GWB Approval Rating 4/24/06 by STDOUBT

America loves a winner!

Still gald he's President. Can't imagine the horror of Kerry or Gore in the W.H.

Also glad the only polls that count are the ones on Election day.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, April 24, 2006 1:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by STDOUBT:

Approve
32%

These are the only Americans that MATTER! The only ones with the VISION!

The kind that helped us choose VHS over BETA!!!!!!

Chrisisall!

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Monday, April 24, 2006 2:03 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by STDOUBT:

Approve
32%

These are the only Americans that MATTER! The only ones with the VISION!

The kind that helped us choose VHS over BETA!!!!!!

Chrisisall!

Too bad. Bush isn't running again. And I suspect many of those who 'disapprove' are ALSO conservatives who are less than thrilled w/ W's weak stance on Illegal immigration, excessive Federal spending, and of course, the price of gasoline, which has absolutely nothing to do w/ his policy, but it's what everyone has to deal with , regardless. And before anyone whines about the war in Iraq, there's a host of other forces which impact the oil market - increased economies in China, India, Hurricane damage to oil platforms / refineries in the Gulf of Mexio, social unrest in Nigeria, and the whacko Iranian President making new threats every other day about nuclear holocaust and vaporizing Israel.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, April 24, 2006 2:08 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Too bad. Bush isn't running again.

I knew it.
You were one of the first to buy VHS.

Chrisisall

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Monday, April 24, 2006 2:22 PM

With a great deal of consistency, I hear from the Bush apologists, who even themselves can't prop him up on his own merits or accomplishments, "at least he isn't Kerry or Gore, because they would just be fucking horrible."

For starters, what isn't fucking horrible about this President's track record?

Secondly, could somebody please elaborate on what exactly Kerry or Gore would have done that would have been so terrible?

Would they have scorned our nation's laws as much as this Presidency has? Would they have ignored and even endangered our national security at the level that this presidency and this buttkissing Congress has? I can go on and on and give specific after specific, but rather than to do that, I'll leave my argument open to attack, so that somebody might actually respond to it, rather than flitting away to post the same old, consistently refuted, propaganda on another thread.

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Monday, April 24, 2006 2:54 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:

With a great deal of consistency, I hear from the Bush apologists, who even themselves can't prop him up on his own merits or accomplishments, "at least he isn't Kerry or Gore, because they would just be fucking horrible."

For starters, what isn't fucking horrible about this President's track record?

Secondly, could somebody please elaborate on what exactly Kerry or Gore would have done that would have been so terrible?

Would they have scorned our nation's laws as much as this Presidency has? Would they have ignored and even endangered our national security at the level that this presidency and this buttkissing Congress has? I can go on and on and give specific after specific, but rather than to do that, I'll leave my argument open to attack, so that somebody might actually respond to it, rather than flitting away to post the same old, consistently refuted, propaganda on another thread.

No, they wouldn't have. We would still be involved with Iraq, but I feel like a number of other things wouldn't have happened/would have actually been dealt with when they did occur.

Though honestly, I was more about Edwards than Kerry in that duo.

What this country really needs is a strong 3rd/4th party to really shake things up.

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Monday, April 24, 2006 2:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall: The kind that helped us choose VHS over BETA!!!!!!

I've only ever known VHS!! I didn't even get a chance to choose!!!

THOSE BASTARDS!

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Monday, April 24, 2006 3:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:

Secondly, could somebody please elaborate on what exactly Kerry or Gore would have done that would have been so terrible?

I imagine that they might have kissed the a** of the status quo, and found nicer, more intelligent ways to state why we must be in Iraq.

On the other hand, I don't see them letting Katrina go down the same way...

Trying to be fair Chrisisall

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Monday, April 24, 2006 3:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Sassalicious:

I've only ever known VHS!! I didn't even get a chance to choose!!!

THOSE BASTARDS!

Beta was superior, but (like Nader) had poor backing, and lost.

I feel for you.

Alpha Chrisisall

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Monday, April 24, 2006 5:56 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:

With a great deal of consistency, I hear from the Bush apologists, who even themselves can't prop him up on his own merits or accomplishments, "at least he isn't Kerry or Gore, because they would just be fucking horrible."

For starters, what isn't fucking horrible about this President's track record?

Secondly, could somebody please elaborate on what exactly Kerry or Gore would have done that would have been so terrible?

Would they have scorned our nation's laws as much as this Presidency has? Would they have ignored and even endangered our national security at the level that this presidency and this buttkissing Congress has? I can go on and on and give specific after specific, but rather than to do that, I'll leave my argument open to attack, so that somebody might actually respond to it, rather than flitting away to post the same old, consistently refuted, propaganda on another thread.

