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Originally posted by SonofMan:
i know this thread has been dorment for awhile..but when i saw it i just had to respond. Has anywhere here even read the Bible? in its entirety?

and im directing this mostly to the thread starter...since he brings up Sitchin and his annunnaki stories. please understand, the reason the sumerians stories pre-date the bibles IS NOT because the bible stole, watered down and misinterpreted the ancient beliefs.

the bible is simply told from a different vantage point, in that it is God, the energy force beyond space and time, the creator of the universe, and his contacts with the early patriarchs. when we
"fell" from our original intent, we became susceptable to false truths and diceptive "knowledge"..which was given to us by the rebellious beings created before man: the annunnaki. ever wonder why, despite the acclaimed "break-throughs" in science, and all this supposed knowledge that humans have now, and yet...the most basic, fundemental issues of our race, greed, bigotry, murder, diception, war...have been with us since the beginning??? what progress are all you scientists really flaunting out there?? and i doubt that the annunnaki, who came to enslave us...have the spiritual answeres we;re looking for. maybe if the world wasnt so anti-christian, maybe we;d be farther along

the annunaki that you are refferring to, can without a doubt be reconciled with the fallen angles of Genesis 6. they were Gods original creations, who rebelled, along with Lucifer, against God and subsequently intervened in Mans progress on earth. which is the purpose of Jesus, and the coming revelations of mankinds redemption from its fall. its quite obvious to be honost...if you read the referces in the bible to the heavenly hosts, who left their domain, to forsake God and ultimately corrupt humanity from reaching its pre=fall potential. there is noo doubt they are one and the same

what is more likely?? that the God of creation caused the flood to wipe out humanity, due to corruption, degeneration, and all the other immoral actions taken place during that time(thanks to the knowledge from the annunaki). or that the flood was cause.. as Sitchin claims...on the part of the annunnaki due to excessive human noisiness?? of course their are similarities between the bible and the sumerian cuniform...the sumerians worshipped idols, and created things(gods..with a small G), wheres Abraham and the isrealis (tried) to worship the creator God...who we would have no contact, or relationship with-without an intervention on his part(the patriarchs..Jesus??)

i especially love when people say that religion is the cause for all the worlds ills. if we are merely evolved species, why do we have a conscience at all?? i consider the 10 commandments to be essentially our basic conscience...not coincidentally, and its hard to image early man making peace without an idealogy that is flawless from the beginning. but to be clear..no holy person, would be envolved in a holy war..its contradictory. so the wars were not started under benevolent circumstances. and secondly...islam, catholicism, judiasm..those are religions, but christianity is not. it is a state of mind that requires almost NO inherent structural traditions; which is why many christians are accused of being hypocrites, because a true christian follows the way of Jesus..but someone can easily cliam to be christian in word, but be an evil person in deed. when you accept the word of Jesus, you change from the inside out...Bush can claim hes a christian, but his actions dont verify his position. if there were no religion, what standards would man have to conform his behavior too?? i know you athiests would rather not have restrictions in your lives..no consequences for immorality or other sins..but your conscience might disagree, and when you die youll be expected to account for your actions, so be aware

but where would we be without Moses 10 commandments, and the fullfillment of the LAW through Jesus? this was the reason God, the creator, chose Abraham do be his covenant people, so that man might know what his true relationship with the creator was..in which he would re-introduce humanity to its eithical and affirming lifestyle as was intended by God. the annunaki, and their leader, perverted humanity..thats all there is too it, and its quite evident through ancient cultures

the reason the world is this way is simple. the Bible says specifically, that this is Satans age, that he is the spiritual ruler of this world, and that he is the father of lies, and when he speaks deception, he speaks his native tongue. any ideals anti-christian in nature benefit him! which is why it is neccessary to accept the testimony of Jesus, and to follow his idealogies...because as we have seen, Man, natural insticts.. have created the turmoil in this world. how can you say Christians are partly responsible for the condition of things, when this world is directly opposed to the beliefs of Jesus?? it is not taught in our schools, it is laughed at in universities, it takes no precedent in politics..more accurately, it is man following his own desires which is responsible for our current state of affairs

