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Originally posted by chrisisall:
Hey Gino, let's not kick the man when he's about to get impeached...
*crosses fingers*

Chrisisall

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
lolROTF!!
Wait 'till Hero and AURaptor get a hold of this!!!

Whew, that was funny.



this must get broadwaved....

Chrisisall, needing an 'on the floor' emoticon

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I already posted that the dems should have done this with Clinton. But the dress thing was stupid. Clinton should have been impeached for one of the following:

1. Waco
2. Iraq (1/2 mil + dead)
3. Blatant extension of executive power
4. Whitewater
5. Assassinations and internal spying.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


Good to know you guys are pulling for Osama.

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Even John Schmidt, an associate attorney general under Clinton's Justice Dept., supports Bush's program.

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Chill, my Browncoat brother, just appreciate the jab at Bush, from whatever direction, is all.

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
He's just a trained chimp, working for Cheney, Mr. 'I love bill clinton' and, argh, it's not even worth the time to type.

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because you know it all to be true...

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I strongly suspect that you are very aware that Bush is more like Clinton than he is like any GOP president, but you don't care because you like them both

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Originally posted by chrisisall:

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
He's just a trained chimp, working for Cheney, Mr. 'I love bill clinton' and, argh, it's not even worth the time to type.

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DT, please excuse AURaptor, he's one of those lost souls who voted for Unification (Bush), and now is scrambling like heck to justify the Operative's actions (Iraq) so he doesn't feel like just a trained space chimp himself.
In AURaptos's world, he must be without sin.
The rest of us have the option of re-evaluating our beliefs when needed.

(Sorry AU, you asked for this, you always bein' SO serious and such, we're not solving global problems here, we're sharing ideas- you just get so MAD...I did that around the time of Katrina on a thread, and still feel like an ass about it. I make mistakes, and you do too.)

The all-to-human Chrisisall

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's so childish to presume that I 'voted for Unification ' what not because I happen to take offense at such jokes, or don't appreciate commments preferring W being shot instead of impeached. I guess I make the mistake in thinking that most folks who post here are of at least a mature mind, even if not actualy mature in years.

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I, for one, don't want anybody shot, but a joke at W's expense is always liable to tickle me a bit.

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This post started with a joke which put OBL in a more favorable light than President Bush.

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But you're being a dick to me is a problem.

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I'm just absolutely sure I'm right....I guess you're a democrat

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I honestly thought that you'd have gotten use to folk doing that by now. I really did.

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Originally posted by citizen:
Well, never thought a little joke could spark this off.



Dreamtrove:
I’d say Chris was more of a Shepard Book than a captain Mal.

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Firstly I fail to see how this sets OBL as better than GWB. Really can't see where you're coming from there.

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I know you like to think the Sun shines outta Bushy-boys arse an’ all, but seriously he aint the good Christian soldier you like to make out. His orders are responsible for more civilian deaths than Osama's, and no I'm not saying his better than Saint Bush.

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Originally posted by Auraptor:
Then quite frankly, you're either a liar or an idiot.

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The joke was clearly meant to belittle not only Bush, but his entire administration.

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That's why I replied to those who think it's funny that this bastard OBL could gain any support from any human being.

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How you DON'T see my point of view is a bit perplexing, but I'm not losing any sleep over it.

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I don't need to be told what or how I think about Bush, or anyone else for that matter. If I'm asked, I might tell ya.

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He is who he is

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His orders didn't start this mess, and I for one am proud for the effort which has been undertaken by US and coalition forces to SAVE lives.

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But that might be too far beyond your mind to grasp, so I'll just move along.

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I needed no other reason to reply to your thread except in the way I did.

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I made my comments fairly clear, and if you need any extra incentive added, that's all on you.

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You assessment of who has the 'high moral ground ' here is irrelevent to me.

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That's why I replied to those who think it's funny that this bastard OBL could gain any support from any human being.

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Now, I never thought you could get me to oppose any statement opposing OBL, who killed the relatives of people I actually know, but I think there's an implication in this statement I want to object to.

Osama Bin Laden is the enemy. 'Any American' would not have been a problem, but as the enemy, Bin Laden has the support of the enemy, which he has duly earned. He helps their people, and opposes their enemies. As such, he has and deserves their support, and they, the terrorists and their, well, constituents, as it were, are human beings. And that last was the implication which I resented.

I don't think this is what Auraptor meant. But I have begun to suspect that this administration's advisors in private, or at least subconsciously, think of the Iraqis and Iranians as less than human, at least as children who need our stern hand to guide them, and possibly as low as dogs, who need to be cared for, but whose masters deserve their alleigence. If it were not so, I have nothing to explain the events which have unfolded in the ME.

