I told you so by rue

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

This is just a chance for everyone to try to get acknowledgement for 'being right'.

My entry:

There were no WMDs.

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Thursday, June 22, 2006 3:19 PM

Okay, I'll play -

My entry:

I told you there was going to be a civil war the minute we "won."

------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Thursday, June 22, 2006 5:04 PM

I told you we went into Iraq just so Dubya could one-up his daddy...

Chrisisall

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Thursday, June 22, 2006 9:07 PM

KHYRON

I told you democracy wouldn't spread like wildfire in the middle-east.

Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 12:27 AM

Bush (singing):
Well I know, I know the answers,
And you think you also do.
Why I say one plus one is eleven,
You think one plus one is two.
Well I've got some information,
And I just love that this is true -
I've got all the right answers,
And you haven't got a clue.

I was right and you were wrong,
I'm going to sing the I was right song.
I was right and you were wrong,
I'm going to sing the I was right song.
I was right and you were wrong,
I'm going to sing the I was right song.
I was right and you were wrong,
I sing it once again.

You got all the wrong directions.
You don't know where you're going to.
You head South for Iraq?
Have you perchance got a map?
Well, I got something to tell you -
There's a fact that you misconstrue,
I say WMD's in Iraq,
You think they live in the silo.

I was right and you were wrong,
I'm going to sing the I was right song.
I was right and you were wrong,
I'm going to sing the I was right song.
I was right and you were wrong,
I'm going to sing the I was right song.
I was right and you were wrong,
Na-Na-Na-Na-Na-Naaaa

Hold everything, there's a news flash from the CIA,
Why a correction is coming through -
It's some brand new information,
It seems like one and one is two !
You head South for Iraq.
And there's something else that's true -
I was wrong about the weapons too,
Iraq has no WMD.

So I got a small revision,
To the things that I've just said -
Well it seems the yarns I've been spinning,
Are kinda hanging by a thread.
I was wrong and you were right,
And now my face ain't nothing but red.
There's some words that you get to sing now,
And I hope they don't go to your head.

RUE (Singing):
I was right and you were wrong,
I'm going to sing the I was right song.
I was right and you were wrong,
I'm going to sing the I was right song.
I was right and you were wrong,
I'm going to sing the I was right song.
I was right and you were wrong,
Na-Na-Na-Na-Na-Naaaa

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 4:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
My entry:

There were no WMD.

Except the huge stockpile of chemical weapons they found but didn't tell us about...seems I might have mentioned that possibility some time ago or in layman's terms...I told you so.

Although some people have wondered why they never told us about them. Perhaps they were allowing the Wrongocrats to dig themselves into a really deep hole. I mentioned early on that it was notable that while many Cowardacrats like Kerry were shouting no WMD's from the rooftops, none of the Democrats on the House or Senate Intellegence Committees were joining that parade. I told you so.

And then there is today's shocking revelation that the US is monitoring global financial transactions. Seems someone, the President I believe, told us about that back in 2002. Duh, global war on terror but we can't listen in on the enemy, or track their money, or interrogate prisoners, or wage military operations of any kind, or do anything that might make the country safe from attack, or take any preemptive step towards preventing attacks...thats the Democrat's war plan: bend over, take it up the A** and blame Republicans for making it worse by fighting back...in other words Democrats, the Prison Bitch Party. Told you that too.

Personal Note: The funeral was very sad, and quite moving. He was a cop and a soldier, so the cerimony was the best of both with the local vets and even the firemen coming out. I teared up but didn't cry till one of our senior patrolmen ended by signing him off shift...forever. Then we went drinking which is always nice.

H

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Friday, June 23, 2006 4:34 AM

Thought the President might want a crack at this topic:

Quote:

But some governments will be timid in the face of terror. And make no mistake about it: If they do not act, America will. (Applause.)

North Korea is a regime arming with missiles and weapons of mass destruction, while starving its citizens.

Iran aggressively pursues these weapons and exports terror, while an unelected few repress the Iranian people's hope for freedom.

In any of these cases, the price of indifference would be catastrophic.

We will develop and deploy effective missile defenses to protect America and our allies from sudden attack. (Applause.) And all nations should know: America will do what is necessary to ensure our nation's security.

Our war on terror is well begun, but it is only begun. This campaign may not be finished on our watch -- yet it must be and it will be waged on our watch.

We have no intention of imposing our culture. But America will always stand firm for the non-negotiable demands of human dignity: the rule of law; limits on the power of the state; respect for women; private property; free speech; equal justice; and religious tolerance. (Applause.)

And for the NY Times and their banking surveilance from the 2001 Address to Congress after 9/11:

Quote:

It may include dramatic strikes, visible on TV, and covert operations, secret even in success. We will starve terrorists of funding...

Can't starve them of funding if you don't monitor their accounts and the accounts channeling them funds. And covert operations secret even in success may not be as successfull if they are not secret.

H

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Friday, June 23, 2006 5:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Except the huge stockpile of chemical weapons they found but didn't tell us about...seems I might have mentioned that possibility some time ago or in layman's terms...I told you so.

Excuse me? Where are these magic weapons at? Do you have any evidence that they've found weapons they aren't telling us about yet? And if there were, you'd think they'd shout it from the rooftops to prove they were right.

And if you mean the ones that were "just revealed" by - who was it, Santorum?- yesterday, the DDept. came right out behind him and said they weaps they found were pre-1991 shells that were so degraded they were inoperable.