and i personaly believe there is something to the 2012 date, because their are ultimately 2 sources of belief in this world(not counting athiesm, because its a joke). there is the knowledge that was given to us through Satan, and the fallen angels(annunaki) when they came to earth in the very beginning(hence why they have the oldest known civilazation), and beliefs based on Abrahams teaching of the creator God. if youve ever read the book of Enoch, Jubilees, or even Jasher...they explain in detail how it is that the annunnaki convinced early man why they were their creators. if youve read the Bible, youd understand that they are decieving humanity, to fullfill the end goal of the antichrist. that is the incentive for the annunnaki to deny a creator, and to claim to be our true progenitors. but that would be a LIE, or the LIE that the bible prophecies to take place at the end of the age

and if you want evidence for this, good the NWO conspiracy. is it a coincidence that their is a shadow agenda taking place in the world to create a fascist, one world government police state, where everyone is tracked and monitored, and must recieve a mark before buying or selling?? i dont see the annunnaki warning us of this...because they, and the elite occultists who do their bidding, are working on behalf of the anti-christ, intentionally or in-directly. if you look into the alien, ET roswell conspiracies..and their contact with elite government officials..is it a coincidence that the "aliens" support a one world government? or that they would give us techonology that ultimately helps to enslave mankind?? i think not..but these aliens, are one and the same as the fallen angels, and the annunnaki...all signs point to the same thing.

and revelation predicts their return, during a time called the apostasy, or the falling away of the church. and my guess is this diception that you have been taken by, will be an active religious componant of what is to become the mark of the beast, or this one world government, one world religion, one world economy. that is proof enough IMO of the bible accuracy, i see nothing else that has made predictions to this extent, especially which are unfolding as we speak

and PS..christians dont believe that we are nearing "the end" of time. we know that Jesus resurrection begins his earthly kingdom, and the dawn of a new age..but first this age, Satans age..must come to pass. what is happening now is an attempt to seize the dawning of this new age, but Satan WILL FAIL!





"i am the Alpha and the Omega..who is, who was, and who is to come, the Almighty"
-Jesus Christ Rev.1:8

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Originally posted by Misstressahara:
*ouch* Jenny, harsh. Listen if you two are so hard core I suggest you go into your respective corners and fight it out. Winner fights Citizen.

BTW hon, no need to insult. It's one thing to have an opinion but to insult the entire Christian faith. Hey, you didn't like it when you thought Citizen insulted you. How's about some tolerance here. Or do the Summarians not know that word.

BTW, this....
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If you were really interested in the truth about your religion you would stop trying to spin it to make it fit your world view or whatever. The Christian religion is already so full of holes its enough to make a persons head spin, but I'm not going to tell you what to believe or not to believe, but the truth is the truth and no amount of spin is going to change that!!

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You just contradicted yourself darlin. You won't tell us what to believe in but it's wrong so we shouldn't believe in it..... *whoosh* Honey your spinning your own stuff....

Guesse that means your coming after me next. Well and away, have to and all that. *smoochies* if it means anything to you.


If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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are not the sumerian text the equivelant to the bible in that they rely on first hand accounts and eye witness testimony

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and my opinion regarding catholics and jews being religions, is that the Jewish high priests were continually rebuffed my Jesus by being hyprocrital towards their interpretation of the Law. i dont claim to be a bible scholar, as the rest of you in here, but was not the purpose of Jesus coming to fullfill the Law by introducing the holy spirit? it seems to me that a lot of religions instutionalize certain ceremonies, and in that why, become idolatrous towards God. that is just a theory i am considering..is it FACT NO. but is it worth considering..yes. thats not to say that christianity today is perfect either, i never claimed that..i think we;ve become in-grained wtih pagan and occultic influences that we may not even be aware of.

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but Jesus did claim that the only way to the father was through him, did he not? if it wasnt neccessary for Jesus to sacrifice himself for our sins, nor even believe in him, than why would God do it??

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christians have no religion without Jesus being the son of God, God incarnate, and his ressurection...that should be the point of that. im no bible expert, but i dont think you guys can claim to be either. everyone should look into things themselves, regardless of what other say...which was my intention in commenting on Zacharia Sitchin. so enough already, lets here you experts out there rebuff some other beliefs while your at it!

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if we were all perfect, then we wouldnt need Jesus..so rather than attacking me, how about some constructive criticism.

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:
Just Curious,
Where can I find Semmerian texts to check out?

