US ANTHEM IN SPANISH by AnthonyT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Gino, don't miss my point.

There are those who oppose immigration reform, and the forgiving of existing illegal immigrants. Some of these people see illegal immigrants as ungrateful moochers who don't respect the country. It's an argument of economics, pride, comfort, racism, and class superiority.

And right now, just as the immigrant reform people are fighting the good fight, you take the US Anthem and do it in Spanish.

There are things you just don't do when you're trying to win support. This is probably one of them.

To some Americans, particularly the ones whose opinions they need to change, this is a big 'Fcuk Yuo' which is not the message you want to convey when you're trying to get a vote.

Try to imagine this scenario:

*******************

You're a middle class american with a handful of generations history in the states. You feel like a 'real american' by virtue of having a great grandfather who was a citizen. Your unemployed son can't find a job. He isn't looking hard enough, or maybe he's not willing to stoop to doing some of the jobs he could get. It's easier to blame the immigrants. You get in your car and drive down the street, and some of the billboards are in a foreign language. Damn immigrants are forcing changes on the country. All the Billboards used to be in English. You go to Mcdonalds, and the kid talking through the speaker at the drive through barely speaks English. You muddle through an order, and pick it up, only to find that it's not what you wanted. Damn immigrants. Why do they hire an immigrant who can't speak English when my son doesn't have a job? Then you drive down the street and come to a stop light. A low-rider with hydraulics pulls up next to you, and it's blasting the American Anthem in Spanish, with overture commentary about immigration reform. Damn Immigrants! Ruin our very own Anthem! Fcuk Yuo when it comes time to vote!

*************

You don't have to be this man, but you do have to understand him if you're ever going to change him.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, April 28, 2006 11:17 PM

OLDENGLANDDRY

Seems pretty simple to me. If you want to become a citizen of a country you should speak it's official language (or at least one of them) and help promote the speaking of same.
I dont remember hearing "God save the Queen" sung in Hindi or Urdu, but I could be wrong (usually am).

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 12:48 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Seems pretty simple to me. If you want to become a citizen of a country you should speak it's official language (or at least one of them) and help promote the speaking of same.
I dont remember hearing "God save the Queen" sung in Hindi or Urdu, but I could be wrong (usually am).

No, but all council rules and documents are printed in just about every language under the sun, which doesn't make all that much sense, considering this is an English speaking country

...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 4:41 AM

SIMONWHO

I think some people in the UK would be delighted to see immigrants singing their love and patriotism for their adopted country.

The people that object to this are the sort that objected fifty years ago to the anthem being sung in public by black people. When a fifth of your population speaks a language, what did you expect to happen?

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:10 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

I don’t have a problem with people singing the Anthem in any language they want, but don’t make up an anthem in a different language and expect me to believe you’re singing the American Anthem, because it’s not. They changed the words to the Anthem to reflect a political statement; ergo it is not the America Anthem, but some parody or imitation of it. It may or may not be just as good depending on your point of view, but I agree with you that this is not presenting the argument of solidarity by people who want to become part of this country, rather it is a divisive and confrontational stunt to slap the face of Americans. Effectively that is how this will be interpreted by many Americans, and I suspect that many people who are doing this understand that. They enter illegally; they wave a foreign flag and they sing a foreign anthem, and effectively the political statement that some are making, and how it is likely to be perceived by many Americans, is that they are entering the country as invaders. Whatever is actually going on, this seems to be the political statement that some want to make, and that would seem to be counterproductive to their goals.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:17 AM

I, personally, don't really care what they do with the anthem. But, I agree with Finn that a hell of a lot of peole are going to be

about it. That really wasn't the smartest move they've (the pro-immigration folks) ever made.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 9:01 AM

FLETCH2

Which national side do they cheer at Baseball?

Fletch (Americanising Tebbitism for the Colonials)

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Thursday, May 4, 2006 4:15 PM

STILLFLYIN

One thing I would like to mention about the Canada example of multilingualism in action. In Canada, when the nation was formed, almost the entire population of the province of Quebec spoke only French. Contrast to America where those who spoke spanish only, came from other countries and the vast majority of those born in America speak English as their first language or the language they speak in most life outside the home.

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Thursday, May 4, 2006 5:49 PM

KELLYOFLUTHIEN

Don't forget that English-speaking Americans were once immigrants as well. In fact, I truly doubt that Native Americans spoke English as their first language before the white man forced them on reservations. A bit hypocritical, eh?

I have no problem with the National Anthem being sung in another language. In fact, I find it highly offensive that some Americans think that everyone should only speak English. There are all sorts of different people in the world, and English isn't even the most spoken language.

For a country that prides themselves on being a "melting pot," some people are sure being a bit two-faced. How on Earth does it hurt Americans if the anthem is sung in Spanish? I think it's a statement that hispanics are an integral part of our society and shouldn't be shunned or overlooked or treated as criminals just because they're different. They are proud of their heritage and also proud of the work they do in America. And I for one support them: they're doing jobs most Americans are too proud to do.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I love my Captain

Check out my Big Damn FF Icons at http://www.livejournal.com/community/bigdamnfficons/

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Thursday, May 4, 2006 9:10 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Our first state constitution here in California (the one from 1849, not the one we're currently using) had the following provision, "All laws, decrees, regulations, and provisions, which from their nature require publication, shall be published in English and Spanish." A reasonable idea since the first language of a number of citizens, especially in the southern part of the state, was Spanish. I'm not sure if some of the members of the first state legislature even spoke English (men like Covarrubias , De la Guerra and Vallejo).