For the record, Hero, you only get to say "I told you so" if you are actually right. You aren't.

------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 5:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
Excuse me? Where are these magic weapons at? Do you have any evidence that they've found weapons they aren't telling us about yet? And if there were, you'd think they'd shout it from the rooftops to prove they were right.

I can think of many reasons to keep it a secret. Reason 1, it wasn't a secret. The media reported these finds years ago during and after the invasion. The reports were limited and only mentioned a few shells, no follow up stories because the Pentagon clamped down on the info. Reason 2, lets say they found 500 shells but Joe Iraqi sitting in Syria says... 'hey, we had 1,237 shells in 5 different locations and I know where location number 4 is and I wonder if I can make some money by telling that bearded guy over there who's recruiting Syrians to go Jihad'in in Iraq next weekend.' The reasons go on from there becoming more and more obvious. My favorite is political. 'Oops, turns out the lynchpin of Democratic anti-war sentiment for the last 3 and a half years aint so...poor Demorcrats, so wrong on so many things guess ya'll are gonna all vote Republican this November...again.'

Quote:

And if you mean the ones that were "just revealed" by - who was it, Santorum?- yesterday, the DDept. came right out behind him and said they weaps they found were pre-1991 shells that were so degraded they were inoperable.

Tell you what. Lets put you and your family in a room with a pre-1991 Soviet-made 155mm artillery shell filled with Sarin gas. Now would you be willing to take a hammer and hit the shell on the nose ala Bugs Bunny, I think not.

I suspect that while age likely renders many of the shells inoperable...as artillery shells fired from a howitzer and such, it hardly renders them inert. And maybe gas is less effective, so instead of killing everyone within 500 meters in 15 seconds it only kills everyone within 50 meters and it takes a full minute for them to die.

Quote:

For the record, Hero, you only get to say "I told you so" if you are actually right. You aren't.

I told you so. Sayin otherwise don't make it less true.

H

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Friday, June 23, 2006 6:29 AM

So let me get this straight - The government is keeping massive findings of WMD's a secret so that it can continue to look ridiculous to the American people about its reasons for war (and select people, like you -and probably PN- can go ahead and argue using "evidence" that is invisible....oooooookay). To top that all off, the Republican shills (such as yourself), are now parsing "WMD's" that were supposed to be large amounts of chemical weapons, mobile factories, and possible nuclear devices (because, as Condi said, we wouldn't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud) off as a major find if two spoonfuls of Sarin in a rusty shell are dug up out of the sand.

Quote:
Tell you what. Lets put you and your family in a room with a pre-1991 Soviet-made 155mm artillery shell filled with Sarin gas.

I may not want my family in that room, but seeing as I had family that served in Iraq, I certainly didnt want them out in the desert chasing little pink elephant wmd's that were no threat to us either.

Let's do Hero math.
2500 dead, tens of thousands wounded, civil war in Iraq, Iraqi civilians killed by the thousands, record deficit, no Bin Ladin, Afghanistan in chaos, and deteriorating foreign relations is justified by finding unusable gas made 20 years ago in corroded shells buried in dirt.

There you have it folks, today's GOP.

------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 7:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
Let's do Hero math.
2500 dead, tens of thousands wounded, civil war in Iraq, Iraqi civilians killed by the thousands, record deficit, no Bin Ladin, Afghanistan in chaos, and deteriorating foreign relations is justified by finding unusable gas made 20 years ago in corroded shells buried in dirt.

My math has different values, but overall the formula you describe is correct. For example, Iraqi civil-war is really foriegn sponsered terrorism and a limited Baath'ist domestic insurgency both of which are on their last legs. Chaos is Afganistan is really emerging democracy in a nation that has known not one year of stability or peace in more then a generation.

Now your math is very interesting...you start with the conclusion, Bush lied, and fill in the formula to make reach your pre-determined result. For example, "no WMD's" is in your formula but does not reflect reality, try "some WMD's" and see if you can still reach the destination you've already chosen.

Sure, you doubt the danger posed by the WMDs we found...after all they are old and so very far away. I wonder if you'd feel the same way if they suddenly started turning up in New York City subway stations...I mean they aren't really dangerous, so that would be ok. How bout you let your kid take one to school for show and tell...after all its perfectly safe. And what's the harm of strapping one to the chest of a suicide bomber on a City bus or at a Mets game...I bet you'd not even want the person arrested since its too old to be a weapon.

I think your real problem is Barbara Streisand (BS) Syndrome, a common liberal affliction. Her music sucks, but they spent so many years claiming to be her fans that they cannot now admit that her music sucks, so they are forced to attend her concerts. Liberals have wrapped themselves in the anti-Bush mindset so they cannot accept good economic numbers or positive war news or anything that might inidcate that a good decision was made. The no WMD crowd could be handed a nuclear bomb by Saddam Hussein himself with notarized instructions to deliver it to his best buddy Osama for use in New York City and you'd still not believe it. Then you'd deliver it and wish Bin Ladden luck and whine and complain about Bush's failure to prevent the attack once it happened.

