REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

IGNORE TROLLS!

POSTED BY: RUXTON
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 17:11
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2334
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Sunday, September 11, 2005 10:57 AM

RUXTON


It now seems evident that one poster on this forum is a paid government agent, tasked to support the current administration on this forum (and most likely on others) regardless of vast and proven evidence that establishes said government to be a lying, incompetent and generally untrustworthy entity full of crooks.

The only way to deal with such posters (and there are a few others who are NOT HELPING) is to absolutely ignore everything they post, never responding to any bait they throw out. It does no good to ban them because they can change a few parameters and return in another guise. To reply to their retorts, no matter how angry they may make you, is to feed their egos, so they can drool over the attention they got while they (most likely) masturbate in front of their computer screens in the dark.

This post may seem harsh, but I believe if we ignore those whose comments fly in the face of facts and reason we may actually begin to ACCOMPLISH something, like finding answers to serious questions concering Katrina (or Corrina, as Laura Bush wants to call it), such as who benefits, was the dike sabotaged, was there an agenda behind those who failed to act swiftly, why REALLY is foreign aid being denied, what are the ramifications of the bio labs submerged in the N.O. area, and a few other serious questions these assholes don't want us to touch.

Thank you all for your time.

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 11:17 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by Ruxton:
It now seems evident that one poster on this forum is a paid government agent, tasked to support the current administration on this forum (and most likely on others) regardless of vast and proven evidence that establishes said government to be a lying, incompetent and generally untrustworthy entity full of crooks.

The only way to deal with such posters (and there are a few others who are NOT HELPING) is to absolutely ignore everything they post, never responding to any bait they throw out. It does no good to ban them because they can change a few parameters and return in another guise. To reply to their retorts, no matter how angry they may make you, is to feed their egos, so they can drool over the attention they got while they (most likely) masturbate in front of their computer screens in the dark.

This post may seem harsh, but I believe if we ignore those whose comments fly in the face of facts and reason we may actually begin to ACCOMPLISH something, like finding answers to serious questions concering Katrina (or Corrina, as Laura Bush wants to call it), such as who benefits, was the dike sabotaged, was there an agenda behind those who failed to act swiftly, why REALLY is foreign aid being denied, what are the ramifications of the bio labs submerged in the N.O. area, and a few other serious questions these assholes don't want us to touch.

Thank you all for your time.



Yep. Let's censor everything but Ruxton's opinions. Maybe Rue's, Siggy's and Chris's as well. That's the kind of America we want. We don't want any dissention from the party line here. Who needs more than one point of view expressed?

Man, you guys are pathetic. If you can't actually prevail in debate, you decide to change the rules to make your outlook the only one allowable.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 11:47 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
That's the kind of America we want. We don't want any dissention from the party line here. Who needs more than one point of view expressed?


Isn't that what Bush wants, or am I missunderstanding the patriot act?


Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 12:55 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by Ruxton:
It now seems evident that one poster on this forum is a paid government agent, tasked to support the current administration on this forum (and most likely on others) regardless of vast and proven evidence that establishes said government to be a lying, incompetent and generally untrustworthy entity full of crooks.

The only way to deal with such posters (and there are a few others who are NOT HELPING) is to absolutely ignore everything they post, never responding to any bait they throw out. It does no good to ban them because they can change a few parameters and return in another guise. To reply to their retorts, no matter how angry they may make you, is to feed their egos, so they can drool over the attention they got while they (most likely) masturbate in front of their computer screens in the dark.

This post may seem harsh, but I believe if we ignore those whose comments fly in the face of facts and reason we may actually begin to ACCOMPLISH something, like finding answers to serious questions concering Katrina (or Corrina, as Laura Bush wants to call it), such as who benefits, was the dike sabotaged, was there an agenda behind those who failed to act swiftly, why REALLY is foreign aid being denied, what are the ramifications of the bio labs submerged in the N.O. area, and a few other serious questions these assholes don't want us to touch.

Thank you all for your time.



Well.....

I have taken to ignoring Finn, I get more of an honest debate from my cat anyway...

People have been down on AJ lately, but while you can't change his mind on anything, he does try to make a point here and there...