For starters, Bush's tax cuts were great for the country, and I hope they stay fixed.

His response to terrorism was a needed change from the 'treat it like a criminal case ' stance from the previous administration

He had 2 damn good additions to the US Supreme Court ( even w/ the screw up w/ Harriet Myers )

Secondly, Gore and Kerry are flat out nuts. Gore and his Global warming nonsense and Kerry w/ his America sucks position. That pretty much is enough.

And one last thing, only about 1/3 of the people living in America were keen on the idea to break the bonds from England, back before the American Revolutionary War.

Sometimes it's necessary to go with what's best, and not always what's popular

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 8:31 AM

Quote:
For starters, Bush's tax cuts were great for the country, and I hope they stay fixed

Yes, because reducing revenue and increasing expenditure (the great "War on Terrorism") is always a good thing. Last time I checked, debt and an increasing one at that, is a bad thing. I'm not allowed to spend money I don't have, why is he allowed to?

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 9:20 AM

DAYVE

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
the price of gasoline, which has absolutely nothing to do w/ his policy, but it's what everyone has to deal with , regardless. And before anyone whines about the war in Iraq, there's a host of other forces which impact the oil market - increased economies in China, India, Hurricane damage to oil platforms / refineries in the Gulf of Mexio, social unrest in Nigeria, and the whacko Iranian President making new threats every other day

ah, can we talk here....say Auraptor...have I got a deal for you...it's this bridge, see...hell of a bargain....

oh, and just so you'll know....the word gullible is not even in the dictionary....

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 11:29 AM

Thanks for your response Auraptor,

I'll start at the tax cuts that gave American families about an average of 300 extra dollars in their pockets, if I remember the figure correctly, while giving the rich, huge breaks like bush's own tax credit that was about 92,000 dollars. And no, our overall economy is not looking good. It is not saying much for our country that we have the highest poverty rate among industrialized nations, while those who are in the top 1 percentile keep widening the gap. And Jesus, don't tell me that the rich getting tax cuts somehow trickles down to us. It doesn't. That should be obvious by now.

Just look at our oil companies and their windfall profits, yet our gas is getting more expensive, small business's and the middle class are getting squeezed viciously from this price gouging. Why is it that, so often when a company posts awesome numbers do we almost invariably see them simultaneously outsourcing their workers? There is no company loyalty to America or its citizens, and our government, being a corporately propped up one, is no different.

.....
Ah yes, his response to terrorism. He couldn't get Bin Laden when we knew he was in Tora Bora..., and since then said he doesn't spend much time on him. He went to look for America-threatening terrorists where they didn't exist, and even kept trumping up the facts to back up his accusation. He tried to allow a deal to go through with the United Arab Emirates to buy OUR PORTS, people who actually had a relationship with Al Quiada.

He has helped to fuel this idea in the minds of Muslims that we are attacking their faith...he has helped to sanction torture of our prisoners, which EVEN IF you say it wasn't that bad, or that they didn't deserve to be treated better(so many have been freed because there was nothing to try them for, by the way), this has enraged parts of the Muslim world and has fed extremism and anti-Americanism.

Your Right, the Bush administration didn't treat terrorism like a criminal case, they used it as a reason to invoke the 'last refuge of the scoundrel,' they used it as a reason to attack without being attacked, a sovereign secular nation that is now fundamentalist thanks to our meddling.

And they failed to prevent 911 and even made ridiculous comments like "nobody could have expected that they would use planes," when the report handed to them( called 'an historic document', by condi) which was labeled 'Bin Laden Determined to attack U.S.' said?....that's right, that they might try to use planes.

....

I'll mostly leave the supreme court nominees alone at the moment. I think they were horrible as well as another slap in the face to the half of the country that didn't vote for Bush, because he did not pick moderates by any stretch. But I have no specifics that I can remember about their past cases, connections, etc. off the top of my head, besides that one Roberts was presiding over involving the White House while at the same time interviewing for supreme court justice with Gonzales...talk about shady, sleazy, unethical...etc.

.......

Jesus, even the Bush administration has finally acknowledged global warming. Is it nuts when the scientific community by-and-large is on the same page with this? Here's what's nuts. The head of the EPA(appointed by Bush) was caught brazenly editing reports suggesting that global warming was a serious problem. He changed words, cut passages, etc. and then when he was found out, he resigned and took a job with Exxon Mobile.