Lets work this out for the Michael Moore folk. If they found WMDs then Bush didn't lie, if Bush didn't lie then the war was justified, if the war was justified then Bush is doing a good job, if Bush is doing a good job then he must be an effective President, if he's an effective President then his other programs are effective as well, if his other programs are effective as well then why the hell would we ever vote for a Democrat ever again? The answer is beause you have a mental disease or defect...at least Ann Coulter thinks so. I just think you've all got your heads up your collective asses, which is also the symbol of the Democratic Party.

H (and so good to be back...)

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Friday, June 23, 2006 8:10 AM

STORYMARK

Wow, Hero. Your bulls#!t sounds more and more desperate all the time.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, June 23, 2006 8:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

My math has different values,

I'm not certain you have any values, but whatever.

Quote:
For example, Iraqi civil-war is really foriegn sponsered terrorism and a limited Baath'ist domestic insurgency both of which are on their last legs.

Interesting. Because the Dept. of Defense said upon Zarqawi's death that foregin sponsored fighting accounted for less than 7-9% of the attacks in Iraq. That leaves 90% to your "limited insurgency," which seems an interesting term for mosque bombings and death squads, the majority of which have been perpetrated by Shi'ites.

Quote:
Chaos is Afganistan is really emerging democracy in a nation that has known not one year of stability or peace in more then a generation.

Emerging democracy. Uh-huh. Taliban warlords have been in open revolt for months, we sponsor the opium trade ourselves to keep the insurgency there from growing, and Karzai himself has said our methods aren't working. I just loooove that rose-colored look your glasses have.

Now your math is very interesting...you start with the conclusion, Bush lied, and fill in the formula to make reach your pre-determined result.

I started with no such conclusion. Every month since no wmd's were found the reason we invaded has changed. But let's assume I hadn't started with that conclusion. Let's take Condi and Colin's words at face value: Mobile weapons labs and a nuke program. Hmmmmm...don't see any. So if I'm told one thing and the facts are the opposite and the goalposts keep shifitng, it's a good conclusion that someone's cheating.

Quote:
For example, "no WMD's" is in your formula but does not reflect reality, try "some WMD's" and see if you can still reach the destination you've already chosen.

Some. Okay, 500 deteriorated mustard gas shells with no effective launch mechanism buried in a location that all but a bare few can even remember. Thinking....thinking....thinking....no, still no justification for a preemptive war with outrageous caualties.

Quote:
Sure, you doubt the danger posed by the WMDs we found...after all they are old and so very far away. I wonder if you'd feel the same way if they suddenly started turning up in New York City subway stations...I mean they aren't really dangerous, so that would be ok. How bout you let your kid take one to school for show and tell...after all its perfectly safe. And what's the harm of strapping one to the chest of a suicide bomber on a City bus or at a Mets game...I bet you'd not even want the person arrested since its too old to be a weapon.

Where to start with your dazzling leaps of logic and fallacies. I hope you don't try cases like this, the defense would rip you apart.

First, because they are far away means they pose absolutely no danger of Iraq being an iminent threat. Therefore, preemptive attack is not justified. I don't see you bandwagoning to attack Korea, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, and 75 other countries who have real terrorist ties and actual weapons to use.

Second, I never said the damn things weren't dangerous, just not a threat. Do I want my daughter playing with one? Of course not. Am I going to keep her home from school because somewhere, someone in the world might be planning an attack with weapons that they may or may not have that may or may not work? No. I suspect that like may in the Yellow Elephant Brigade, you like to live in fear. I might be hit by a bus tomorrow, or be eaten by an escaped zoo tiger. Doesn't mean I stay home from work.

Third, if we took the 9/11 Comission's report seriously, we'd be fighting terror the right way, using the police, FBI, and CIA instead of thinking we can attack a concept by invading a country. I doubt we'd see many canisters turn up in subways then. Again, am I going to stop going to work because someone somewhere may or may not get a canister that may or may not work and use it on my tram? Again, no. I don't live in fear. That's a GOP thing.

Third, anyone who possesses such a device, working or not working, is a criminal and needs to be placed in custody. I'm neither soft on terror or crime, but again, I don't let fear cloud my judgement.

Quote:
Barbara Streisand (BS) Syndrome,

Babs sucks. End of that discussion.

Quote:
Liberals have wrapped themselves in the anti-Bush mindset so they cannot accept good economic numbers or positive war news or anything that might inidcate that a good decision was made.

Show me some. The economy's in the toilet, and the rich want to repeal the only tax that's helpful to the American way of life. I cheered when they got AlZ, then sighed and went back to work when he had an immediate replacement and the bombings didn't even pause.

Quote:
The no WMD crowd could be handed a nuclear bomb by Saddam Hussein himself with notarized instructions to deliver it to his best buddy Osama for use in New York City and you'd still not believe it.

I know this is hard for you to grasp. But really, really try this time. Saddam and Osama were enemies, and AlQ had no ties to Iraq's government. Saddam didn't have a nuclear device. Had he, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because I'd be saying, "the GOP was right and I'm glad we went in." They weren't, I'm not and we are.

Quote:
Then you'd deliver it and wish Bin Ladden luck and whine and complain about Bush's failure to prevent the attack once it happened.

I'd have to know where he was to deliver him a good luck message. Maybe I could ask Bush where he is. I bet he knows...doh! That's right, he doesn't have a clue where the worst terrorist in the world is, he stopped looking for him to invade Iraq!