Geezer seems to me much the same way, trys to make his points ( a little less open to info he doesn't like ) but if that is the way he feels

If you just want to open discussion on a topic, you never have to respond to those pitching another agenda... and to be truthfull for those who choose to challange opinions of people opposed to your viewpoint... if your facts are in order, your point is made by the arguements of some of these guys......

Anyone simply reading these threads, reguardless of where they stand can make up their own minds, of course I doubt many unsupported, outright false arguements will influence the opinion of someone willing to take the time to read through the amount of material that goes through here...

Just my opinion...



Don't think they give a shit

I'm with Signy and Rue

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:00 PM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
That's the kind of America we want. We don't want any dissention from the party line here. Who needs more than one point of view expressed?


Isn't that what Bush wants, or am I missunderstanding the patriot act?



No. You understand the Patriot Act very well. You are choosing make it something it is not. Willfull misunderstanding.

This week I convicted someone who took a similar approach to the law regarding International Driving Conventions. Thought that meant he didn't need a driver's license. He was wrong and I'm sure he'll feel oppressed during his MANY hours sitting in jail and many more hours serving the community. Your wrong too, but in your case the proof is that govt agents are not locking you up for your dissenting opinion. If they do come lock you up (for your opinions, not something else) then I'll concede the point. Let me know.

That said, the point of this line of discussion is Mr. Ruxton's ongoing efforts to block ideas he does not agree with. I could, like Ruxton, ask you all to ignore him, or, as he also has done, call upon the moderator to ban him. I don't think either approach is correct.

Engage him, challenge him, discuss with him. Minority opinion, mine on some things, yours on others, have a vital role in the evolution of Political Thought.

I think the variety of opinion expressed here, by people both within the United States and outside, make it a great place for ideas to flourish. Mr. Ruxton disagrees.

I invite you to express your own opinion on the subject. Mr. Ruxton, if I understand him correctly, only invites you to echo his own opinions on this subject.

H

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:19 PM

CITIZEN


Considering the fact that I live in Britain I'd be very worried if American Gov agents came knocing at my door...

And I've watched the development of the patriot act with growing fear for the so called country at the forefront of the free world...

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:22 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
That's the kind of America we want. We don't want any dissention from the party line here. Who needs more than one point of view expressed?


Isn't that what Bush wants, or am I missunderstanding the patriot act?



I'd have to say "yes" to you misunderstanding the Patriot Act. I notice you don't have any trouble expressing yourself. The only attempt to limit expression of opinion I've seen lately is Ruxton's.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:34 PM

CITIZEN


Then please explain what the patriot act is for.
and I have no trouble expressing myself cause I live in a country with freedom of speech and information, we call it Britain.

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:49 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Then please explain what the patriot act is for.



Well, the title line is:
a) SHORT TITLE- This Act may be cited as the `Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT ACT) Act of 2001'.

So I'd guess that means it's for intercepting and obstructing terrorism. Sure doesn't seem to be shutting up the posters in this thread that are from the U.S.

Quote:

and I have no trouble expressing myself cause I live in a country with freedom of speech and information, we call it Britain.


Right. I forgot that. And your freedom of speech and information is guaranteed in which document?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 1:50 PM

CHRISISALL


Ruxton, I look foward to your posts, and they are insightful, but I can't back you on this one. Technically speaking, a Troll hinders discussion, or destroys continuity. Heaven knows there are some folks here that believe in the Tooth Fairy, but unlike what many Presidents have managed to do and get away with, bein' stupid ain't a crime. Let 'em have their say, almost nobody's totally 100% wrong about everything. And if they really get ridiculous, well, that just points the way to the truth in another fashion, now doesn't it?

BTW, I really want to hear more from you about this!!!
Quote:

Originally posted by Ruxton:
what are the ramifications of the bio labs submerged in the N.O. area



Freedom? It is a Yang worship word, you will not speak it Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 2:04 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
Well, the title line is:
a) SHORT TITLE- This Act may be cited as the `Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism (USA PATRIOT ACT) Act of 2001'.