Or how about this... something like 40 million dollars was spent on funding research projects, by the oil companies, which lo and behold, came up with the conclusion that there was no conclusive data for global warming, just so the bastards could say to us that there was no consensus. If I've got to lean to one side of this debate i'm going to lean to the research that wasn't bought and paid for.

........

I do agree with you on minority opinion versus majority opinion to a point though. That point comes down to how well people are informed, most of which have not been, most of which have not been given the information I posted above by any of our so-called liberal news. People who are informed make informed decisions, and when they aren't, they vote for people like Bush.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:00 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:
gullible

Do the French have a word for it.

They don't have one for Entrepreneur.

Apparently...

And as for majority opinion! Democracy, what a crock of shit, since few men are wise rule by the majority is necessarilly the rule of fools!

I'm smart, I should run the world. I'll be a good dictator, promise.

Besides why are we giving democracy to Iraq? Bush should just choose an American friendly government and fuck the Iraqis. It's worked before, like when the powers that be put pinochett in charge because those stupid idiots chose the wrong government in election, nothing went wrong there.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 12:59 PM

REAVERMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
He had 2 damn good additions to the US Supreme Court ( even w/ the screw up w/ Harriet Myers )

And those would be? All I saw was Bush putting a couple loyal Republicans in what is arguably the most important position in the country. If that's not a major fuckin' mistake, then I don't know what is.

As for Meyers, she was exactly the kind of supreme court justice that we need. A moderate that sees both sides and can compromise to satisfy the people, not her party.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:13 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Sassalicious:
Quote:
For starters, Bush's tax cuts were great for the country, and I hope they stay fixed

Yes, because reducing revenue and increasing expenditure (the great "War on Terrorism") is always a good thing. Last time I checked, debt and an increasing one at that, is a bad thing. I'm not allowed to spend money I don't have, why is he allowed to?

Tax cuts INCREASED revenue to the Federal Treasurey, not decreased. In fact, it's happened every time taxes have been cut. Worked that way w/ JFK, with Reagan and with Bush 43. The Debt isn't a result of the War on Terror, but from excessive social spending, entitlements, and the like. W spends $ like a drunken sailor, and there's no denying that. He's tried to 'play nice ' w/ the Democrats, and it's blown up in his face.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:18 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
the price of gasoline, which has absolutely nothing to do w/ his policy, but it's what everyone has to deal with , regardless. And before anyone whines about the war in Iraq, there's a host of other forces which impact the oil market - increased economies in China, India, Hurricane damage to oil platforms / refineries in the Gulf of Mexio, social unrest in Nigeria, and the whacko Iranian President making new threats every other day

ah, can we talk here....say Auraptor...have I got a deal for you...it's this bridge, see...hell of a bargain....

oh, and just so you'll know....the word gullible is not even in the dictionary....

I see dealing w/ facts is not your concern. Inane one liners is.

Here's a grand idea. Why not try to dispute comment point by point, instead of quips about bridges and petty insults. Perhaps both of us can learn something if you try to have an honest discussion.

It is a dream I have

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 2:59 PM

America loves a winner!

Rightious9

I find it near impossible to have a intellectually honest discussion on much if you try to cliam the economy isn't doing very well. But what the heck, lets have some fun.

The 'rich' EARNED that money, and are being 'allowed' to keep it. It's not GIVING them anything. Your choice of words and phrasing is baffling. Trickle down DOES work, and for anyone to deny that....well, you're welcome to think that.

Oil companies have the smallest profit MARGIN numbers of almost any major corporation. EXXON was at 9% profit in 2005, I believe. Where was the outcry in the Dot Com companies paying their employees outrageous salaries, and they were dealing w/ virtually NOTHING!

.....

Yeah, we've not gotten OBL , yet. Seen him lately? Funny how all we get from him are 'audio' tapes, when before he was constantly on video. Wonder why THAT is. We suspected he was in Tora Bora, we didn't KNOW for dead certain. There's always been a margin of error in trying to track down folks like that.

OBL declared war on the West and the US way back in '97. We were attacked IN NYC by pissed off muslims in 1993, in Clinton's first months of office. Subsequently in the next 8 yrs, the US was attacked no less than 4 more times, all Islamic terrorist. Bush bears the blame for 9/11, yet Clinton gets a pass for all those ? And it IS correct, no one could have expected the use of airliners as weapons. It's one thing to theorize about such events, quite another to see them happne for the first time.

.....