Quote:
If they found WMDs then Bush didn't lie, if Bush didn't lie then the war was justified, if the war was justified then Bush is doing a good job, if Bush is doing a good job then he must be an effective President, if he's an effective President then his other programs are effective as well, if his other programs are effective as well then why the hell would we ever vote for a Democrat ever again?

Hey, that might be a nice chain. But given the fact that the war isn't the only thing he's managed to fuck up, I don't think your conclusion follows.

Quote:
The answer is beause you have a mental disease or defect...at least Ann Coulter thinks so. I just think you've all got your heads up your collective asses, which is also the symbol of the Democratic Party.

I won't defend Moore if you won't defend Coulter. You know, the woman who thinks Democrats can't be Christians, we need to start beheadings, and that the widows of 9/11 victims are "harpies looking for attention."

------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 8:41 AM

I TOLD you that Hero would never change his tune :biggrin .

Chrisisallyouso

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Friday, June 23, 2006 8:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Cowardacrats like Kerry

Yeah just like Cowardlicans like Bush who get their daddys to buy them out of military service and get so scard about a few terrorists they piss their pants and give up all their freedoms

.

"Oh no after all this time someone attacked us back! Kill them daddy kill them all, we don't care what you have to do whaaa!"
Childish-cowardly-kneejerk-reactionary-licans.

Sorry Hero but there's nothing Brave about dropping bombs on a bunch of nations that have no chance of winning, and nothing cowardly about not wanting to do same, whatever you may think.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 9:17 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Sorry Hero but there's nothing Brave about dropping bombs on a bunch of nations that have no chance of winning, and nothing cowardly about not wanting to do same, whatever you may think.

Tell that to the 2500 American heroes who gave their lives in honorable service to their nation. I wonder how they feel about the handful of cowards and deserters who have refused to go.

H

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Friday, June 23, 2006 9:28 AM

we are there for 1 reason, and 1 reason only: war is profitable

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

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Friday, June 23, 2006 9:29 AM

The troops are the brave ones, the cowards are the one's sitting at home making the decisions to bomb nations into submission well aware that they'll never be hurt by the fallout, and people who call everyone a coward who thinks differently to them.

Your statement is highly amusing, reminds me of the First World War when the people shouting loudest about conscientious objectors being cowards no matter what their reasons for refusing the draft, were the one's who didn't have to go.

I was talking about the people who are so scared of ‘Terrorism’ they’ll become terrorists to protect themselves. Bush ordering the invasion wasn’t brave, there was no chance that him or his would be adversely affected, and there’s bugger all chance then and now that he’ll be harmed politically or physically in any real way.

It’s real easy to be Billy Badass when you’re attacking someone weaker than you, especially when it’s other people who do the fighting.

Yeah real easy to be brave when other people are the ones on the firing line, but you know that already huh ‘Hero’.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 9:36 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN

Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:
Third, anyone who possesses such a device, working or not working, is a criminal and needs to be placed in custody.

I love that movie...lets see:

Hero: SP how would you deal with Osama Bin Ladden?

SP (with an Effeminate Anglish Accent): Like any common thief. Have the local magistrate arrest him and punish him accordingly

Hero: LEAVE US!

(Everyone leaves except Citizen and PirateNews. The latter hides himself in a place to watch. SP is confused, not knowing what to expect. Hero suddenly strikes SP, knocking him to the floor.)

Hero: Bin Ladden has already killed the magistrate and taken control of the town.

I believe our hero's point in this scene is that sometimes you gotta fight. And with liberals its just as good to smack them around as it is to reason with them.

Liberals, always willing to give you the shirt off of someone else's back. Surrendacrats, Cut-and-runners, its all the same. Its never been 'America can't win the war', its 'liberals can't win the war'. I've never met a real liberal who could fight worth a damn. They can whine (and wine), they can complain, they can even partake in non-violent civil dissobiediance...and I think that has its place in civilized society, but such measures only work if your enemies share your values. Take Gandi for example. He'd have never freed India had he faced Nazis, Imperial Japanese, or Islamafascists instead of the British and their western values.

H

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Friday, June 23, 2006 9:39 AM

my point is that there shouldn't have been a war in the first place

think

almost all the senators and whatnot that were supporting the war have large investments in oil

now, what has the price of oil done since the war began?

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

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Friday, June 23, 2006 10:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:

How amusingly inappropriate and absurd. So you are comparing Osama to William Wallace? IS that what I'm hearing? How do you get to a Braveheart reference from anything I said?

Quote:
I believe our hero's point in this scene is that sometimes you gotta fight. And with liberals its just as good to smack them around as it is to reason with them.

I find the idea of some pansy-ass lawyer "smacking me around" amusing. 101st fighting keyboardists, eh Hero?

You have lost the argument, and now you veer into the deranged. As a lawyer, you should know that we are a nation of laws. People who break those laws are dealt with by those individuals we have designated as upholders of those laws, namely, police and government agencies.

You do a whole lot of talking about liberals who don't fight, but it's strange - you're not arguing with me from Iraq, you're arguing with me from home. Go ahead tough guy, take "world injustice" into your own hands and sign up. You may have never met a brave liberal, which is interesting, because I've never met a conservative that didn't want to send somebody else to fight in their place.

And badmouthing Ghandi? You're pathetic.

------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 10:16 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
(Everyone leaves except Citizen and PirateNews. The latter hides himself in a place to watch. SP is confused, not knowing what to expect. Hero suddenly strikes SP, knocking him to the floor.)

Point one, where am I and what am I doing?