But just as I don't think this is what auraptor meant, I don't think this is what citizen meant. I think his joke could be correctly viewed as auraptor did, but I think that all that was intended was malice against Bush, not elevation of Bin Laden, which may have been an unintention consequence.

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His orders are responsible for more civilian deaths than Osama's,

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I don't think this is factually true. You have to include Bin Laden's asian african and european ops.

Citizen,

Chill. I think Auraptor has a point. Bush the political point of view is different from Bush as a man. As a man, Bush is a completely degenerate individual, who deserves no respect. But Bush, the political entity is totally different, because Bush is just the spokesman for the neocons, who have a political point of view that I disagree with.

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’m sorry, is this Auraptor's fantasy time? GWB didn't cause this mess, so who did order the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq which has caused both countries to destabilise further, the Middle Eastern region to grow increasingly to all out war, upwards of 100,000 civilians to be killed, and an increase in terrorist activity?

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so you obviously LOVE dropping nuclear weapons on civilians..

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Seriously a girl approached me in a club not too long ago, asked if I wanted to buy her a drink and in my druken state I said "why?"
I mean for crying out loud.

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The joke was clearly meant to belittle not only Bush, but his entire administration.

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No really? You worked that one out all on your very own, oh well done! You get a gold star for effort, your mother must be very proud of your amazing powers of deduction.

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Originally posted by Auraptor:
I said W didn't START this mess, but he sure as hell is responding to those who did. Need a road map for this one ? I'll make it easy for you Osama and Saddam.

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I know it's the in thing to ridicule Bush and call him all manner of things unflattering, but he's still smarter than Kerry. Not saying much, but it's a fact.

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There you go again, telling me what I supposidly think, and getting it wrong,..again. Trust me, I know sarcasm, and you do it very poorly. But to be honest, I prefer dropping Atomic bombs to end world wars that have killed millions, and would otherwise kill 100,000's of more civilians and soldiers.

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G'day.

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They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself.

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"The U.S. government has consistently blamed me for being behind every occasion its enemies attack it. I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks, which seems to have been planned by people for personal reasons. I have been living in the Islamic emirate of Afghanistan and following its leaders' rules. The current leader does not allow me to exercise such operations."
-USAma Bin Laden (CIA code name Jew Tim OSSman when in California buying SAMS from CIA), business partner with Bush family since 1947, brother Salem Bin Laden was George Bush Jr's first business partner in Arbusto Oil in Texas, his other brother Shafig Bin Laden was dining with Sir George Bush Sr Knight of the British Empire and Carlyle Group (owner of Serenity) on 9/11/2001 in Washinton DC, CNN, "Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks," September 17, 2001

"I have already said that I am not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other human beings as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people."
-Usama Bin Laden, Ummat magazine, September 28, 2001

"It's easy to imagine an infinite number of situations where the government might legitimately give out false information. It's an unfortunate reality that the issuance of incomplete information and even misinformation by government may sometimes be perceived as necessary to protect vital interests."
—US Solicitor-General Theodore "Ted" Olson, in Jennifer K. Harbury vs. United States, at the US Supreme Court, on 17 March 2002 (his wife Barabara Olson, attoney at law and CNN talkinghead disappeared on September 11, 2001, allegedly on American Airlines Flight 77 that never hit the Pentagon)

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media."
-William Colby, Director CIA, assassinated 60,000 people via CIA Death Squads in Vietnam Wars with Phoenix Project ("drowned" in a suspicious "canoe crash" while cooking dinner in Washington DC)

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Bush Sued by RICO Act - 9/11 victims sue Bush Gang under RICO Act for perping domestic terrorism and mass murder on 9/11/2001. Stanley Hilton vs traitorous media whores Shaun Hannity and Alan Colmes for Jewish Australian porno king pimp daddy Rupert Murdock on Faux News.
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7209.php

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Operation Northwoods - James Banford from ABC News reported on Pentagon's Operation Northwoods plot to perp domestic terrorism in USA to blame a foreign nation and "justify" invasion, declassified in 2000
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/10/7209.php
http://BodyOfSecrets.com

