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Originally posted by DarkJester:
We do not directly perceive the world around us. Arguing about Evolution or Creation (or ID) is not arguing about reality. It's arguing about patterns of comprehension. It's almost like arguing that Greek star constellations are right, and Chinese star constellations are wrong. The stars remain, and don't care one whit how we name them. It's arguing about which pattern of thought we are going to teach our children to use to filter their experiences through.

It's like having a heated debate over which travel guide is better - the Michelin Guide to Vienna or the Vienna Eyewitness Travel Guide, and never going to visit the city!

Yes, I believe one pattern fits better than the others. But that is a lens I choose to use to see the world around me, and it is not the world itself.

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Originally posted by ImEarly:

You're not alone, I'm one of these believers in an official capacity. the technical term is Theistic evolution, some call it evolutionary creationism.

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Originally posted by reaverman:

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Originally posted by ImEarly:

You're not alone, I'm one of these believers in an official capacity. the technical term is Theistic evolution, some call it evolutionary creationism.

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Okay, why don't you go get evidence that your God even exists at all before you try to pair him up with science? Oh, wait, that's right, you can't...

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Originally posted by ImEarly:
P.S. There are many scientific concepts concerning the beginnings of our universe that exist only in theory, and I believe that it takes scientific ‘faith’ to believe in these theories.

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rue wrote:
Saturday, August 27, 2005 11:02
When I was pre-teen to early teen I used to dream poems, parables and chants. Here are a few examples:

(the picture is the world in space, the voice is a woman's gentle voice with the depth of the voice you hear in your head)
Spin yourself some magic
That you can call your own.
Spin yourself a dream,
And the world can spin alone.

(the picture is an arid, rocky sun-drenched Middle-East setting, the voice is a medium-register neutral man's voice)
A man looked upon the world and its various ways, and became confused.
He asked his god - what way am I to follow that's good?
And his god asked him - do you till your field? The man answered - yes.
And his god asked him - do you know your field? And the man answered - yes.
Then his god said - I say to you, you do not know your field. You must go into your field and turn stones, until you know the shape snd shuttle of each stone.
And the man was content from that day.

(the picture is a ridge top with some dead grasses and a bent, twisted evergreen with snow blowing on it, and a dreary sky; the chanting voice is that of an old, old woman)
Snow blows over the hill,
Wind hits cold against my back.
Long as it's winter, I won't look back.
Oh mercy me -
the Joshua tree.

My days be gone,
My friends be dead.
Wrinkled, dry, without a tear.
Here I am, and I won't look back,
Oh lonesome me -
The Joshua tree.

Wind blows over the hill,
Snow hits cold gainst my back,
I don't see far,
But I won't look back.
Oh mercy me -
The Joshua tree.

Since then, these dreams have gotten rarer, but longer, more complete and more freighted with meaning and insight. And they culminated (I feel) in the 'just enough' dream.

I have always wondered where those dreams came from.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

And many see I.D. as nothing more than the Creationist pig dressed up in fine clothes.

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