Quote:
Liberals, always willing to give you the shirt off of someone else's back.

Conservatives, always willing to steal the shirt of someone else's back.

Quote:
Its never been 'America can't win the war', its 'liberals can't win the war'.

Neither can Conservatives.

Quote:
I've never met a real liberal who could fight worth a damn.

I've never met a Conservative that can either. Met a few that can gang up on a weaker opponent, a few that can talk the talk, a few that can get other people to do the fighting for them.

A few that call other people cowards when they don't bully the little guy.

Quote:
They can whine (and wine), they can complain, they can even partake in non-violent civil dissobiediance...and I think that has its place in civilized society, but such measures only work if your enemies share your values. Take Gandi for example. He'd have never freed India had he faced Nazis, Imperial Japanese, or Islamafascists instead of the British and their western values.

Violence is a last resort, something most conservatives don't seem to understand because they seem to believe might makes right.

This is probably why they tend to back down when someone stronger comes along, rather than fighting on with the courage of their convictions.

It’s a tired old argument; anyone who won’t fight their wars for them is a Coward. Worked for the British during their imperial expansion, worked for the Nazi’s (since you brought them up), worked for the Imperial Japanese. So you’re in good company calling anyone who won’t do what you want them to a coward.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 10:17 AM

I'm going to be ignored, aren't I?

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

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Friday, June 23, 2006 10:35 AM

Guy everything you've said has been said a million times before here.

Everyone here knows the oil connection (and no Oil is not the only reason the admin went to war) or ignores it because they want to desperately believe that their man is on the up and up.

They'd watch Bush plunge a knife into a baby’s heart and rationalise it. The baby must of been a terrorist with WMD's.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 10:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Guywhowantsafireflyofhisown:
I'm going to be ignored, aren't I?

Actually, with a small post in between a classic 7%/Hero argument (

), it's not so much a case of being ignored as even seen in the first place. Once we've degenerated a thread, it's hard to get it back to normalcy

.

Calling Chrisisall to moderate!

------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 11:05 AM

OLDENGLANDDRY

I told you not to give Cheney a gun.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 11:33 AM

KJW

I was right the pendulum is finally swinging back to the left.

I love the RWD threads, but I rarely post, still I have to say that in the last few months the conservatives have really lost it. Storymark, made an interesting point: Hero sounds like he has left reality behind, his arguments nowadays make no sense. This forum has shifted from the right to the left and I am afraid it is driving Hero and the few other remaining conservatives insane.

Hero, it's OK your party is certainly not fiscally conservative, your party is more than a little idealistic, and your party is more than a little incompetent. Us democrats have accepted these truths for decades and it really brings us inner peace. Find the happy thoughts.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SevenPercent:

Calling Chrisisall to moderate!

There was a time when Hero made sense, and I'm sure he still can, given a little time. The funeral he went to has him all spun about, and understandably so. No one like to think of a man dying for a whim or a dubious plan, it's too horrifying, too much loss of control thinking we could all just be puppets who's wires could be cut at any moment because a number was picked or a General was feeling particularly feisty on a certain morning in the field.

The neo-con arguments are beginning to crumble in on themselves, let's not beat 'em when they're going down.

Not-so-moderate moderating Chrisisall

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Friday, June 23, 2006 12:57 PM

SIMONWHO

Why not? They would. They have.

This is one thing that troubles me about the Democrats: the lack of a killer instinct. They shy away from impeachment when they should be talking about imprisonment.

They should be absolutely crushing every single Republican, humiliating them, labelling every single one responsible for the deaths of so many Americans and Iraqis. They should grind every senator, representative and campaigner into the dirt.

And you know something? I suspect most Republicans would respect that.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 2:43 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Tell that to the 2500 American heroes who gave their lives in honorable service to their nation. I wonder how they feel about the handful of cowards and deserters

.... and lawyers?...

Quote:
who have refused to go.

Hey Hero- good news! They just upped the recruitment age to 42. If you hurry I bet you can join!

I dunno why but I still get an icky feeling every time Hero attends a funeral. It's almost as if he wants the glory to rub off on him w/o having to actually do anything... er, heroic... himself.

---------------------------------
He wants to be a Hero, but he can't.

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Friday, June 23, 2006 3:05 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Except the huge stockpile of chemical weapons they found but didn't tell us about...seems I might have mentioned that possibility some time ago or in layman's terms...I told you so. Although some people have wondered why they never told us about them. Perhaps they were allowing the Wrongocrats to dig themselves into a really deep hole.

Of course we know Iraq had chemical weapons. After all, we still have the receipts! This is what John "Death Squad" Negroponte had to say: www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Iraq_WMD_Declassified.pdf

First, it wasn't a "huge stockpile". They were found individually or in small clusters here and there... pretty much as they have been finding them all along.

Second, they are pre- Gulf War. Nothing of newer vintage. Basically they are shells that were either abandonded or squirreled away and forgotten in the hasty retreat of the Gulf War.

Third, they are degraded. The only chemical weapon that could survive 15 years of storage is mustard gas. All the rest of the stuff is useless. If someone wants to buy it, maybe we should just have a garage sale and let them waste their money. Nobody is saying that Saddam never had chemical weapons. The operative word is "had" (very past tense).

As far as having the biological and radiological weapons that Bush & Co claimed ....

---------------------------------
Those who forget history are doomed to.... uh, how does that go?