"Towers that fell 'like a controlled demolition'. Planes that vanished then mysteriously reappeared, and crucial evidence that has been lost for ever. In the Pentagon, a top secret team drew up a plan to simultaneously send up two airliners painted and numbered exactly the same, one from a civil airport in America, the other from a secret military airbase nearby. The one from the airport would have military personnel on board who had checked in as ordinary passengers under false names. The one from the airbase would be an empty drone, a remote-controlled unmanned aircraft. Somewhere along their joint flight paths, the passenger-carrying plane would drop below radar height, and disappear, landing back at the airbase and unloading its occupants in secret. Meanwhile, the drone would have taken up the other plane's designated course. High over the island of Cuba, it would be exploded in mid-air after broadcasting an international distress call that it was under attack from enemy fighters. The world would be told that a plane load of blameless American holidaymakers had been deliberately shot down by Fidel Castro's Communists - and that the US had no choice but to declare war and topple his regime. This Top Secret 'agent provocateur' plan - code named Operation Northwoods and revealed in official archives - dates from 1962 when the Cold War was at its height and was declassified in 2000."
-Tony Rennell, London Daily Mail, "9/11 ON TRIAL -Towers that fell 'like a controlled demolition'. Planes that vanished then mysteriously reappeared, And crucial evidence that has been lost for ever. A new book raises bizarre yet deeply unsettling questions about the world's worst terror atrocity…" August 6, 2005
http://www.financialoutrage.org.uk/911_mainstream_media.htm

"Operation NORTHWOODS may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. Operation Northwoods had called for nothing less than the launch of a secret campaign of terrorism within the United States in order to blame Castro and provoke a war with Cuba."
—James Bamford, ABC News, "Friendly Fire - U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba," May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

"In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba. Code named Operation NORTHWOODS, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities. The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro. America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation." The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years. The Joint Chiefs at the time were headed by Eisenhower appointee Army Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer, who, with the signed plans in hand made a pitch to McNamara on March 13, 1962, recommending Operation Northwoods be run by the military. Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer directly there was virtually no possibility of ever using overt force to take Cuba, Bamford reports. Within months, Lemnitzer would be denied another term as chairman and transferred to another job. Ironically, the documents came to light, says Bamford, in part because of the 1992 Oliver Stone film JFK, which examined the possibility of a conspiracy behind the assassination of President Kennedy. "The scary thing is none of this stuff comes out until 40 years after," says Bamford."
—David Ruppe, ABC News, "Friendly Fire - U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba," May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

"We could blow up a drone (unmannded) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters. The presense of Cuban planes or ships merely investigating the intent of the vessel could be fairly compelling evidence that the ship was taken under attack. The US could follow with an air/sea rescue operation covered by US fighters to "evacuate" remaining members of the non-existant crew. Casualty lists in US newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation. We could develop a Communist Cuba terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Flordia cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. Use of MIG-type aircraft by US pilots could provide additional provocation. Harassment of civil air, attacks on surface shipping, and destruction of US military drone aircraft by MIG type palnes would be useful. An F-86 properly painted would convince air passengers that they saw a Cuban MIG, especially if the pilot of the transport were to announce that fact. Hijacking attampts against US civil air and surface craft should be encouraged. It is possible to create an incident which would demonstrate convincingly that a Cuban aircraft has attacked and shot down a chartered civilian airliner from the United States. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be subsituted for the actual civil aircraft and the passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone. Take off times of the drone aircraft and the actual aircraft will be scheduled to allow a rondevous. From the rondevous point the passenger-carrying aircraft will descend to minimum altitude and go directly to an auxiliary airfield at Eglin AFB where arrangements will have been made to evacuate the passengers and return the aircraft to its original status. Meanwhile the drone aircraft will continue to fly the filed flight plan. The drone will be transmitting on the international distress frequency "MAY DAY" message stating it is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by the destruction of aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal. This will allow IACO radio stations to tell the US what has happened to the aircraft instead of the US trying to "sell" the incident. It is possible to create an incident that will make it appear that Communist Cuban MIGs have destroyed a USAF aircraft over international waters in an unprovoked attack. On one such flight, a pre-briefed pilot would fly Tail-end Charlie. While near the Cuban island this pilot would broadcast that he had been jumped by MIGs and was going down. This pilot would then fly at extremely low altitude and land at a secure base, an Eglin auxiliary. The aircraft would be met by the proper people, quickly stored and given a new tail number. The pilot who performed the mission under an alias would resume his proper identity. The pilot and aircraft would then have disappeared. A submarine or small craft would distribute F-101 parts, parachute, etc. The pilots retuning to Homestead would have a true story as far as they knew. Search ships and aircraft could be dispatched and parts of aircraft found."
—Jewish Zionist General L.L. Lemnitzer, chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff at Pentagon, Memo to Secretary of War Robert McNamara - Subject: Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba - Operation NORTHWOODS, March 13, 1962 (declassifed 2000)
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: Jewish Fox TV's Lone Gunmen pilot episode - Broadcast in March 2001, re Jewish General LL Limnitzer's Operation Northwoods plot by Pentagon, CIA and Jewish Ike/LBJ White House to hijack a US airliner by remote control and crash it into the Jewish Rockefeller's World Trade Center, declassified in 2000
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2005/09/6758.php