You know little, it seems , about either Alito OR Roberts, other than they're conservative, and therefore must be bad. *sigh* Bush is President and gets to pick whom ever he wishes. Clinton did the same w/ Ruth Bader Ginsberg, and she is FAR more Left wing than Bush's choices are to the Right. And the GOP put up littel fuss over her nomination, as the vote was 96-3 ( 1 no vote ) Bush slapped no one in the face, except maybe conservatives when he tried to slip Harriet Miers onto the bench. Send your friends a card and some flowers to show how much you care, George. Don't treat them to a seat on the USSC.

......

Even BUSH agrees on Global Warming ? ( Where's the laugh emoticon? ) This from a White House that won't committ Fed $$ for embryonic stem cell research...well, not that any of that really matters. Private research is still raking in the $$, all it wants. So there's no real issue there. To keep this brief... the Earth's climate has never, and will never be 'stable' .

............

On being 'informed', there's so much more that can be said. A great deal of what we're being fed by the Gov't and the media is mind numbing B.S. It's the opiat of the masses, in all the colors of the rainbow. My view is that the Gov't should be doing far LESS than it's doing in many areas it has no business , and far MORE in the primary functions of what Gov'ts are suppose to do.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:06 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I'm not allowed to spend money I don't have, why is he allowed to?

{raises hand timidly}.... Because you're not allowed to print money in your basement, like the Feds? Good thing I put a chunk'o change into a basket of currencies. Not like I'm betting against the dollar or anything....

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:08 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Rap-

Quote:
The 'rich' EARNED that money.

How does someone "earn" $50 billion? Certainly not by working!

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:10 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Unwrapped,

Quote:
Tax cuts INCREASED revenue to the Federal Treasurey, not decreased.

Not according to the GAO.

Quote:
The Debt isn't a result of the War on Terror, but from excessive social spending, entitlements, and the like.

Then how do you explain that Clinton brought a SURPLUS to government accounts, even with a full load of social spending, while bushbaby brought a DEFICIT while cutting social spending?

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:10 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Unwrapped,

Quote:
The 'rich' EARNED that money,

What work did they do?

Quote:
Trickle down DOES work

It was bush 41 that called it vodoo economics.

Quote:
Oil companies have the smallest profit MARGIN numbers of almost any major corporation.

Due to loopholes in the tax code that allow them to write off pretty much all their profit.

Quote:
Yeah, we've not gotten OBL , yet.

Too bad, too. The US COULD have had him if it simply agreed to turn him over to the ICC rather than the US. And whose fault was that?

Quote:
And it IS correct, no one could have expected the use of airliners as weapons.

When you own friggin' security apparatus tells you it's a problem and you ignore it - whose fault is that?

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:12 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

'Cause it's voodoo economics, Rue. heh heh heh

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:20 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

OK, Rap, point by point.

Quote:
I find it near impossible to have a intellectually honest discussion on much if you try to cliam the economy isn't doing very well.

What part of the economy is doing well? Profits? Wages? Spending? Exports? Imports? Agriculture? Savings? Industrial capacity? Value of the dollar? Federal deficit? Please be specific and provide supporting data.

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:45 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Unwrapped,

So I read your post again. I tried to figure out how someone could be so deluded. So to borrow an approach from SignyM (and reiterate some of his points):

Quote:
I find it near impossible to have a intellectually honest discussion on much if you try to cliam the economy isn't doing very well.

Be specific. Which part of the economy is doing well. Provide links.

Quote:
Trickle down DOES work.

What does 'it works' mean? Median wages go up? More people work? The government runs a surplus? Production increases? Please be specific and provide links.

Quote:
Oil companies have the smallest profit MARGIN numbers of almost any major corporation.

Please provide links or references to two major oil company's profit margins. Please be specific about what you mean by 'major corporation'. Do you mean automobile, steel, textiles, chips, fast food, chain stores? Provide profit figures for two of them, with links.

Quote:
Yeah, we've not gotten OBL , yet

It's been 4.5 years since the US attacked Afghanistan to get ObL 'DEAD OR ALIVE'. How do you account for the lack of progress finding ObL over so many years?

Quote:
You know little, it seems , about either Alito OR Roberts

WHich one was cited by the ABA for conflict of interest in cases in which he presided? Which one was most often the minority opinion?

Quote:
the Earth's climate has never, and will never be 'stable'.

'Never' and 'stable' are undefined terms. Please define them.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:46 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

flaky connection ...

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 3:59 PM

Actually, I think the number just came out today conveniently enough, and the top 3 oil companies posted record profits AGAIN for the first quarter, of about a 19 percent gain. And infact they are well above all other corporations in profits. Wait...didn't you just hear about the CEO of Exxon Mobile getting a 400 million dollar pension plan? Are you going to tell me he got that inspite of his company doing sluggishly?