I was doing some research of old Senate and Assembley proceedings and saw one of the budgets and the amount spent on translators and translation was non trivial.

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Friday, May 5, 2006 5:36 PM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

It's a war chant for the Communist Fifth Column invasion and Civil War in USA. Deport the illegal criminals and arrest the US citizens for treason. But first we must arrest the traitors in the District of Criminals who hijacked Uncle Scam.

Quote:
THESE CRIMINAL TERRORIST GANGMEMBERS AREN'T WAVING US FLAGS

VIDEO DOWNLOAD: NATION OF AZTLAN
A "guest worker" bill is estimated to bring in 200 million workers in the next 50 years to compete with Americans in all sectors of the job market. Stop them! Demand workplace enforcement. Demand a border fence. Call your elected officials. Make a visit to their office and give them a brick. fairUS.org has their contact information. You can email their entire staff at OutsourceCongress.org Send free faxes to congress at NumbersUSA.com F.I.R.E. has a listing of National anti-illegal immigration events that you should attend.
www.immigrationwatchdog.com

Exclusive: The Truth About 'La Raza'
by Congrssman Charlie Norwood
Apr 07, 2006
www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=13863

Arizona Sheriff Deputizes 3,000-Man Posse to Arrest Illegal Aliens. 6 Lawyers arrested for organized crime and human trafficking.
www.kpho.com/global/story.asp?s=4850859&ClientType=Printable
http://tv.groups.yahoo.com/group/piratenewsrss/message/228

www.prisonplanet.com

Many Hispanics Say Demonstrators 'Don't Speak For Us' - New organization launched to counter media misrepresentation. "You Don't Speak For Me" is a Hispanic-American coalition that soundly rejects the media myth that the vast majority of Hispanics support the protests and calls for immigration laws to be properly enforced.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/884

Capture the Flag

Blackout On Violent Illegal Alien Invasions of Schools, County Buildings, Stabbings In Santa Ana
Government buildings locked down during protests in fear of attacks. The media has portrayed the immigration protests as orderly and peaceful yet in Santa Ana California alarming reports have emerged of illegal aliens swarming around in mobs invading schools, carrying out violent beatings and in one incident a county worker had a Mexican flag plunged into his chest. Latino Americans For Immigration Reform spokeswoman and senatorial candidate Lupe Moreno appeared on The Alex Jones Show to discuss the two incidents. She first described how on March 27th how a group of rioting Mexicans ran into a local Santa Ana high school and attempted to tear down an American flag. The school police and a police SWAT team had to stand guard to prevent the youths from getting to the flag. This story received no mainstream press coverage whatsoever during the first wave of immigration demonstrations. Moreno said that the Mexican consulate had penetrated Californian schools with books teaching Hispanics that the American flag is a symbol of the enemy.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/883

www.aztlanunderground.com

COVER OF HOT NEW ALBUM: MEXICANS SHOWN SPEARING AMERICAN "PIGS"

506 years of indigenous resistance
The prophecies are coming true
The redemption of the red people has come!
The 6th sun now arises
The 7th fire has arrived
Cihuatl is reclaiming
We have returned to Aztlan
We have returned to Aztlan!!!!
WE DIDN'T CROSS THE BORDERS, THE BORDERS CROSSED US YET THE SETTLER NATION LIVES IN DISGUST!!
GET THE FUCK OUT, GET THE FUCK OUT, GET THE FUCK, FUCK, FUCK OUT GET THE FUCK OUT
WASICHU [White Man] EATER OF THE FAT WASTER OF EARTH MOTHER AND PEOPLE COLONIZER OF AZTLAN AND THE WORLD GET THE FUCK OUT!!!!

Flash Video: "Fuck the Gringos"
www.wehategringos.com

"We have an aging white America. They are dying. We have got to eliminate the gringo, and what I mean by that is if the worst comes to the worst, we have got to kill him."
-Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas, Arlington, founder of La Raza Unida (The Race United)
www.newswithviews.com/Devvy/kidd180.htm

Does that look like American patriots singing the US National Anthem to you? Only a fool would trust someone speaking Mexican and waving a Mexican flag in USA, bragging about causing another Civil War.

It's not all together wise to sneak up on a man when he's handlin his weapon.
-Mal, Heart of Gold

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Friday, May 5, 2006 9:15 PM

PN, do you ever get tired of being a fool? What percentage of immigrants are actually trying to overthrow us and form "Aztlan"? My guess would be pretty damn few. Don't try giving me some BS answer like "they all are after us" because it simply isn't true. I live in San Diego. Most of my friends are Mexican. Most of the people that I work with are Mexican. Most of the people I know are Mexican. Not one has ever shown the desire to wipe us off the face of the planet.

Where the hell do you live? I don't need an adress or anything, just a region. If you live somewhere without many Mexicans, then maybe you should shut the f*** up. I have met them as people. They are regular folks like you and I (well, regular like me; I don't think you can be put in that category). They want what is best for them and their family, just like any of us. Like many people, whether American, British, Canadian, Arabian, Chinese, Japanese, whatever, they dont all think long term. Many are ignorant of what is really going on, just like us.