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Friday, June 23, 2006 3:46 PM

PIRATEJENNY

I told you that our civil liberties would be infringed upon and violated!!

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Friday, June 23, 2006 5:24 PM

PIRATEJENNY

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Why not? They would. They have.

This is one thing that troubles me about the Democrats: the lack of a killer instinct. They shy away from impeachment when they should be talking about imprisonment.

They should be absolutely crushing every single Republican, humiliating them, labelling every single one responsible for the deaths of so many Americans and Iraqis. They should grind every senator, representative and campaigner into the dirt.

And you know something? I suspect most Republicans would respect that.

Totally agree with this post, we have to really take a stand because if we don't then we don't stand for anything!!

proud to be a Liberal, and I'm sure as hell not afraid to take a stand!!

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Saturday, June 24, 2006 8:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:

This is one thing that troubles me about the Democrats: the lack of a killer instinct. They shy away from impeachment when they should be talking about imprisonment.

They should be absolutely crushing every single Republican, humiliating them, labelling every single one responsible for the deaths of so many Americans and Iraqis. They should grind every senator, representative and campaigner into the dirt.

Oh yeah, I TOTALLY agree about that in the world- I meant here on the RWED, we might like to ease up just a bit on our fellow Browncoats who are still stricken with the sickness of Bush-rationalization syndrome. It's a hard pill to swallow for them (the TRUTH), and recovery is slow in completing

.

A good jail sentance for many might make some in our government think twice (or hopefully more) before sending good men and women to their deaths over oil and puffed up chests.

Throw the book Chrisisall

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Saturday, June 24, 2006 5:04 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

second entry - global warming

Nearly everything I know I learned by the grace of others.

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Saturday, June 24, 2006 5:28 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Zero,

How many people in the Bush administration have been in military combat? There was Powell, but he got out. And then there was .... I can think of ... none. Pehaps you can come up with a name or two. Otherwise, I'll say that republicowards are always ready for others to die, as long as they get more $$$

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Liberals, always willing to give you the shirt off of someone else's back.

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 2:13 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

"Bush lied".

About everything pretty much. But here are some quotes from people who were there:

Quote:
... a CIA analyst warns Bush in August 2001 that bin Laden was planning to strike the U.S. Bush's response: "All right. You've covered your ass, now."

And

Quote:
In January 2003, with the war propaganda machine... At issue was the last in an endless series of draft reports about the connection between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda. How many drafts? Miscik couldn't remember. The pressure from the White House -- and from the various intelligence divisions under the Vice President and the Secretary of Defense -- had started a week after 9/11." Miscik {CIA} had repeatedly shot down the bogus connections advanced by the war hawks, in particular the specious claim that hijacker Mohammed Atta had met with an Iraqi agent in Prague. But Cheney and Rumsfeld and their parallel-intel shops -- factories cranking out war-justifying lies -- kept putting them back in. Miscik had sent her final draft to Libby and Hadley a few days before, and told them this was it -- she wasn't changing it again. Now they were after her again. "'I'm not going back there, again, George,' Miscik said. 'If I have to go back to hear their crap and rewrite this goddamn report ... I'm resigning, right now.'

---------------------------------
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 3:02 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Hero, put up or shut up.

Either march your ass down to the recruiting office this very damned instant or shut the hell up about how we need to be in iraq.

You see, while you and your friends are kicking back nice and safe in your cozy little gated communities, driving your gas guzzling SUVs - it's MY friends who are coming back in body bags, and you know what ? just about all of them are liberals, so how do YOU reconcile that, would-be-hero ?

Yah, while you and your conservative friends sit home cheerleading for an administration properly considered an abject nightmare world-wide, while you sit there and go on about how liberals are pansies, those dirt poor liberals are out there with their blood soaking into the sand of a country for naught more than the enrichment of corporate scum like KBR and Haliburton, who don't even have the motherfraggin decency to provide them with decent food and uncontaminated water for the obscene amount of money they're being paid to do so.

And if 25% of my original equipment wasn't prosthetics and plastics, my poor ass would have been out there with em, like it or not.

And while YOU, mister too-many-bolan-books, might think heroism only involves direct combat, lemme tell you something.

While undeniably it takes courage for a well-trained, physically fit 11B to take his well-maintained M4 with full LBE and a squad of equally effective grunts and engage the enemy, it takes the same amount of guts or more for the USAR Logistics troops driving that truck, with only ONE mag of ammo, a vietnam era relic M16A1 that may or may not even fire, no matter how well maintained (the crappy magazines supply companies get foisted on them contribute to this too), with no escort, no support, no air or arty cover, on a run that Command doesn't even have the sense to vary the time on, right up ambush alley in a softskin deuce and a half.

It also takes a damned lot of courage to look your company commander in the eye and tell him "With all due respect sir, you're out of your mind." when he issues an order you know is illegal - this specifically includes shooting at unarmed civvies who've wandered into your bivouac.

I can understand the folks who cut and run, the hell if I would blame them for bailing out on an aggressive war against a country that posed no *significant* threat to us, nor attacked us - it derides the entire purpose of the army, and *especially* the national guard, for them to even be there - but the folks I truly respect, and you won't see many newsclippings about these folks neither, are the ones who threw their rifle at the feet of their platoon Sgt and told him "Hell no, sarge, I ain't killin for haliburton no more!"