It's an amazingly good thing when employees get paid well, or I would have thought. They are doing the labor that is making the company money and should get a share of the profits, wouldn't you say?

If getting to privately advise the Vice President in classified meetings about how the government should run their energy policy, if having the access to the government that gets a country to go to war for the sake of profiteering is all hard work, then you are correct...all the rich people have earned their money, handily, not by creating better products and more advances for americans, but by keeping such advancements at bay, by making deals with politicians they helped to put into office, at the detriment of the rest of us.

It's just not the case that these people at the top are earning all of this money. They are stealing it. And when the credit card companies get to write the bill that our congress ratifies into law on bankrupcy, they are stealing too. and when Enron trumps up energy shortages that raped a whole state of its money...yeah...theft.

But lets take the good guys who are rich...because not everybody is as unscrupulous as the parties I'm speaking of. Now be honest.

Did they really earn every penny of that money? Did they do it without the help of this America, its people, its industry, its laws, its infrastructure? Can you really tell me that all of those things can survive for future generations if we keep taking the priority off of education, if we ignore our poor and let that problem fester? if we allow untold ammounts of a finite financial resource to percolate to the top out of the hands of the endangered middle class(which is happening if you look at the numbers).

And how about people who have inherited their money? Should we really have a defacto royal class in this society that is rich only by the graces of their long dead relatives? What contribution are they making to America? How are they helping us to be a great country? Why should we keep saying that they EARNED it?

This mass consolidation of money is killing competition, hobbling free enterprise, honestly destroying the principles of capitalism, smothering democracy, turning us into a society of untrained workers, because instead of training people like companies used to, they are outsourcing for their skilled jobs...oh, why do you not want to see any of this?

I'll save the other points for another day.

On edit, while I agree with Sygm and Rue, links would be helpful, it would be unfair of me to ask for them as I havn't been giving you them either,

but maybe it would be fair to ask you to cite some examples when you make claims.

oh and the bush thing about global warming...I think I remember reading it, but you might be right about that one...He usually doesn't make mistakes or change his policies, so that would be uncharacteristic.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:16 PM

HARDWARE

There's no sense arguing with Auraptor, he drank the koolaid a long, long time ago.

32% approval rating. Now we know how many of the people you can fool all of the time.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:19 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Rap-
Quote:
The 'rich' EARNED that money.
How does someone "earn" $50 billion? Certainly not by working!

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

Actually, yes. By working and making smart choices.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:20 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Hardware,

I guess that's what I'm curious about. What is going on in their brains?

There are a few here who seem like they really can't help their loose attachment to reality. And then there are others who, by their arguments, seem to know what's normal and what isn't. They try so hard to make bushbaby look normal, capable, honest ... to fit him into a socially acceptable framework. So, how do they glide over the discrepancies that they obviously know exist?

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:22 PM

FREDGIBLET

Quote:
For starters, Bush's tax cuts were great for the country, and I hope they stay fixed.

How are they great for the country? My parents are middle-class and got almost nothing out of the deal (almost). You later mention that trickle-down economics work, how? If I made half a million a year and got a tax cut that gave me another 10,000 I would probably say "that's nice" and dump it in the bank. I already make so much money that I don't need that money to buy the stuff that I want. You claim that revenue increased with the tax cuts, I would like to see proof, I like to think that I am fairly intelligent and I don't see how that works out.

Quote:
His response to terrorism was a needed change from the 'treat it like a criminal case ' stance from the previous administration

Agree, but that doesn't account for Iraq, they had very little to do with terrorism and nothing to do with 9\11. Why not attack Saudi Arabia, Syria or some other country that we haven't already blown the s*** out of? Because Bush wanted Iraq, no president is omnipotent, they will be gone in 8 years or less, they do not have carte blanche over the entire U.S. and the military is not their plaything.

Quote:
He had 2 damn good additions to the US Supreme Court ( even w/ the screw up w/ Harriet Myers )

The social liberal in me shudders at the new justices being called damn good. I pesonally feel that the Supreme Court should be ruled by moderates, with the flexibility to change with the times and the rigidity to not shift with every passing fad, not conservatives who think that progressive is just an insurance company, and whose minds are too often ruled by religious doctrines that a healthy portion of Americans do not share. The biggest problem that I have with the new Justices is that Bush shifted the balance from a good one (4 con 4 lib 1 swing) to a not so good one (anything that isn't balanced between con and lib).