The simple fact is, there is no grand, sinister scheme to invade our country. It is simple human nature in action: Your home is dying, so you move to greener pastures. If our situations were reversed, you and I would be doing the exact same things.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Friday, May 5, 2006 10:48 PM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

I knew there was a good reason for you to eat me Reaverman. You belong in Gitmo with an electric cattleprod up your orifice. Raped until DOA by natural causes, as legalized by GOP's U.S.A.P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act. And all your treasonous criminal friends, too.

Obviously, you hang out with the criminal element, not the 80% of Hispanic US citizens who want to deport all illegal aliens who are stealing their jobs and pensions. If you gave a darn about Mexicans in USA, you'd plan the overthrow of Mexico, not the overthrow of USA. By definition, illegal aliens are invaders. If they aren't intelligent enough to fix their own nation, WE DON'T WANT THEM. You're just a spineless moronic idiotic twit, who's gonna get exactly what he deserves.

My stupid sister graduated from Yale and worked in Communist Czechslovakia and Commie China teaching English, to aid the overthrow of USA, before she went to law school and worked as a "public defender" in Tuscon. SHE NEVER WON A CASE IN 5 YEARS. She NEVER argued for the US Constitution as a defense, or any other valid legal defense. Her paycheck from Gangsta Govt paid her to lose, to build the Police State gulag for US citizens. I've won more cases pro se than she has. She's such a good commie that she thinks it's cool to hire Mex wetbacks as her slaves. But her slaves have burglerized her home 3 times in 3 years, cops don't investigate, insurance refuses to pay, but she still don't learn. And she married a European citizen who never uses deodorant. They can barely afford a car, working govt jobs for less than 1/10th my parents income. But she loves "globalization" and a 3rd-world lifestyle. She's incapable of reading a history book. They don't believe in home security or self defense. How smart is that? At the rate they're going, Mex gangstas will rape them to death and wear their skin as clothing.

Quote:
County workers in Santa Anna looked out of their windows on May 1st to see Mexicans beating other county workers and police before they rushed towards the government building and stormed it, stabbing one worker with a Mexican flag in the process.

Moreno described the stabbing as seen on a video tape of the incident.

"The men start running and then you can see all these people, and they weren't just kids, some adults and the kids were behind them, but you can see this guy chasing this man down and he plunges the stick of his flag pole into this man's chest."

In all, illegals had broken into five government buildings in the area, causing the county to take the decision to lock down all government buildings during planned demonstrations.

"Why are we letting this happen? It's like a trojan horse, they come bearing gifts to kill us," said Moreno. "Our country is in serious serious trouble. My children do not want to live in the city they were born in anymore because we have been taken over so badly. 78 per cent of my neighbors are illegal aliens."

Why hasn't the media reported on these violent attacks and stabbings? How many more similar incidents have occurred without receiving any coverage whatsoever? Moreno said that government workers were afraid that more attacks would take place to coincide with future immigration demonstrations.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/infowarsnews/message/883

Obviously, your screen name proves your cannibal heritage, just like the Aztecs, who cannibalized 20,000 slaves in 3-day festivals.

And Tennessee is crawling with criminal wetbacks, after the drug-dealing state Gangsta Govt sold Mexican-language driver licenses to 250,000 criminal aliens. You guys REALLY want a Civil War? Don't matter what you want, the New World Odor has it bribed and paid for.

This is how to deal with criminal invaders from Mexico, 6,000 per second
as done to 1.7-million innocent dead folk in Iraq who AREN'T invading USA

Well why don'tcha put HER in charge?!
-Bill Paxton, Aliens

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Saturday, May 6, 2006 3:46 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"If they aren't intelligent enough to fix their own nation, WE DON'T WANT THEM."

Seems like the US would be empty save for the natives if that was the case.

PirateNews, your last post was exceedingly racist and volatile, moreso than usual. I don't think you've actually recommended firing squad minigun death for illegals before.

I'm also dismayed that you hate your sister.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, May 6, 2006 5:16 AM

During the immigration of Italians and Irish, Germans and others, the US went through the same arguments and issues. Nobody wanted them. Italians were forced into cheap labor and lived in slums, the Irish had their churches burned to the ground. People were afraid that the character of the country would change. Well, it did - and what a great change it was. When my grandparents came here from Italy they couldn't speak English, but eventually they learned. They were children and it is easier for children to learn language than adults.

There is no "official" language in America and I really don't think there should be. America is made up of so many cultures, groups, and languages that trying to claim a national language seems absurd.

When we read great works of literature from other countries we read a translated version; when we read the bible, torah, or other religous (sacred) documents, we read an English translation. The Star Spangle Banner is a song, our anthem, and if it helps people feel as though they are a part of the country by being able to sing it in a language they understand then more power to them.

Our isolation on this continent has hurt us greatly. We should all be at least bi-lingual, we should embrace and learn from other cultures. And, I think, we should always look to improve our nation by encouraging a non-stagnant, ever growing population.

JMB9039

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Saturday, May 6, 2006 9:15 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

A hell of a lot of people are going to be pissed about it because the main stream media intentionally made it an issue.

It wasn't an issue when President Bush sang the National Anthem in Spanish when he was whoring for mexican-american votes, but now it is?

And now he's pandering to the supremecist crowd and saying that he thinks the National Anthem should be sung in English...what a tool.