Leavenworth or not, THAT is heroism, too.

So until you put your money where your mouth is, mister, and go take the ASVAB, I don't wanna hear a damned thing from you about Iraq - you haven't the right (morally) to be saying we should send our friends, lovers, brothers and sons into hell, when you are unwilling to go yourself.

-Frem
76x10 Subsistance Supply Specialist
E-3/Private First Class
(Yeah, I was the guy who gets those MRE's to the troops, and you think about how 'safe' that job is before you mock it.)

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 3:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

It also takes a damned lot of courage to look your company commander in the eye and tell him "With all due respect sir, you're out of your mind." when he issues an order you know is illegal - this specifically includes shooting at unarmed civvies who've wandered into your bivouac.

Courage like that deserves respect...it's almost super-human...

"...a man's got a choice."
"I don't believe he does."

Well, at least Mal-like.

Chrisisall

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 5:26 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

SignyM,

Quote:
I dunno why but I still get an icky feeling every time Hero attends a funeral. It's almost as if he wants the glory to rub off on him w/o having to actually do anything... er, heroic... himself.

---------------------------------
He wants to be a Hero, but he can't.

I've been puzzling over him for a while. And I know I'm slow and other people have gotten here way before me, but ... it seems to me he is a typical republi-coward.

First of all he's suckling on the tit of a system he claims to despise, which is big-government public-service (as a prosecutor). Now if he were really into free-enterprise he'd get some courage together set up a business of his own. But he doesn't (cowardice), he blathers on about the evils of government (hypocracy), and he takes its money (self-serving).

I believe he wants to run for public office (chief prosecutor?), so his attending these funerals is purely a political move (cynicism). It's his initial campaign strategy. I think we all realize he has no sympathy or respect for the deceased or their bereft (sociopath). But his personal brand of smarm? - I don't know. Does that sell in Ohio?

He's obviously a republican (which speaks to him being coniving). That party has an efficient machine in Ohio that controls the entire election process (from registration to number of booths to local election officials who 'maintain' voting machine security). Throwing out the basis of democracy like free and fair elections, he went with the party that could get the job done - for him.

So, bottom-feeding cowardly amoral opportunist come to mind.

As to what he gets out of coming here with his one-man freak show, I have no idea.

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 5:27 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Fremdfirma,

I know that what I have to say is superfluous, but it is honest and completely heartfelt: you are awesome.

So please accept my deeply-felt thanks for your service and sacrifice, and my humble respect.

Sincerely,
Rue

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 5:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Hero, put up or shut up.

Either march your ass down to the recruiting office this very damned instant or shut the hell up about how we need to be in iraq.

Ah, another pro-Draft liberal. Well I don't favor the draft. I think the all-volunteer military is exactly what we need.

There are limits to the ability for citizens to volunteer. Age is one, medical disqualification is another. When I graduated lawschool in 2002 I wrote to my Congressman and both Senators suggesting the change both the enlistment age and revise the prohibitions against certain medical disabilities (ones that don't neccessarily render people completely disabled in today's world...like vision or poor hearing or flatfeet, etc.) for the reserves or national guard (in order to free up more able bodied soldiers for combat duties). Since then the Pentagon has revised its enlistment standards (for example you can now sign up till your 42).

Your argument is essentially that if a person has not served or chooses not to serve then they have no voice. While you and Heinlen make excellent points, that is not our current law. I would suggest that were your standard universally applied, then most liberals would suddenly find themselves without voice. Its a compromise I'd be willing to make. Imagine, no more Sheehan, no more Moore, just a couple congressional Democrats and about 20 million Republicans.

Quote:

just about all of them are liberals, so how do YOU reconcile that, would-be-hero ?

At the funeral last week there were hundreds of veterans from this war and past ones...the only liberals were the handful of long-haired types waving signs across the street...(To be fair, there is that radical right wing anti-gay group thats been protesting at funerals...but they didn't show for this one. Just the local anti-war crowd.)

Quote:

And if 25% of my original equipment wasn't prosthetics and plastics, my poor ass would have been out there with em, like it or not.

Sorry to hear about your disability. Shame you can't serve...guess that means you can't put up and wont shut up. Makes you kind of useless...just like me...only I don't let it get me down.

Quote:

"Hell no, sarge, I ain't killin for haliburton no more!"

Leavenworth or not, THAT is heroism, too.

I'm sure it does take courage. Takes courage to walk into the local drug store saying "Gimmie all the cash!". There's lots of courage out there, not all legal, not all prudent, and not all bout doing the right thing.

Quote:

So until you put your money where your mouth is, mister, and go take the ASVAB, I don't wanna hear a damned thing from you about Iraq - you haven't the right (morally) to be saying we should send our friends, lovers, brothers and sons into hell, when you are unwilling to go yourself.

I'll meet you there, the day they take your 25% plastic ass, I'll be next in line. Least I'm trying to get the policy changed so folk like me and maybe you can serve if we want to (in a support capacity at least). I can JAG as good as anybody and you can bitch and moan...good army need both.

Now that said, I've been known to help out the folk who are serving. Helped one Marine get his liscense back, gave money to help put a local Army reservist's daughter through college after he dies defending this nation in Iraq (I dare you to tell his daughter different and if you had the courage to tell her, then I suspect I'd have the courage to kick your ass for breaking her heart just a little more, although there'd be a line...maybe we could charge admission with proceeds for charity...what do you say?)

