that suited me, ignored going to church for years, thought and cared for a stack of Ben Franklin's more then God, and lastly, dishonored my parents and their name by doing all of the above, according to Mat 19:17 that my friend would be an unfortunate no, I'm not good. However, I wish I was.

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Thursday, August 25, 2005 10:35 PM

Fair enough...

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Friday, August 26, 2005 11:08 AM

HKCAVALIER

Well this is sad. I'm talkin' to allaya's. Yeah, that means you, Mr. Isall. I'd say the lot of you failed the test except it sounds like your prospective self-esteems have taken a hell of a beating already in your lives. Not one of you could spit the meally out of your mouths and say, "Yes, god damn it, I'm a good person! Aren't you?" What am I gonna do witcha's? I'm disgustipated!

Hey, are these confessions the kind of things you'd tell your kids? "Daddy, are you a good person?" "No, sweetie, I have very evil thoughts which preclude me from ever being good. Sorry, now finish your breakfast." No you don't! You tell your kids that you're a good person 'cause it's true. Because it's the kindest thing to say, not just to your kid but to yourself. And you're kind people. Most of you.

And you have a sense of humor. Well, most of you.

(Oh, and Truth, you sound like you might be the type to actually lecture your children on the sinful nature of man; if you are, please, keep it to yourself--I don't want to know.)

We are here on this Earth to make it a better place for the ones we love. We are here to learn to know ourselves. The folks on this board are uniformly idealistic and humanitarian in their outlooks. We want the world full of highly moral, intelligent, emotionally engaging television (gimme a "hell yeah!"). Even the most hawkish, seemingly bloodthirsty among us, would never be advocating the violence they advocate if they didn't feel that their loved ones were in great danger. Confused? Yes. Bad people. Not a one. On the other hand, those of you who disagree with me know that I'm not really a close up friend of terrorists. I accept that you understand me to be confused. I know you don't think I'm a bad person.

None of us has the full picture of what we've had to contend with in our lives. Most of our most heroic personal accomplishments go by utterly unnnoticed because we were just doing what had to be done at the time. That's why we have friends and lovers and spouses, to remind us of their admiration for our good works when we're too close to really see the truth.

So, take a deep breath, look the world in the eye and say, "I've done my best, though I don't realize it; I've conquered innumerable evils, though I haven't noticed; I'm smarter than I look and love guides my hand when I let it; and even when I don't, love teaches me to right myself and do better."

No one could do a better job with the life you've been handed than you. No one. You are the expert. So don't piss on your good works, just 'cause you're not perfect. Recognize that you're a work in progress and accept that you're doing the best you can with what you've been given. And if you're well and truly convinced that you are really a bad person inside, then quit drinking or get some therapy or something, 'cause that shit ain't healthy.

What are ya all staring at? Get back to work!

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Friday, August 26, 2005 11:14 AM

Quote:
And if you're well and truly convinced that you are really a bad person inside, then quit drinking or get some therapy or something, 'cause that shit ain't healthy.

Got any numbers?

Q: What do you have when you are holding two little green balls in your hand.
A: Kermit's undivided attention.

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Friday, August 26, 2005 11:21 AM