But suppose we entertain this non-issue anyway, as the whole country is doing, thank you fox, cnn and msnbc. America sells itself on being a place where you can come and take your history and your religion with you. Singing the anthem in another language, in my opinion, is a great tribute to our nation...that American ideals(as they are imagined)transcend barriers of language, that we welcome people with varying cultures. This image of America is what that version of our anthem glorifies.

Good things, no?

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Saturday, May 6, 2006 11:22 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

PIRATENEWS

You realy should'nt talk about people getting what they deserve, especially as it seems that you have already gotten what you deserve: a lifetimes sentence of Schitzophrenia and Paranoia.

I should feel sorry for you missing out on all the things that the rest of us in the real world take for granted but I cant. I just cant.
And just because your sister did'nt want to have sex with you does'nt make her a bad person.

How are those out-of-body experiences going for you?
Been murdered by any dentists lately?

"VIVA AZTLAN!"

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Sunday, May 7, 2006 6:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:

Obviously, your screen name proves your cannibal heritage, just like the Aztecs, who cannibalized 20,000 slaves in 3-day festivals.

Actually, if you must know my heritage, I am 100% European (25% Irish, 25% Danish, 50% German).

I'm not even going to respond to the rest of your post. It's too foolish to even bother with.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Monday, May 8, 2006 3:12 AM

Okay, I changed my mind about not responding.

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
Obviously, you hang out with the criminal element, not the 80% of Hispanic US citizens who want to deport all illegal aliens who are stealing their jobs and pensions. If you gave a darn about Mexicans in USA, you'd plan the overthrow of Mexico, not the overthrow of USA. By definition, illegal aliens are invaders. If they aren't intelligent enough to fix their own nation, WE DON'T WANT THEM. You're just a spineless moronic idiotic twit, who's gonna get exactly what he deserves.

Well, it's nice to know there's still one place in the 'verse where logical thought and reasonable discussion hold sway.

That aside, what gave you the idea that I approve of illegals? All of the Mexicans I know are legal. I was pissed at you because you seem to think that all Mexicans are out to get us. If that wasn't the idea you were trying to get across, then I apologize. I know that illegals cause harm. I simply recognize that they are human beings doing what they do to get a better life for them and theirs.

As for them not being "intelligent enough to fix their own country", maybe you should read up on the real reason that all of Latin America is in poverty now (with the exception of a very small, very wealthy upper class). It is the US Government. For over a century, the US has manipulated and extorted those countries until they have nothing left to give. We have no one to blame but ourselves (or the government) for illegals.

One last thing: how could you possibly think that overthrowing Mexico would help? Are you fucking stupid? Where do you think all the refugees fleeing from the inevitable civil war that would ensue would go? Right here.

You're welcome on my boat. God ain't.

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 4:06 AM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Here's an awesome radio broadcast. If CNN, Faux, MSNBCGE, CBS, ABC were American corporations, this is what they would sound like.

Quote:
Audio:Another Pro-American Anti-Immigration vs Anarchist Rally Out In The Streets

by AZ Radio IMC Sunday, May. 07, 2006

53:55 min Audio out in the streets in front of Phoenix Az Mexican Consulate office.This is second by about 200 red white & blue Pro-American,American-First group,confronted by about dozen local Anarchist group.

audio: MP3 at 6.2Mb
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/05/9694.php

Battle of the Bullhorns:
"Only terrorists and criminals wear masks! And cowards! Patriotic Americans don't wear masks!"

Communist Red Star

Note that "anarchists" are employed by police "intelligence" agencies and military special forces as agents provocateurs, as confessed in Seattle during the WTO "riots" and Police State martial law, and jailing of innocent people in the US Navy brig. Just like US Navy Intel's "Commie Russia spy" Lee "Fair Play for Cuba" Oswald.

"You can't stop the signal!"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 6:43 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hey Piratenews,

These EZLN 'Red Communist Star' people seem to have a lot in common with you. You both seem to share goals.

--Anthony

Zapatista Army of National Liberation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from EZLN)
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This article or section does not cite its references or sources.
You can help Wikipedia by introducing appropriate citations.
The flag of the EZLN.The Zapatista Army of National Liberation (Ejército Zapatista de Liberación Nacional, EZLN) is an armed revolutionary group based in Chiapas, one of the poorest states of Mexico. Their social base is mostly indigenous but they have supporters in urban areas as well as an international web of support. Their most visible voice, although not their leader, is Delegate Zero, formerly known as Subcomandante Marcos. Unlike all Zapatista comandantes, Marcos is not an indigenous Mayan.

Some consider the Zapatista movement the first "post-modern" revolution: an armed yet non-violent, despite an uprising in the early 1990s, revolutionary group that incorporates modern technologies like satellite telephones and the Internet as a way to obtain domestic and foreign support. They consider themselves part of the wider anti-globalization movement.

Brief history
This section highlights some of the most important events in Zapatista's history.

The Zapatistas went public in 1994 with the initial goal of overthrowing the Mexican government. Short armed clashes in Chiapas ended two weeks after the uprising and there have been no full-scale confrontations ever since. The Mexican government instead pursued a policy of low-intensity warfare with para-military groups in an attempt to control the rebellion, while the Zapatistas developed a media campaign through numerous newspaper comunicados and over time a set of six "Declarations of the Lacandonian Jungle", with no further military or terrorist actions on their part. A strong international Internet presence has prompted the adherence to the movement of numerous leftist international groups.