Quote:
Gore and Kerry are flat out nuts

Not going to disagree with you but Bush and Cheney are short a couple of stabilizers themselves. In reality I believe in what Douglas Adams (i think) said "anyone capable of getting themselves elected President should under no circumstances be allowed to have the job". I think that there are very few people in the government who actually belong in their posts, and my feeling on this crosses party boundaries with ease.

Quote:
Gore and his Global warming nonsense

Can you show me that global warming is not real, does not have consequences, and is not caused by us? This is one of those things that has been studied to death and had both sides get "proof" that they were right. My opinion? Better safe than sorry, push for better pollution controls without going overboard. That being said I would rather go overboard than have a President that lets the mega-corps do what they want.

Quote:
Kerry w/ his America sucks position

Not so sure on this one, I think that Kerry was not a super-patriot but this goes a little overboard.

Quote:
Sometimes it's necessary to go with what's best, and not always what's popular

But then we come to the age-old question of who says what's best? I wholeheartedly agree with you on this point, but unfortunatly I disagree more often than not with what the current administration thinks is best.

Quote:
less than thrilled w/ W's weak stance on Illegal immigration

One of the things that's making me mad right now.

Quote:
excessive Federal spending

I'm 20, I am probably going to reap the rewards of Bush financial mismanagement and tax cuts (that was sarcastic, just making sure you know)

Quote:
he price of gasoline, which has absolutely nothing to do w/ his policy

While OPEC sets the price based on whims, destabilizing the Middle East WILL cause gas prices to go up. This WAS a policy decision that Bush made.

Quote:
Tax cuts INCREASED revenue to the Federal Treasurey, not decreased.

Then why is the deficit so bad? Why is the owner of the national debt clock looking into adding another number to the clock for when (not if) the debt hits 10 Trillion?

Quote:
The Debt isn't a result of the War on Terror

Then where is the money for the war coming from? I have heard some figures that the war is approaching the 10 Trillion mark. is that coming from nowhere?

Quote:
He's tried to 'play nice ' w/ the Democrats

Did I miss something or are we in two different countries? All I have ever seen is the President and a Republican-controlled Congress (isn't that the opposite of Progress?) shutting out the Dems every chance they get. I can't buy the arguement that a minority party is the cause of all the debt, if Bush really wanted to fix the debt he has a majority in Congress and now control of the Supreme Court, there is virtually nothing that he can't do.

Quote:
The 'rich' EARNED that money

I know a few rich people (professionally not personally), from what I have seen they usually do not work nearly as hard as less-than-rich people. To use a target that you won't want to refute, the Kerry's did not work for their money, Teresa (sp?) was born into it and John married into it, they did not EARN it. That being said I do know some rich people who work very hard for their money and they deserve to keep it, but I work for my money so why can't I keep just as much?

Quote:
Oil companies have the smallest profit MARGIN numbers of almost any major corporation

Irrelevant, the companies are telling us that we need to pay more while posting record profits, the margin is beside the point. The point of the arguement is that they are making record profits not exactly how much the profits are.

Quote:
Where was the outcry in the Dot Com companies paying their employees outrageous salaries, and they were dealing w/ virtually NOTHING!

That problem corrected itself.

Quote:
Yeah, we've not gotten OBL, yet

Partially because of Bushs crusade against Iraq, If all of the troops that are in Iraq were in Afghanistan...

Quote:
no one could have expected the use of airliners as weapons

Actually it was mentioned in more than one pre-9-11 report and actually makes perfect sense since air crews are told to be co-operative if they are hijacked.

Quote:
This from a White House that won't committ Fed $$ for embryonic stem cell research...well, not that any of that really matters. Private research is still raking in the $$, all it wants

Don't see where this was brought up before but... If I remember correctly the White House wants to BAN stem-cell research, not just stop funding it. The possible value of stem-cells is being cut out because of the wishes of the ultra-religious-right. I agree that it would be extremely sick to have people breeding embryos specifically to sell them to reasearchers, but at the same time there is no shortage of fertility clinic rejects that are being thrown away that could go to the research.

Quote:
A great deal of what we're being fed by the Gov't and the media is mind numbing B.S. It's the opiat of the masses, in all the colors of the rainbow.

Agree with all my heart.

Quote:
My view is that the Gov't should be doing far LESS than it's doing in many areas it has no business...

...like telling people what morals to live their lives by, sending them out to fight an mostly unnecesary war, pandering to the corporate special interests...

Quote:
...and far MORE in the primary functions of what Gov'ts are suppose to do...

...like keeping the country on firm financial ground, defending the country against REAL (instead of imaginary) threats, protecting peoples liberty...