I'm aware of the opening title for the patriot act. They're hardly going to write:
"for the removal of rights of the citzenry"
are they?
The very name Patriot Act smacks of fascism (noting I'm not calling America or its gov fascist _yet_).

Quote:

So I'd guess that means it's for intercepting and obstructing terrorism. Sure doesn't seem to be shutting up the posters in this thread that are from the U.S.

Not yet, no.

Quote:

Right. I forgot that. And your freedom of speech and information is guaranteed in which document?

Ah, so Britain doesn't have freedom of speech. I can't get any book I want out of the library without it going on a goverment database...
oh no wait hang on...

Britain pretty much invented the notion of individual rights there fella. And just cause you've got the notion written on paper don't mean its set in stone. Maybe we should Amend that huh?
Parliment could NEVER get an act like the patriot act put through lords to become law. Believe me they've tried.


Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 2:13 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Ah, so Britain doesn't have freedom of speech. I can't get any book I want out of the library without it going on a goverment database...
oh no wait hang on...

Britain pretty much invented the notion of individual rights there fella. And just cause you've got the notion written on paper don't mean its set in stone. Maybe we should Amend that huh?
Parliment could NEVER get an act like the patriot act put through lords to become law. Believe me they've tried.



So you have freedom of speach, although your government doesn't guarantee it, whereas we don't although our Constitution does guarantee it. Seems logical to you, I guess.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 2:16 PM

CITIZEN


well, considering your gov doesn't seem to have all that much respect for the constitution, yes, yes it does.

And the goverment over here guarrantees freedom of speech by the way its set up, not for some paper that means nothing, to the people in charge at least.

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Sunday, September 11, 2005 3:38 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by lynchaj:

By the way, how do you become a "paid government agent, tasked to support the current administration on this forum" because I've been doing this for free and am now starting to feel taken advantage of.


Andrew comes through with the funny!!!
LOLROTgorramF!!!
That was classic, man.
Didn't see that one comin'.

Chrisisall*wiping tears from his eyes*

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Monday, September 12, 2005 3:29 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by lynchaj:
By the way, how do you become a "paid government agent, tasked to support the current administration on this forum" because I've been doing this for free and am now starting to feel taken advantage of.

FFF.net has been infiltrated by the government! I’m pretty sure he’s serious too. That’s what gets me all kinds of funny. I wonder if he thinks there is a department buried deep in the FBI or NSA or DIA whose stated mission goal is to “infiltrate and observe FireflyFans.net forum.”

-------------
Qui desiderat pacem praeparet bellum.

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Monday, September 12, 2005 3:52 AM

BARNSTORMER


I know. He probably got the idea from Arianna Huffingtons web site.

Nothing like a good old wacky conspiracy theory to put a smile on your face in the morning, Huh?

But then again, If I WAS a paid government agent infiltrating this website, I would say something like that, would'nt I.......

Hmmmmmmm

I'll be back later, I think I'd better do some research on my motives.......

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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Monday, September 12, 2005 4:09 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Then please explain what the patriot act is for.
and I have no trouble expressing myself cause I live in a country with freedom of speech and information, we call it Britain.



Here's the best simple explanation I've found:
"The USA PATRIOT Act broadly expands law enforcement's surveillance and investigative powers. In particular, the law raises complicated questions with respect to what constitutes a business record and the law's broad definition of computer trespassers. The law also creates a new relationship between domestic criminal investigations related to foreign intelligence."

In my opinion, the laws most obvious effect is to expand existing law enforcement powers previously reserved to investigating organized crime. It allows such tools and broadened powers to be used to investigate terrorism, but almost more importantly we can now investigate terrorist funding and support organized through charity and religeous organizations across the nation.

Is it effective? Seems to be. Is it too much? Maybe. But the overreaching legislation is in step with traditional American legislation of similar types going all the way back to the original Sedition Act. The courts will gradually roll us back into line while allowing some immediate addressing of pressing law enforcement needs.

Congress could have exempted the Court's power to review the Act, they chose not too, thus the Court is free to find its own way on the subhect.

H

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Monday, September 12, 2005 4:14 AM

CITIZEN


Thanks for that Hero.
Hey! Are you calling me simple

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Monday, September 12, 2005 4:16 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I wonder if he thinks there is a department buried deep in the FBI or NSA or DIA whose stated mission goal is to “infiltrate and observe FireflyFans.net forum.”