Government talks with the EZLN culminated in the San Andrés Accords (1996) that granted autonomy and special rights to the indigenous population. President Zedillo and the Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) however, ignored the agreements and instead increased military presence in the region. With the new government of President Fox the Zapatistas marched in 2001 towards Mexico City to present their case to the Mexican Congress. Watered-down agreements were rejected by the rebels who proceeded to create 32 autonomous municipalities in Chiapas, thus partially implementing the agreements without government support but with some funding from international organizations.

In July 2005 the Zapatistas presented the Sixth Declaration of the Lacandon Jungle. In this new Declaration, the EZLN called for an alternative national campaign in opposition to the current presidential campaign. In preparation for this alternative campaign, the Zapatistas invited to their territory over 600 national leftist organizations, indigenous groups and non-governmental organizations in order to listen to their claims for human rights in a series of biweekly meetings that culminated in a plenary meeting in September 16, the day Mexico celebrates its independence from Spain. In this meeting, Subcomandante Marcos requested official adherence of the organizations to the Sixth Declaration, and detailed a 6 month tour of the Zapatistas through all 31 Mexican states that is taking place concurrently with the electoral campaign starting January 2006.

(translation from Spanish)You are in Zapatista rebel territory. Here the people give the orders and the government obeys.[edit]
Detailed History
The group was founded on November 17, 1983 by former members of different groups, both pacifist and violent. They broke onto the national and international scene on January 1, 1994, the same day that the North American Free Trade Agreement between Mexico, the United States and Canada became operational, as a way of stating the presence of indigenous peoples in the middle of a globalized world.

Indigenous fighters, some of them wielding fake rifles made of wood, took hold of five municipalities in Chiapas, officially declared war against the Mexican government, and announced their plans to march towards Mexico City, the capital of Mexico, either defeating the Mexican army or allowing it to surrender and imposing a war tax on the cities that they conquered in their way.

Unusual for any revolutionary organisation, documents released by the EZLN [1] (In Spanish) before the uprising defined a right of the people to resist any unjust actions of the EZLN. They also defined a right of the people to:

"demand that the revolutionary armed forces not intervene in matters of civil order or the disposition of capital relating to agriculture, commerce, finances, and industry, as these are the exclusive domain of the civil authorities, elected freely and democratically." And said that the people should "acquire and possess arms to defend their persons, families and property, according to the laws of disposition of capital of farms, commerce, finance and industry, against the armed attacks committed by the revolutionary forces or those of the government."

After just a few days of localized fighting in the jungle, President Carlos Salinas de Gortari, then in his last year in office, offered a cease-fire agreement and opened dialog with the rebels, whose official spokesperson was Subcomandante Marcos. After twelve days, the fighting stopped.

The dialogue between the Zapatistas and the government extended over a period of three years and ended with the San Andrés Accords, which entailed modifying the national constitution in order to grant special rights, including autonomy, to indigenous people. A commission of deputies from political parties, called COCOPA, modified slightly the agreements with the acceptance of the EZLN. The new President of Mexico, Ernesto Zedillo, however, said Congress would have to decide whether to pass it or not. Claiming a violation of promises at the negotiating table, the EZLN went back into the jungle while Zedillo increased the military presence in Chiapas to prevent the spread of EZLN's influence zone. An unofficial truce accompanied by EZLN's silence ensued for the next three years, the last in Zedillo's term.

After the dialogue ended, many accusations were made against the Mexican army and para-military groups due to prosecution, detentions and killings of Zapatistas and supporters; one particular incident was the Massacre of Acteal, where 45 people attending a church service were killed by unknown persons. The motives and the identities of the attackers aren't clear, to the point it might not be related to the EZLN at all (however, the survivors claim that they were attacked by paramilitaries).

In 2000 new President Vicente Fox Quesada, the first from the opposition in 72 years, sent the so-called COCOPA Law (constitutional changes) to Congress on one of his first acts of government (December 5, 2000), as he had promised during his campaign. After seeing the criticism and proposed modifications by notable congressmen, Subcommander Marcos and part of his group decided to go, unarmed, to Mexico City in order to speak at congress in support of the original proposal. After a march through seven Mexican states with substantial support from the population and media coverage (and escorted by police to protect the EZLN members), representatives of the EZLN (not including Marcos) spoke at Congress in March, 2001, in a controversial event. The march was nicknamed "Zapatour", and on the day of their arrival an unrelated concert for peace was held. During their stay they visited schools and universities.

Soon after the EZLN had returned to Chiapas, Congress approved a different version of the COCOPA Law, which did not include the autonomy clauses, claiming they were in contradiction with some constitutional rights (including private property and secret voting); this was seen as a betrayal by the EZLN and other political groups. These constitutional changes still had to be approved by a majority of state congresses. Many political and ethnic groups filed complaints both against and in favour of the changes, which were finally approved and went into effect on August 14, 2001. This, and the still recent President Fox's electoral victory in 2000 slowed down the movement, which had less media coverage since then.

As a last recourse to void the changes, a constitutionality complaint was filed to be resolved by the Supreme Court of Justice, which ruled in September 6, 2002 that since they were constitutional changes made by Congress and not a law as it was wrongly called, it was outside its power to reverse the changes, as that would be an invasion of Congress' sovereignty.