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...Other considerations that weigh in against Stichin's claims:

1) Life requires external energy to operate. In our case its the Sun. It provides fuel for plants which provide fuel for other critters (including us). While 470 A.U.s may be cosmological chicken feed in terms of distance, it does render the Sun a negligible energy source for fueling life on Planet X at aphelion. In fact, ALL external energy sources in our galactic neighborhood are chicken feed at that distance. You can postulate that this Intelligence on Planet X developed their own energy sources... but that just begs the argument "where did the energy to sustain them come from before they got smart enough to scavenge it on their own?" You can't just say "Well there must have been something else at the start because they exist now!" That's something of a circular argument... impossible to refute, contributing no information, hence useless..

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Originally posted by SonofMan:
i understand the origins of the sumerian texts, i have not read all them per se, so i cannot comment outside of what i do know, but i am fully aware they pre-date the bible, and im vaguely aware of the general similarities. i wasnt always christian, and i didnt always believe the Bibles take



i wouldnt claim that christianity is full of holes though... there are false practices and dis- and mis-information, certainly, which could have happened over time, if you believe that this world has been under control of the rebellious forces from the beginning. but at the same time its hard to imagine a fairy tale being acknowledge 2000+ years later, if there were no evidence of any accuracies.. i mean does not history have a way of weeding out the truth from the fancifull? there are a lot of scriptures that werent involved in the canon, which serve as additional sources, such as the book of Enoch and Jubilees, which describe essentially the same thing as Sitchin, but again from a more divine Biblical perspective..like Enoch for example, besides that some claim him being involved in the developement of the sphinx(i dont know the hole story though specifically), but it talks about the names and the knowledge of these fallen beings, and the influence they had on "Adams" ancestors.(whether created by the annunnaki or God).

i will say though that certainly every person is responsible for their own actions, or sins, the bible never contradicts that. it simply gives explanations as to how sin entered the world, what its purpose is, and so on...but i wont bother with that aspect..i just want to say that the bible doesnt allow believers a free pass on sin, ints not as if we plead "the devil made me do it!" therefore become guiltless..but we acknowledge the mystery of lawlessness in the world

only i dont see how the first hand accounts of matthew, mark, and luke(or john, i forget) become discounted, or the thousands of eye witnesses to Jesus miracles, or even the witnesses to his alleged ressurrection. if we wanted to assume that the claims by the sumerians are correct, i dont know for sure whether the belief in the annunnaki automatically refutes Jesus' legacy. the Bible would claim that the annunnaki were created things, they were present at the creation of man.. whether they want to claim for themselves the work or not, thats debatable..but i think there are enough similarites to suggest that there is a power struggle occuring, and not between enki and enlil, but between both of them and the creator.

if their were a God of creation, which was to manifest itself in the form of a man, would that oppose aliens coming from a distant planet to earth? IMO not neccessarily..unless the annunnaki claimed to have evolved...do you know what they claim on that issue? understand im being genuine, im not asking condescendingly...

its definately an interesting subject.. especially since the Bible claims that they will return, as im sure Sitchin claims of the annunnaki. which if thats the case, it is worthwhile to consider the similarities between the two and how they should be associated

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i was aware that Abraham came from that region, which is why i posed that obviously he would be knowledgeable of the culture or beliefs of that time, which he left at the behest of God; that would be our religions beginning. i will have to become more familiar with the sumerian texts once again, but i dont see how they supersede, or discredit or invalidate the Bible, when it clearly chooses a divergent path from previous history. i realize it claims to be the factual origins of the Bible, but its yet to be proven that the Bible is meritless or a complete plagurization(?) when it can be compared to the equivelant of an opposing testimony

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only i dont see how the first hand accounts of matthew, mark, and luke(or john, i forget) become discounted, or the thousands of eye witnesses to Jesus miracles, or even the witnesses to his alleged ressurrection. if we wanted to assume that the claims by the sumerians are correct, i dont know for sure whether the belief in the annunnaki automatically refutes Jesus' legacy. the Bible would claim that the annunnaki were created things, they were present at the creation of man.. whether they want to claim for themselves the work or not, thats debatable..but i think there are enough similarites to suggest that there is a power struggle occuring, and not between enki and enlil, but between both of them and the creator.