"I don't trust government. And neither should our citizens."
—US Senator Larry Craig, United States Senate, Committee on the Judiciary, "DOJ Oversight: Terrorism and Other Topics", testimony by US Attorney General John Ashcroft re President George Bush Jr.'s Executive Orders to "legalize torture" of US citizens and refusal to release that memo (felony Contempt of Congress), C-SPAN2, June 8, 2004

"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be."
—President Thomas Jefferson

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator. I don't know where Usama is, and I don't care. The Constitution is just a gorram piece of paper. My daddy owns Serenity The Big Dang Movie - it's FABULOUS!!!"
-George Bush Jr

VIDEO DOWNLOAD:
September 911 Surprise
The shockumentary miniseries - 9 hours
FREE VIDEO DOWNLOAD:
http://september911surprise.com

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Well, Saddam earned that blame, but it doesn't excuse those who already knew that Saddam was a monster and didn't care what he would do. It's like having a psycho in a shopping mall, and so locking everyone in until they starve if the psycho doesn't surrender, and then blaming the psycho for killing the people because he didn't give himself up. Which is exactly what it was. But the psycho is still a psycho, even if he's not to blame specifically for *those* deaths, he has over a million of his own in wars that he started.

You clearly haven't heard me on the subject of Churchill :)

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"We have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait. James Baker has directed our official spokesmen to emphasize this instruction."
-April Glaspie, US Ambassador to Iraq, videotaped meeting with Saddam Hussein on 7/25/90 - Iraq invade Kuwait one week later (New York Times, 9/23/90)

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dreamtrove wrote:
Technically, an awful lot of normal things can be used in a genocide, fences, cars, etc.

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"In the event that I am reincarnated I would like to return as a deadly virus in order to contribute something to solve overpopulation."
—His Royal Highness Prince Philip, husband Queen Elizabeth of Britain, father-in-law of Princess Diana, from autobiography, "Down to Earth: Speeches and Writings of His Royal Highness Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, on the Relationship of Man With His Environment", in chapter titled, "His Royal Virus"

"The damage people cause to the planet is a function of demographics - it is equal to the degree of development. One American burdens the earth much more than twenty Bangladeshes ... This is a terrible thing to say. In order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it's just as bad not to say it."
-Commander Jacques Cousteau, United Nations Corporation UNESCO Courier, November 1991

"The FDA claims that the drugs it approves are 'safe.' This charade is rapidly collapsing. PBS television’s investigative series Frontline has aired a shocking exposé of dangerous prescription drugs and the FDA’s complicity in allowing this outrage to occur. As Frontline found out, the FDA does not conduct clinical trials, because the agency is not in the business of conducting medical research. The FDA instead reviews the results submitted by pharmaceutical companies. In a stunning admission, a senior executive with Britain’s largest pharmaceutical company has stated that most prescription medicines do not work on half the patients who take them. Dr. Allen Roses is worldwide vice-president of genetics at GlaxoSmithKline, admitted, 'The vast majority of drugs only work in 30 or 50% of the people.' Something is wrong when regulatory agencies pretend that vitamins are dangerous, yet ignore published statistics showing that government-sanctioned medicine is the real hazard."
-Life Extension Magazine, "Dangerous Medicine", March 2004
www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_01.htm

"The most stunning statistic, however, is that the total number of deaths caused by conventional medicine is an astounding 783,936 per year. It is now evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the US. (By contrast, the number of deaths attributable to heart disease in 2001 was 699,697, while the number of deaths attributable to cancer was 553,251. Using Leape's 1997 medical and drug error rate of 3 million(14) multiplied by the 14% fatality rate he used in 1994(16) produces an annual death rate of 420,000 for drug errors and medical errors combined. Using this number instead of Lazorou's 106,000 drug errors and the Institute of Medicine 's (IOM) estimated 98,000 annual medical errors would add another 216,000 deaths, for a total of 999,936 deaths annually."
-Gary Null, PhD; Carolyn Dean MD, ND; Martin Feldman, MD; Debora Rasio, MD; and Dorothy Smith, PhD, Life Extension magazine, "Death by Medicine", March 2004 (not counting 1.5-million annual aborticides in USA)
www.lef.org/magazine/mag2004/mar2004_awsi_death_01.htm

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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
People keep throwing this justice word around. Lao Tse says justice is evil. I think he's basically right. I don't blame the makers of guns unless the gun doesn't do what it is supposed to. Technically, an awful lot of normal things can be used in a genocide, fences, cars, etc.

Most responsible are the people who do the deed, and next are those who may have encouraged, or at least intentionally did nothing to stop it, which is where bad presidents are usually found. Terrible presidents are found in the first category. Jackson and Truman were terrible presidents. I've been thinking of Bush as a bad president, but he may be a terrible one.

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Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
perhaps if these are the standard which conduct is judged, those at Fox news better start running scared...

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