Until 2004 many people believed Subcommander Marcos had fled from Chiapas. Attempts to contact him failed or were answered by email or Internet publications. Although Marcos has denied to be the head of the Zapatista movement, presenting himself as a spokesman, he is by far the most prominent figure of the EZLN to the public. There are 23 commanders and 1 subcommander which total 24, the collective leadership of the EZLN, one of its unique characteristics, known as the Comite Clandestino Revolucionario Indígena or CCRI, Revolutionary Indigenous Clandestine Committee).

The communiques of 2004 list accomplishments and failures of their movement. From their own point of view, the Councils of Good Government, or Juntas de Buen Gobierno have been successful, as well as efforts to keep the violence between them and the military to a minimum. Their efforts to increase the role of women in cultural and political matters weren't that successful.

From these communiqués it seems Marcos has been following the developments, from wherever he was. He also reiterated their long known opposition to what they see as a worldwide movement towards a neoliberal globalized economy, claiming that the current trend in government policies disempowers the people and establishes a de facto corporate government. The United States war on terror, IMF/World Bank sponsored economic policies, and free trade agreements are seen as an application of these policies.

In October 2004, Subcomandante Marcos issued communiques explaining the problems that the EZLN had with the Mexican government. Some Zapatista communities were expelled from their homes. The EZLN claims that this is an attempt to gain control of an area rich in natural resources (biodiversity and oil). These communities were relocated with great difficulty due to lack of resources, something that the EZLN intended to alleviate by calling for international help. The Mexican government maintains a vague stance on the issue, claiming the people were moved for their own benefit.

However, the relevance of the EZLN to the national political agenda diminished. The Zapatistas claim that this silent period of their uprising has been an extremely rich effort, centered in organizing their own "good government" and lives autonomously; in particular the organization for an autonomous education and healthcare system, with its own schools, hospitals and pharmacies in places neglected by the Mexican government. Recently, with the Sixth Declaration of the Lacandon jungle it seems that the Zapatistas will again enter into the political arena.

There are currently 32 "rebel autonomous zapatista municipalities" (independent Zapatista communities, MAREZ from their name in Spanish) in Chiapas.

[edit]
Controversies
In the late months of 2002, Subcommander Marcos wrote a letter to a Spanish supporter on October 12, the date Columbus arrived to the Americas in 1492, marked by indigenous peoples as the beginning of their suffering. In that long letter, Marcos calls Spanish Judge Baltasar Garzón a "grotesque clown" for, among other things, banning Batasuna, an independent Basque party on claims it was supporting Spanish terrorist group ETA, and then calling Garzón's attempt to try Chilean General Pinochet for human rights violations against Spanish citizens a "fool-deceiving tale". Marcos also criticized the Spanish monarchy and then Spanish Prime Minister José María Aznar. After the publication of the letter by the Mexican press on November 25th, Marcos and Garzón exchanged many more via the international press, in a not-so-elegant duel of words, which included Marcos' joking acceptance of Garzón's challenge to a debate, betting to reveal his secret identity if he lost against Garzón's commitment to the EZLN cause if he won. The whole incident caused much stir among many of Marcos' supporters. Some were upset about Marcos devoting his time to other causes; others thought the tone of his letters was improper of the official spokesman of the EZLN and finally others interpreted his letters as supporting the ETA.

In February 2003, Marcos wrote yet another letter, this time condemning the congressmen of the only party that supported, to some degree, the zapatistas, the Party of the Democratic Revolution, claiming they agreed to approve a modified version of the EZLN-sanctioned COCOPA Law the previous year. That letter and the replies that followed left many of EZLN's strongest and most influential allies ill disposed toward Marcos. It was not a surprising move, however, since the PRD (Party of the Democratic Revolution) had dismissed the San Andres Accords

Aside from criticism of political actors, Marcos described EZLN's ongoing work in its zones of influence, and changes in its internal organization.

[edit]
Political initiatives
Since December 1994, the Zapatistas had been gradually forming several autonomous municipalities, independent of the Mexican government. By August 2003 these municipalities had evolved into local government "juntas", implementing communitarian food-producing programs, health and school systems, supported in part by NGOs. Then several "Juntas of Good Government" formed by representatives of the autonomous municipalities and overseen by the EZLN were created as an upper level of government under the motto mandar obedeciendo (to command obeying). These renegade municipalities had been tolerated by the government despite being a state within the state. Although they do not tax the inhabitants, the zapatistas decide, through assemblies, to work in communitarian projects; when someone does not participate in these communitarian efforts it is discussed and sometimes it is decided to not consider the person a Zapatista. This for example implies that the person has to pay for medicine in zapatista pharmacies (although not for medical care). Membership in the Juntas rotates continuously, so that all members of the community have an opportunity to serve the community and also to prevent people in power to become addicted to it or become corrupted.

[edit]
Communications
The EZLN placed since the beginning a very high priority on communication with the rest of Mexico and the rest of the world. Subcommander Marcos writings (almost the only ones) were initially in plain prose, with references to indigenous cultures and influenced by their style. These declarations and analysis were sent to national and international media. They also made excellent use of technology, in the form of satellite phones and the Internet to communicate with supporters in other countries, helping them gain international solidarity and support from other organizations and people. For some time, on almost every trip abroad the president of Mexico was confronted by small activist groups about "the Chiapas situation".

