REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Leadership (according to some)

POSTED BY: SEVENPERCENT
UPDATED: Sunday, September 11, 2005 06:05
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Friday, September 9, 2005 6:19 PM

SEVENPERCENT


A few days ago, while responding to criticism about Bush and the Federal Gov't's job at handling disasters, Hero posted the following comment:

Quote:

I think its that moment, you remember, during one of the debates when Gore is following Bush around and Bush turns, gives him the up and down look and a majority in most of the states all looked at their TV and said 'he just won the election'. I said it and I was right. Once more I thank God we elected Bush. Gore would be curled up in a fetal position right now begging Saddam and Bin Ladden to spare us the wrath of Allah's hurricanes


Now, I remember this, because I responded to that particular post with no small bit of anger. So I was a might shocked when I saw this article, which I find fascinating:

Quote:

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (Sept. 9) - Al Gore helped airlift some 270 Katrina evacuees on two private charters from New Orleans, acting at the urging of a doctor who saved the life of the former vice president's son.

Gore criticized the Bush administration's slow response to Katrina in a speech Friday in San Francisco, but refused to be interviewed about the mercy missions he financed and flew on Sept. 3 and 4.

However, Dr. Anderson Spickard, who is Gore's personal physician and accompanied him on the flights, said: "Gore told me he wanted to do this because like all of us he wanted to seize the opportunity to do what one guy can do, given the assets that he has."

In the speech, Gore urged that the Bush administration be held accountable for the government's inadequate relief response, particularly "when the corpses of American citizens are floating in toxic floodwaters five days after a hurricane struck."

Bush administration officials have said Katrina's damage could not have been anticipated, but Gore rejected that.

"What happened was not only knowable, it was known in advance, in great and painstaking detail," Gore told the Sierra Club's national convention. "They did tabletop planning exercises. They identified exactly what the scientific evidence showed would take place."

An account of the flights was posted this week on a Democratic Party Web page. It was written by Greg Simon, president of the Washington-based activist group FasterCures. Simon, who helped put together the mission, also declined an interview.

On Sept. 1, three days after Katrina slammed into the Gulf Coast, Simon learned that Dr. David Kline, a neurosurgeon who operated on Gore's son, Albert, after a life-threatening auto accident in 1989, was trying to get in touch with Gore. Kline was stranded with patients at Charity Hospital in New Orleans.


"The situation was dire and becoming worse by the minute - food and water running out, no power, 4 feet of water surrounding the hospital and ... corpses outside," Simon wrote.

Gore responded immediately, telephoning Kline and agreeing to underwrite the $50,000 each for the two flights, although Larry Flax, founder of California Pizza Kitchens, later pledged to pay for one of them.

"None of the airlines involved required a contract or any written guarantee of payment before sending their planes and volunteer crews," Simon wrote of the American Airlines flights. "One official said if Gore promised to pay, that was good enough for them."

He also recruited two doctors, Spickard and Gore's cousin, retired Col. Dar LaFon, a specialist in internal medicine who once ran the military hospital in Baghdad.

Most critically, Gore worked to cut through government red tape, personally calling Gov. Phil Bredesen to get Tennessee's support and U.S. Transportation Secretary Norm Mineta to secure landing rights in New Orleans.

About 140 people, many of them sick, landed in Knoxville on Sept. 3. The second flight, with 130 evacuees, landed the next day in Chattanooga.

Associated Press writer Terence Chea in San Francisco contributed to this report.


09/09/05 19:18 EDT


Copyright 2005 The Associated Press.



Huh. Interesting. One man was flying into New Orleans that day to do something. Another was flying over New Orleans, coming home from vacation. Sorry Hero, but I have to say, I don't share your confidence that the right man won the election.

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Friday, September 9, 2005 6:51 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


It seems to me, if a private citizen could have arranged the evacutation of a hospital... why the hell could the government not have done it ?

You figure they have more resources and less red tape...

mind you, I suppose " Charity Hospital " is likely in the low rent end of town ?




Don't think they give a shit

I'm with Signy and Rue

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Friday, September 9, 2005 7:32 PM

OURMRREYNOLDS


Private citizens can do ANYTHING quicker, simpler, easier and cheaper than the govt. That bloated plutocracy can't even pave f***ing roads. I know a guy with stitches all the way around his cranium that can do that. I give it a decade and the space program will be gone or comatose, replaced by private citizens who actually want to acomplish something. Terrorism? Call in every SEAL, Ranger, SpecOps guy, the Mossad, give 'em a pic of ol' Osama and say "An extra $5 million if you get a head shot." Over in a week. Man, the beaurocracy is so busy fisting itself they are actually crippling the relief effort. I've got a Yoda plush toy that displays more leadership than our current prez. At least Yoda can look me in the eye.