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if their were a God of creation, which was to manifest itself in the form of a man, would that oppose aliens coming from a distant planet to earth? IMO not neccessarily..unless the annunnaki claimed to have evolved...do you know what they claim on that issue? understand im being genuine, im not asking condescendingly...

its definately an interesting subject.. especially since the Bible claims that they will return, as Im sure Sitchin claims of the annunnaki. which if thats the case, it is worthwhile to consider the similarities between the two and how they should be associated

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Originally posted by SergeantX:
Is "Pirate" a prefix that means 'batshit insane'?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Originally posted by SergeantX:
Is "Pirate" a prefix that means 'batshit insane'?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Originally posted by SonofMan:
thanks for the comments. there is so much to this entire study that it really goes beyond my personal knowledge..so i will have to look into it further before i am able to debate you productively. but i appreciate your perspective. i definately agree with most of your points, i am still of the belief though that the annunnaki were the fallen angels, and that Yahweh is the creator God manifest..but i surely have taken in what you have said, since in essence it doesnt neccessarily refute what i believe

since im of the believe that the b'nai elohim, or fallen angels, are the annunnaki, i wont dispute any of the events that happened under the early kings. the bible says that God had(has) a council of beings that were their when he made man, so there is definately room for collusion; much like God in the book of Ezekiel riding on the chariot, with his angel..which sounds for all the world like some kind of craft-if the angels were more intelligent, created beings..then IMO anyways, everything you say did in fact occur, since their are good angels that work for God, and bad angels that work for Satan. what the true intentions were of the Annunnaki is maybe what the debate centers around.

i wont argue since you are clearly more familiar with ancient Sumer than myself... i just have yet to establish whether the Bible steals from, contradicts, or truthfully reveals what was found on the tablets, it still seems to me(and what i read from the scholars) that the Bibles account is something of a "re-telling" of the Sumerians accounts, only from what was claimed to be a radically different perspective at the time. it is alleged that it was a clarification of the original myths..but then thats the christian perspective, so i wont debate you on that..since i really dont know for sure.

it appears as though many of the mesopotamian cultures had variations of the basic creation/flood stories..there is a degree of overlap; but while they share similarities, there are inherent differences in certain details that set them apart(like the cause of the flood, whether it was due to noisiness, corruption..and i believe there is another belief..but its been awhile). its hard to say which is the mis-informed, or distorted rendition, or what...understand that its purely out of my own bias that i choose to continue to support the claimed take of Yahweh..i tend to adapt information i find rather then completely re-structure my beliefs. i can understand why the Sumerian accounts would hold pre-eminence since they pre-date the Bible..my hold-up is Genesis tells that these early beings rebelled against God and helped to corrupt man, so im more or less questioning the credibility of the motives of Annunnaki, not your own research.

i apologize this isnt much of a rebuttal, i dont want to rehash, or beat a dead horse..it sounds like you are familiar enough with the Bible for me to avoid making totally repetitive statements; plus i agree that the annunnaki did exist, only that their intervention was nefarious

one bit of "evidence"(although circumstantial and anecdotel) that i choose to consider is the collection of conspiracy theorist data regarding a NWO. to me it seems, the Annunnaki, and their knowledge, form the bases of the occult beleifs that underly the secret societies such as the Thule society, the Skull and Bones, the Scottish Rite, and the illuminati-which i believe to be vying for world dominance. if the conspiracy theoriests are correct, its curious that the agenda is for a New World Order, when this essentially constitutes the system of the beast that the anti-christ reigns over. now UFOlogy also says that "aliens" support a one world government, and that they have engaged in technology transfers in exchange for a hybrid program or something...and that they are negotiating with the elite. now this seems a bit far-fetched, but if i am to include it.. if aliens are the annunnaki(and the fallen angels), then there seems to be an agenda forming that places lucipher, the fallen angels, the elite(government, corporations, media) at the top of the pyramid of knowledge, followed by us at the base. it fits together neatly...whether its accurate or not is still to be determined, but ive fused them all together for the sake of my own current world view

but i will look into all further, realize that i appreciate the information...i apologize for the rambling on my part, i just didnt entirely reject anything you said..well, except maybe Jesus' false death and bloodline..but thats something seperate. any how, ill let you know if i find anything controversial to add, otherwise, thanks friend but i still must agree to disagree

And Abram said unto himself 'Surely these are not gods (Enki and Enlil) that made the earth and all mankind, but these are the servants of Yahweh! Book of Jasher Chapter IX: 19.
http://www.logoschristian.org/yahweh.html

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but ive taken into consideration a lot of what your saying. for example, is it possible that Michael, the archangel of the Bible, was Enlil? im just curious, since it is him who casts Satan down to earth in Revelations.. on that spritual plane..their was a moral debate among the angels, or Annunaki, about their creation, as they say. is that fair to say? their are many references about angels, who left their domain, who will be resurrected for the judgement day. in Daniel, it says that Gabriel the archangel was resisted by the "prince" or angel of Persia, from delivering the message regarding persia and the end of the age; Michael actually had to come to his aid, but this is an example of competing factions within their realm.