Their public spokesperson is Subcommander Marcos, a pipe-smoking middle-aged man whose real identity, according to the Mexican government, is Rafael Guillén, a middle-class university lecturer. Marcos himself denies this, but keeps his identity secret. His skin tone is paler than that of the average Mexican. He is clearly not indigenous, something his critics use to question his goals and motives. Marcos has been recognized by many as an outstanding and eloquent communicator; his writings, colloquial, ironic, and with references to indigenous stories were eagerly published by the media in the first years. However, after 2001 a long period of silence brought his relationship with the media to a standstill. In 2002 he began writing again, but this time his style was different and his declaration more aggressive, even against former allies.

By 2004 the EZLN's communication strategy was not clear. Except for isolated letters and "comunicados" about the political climate, mostly criticism, the EZLN had been silent for almost three years, and the media (except "La Jornada" newspaper) stopped covering them as there was no public interest.

For the first half of 2004, Marcos remained silent. By the middle of the year Luis H. Álvarez, Head of COCOPA, the official communication link between the EZLN and the Mexican government, declared Marcos hasn't been seen in Chiapas for some time, and that he didn't know his location. However the EZLN was still active, mostly tending the local governments it has created.

In August 2004, Marcos sent to the Mexican press eight brief communiques, the whole set titled "Reading a video", published from August 20 to August 28. They were probably intended as a mocking of the political video scandals earlier in the year, the set beginning and ending as a kind of written description of an imaginary low-budget zapatista video, the rest being Marcos' comments on political events of the year and the EZLN current stance and development. The communiques went mostly unnoticed, partly because of the Olympic Games of Athens 2004 and the Congress reforms to the IMSS pension system, and partly because of loss of interest by the public.

In 2005 Marcos made headlines again by comparing Andrés Manuel López Obrador with Carlos Salinas de Gortari (as part of a broad criticism to the three main political parties in Mexico the PAN, PRI and PRD) and publicly declaring the EZLN in "Red Alert". Shortly communiques announced that the EZLN had undergone a restructuring that enabled them to withstand the loss of their public leadership (Marcos and the CCRI). A consultation with the zapatistas support base led to the Sixth Declaration of the Lacandon Jungle.

[edit]
Ideology
The EZLN represents the rights of the indigenous population, but also sees itself and is seen as part of a wider anti-capitalist movement. The neozapatistas oppose globalization, or neoliberalism, the economic system advocated by the Mexican presidents from 1982 to 2000. The North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), is an example of neoliberal policy, and spawned the 1994 Zapatista revolution because those who would later become the EZLN believed that it would destroy the rights of Mexico's impoverished indigenous community. The group takes its name from the Mexican revolutionary Emiliano Zapata; they see themselves as his ideological heirs, and heirs to 500 years of indigenous resistance against imperialism.

The EZLN differs from most revolutionary groups by having stopped military action after the initial uprising in the first two weeks of 1994. They never attempted their announced campaign against the capital, in fact they didn't leave the jungle, but in any case they were no match for the Mexican army. They organized a nationwide vote in which the general public chose to stop armed confrontation and continue through peaceful means as their course of action. They say these channels have been ineffective for the indigenous and for everyone else for too much time (500 years, as they say), thus the EZLN motto: ¡Ya Basta! ("Enough!"). This stance weakened after the electoral victory of Vicente Fox Quesada, who peacefully assumed the presidency as the first president from the opposition in 72 years. However, they have not participated in elections and now propose a non-electoral political front.

Only once, EZLN representatives have publicly visited (unarmed) Mexico City, marching down the streets, doing press conferences and organizing meetings with the civilian population and some political parties. This great march to Mexico City, described in a different part of this article, was also relatively peaceful, with some minor, mostly verbal, incidents. This peaceful approach is one of the reasons for its longevity and some popularity with the civilian population.

The EZLN has been mainly fighting for autonomy of the indigenous population as a solution to poverty ; they promote a kind of state within a state where peoples can retain their ways of government and communal way of life yet receive outside support in needed areas. Many leftist groups have attempted to "adopt" the Zapatistas by portraying them as Trotskyists, Anarchists, Socialists, etc., when in actuality, the Zapatista ideology of autonomy is unique..

[edit]
Recent and current activities
On June 28, 2005 the EZLN released an installment of what it called the Sixth Declaration of the Lacandon Jungle. According to the communique, the EZLN has reflected on its history and decided that it must make changes in order to continue its struggle. Accordingly, the EZLN has decided to unite with the "workers, farmers, students, teachers, and employees... the workers of the city and the countryside." They propose to do so through a non-electoral front to talk and collectively write a new constitution to establish a new political culture.

On January 1, 2006 the EZLN began a massive tour - "The Other Campaign" - encompassing all 31 Mexican states in the build up to the year's democratic presidential election, which the EZLN have made clear they will not participate directly in. They will be touring the 31 states without arms.

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 6:46 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

"(translation from Spanish)You are in Zapatista rebel territory. Here the people give the orders and the government obeys."

See, Piratenews? These red communist star folks believe EXACTLY as you do. The PEOPLE, and not the mafia-jew-illuminati-gangsta government should be in charge.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 7:05 AM

Quote:

"Only terrorists and criminals wear masks! And cowards! Patriotic Americans don't wear masks!"