More of an Office really in the Fish and Wildlife Building's basement. Next to the guy who writes Barbara Streisand's political commentaries.

H

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Monday, September 12, 2005 6:04 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


There are clearly times when posters behave in a very trollish manner. I would just ignore THOSE posts.

As far as being a paid propagandist... Although it find it very diffiuclt ot understand WHY osme people believe as they do, I don't think anyone is being paid. I just think they're seriously mind-bent... but then, that's just my opinion.

Please don't think they give a shit.

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Monday, September 12, 2005 6:30 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


Hello,

I am deeply distressed to see yet another call to label those with dissenting opinions as 'trolls' and to get them banned officially or unofficially.

As an aside, I've never read the Patriot Act. I have understood it to mean that civil liberties can be suspended if you are suspected of certain crimes. (Which seems awful.) But I've never read it. Incidentally, the people who voted on it likely never read it, either.

I do find it likely that the document was prepared long before September 11th, ready to go out at an opportune moment. That's disconcerting.

I'm almost afraid to know what laws get passed with rediculous contents, because of apathy or because of fear.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, September 12, 2005 6:34 AM

THIEFJEHAT


I never reply to political threads...until now. I prefer to post about things related to Firefly, namely my theories related to the mysteries of the show and my analysis of the various factors of the verse. Plus I enjoy talking about buffy, angel, and Joss in general.

Why do you all get so worked up about politics on here? Are there not hundreds of political sites and blogs to bicker at? I hate that when I come here I have to sift through the political threads to find meaningful Joss/Firefly related threads. I mean really...I work during the day and listen to conservative talk radio. Then I come home and watch the Liberal news media. I hear many points of view...from both sides...and sometimes I yell at the radio voice who is being a neocon and sometimes I yell at the bleeding heart liberal on TV. But I never bring it here.

The best way to keep the political BS from bothering everybody is to simply not promote it. By creating a thread called "Ignore Trolls" to curb the political talk you only promote it.



Do not fear me. Ours is a peaceful race, and we must live in harmony.

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Monday, September 12, 2005 8:42 AM

RUXTON


ChrisIsAll,

THANK YOU! Finally someone saw past the surface warning of this thread, right to the heart of the matter. To counter the responses that ignoring certain people will not help further our discussions, another thread begun by SignyM asked a simple question, i.e., who benefits from Katrina and its piss-poor handling. Immediately the thread was clogged with a meaningless discussion about how water ought to be supplied, to the complete detriment of the topic for me and whoever else didn't want to paw through a lot of crap to see what folks had to say. In short, that immaterial discussion ruined the concept of the thread. It's not my opinions that I want to force others to accept (I read most other's posts whether or not I agree with them). But when a troll wastes space and time with crap that doesn't add to the discussion, I'm all for ignoring them. (I have been guilty of same in past.)

To answer your specific query, ChrisIsAll, I questioned why there seemed to be a movement to forcibly evacuate New Orleans at gunpoint, and wondered if there might be something very nasty but unmentioned lurking now under the water, that isn't being discussed. The next day I found this:
http://www.thememoryblog.org/archives/000588.html,

which is a discussion of biological labs in the Mew Orleans area:

"Summary: At the very least, there are two Level-3 biolabs in New Orleans and a cluster of three in nearby Covington. They have been working with anthrax, mousepox, HIV, plague, etc. There are surely other labs in the city."

I have seen no further discussion of this, nor other mention. However, I understand the residents wanting to remain in N.O. are now not being forcibly removed, per MSNBC last night (Sunday). So there may not be a problem, but I actually wonder how there can NOT be a problem from these bio labs.

And I don't want to read through water-bottle arguments in order to read others' opinions about things like that.