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what im wondering is what does the Bible actually mean is happening in the garden of Eden, you know before the deception? the Annunaki claim to have engineered us from pre-existent earthly bi-peds is that right? im wondering, because according to the Bible, Man existed as something before we "fell", and according to Paul, sin entered the world through Adam, and death through sin, so death became a curse on earth; if im not mistaken

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anyways i found this site - http://www.biblestudygames.com/biblestudies/gardenofeden.htm - which claims that Satan actually deceived Eve and slept with her, and subsequently became the father of Cain, Satans bloodline. and then the fallen angels later, of genesis 6, interbred aswell with daughters of Men, and had offspring called the Nephilim(fallen ones), which was an attitional attempt at subverting Mans potential, and then preventing the bloodline that would create Jesus. if Jesus exists, then the fact that we need to be redeemed suggests that we had existed possibly in a different state pre-fall, or pre-deception. thats whats soo curious..

is it possible for us to reconcile the two stories? if not, tell me what specifically..and maybe we can work it out.

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Now, if i am to believe the testimony of Jesus(God himself, incarnate), then he was the fullfillment of the Law through his descendents. Jesus fullfilled Old Testament, Jewish prophecy...so we have Jesus' testimony that the accounts are sufficiently accurate and verified. Noahs descendents chose to dis-associate themselves with the culture that was bred out of Lumeria and Sumer(or whatever pre-flood empires), and then later the Babylonians and Persians, and every other belief that wasnt centered on the creators life-force. the divergence in beliefs didnt occur due to loose mis-interpretations and in-grained fabricated myths...there was an actual seperation of realitie.

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the idea of monotheism, of one God that was the creator of everything, including the Annunaki and their planet Nubiru, is pretty exclusive to the Abrahamic religions.

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the early cultures or civilizations, way before Judiasm and the isrealites had any prominance, although intelligent, were corrupt, degradive and morally lost people; we're talking human sacrifices, sodomy, and even beastiality! the claim that Judeo-Christianity are the root of spiritual repression is a false premice, when Man, from the get-go, after gaining knowledge of Evil*, was again later decieved by the Watchers, the early influences of human culture. now youll admit that the Annunaki made slaves of us-well that wasnt our original destiny. and i think the Annunaki, since as the book of Enoch(the 7th patriarch from Adam), and the books of Jubilee, among the others of the OT state, they had a motive to claim universal sovereighnty, since 2/3 of them officially chose to rebel from God.

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the early cultures or civilizations, way before Judiasm and the isrealites had any prominance, although intelligent, were corrupt, degradive and morally lost people;

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if the Bible was meant to suppress people, if that was its original intent, then they sure did a horrible job of it! why in the heck would they create a standard, as you said, that sets a persons hopes beyond this physical world? if the religion and the Bible were the culprit behind this global conspiracy, why are christians(true christians), constantly the ones opposed to the establishment NWO agenda? wouldnt there be unquestioned bias towards the Gospils, rather then a secular heirarchy intent on discrediting Christianitys foundations?? the Bible speaks of gentiles, and it speaks of Jews who are "of the synogogue of Satan"..which among people who are indifferent to God and Jesus, there are people actively promoting and fullfilling the role of the anti-christ. when i see the current state of global politics and human consciousness, im not seeing people in the image of Jesus at the reigns of control; frankly im seeing neo-pagan and occultic inbred degenerateness(not to be accusatory)

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if Christians are shown to be irresponsible, as anyone can be, it is due to a lack of understanding of the scriptures, or ignorance..not out of flawed fundementals.

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if there was no afterlife, we just lived and died, what responsibilities would people undertake? if we die physically, but our soul transcends, and no authorative God exists, then what incentive do we have to progress spiritualy, or act morally, if judgement and reprocussions didnt exist?

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i know why true Christians dont commit horrendous sins, since they are to be God fearing. what would prevent someone otherwise?? some would claim Man created "religion" for this purpose..i say God designed us with the ability to know better, and our test in life is to prove it.

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