Cynicism is the smoke that rises from the ashes of burned out dreams.

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Friday, September 9, 2005 8:41 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by OurMrReynolds:
Private citizens can do ANYTHING quicker, simpler, easier and cheaper than the govt. That bloated plutocracy can't even pave f***ing roads. I know a guy with stitches all the way around his cranium that can do that. I give it a decade and the space program will be gone or comatose, replaced by private citizens who actually want to acomplish something. Terrorism? Call in every SEAL, Ranger, SpecOps guy, the Mossad, give 'em a pic of ol' Osama and say "An extra $5 million if you get a head shot." Over in a week. Man, the beaurocracy is so busy fisting itself they are actually crippling the relief effort. I've got a Yoda plush toy that displays more leadership than our current prez. At least Yoda can look me in the eye.

Cynicism is the smoke that rises from the ashes of burned out dreams.



Quit trying to run the world, and your " terrorist " problem likely would go away too...

just saying

Don't think they give a shit

I'm with Signy and Rue

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Friday, September 9, 2005 8:44 PM

OURMRREYNOLDS


What part of my post made you think I approve of ANYTHING the govt does??? And why is terrorist in quotes? Is there a better term for someone who murders civilians by the thousands in order to inspire fear and Terror?

Cynicism is the smoke that rises from the ashes of burned out dreams.

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Friday, September 9, 2005 9:20 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by OurMrReynolds:
What part of my post made you think I approve of ANYTHING the govt does??? And why is terrorist in quotes? Is there a better term for someone who murders civilians by the thousands in order to inspire fear and Terror?

Cynicism is the smoke that rises from the ashes of burned out dreams.



I didn't mean to imply that yiu support anything, only commenting on what you seem to say is just...

As for using the term " terrorist " I would have to call both sides of it " terrorist " because surely the bill would fit... and I might add the US has directly as well as indirectly supported the terror and deaths of far more people than you yourselves have lost...

If things are to change, that would need to change as well, if not there will always be someone who will come after you...

I don't think anyone is wearing a white hat anyone





Don't think they give a shit

I'm with Signy and Rue

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Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:49 AM

PERFESSERGEE


I’ve been reading the newspapers and various threads, and thinking and fuming about them, since before Katrina hit landfall, with increasing distress as I’ve looked at the response to the catastrophe. It’s abundantly clear that there were screwups at all levels, from neighborhood to nation, but those who claim the most authority should be held most accountable. With that in mind, I have a couple of questions that I think are rather important, and that I’d like to see answered:

1) Why is it that Pres. Bush chose to fly back home from his vacation retreat on immediate notice to sign a bill (let us please note that it was an unconstitutional bill) intended to benefit one individual white woman who had been brain-dead for many years, while it took him several days to return from a long vacation (how many of you readers can take 5-week vacations?) to start overseeing a natural disaster that had been predicted by his own administration to kill thousands of human beings? Let us also note that that prediction has been confirmed to the most grotesque degree. Might it have something to do with the fact that the Katrina victims weren’t part of his “base”, a group that he so assiduously courts – and which doesn’t include the mostly-poor and mostly-black people who were left behind to live or die as chance would have it in New Orleans? And please don’t insult the intelligence of readers of this board by claiming it was local or state responsibility – only the most idiotic administration apologists are going to buy that ration of BS. By Presidential decree, the feds took control and responsibility 2 days before landfall.

2) Where are the howls of outrage of those who claim to be the staunch defenders of human life? Where is the voice of the Christian right in demanding accountability for the blatant disregard for human life and dignity, regardless of who might or might not have control? Where is National Right to Life? Where is the Christian Coalition? Or are the (now mostly former) residents of New Orleans not worthy of humanity and dignity? Enquiring minds want to know why there's such a deafening silence.

One can only hope that there’s a truly Special Hell for hypocrites…………..


perfessergee

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Saturday, September 10, 2005 3:11 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I was considering the top THREE appointments to FEMA. We depend on them for recovery from massive disaster or terrorist attack. If I were selecting candidates, I'd make sure that they were experienced and capable. So... what about those top three? Did they ever demonstrate leadership in a crisis? Technical or legal knowledge? Superior organizational skills?

Nah... I guess you could say they were all more or less political hacks... college roommates, drinking buddies, former publicists. The kind of person you'd appoint where political patronage was more important than other considerations. The kind of person you'd appoint if you didn't care about the job. The kind of person you'd appoint if you didn't care about American health and welfare.