THIEFJEHAT You are probably right on the money. However, I (and I'm far from alone) get all in a rage when I see failed leadership in the face of disasters, and doubly so when my research leads me to folks who are clearly to blame, and are getting away with it. When I know they've gotten away with a lot more in the past that is being overlooked, it just gets worse. Remember Ruby Ridge? It was a clear case of government out of control, as was Waco. But some misinformed people still back the government on those events. So when I see folks jabbering without thinking, and failing to see the obvious, I attack them. All they throw up to defend their positions are more lies and attacks at those who see through them. I'm sure this will continue on this forum as well as on others. However, I have noticed over the past coupla years some folks have indeed awakened, so all is not in vain. Most of the posters here seem to be of way-above-average intelligence, even those I don't agree with. So it makes for more pleasant discourse over time to post here rather than on political forums.

Thank you for your time.

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Monday, September 12, 2005 9:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


You know Ruxton, I didn't even see that part of your post. Guess that's what I get for not reading carefully! But it's a significant point. The one thing about biologicals... unlike chemcial and radiological weapons, they can increase with time.

Please don't think they give a shit.

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Monday, September 12, 2005 11:49 AM

SEVENPERCENT


Quote:

Originally posted by thiefjehat:


Why do you all get so worked up about politics on here? Are there not hundreds of political sites and blogs to bicker at? I hate that when I come here I have to sift through the political threads to find meaningful Joss/Firefly related threads. I mean really...I work during the day and listen to conservative talk radio. Then I come home and watch the Liberal news media. I hear many points of view...from both sides...and sometimes I yell at the radio voice who is being a neocon and sometimes I yell at the bleeding heart liberal on TV. But I never bring it here.




Partly, I think, we do it because of our love for the show. Hear me out here, before you roll your eyes. What sets this site apart from many political blogs is that at least on this site, regardless of political stance, we share something in common with each other (our love for all things Firefly). That gives us common ground, and humanizes our opposition. I think Hero can be a Class A ass sometimes, and I'm sure he thinks the same of me, but deep down I see him as another working stiff that loves my favorite show. On other political sites, where people post anonymously, and with nothing in common, it's just meaningless drivel from some computer name on a screen. Here, at FFF.net, it's passion from people who care, and who, even if you disagree with them, would be willing to sit down with you and have a beer and watch 'Jaynestown' with you, and laugh at all the same parts. You don't like wading through the posts, and that sucks (I myself don't go near the voyaging ship-thingies if I can help it; frankly, I'm not sure I get it), but try to remember that one thing we all share with you is love for the show. This is home to a lot of people, who could find other fan sites anywhere. I don't always like what my family has to say, but I by all means let them say it, because they're family.

Just my 7% -

------------------------------------------
He looked bigger when I couldn't see him.

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Monday, September 12, 2005 12:28 PM

ICARUS


What in the name of the gopher that lives in my front yard! (I don't really know his name) I thought we were talking about trolls! Then, a few scrolls down....the Patriot Act....hmmm... Anywho, I totally support you in the Anti-Troll Movement. Maybe your idea for the deep sea biolab for studying trolls would work... Oh well. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. By the way, where did the abreviation for troll come from?

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Monday, September 12, 2005 1:01 PM

RUXTON


ICARUS, your first two sentences hit my point exactly. Thank you.

Ok, I'll bite. What IS the abbreviation for "troll"?

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Monday, September 12, 2005 2:35 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Icarus:
I thought we were talking about trolls! Then, a few scrolls down....the Patriot Act


Yep sorry, my bad...
Meant to be a kinda throw away comment, but erm, of course those don't tend to happen around here...

And I believe Troll came from Trolling, as in Trolling for a bite...

Zen Buddhist to the Hotdog Vendor:
"Make me one with everything."

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Tuesday, September 13, 2005 9:40 AM

RUXTON


CITIZEN, you may be right about the use of "troll" on forums. I had thought it to be what we called the ugly thing under the bridge, as from fairy tales.

Live and learn.

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Tuesday, September 13, 2005 5:11 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Now here we have a difference of opinion.

I would have said the disinformation specialist was Geezer.

Finn is far too predictable in his approach. He will take any topic (doesn't matter which), find or make up a minority opinion, and ride it as if his life depended on it; completely ignore every fact and link to the contrary, then engage in personal atttacks to keep the thread going. I think it's his personal game to feel superior.


Please don't think they give a shit.

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