Sorry for the long post but there was soooooo much to say.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:34 PM

America loves a winner!

Rightious9

Profits are NOT profit MARGINS. Learn to tell the difference between the 2. And EXXON is doing very well, where'd you get this idea of doing ' sluggish' ?

Oil company employees ARE doing well, from what I hear. Have you heard different? Where ?

Show your proof that anyone went to 'war' for the sake of the oil companies. That's just flat out absurd.

Quote:
It's just not the case that these people at the top are earning all of this money. They are stealing it.

Whom are they stealing it from? The members of the board, who voted them to their positions ? The stock holders, who are getting returns on their investments ? WHO??? Credit them for first agreeing on the contracts and then doing well for the company, well enough so they get what all parties agreed on.

Most millionaires earned, and did not inherit their $. True fact.

As for links, do your own research. Seriously, limit your points and I'll try to limit mine, and we'll see what we find.

As for Bush, you missed my point. You're going to give him 'credit' for buying into global warming, yet I'll bet dollars to donuts you don't agree w/ him on embryonic stem cell research, right?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:41 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Unwrapped,

I was hoping you could provide detailed answers to my questions (above).

Thanks.

Rue

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:50 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Unwrapped,

I was hoping you could provide detailed answers to my questions (above).

Thanks.

Rue

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

Sorry, I've got a life. Too busy. DO your own research.

Ok, here's a bone to get you started.

Quote:

Consumer cheer hits four-year high in April
Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:51 AM ET

By Amanda Cooper

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. consumer confidence in the economy reached a four-year high in April as better job prospects temporarily offset unease over rising gasoline prices, according to data released on Tuesday.

In addition, sales of existing homes rose at a pace faster than expected in March, but analysts warned that the upswing could be short-lived, given the rise in borrowing rates.

Other economic data showed consumer spending was stronger in the third week in April than in the same week last year, aided by a late Easter holiday weekend and a spring clothes shopping spree in some parts of the country.

http://today.reuters.com/business/newsarticle.aspx?type=ousiv&storyID=
2006-04-25T155243Z_01_N25397200_RTRIDST_0_BUSINESSPRO-ECONOMY-DC.XML

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 4:51 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

You are making the claims, m' dear. It's up to you to back them up. But if you could back up just one it would help.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:01 PM

So, AURaptor, how many millions have you made? I assume you are a hard working type, dilligent, resourceful and all that.
We don't need rich daddies to start us off, right? Or 'friends' we owe, or ex-friends we undercut or cheated, or special interest groups giving us kickbacks and such...

Made my first mill doin' the clerk thing when I was just a lad. Parlayed that into my 'Ordinary Joe' Empire. Me and all my friends is richer than Buddha right now!

We can't all be Gates Chrisisall

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:02 PM

America loves a winner!

Claim backed up and supported. Now, g'nite.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:05 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Consumer confidence ('we put the con in confidence!), spending and home sales? Are those your indicators of a strong economy?

LEADING INDICATORS: vendor performance, stock prices, index of consumer expectations, manufacturers' new orders for consumer goods and materials, interest rate spread, building permits, average weekly initial claims for unemployment insurance (inverted), manufacturers' new orders for nondefense capital goods, and real money supply.

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=economic_ind
icators&docid=f:00ja05.txt.pdf

Interesting graphs are (p7) total personal income up through 2004 but wage and salary (your work income) flat 2000 - 2002; (p13) unemployment drops steadily 1997 through 2000 then rises significantly above 1997 levels in 2001 and stays there through 2004; well, I gotta go. Family calls. But look through the document. The graphs are 'broken' in 2000 and don't recover.

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 5:52 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So, are consumer confidence, consumer spending, and home sales the indicators by which you judge "the economy"? Think carefully about this Rap. To repeat the question, so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle:

ARE CONSUMER CONFIDENCE, HOME SALES, AND CONSUMER SPENDING THE INDICATORS BY WHICH YOU JUDGE THE ECONOMY? Yes or no.

Or... when consumer condfidence goes down (which it will next month thanks to high gasoline prices) will you choose another economic indicator? The reason why I'm asking is because I don't want to play a shell game with you, where you pop up with indicators du jour. So stick with "consumer confidence" for the rest of the discussion or pick another indicator that you feel is most appropriate.

Once we have decided whether "the economy" really is doing well we can move on to the rest of your assertions.

Also, please recall that you wanted a point by point discussion. So would I.

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

Me and all my friends is richer than Buddha right now!

We can't all be Gates Chrisisall

AWESOME!

Except not because well, everyone is richer than Buddha in monetary terms . . . .