Right, they just dress up like Native Americans and dump tea into the harbor.

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 7:12 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by jmb9039:
Quote:

"Only terrorists and criminals wear masks! And cowards! Patriotic Americans don't wear masks!"

Right, they just dress up like Native Americans and dump tea into the harbor.

Well, to be fair, those were the terrorists of their age. We're a country founded by terrorists.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 7:35 AM

Yes, how quickly we forget...

It is interesting how closely related the idea of Patriot and Terrorist are to each other... one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

and before any of you crazy righties get all huffy - I'm not supporting terrorists or violence, so Rummy and you yahoos scanning the net - keep your mits outta my house!

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 11:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Compared the our REAL problems, the Spanish anthem is a non-issue.

And what could be more important than a Spanish anthem? you might ask. How about this?

Quote:
U.S. has second worst newborn death rate in modern world, report says
The United States has the second worst newborn mortality rate in the developed world, according to a new report.... Only Latvia with six deaths per 1,000 live births, has a higher death rate for newborns than the United States, which is tied near the bottom of industrialized nations with Hungary, Malta, Poland and Slovakia with five deaths per 1,000 births.

Or how about THIS?

Quote:
Suicide bombing kills at least 17 in Tal Afar BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A suicide car bomb killed at least 17 people and wounded 35 others Tuesday in the northern Iraqi city of Tal Afar, Iraqi police officials said.

It's just a hot-button issue that distract from the real problems. I personally am not going to waste any more time thinking about it!

---------------------------------
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 11:44 AM

CITIZEN

"unit Two-Alpha-Niner confirm, target is complete?"
"Roger that, target is complete the locale, moving now."
*Shooting gunfire and muffled screams*
"This is Two-Alpha-Niner to control, we have Tango, repeat jmb9039 is controlled."
"Copy that, jmb9039 is controlled, secure for transport to Alpha site for re-education..."

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 12:33 PM

Crap! I knew they'd get me!

Where's Wash and Mal with a fancy rescue when you need 'em!

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 1:32 PM

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by jmb9039:
Quote:

"Only terrorists and criminals wear masks! And cowards! Patriotic Americans don't wear masks!"

Right, they just dress up like Native Americans and dump tea into the harbor.

Not tea - HEROIN. This is a propaganda myth perped by the pathological liars in Gangsta Govt and the Media Mafia, to protect the British Royal Crime Family and the Bush Crime Family and the Kerry/Kohn/Heinz Crime Family, that has monopolized the opium industry for 100s of years, via Russell Trust, owner of Skull & Bones, aka British East India Company.

Col Paul Revere led the Boston "Tea" Party, aka the Boston Opium Party.

The truth of this fact of history - that the British Empire was planning to use opium as a Weapon of Mass Addiction to defeat the slave revolt in its slave colony - is published by the historical society in Boston, on the public plaque overlooking the Boston harbour.

That's why NAFTA merged USA with Mexico and Canada, which is a member of the 53-nation British Commonwealth, owned by the German Queen of England. NAFTA and United Nations Corporation illegally order elimination of US borders, to allow free trade of opium, cocaine and sex slaves. USA has now officially lost the US Revolutionary Wars. The British Empire is now replaced by the "Jewish" Rothschild New World Order shadow dictatorship slave plantation. The King of England, Prince Philip, is related by marriage to the "Jewish" Rothschilds and their $300-Trillion family fortune.

Quote:
Zapatista Army of National Liberation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from EZLN)

Sounds like Bush Gang's Zapata Oil, which used its offshore drilling platforms for bypassing US Customs for cocaine and heroin shipments for CIA, before, during and after Iran-Contra. Operation Zapata was Bush's name for the CIA's Bay of Pigs invasion.

Commie Red Star

EZLN sounds like Atzlan. It's probably founded and controlled by the Mexican Gangsta Govt to help justify its police state, which is a common tactic by all major govts. British Empire founded Communism, when Jew Karl Marx wrote the Commie Manifesto in London England. The US military armed North Vietnam continuously since 1945 and throught the 30-year Wietnam Wars, perped terror attacks against North Vietnamese Catholics to drive them into South Vietnam, then provided transportation of 2-million North Vietnamese into south Vietnam, to displace the citizens of South Vietnam and create the impoversished Viet Cong ("Peasants"). Just like the Roman Empire locked 20,000 slaves in the flooded Colluseum with orders to fight to the death in mock navy battles. It's theatre.

"Al Quida" (Al CIA Duh) is defined as the CIA's "Database" of its CIA employees in Afghanistan, which farms 90% of the British Empire's supply of opium. Jr Bush promoted a Sir Knight of the British Empire to president of Afghanistan.

Any group that truly wants to overthrow a corrupt Gangsta Govt will wear normal clothes as "undercover disguise", and infiltrate govt via local elections. You don't wear bandanas and carry AK-47s unless the plan is sheep-dipping for incarceration as a patsy.

The "armed uprising" cannot succeed until the local sheriff and police force are under control, then you use their weapons to enforce your law.

This is how the USA was infiltraited, defeated and replaced by Gangsta Govt. It works like a charm.

Forget the lies of our oppressive Kaballistic Allied Governments.
-Huckster, The Message

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 6:20 PM