And then I thought... but, that's been THE defining characteristic of the Bush administration all along. If you look at Bush's (or Cheney's) decisions on bankruptcy, Social Security, Iraq, tort "reform", the environment, more consideration was given to everything BUT our well-being. After all, there are corporations to protect and friends to reward.

Bush (or Cheney) is a leader, and an effective one at that. But I think we don't understand what he is leading us TOWARDS.



Please don't think they give a shit.

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Saturday, September 10, 2005 5:50 AM

SEVENPERCENT


Quote:



2) Where are the howls of outrage of those who claim to be the staunch defenders of human life? ..... Enquiring minds want to know why there's such a deafening silence.





Oh, they haven't been silent, Perfesser. Their true colors are coming out right now, as a matter of fact. Check out this link -

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/currentevents/a/katrinaquotes.htm?n
l=1


-to see what most of them have been saying. Our compassionate Christian leadership has said some of the most insulting, insensitive, and racist comments about the disaster.


I have to say though, I disagree with Signy. Oh they give a shit....if you're a clump of dividing cells or a brain dead white woman. Terror? They're on it. But poor, or black, in a natural disaster? They'll help eventually.

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Saturday, September 10, 2005 6:03 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by perfessergee:
only the most idiotic administration apologists are going to buy that ration of BS.


Are you thinking of anyone in particular?
I am....
H
G
L
A

C

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Saturday, September 10, 2005 6:18 AM

SEVENPERCENT


Here's another good one for you, Perfesser, and you, Hero-

Quote:

One prominent African-American supporter of Mr. Bush who is close to Karl Rove, the White House political chief, said the president did not go into the heart of New Orleans and meet with black victims on his first trip there, last Friday, because he knew that White House officials were "scared to death" of the reaction.

"If I'm Karl, do I want the visual of black people hollering at the president as if we're living in Rwanda?"


http://nytimes.com/2005/09/10/national/nationalspecial/10crisis.html?e
i=5094&en=5e194c087578e640&hp=&ex=1126411200&adxnnl=1&partner=homepage&adxnnlx=1126368649-OVY3Ug6KhjxsQxY6TJH0/w


Remember ladies and gents, in a real crisis, a real leader looks to his advisor who tells him to hide out under a desk for a while.


------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Saturday, September 10, 2005 6:51 AM

CHRISISALL


Don't ask where I found this:

SUPER-SECRET BUSH PHONECALL TRANSCRIPT 08272005 08:42 Contact unknown
PERMANENT COUNCIL MEMBERS L2 AND ABOVE EYES ONLY

" So it's a local matter?...Well sure, if they're as stupid as we think.....in the meeting we had I was told that it didn't matter, in fact we could make a catastrophe work for us....yeah *laughs*, What war, I get it....NO, I was told loss of life would be no different, no matter what we do. I was told that. So it isn't a question of letting anyone die, it's just how do we play it if it hits hard and those a**holes DO f***up like we think they will....yeah, so if it goes well, we send everything in FAST, if it doesn't, well, we'll let them swim in it a bit, so to speak...wait 'til they ask us nicely *laughs*...F**k 'em, they'll say bad things about us in any case!....that's right, win/win.....yep. The approval ratings. Toss one back for me, y'hear?....Adios"


Spykid Chrisisall

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Saturday, September 10, 2005 12:56 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Facts, facts, facts ... the more I read of them, the more pissed off I get.

So don't expect facts in our media, especially on TV. Just lots of lots of sound bites and spin control with Bush prancing around looking concerned and grave.

My conclusion: LEADERSHIP IS THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE SOMEONE ELSE WALK THE PLANK.


Please don't think they give a shit.

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Saturday, September 10, 2005 1:09 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
Facts, facts, facts ... the more I read of them, the more pissed off I get.

So don't expect facts in our media, especially on TV. Just lots of lots of sound bites and spin control with Bush prancing around looking concerned and grave.

My conclusion: LEADERSHIP IS THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE SOMEONE ELSE WALK THE PLANK.


Please don't think they give a shit.




I say roll them all into the damn bog ....

innocent ...

guity ....

who cares, anyone in government goes right into the bog



Don't think they give a shit

I'm with Signy and Rue

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 6:05 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:


My conclusion: LEADERSHIP IS THE AUTHORITY TO MAKE SOMEONE ELSE WALK THE PLANK.

I made that sound pretty good, huh? I can almost see that exact phone call taking place. It's all like a game to them....

Chrisisall

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