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:06 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well, I'm probably richer than Auraptor!

BTW Auraptor, please see my post above.
---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:40 PM

Oh Auraptor...

what do you think that 96 3 vote for ginsberg meant? It meant that Clinton picked somebody the Repubs jumped on because they thought she was moderate enough for their tastes in presentation...And if they truly thought that she was going to do harm to their values in that seat and still picked her, if that is your contention, then they really screwed their constituents.

It is their job to dissent choices to the supreme court that they think are bad. They have a say in this matter as a check on the presidency. If they aren't using that check when it is warranted, they don't deserve to hold their seats.

Feel free to respond, but I don't expect you to. too many different posts have been heaped on you to respond to them all. Where is Hero when we need him? Where is Finn? Give a brother a hand out here guys.

Oh, I didn't see your post to me until just now. Okay, profits are different than profit margins. You schooled me again. Of course you brought up their profit margin as if it was paltry, and now you've agreed that Exxon Mobile is doing quite well...so which is it?

Yes, it would be absurd for me to say that we went to war just for the oil companies, because that would leave out Haliburton and the Carlile group.

I stand corrected again...thank you.

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Tuesday, April 25, 2006 7:05 PM

Oh, also that part about employees getting paid well being a good thing was not in reference to the oil companies it was in reference to your exasperated question about why there was no outrage at dot com employees getting paid well.

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Wednesday, April 26, 2006 3:28 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

ARE CONSUMER CONFIDENCE, HOME SALES, AND CONSUMER SPENDING THE INDICATORS BY WHICH YOU JUDGE THE ECONOMY? Yes or no.

Jusat keeping this question front and center for 'Rap. For detail, scroll up a couple

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

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Wednesday, April 26, 2006 6:04 AM

CITIZEN

Ahhh, Capitalista's:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/capitalista.htm

Let's get something straight shall we regarding the Voodoo economics (love that term and it really fits) of 'trickle down'.

Trickle down doesn't happen, I doubt even serious capitalist economists believe it does. Trickle down is something that is there to get the gullible in the lower rungs of society behind the idea and allay any guilt those on the upper rungs may feel.

Money isn't real, it's a symbol, a place holder for natural resources, usually equivalent to gold held in the gold reserves of that nation. Essentially printing more money doesn't give you more wealth; it gives you more symbols that are worth less. Simplistically if you put twice as many dollars into circulation today as there were yesterday a dollar will be worth today what 50 cents was worth yesterday.

Therefore it's reasonable to say the total amount of money you have is fixed. Okay you get inflation but that doesn't effect 'trickle down' so for the sake of simplicity we can discount it.

So you have a fixed amount of wealth. The rich accumulate wealth, i.e. they bank more than they spend. So now we have a fixed size resource (wealth) with a group receiving more of this resource than they pass back into the system.

Question: Eventually what happens to this resource?
Answer: It gets depleted.

So how would this depletion of wealth manifest? Well by the distance between the haves and the have nots increasing.

Anyone want to tell me which country of all Industrialised nations should see the effect of 'Trickle Down' the most, which is also the Industrialised nation with the biggest gap between rich and poor and the largest percentage of population living under the poverty line?

Why is this?
Well obviously it's the evil socialist body snatchers and their evil mind control.

Obviously regulations too. Without regulations all those companies that break regulations that are there would suddenly start playing fair, it's all part of capitalist magic.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Wednesday, April 26, 2006 4:08 PM

REAVERMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:
Quote:
Tax cuts INCREASED revenue to the Federal Treasurey, not decreased.

Then why is the deficit so bad? Why is the owner of the national debt clock looking into adding another number to the clock for when (not if) the debt hits 1 Trillion?

Um, have you actually paid attention to the national debt? Last month, it passed 9 TRILLION DOLLARS.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Wednesday, April 26, 2006 7:04 PM

FREDGIBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by reaverman:
Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:
Quote:
Tax cuts INCREASED revenue to the Federal Treasurey, not decreased.

Then why is the deficit so bad? Why is the owner of the national debt clock looking into adding another number to the clock for when (not if) the debt hits 1 Trillion?

Um, have you actually paid attention to the national debt? Last month, it passed 9 TRILLION DOLLARS.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

Damnit, meant to put 10, caught my mistake, edited it and it still shows 1. I'll try to edit it again.

EDIT: fixed, finally.

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Wednesday, April 26, 2006 7:05 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yo! Rap! Where's that point by point discussion we were both looking forward to?????

---------------------------------
Free as in freedom, not beer.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 2:26 PM