Looking over this message and yours I think we both have gotten a bit too heated. I leave my message unaltered because I think it makes good points but I apologize if I got carried away on the emotional content.

H

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 6:09 AM

You fella's crack me up.

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
First of all he's suckling on the tit of a system he claims to despise, which is big-government public-service (as a prosecutor). Now if he were really into free-enterprise he'd get some courage together set up a business of his own. But he doesn't (cowardice), he blathers on about the evils of government (hypocracy), and he takes its money (self-serving).

Can't say I don't like a good tit to suckle on, actually I could make a ton of money in private practice...but then I couldn't throw wife beaters, drug dealers, and PirateNewies in jail. My loans are small enough that I don't really need the money. Sure I don't have much money now, but I have a nice condo, a car and in a few years my estranged Grandfather will kick off and I'll have plenty of money. So until then, I'm happy to serve my City, my City is happy to have me, and the only people who arent happy are locked up in County and I don't really have to worry about them till Monday morning.

Quote:

I believe he wants to run for public office (chief prosecutor?), so his attending these funerals is purely a political move (cynicism). It's his initial campaign strategy. I think we all realize he has no sympathy or respect for the deceased or their bereft (sociopath). But his personal brand of smarm? - I don't know. Does that sell in Ohio?

Yeah it does. It was me out there for politcal gain and everyone else who knew him there to be with me for the photo op...wish I'd thought to bring my camera. I could run for County Prosecutor...our current one is a Democrat who has botched more cases then anyone I know (not because she's a Democrat, she's just a poor manager, personally she needs to hire outside the party since all the good Democratic lawyers are out there representing the criminals).

Quote:

He's obviously a republican (which speaks to him being coniving).

Thats only because I work for a Republican mayor...believe me, I'm prepared to be a Democrat (there are conservative Democrats out there) if my job required it. Here, let me try...health care, yeah! Welfare, yeah! Terrorists, boo! Child molesters, yeah? Damn...need to work on that one. Locally it really doesn't matter what your party is, try this...zoning amendment for commercial development of vacant industrial property by the river, yeah!

H

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 6:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Fremdfirma,

I know that what I have to say is superfluous, but it is honest and completely heartfelt: you are awesome.

So please accept my deeply-felt thanks for your service and sacrifice, and my humble respect.

Sincerely,
Rue

You've got a little something on your nose...

H

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 6:46 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Zero,

Quote:
Can't say I don't like a good tit to suckle on, actually I could make a ton of money in private practice.

But the first rung to public office and the fame and glory you feel entitled to is as prosecutor. Private practice just doesn't give you the same entre.

Quote:
It was me out there for politcal gain

Which is why you very publically attend EVERY military funeral in your district - because you are close personal friends with every soldier who died in combat. Let me ask you this - for every 1 killed there are 10 permanently handicapped. If the ratio holds, you are also close personal friends with every soldier injured as well. What do you do in private for those close personal friends, if anything? Oh, and another point you didn't address - how does your personal brand of smarm sell?

Quote:
Thats only because I work for a Republican mayor...believe me, I'm prepared to be a Democrat.

Oh, I could tell. I believe I used the word opportunist.

And as to what might or might not be on my nose, it is neither brown, nor white, like the mix of colors on yours.

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 7:05 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Zero,

Quote:
Your argument is essentially that if a person has not served or chooses not to serve then they have no voice.

Now there's a straw-man argument for you. That is not what he said or implied. What he said was that you need to get off your self-righteous hobby-horse and walk your talk.

Quote:
At the funeral last week there were hundreds of veterans ...the only liberals were the handful

And you know the political persuasion of every one of the hundreds at the funeral. Amazing. You must be clairvoyant. (And you need to get a grip on this - you don't have to be conservative to respect the sacrifice.)

Quote:
Makes you kind of useless...just like me...only I don't let it get me down.

Oh, Zero, this was SOOOOOOOooooo low and so very, very careless. You missed this:

Quote:
-Frem
76x10 Subsistance Supply Specialist
E-3/Private First Class
(Yeah, I was the guy who gets those MRE's to the troops, and you think about how 'safe' that job is before you mock it.)

Now here he just told you how to put your ass where your mouth goes. And you completely blew it.

So, to get back to the original point, WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH WMDs?

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 7:42 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Sure I don't have much money now, but I have a nice condo, a car and in a few years my estranged Grandfather will kick off and I'll have plenty of money.

Between this and your attendance at military funerals of all your so-called "close friends" ... Hero, you've got all the charm of a vulture sitting on the bedpost. Will you eulogize and cry crocodile tears at his funeral too?.

Quote:
wish I'd thought to bring my camera

Ummm yeah... like the local newspaper wasn't there.

Thanks Rue. Hero by his own words is an opportunist.

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 8:30 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Here's another one:

Bush has a vendetta against the CIA. Not because they gave him bad intelligence but because they tried to tell him the truth:

In addition to my previous post with quotes from CIA agents who repeatedly tried to eliminate the Administration's false alarms about 9-11 and Iraq, here is today's article from cnn

Quote:
A former CIA officer says he made repeated efforts to alert top agency officials to problems with an Iraqi defector's claims about the country's mobile biological weapons labs but he was ignored, the Washington Post reported Sunday. CIA officer Tyler Drumheller said he personally crossed out a reference to the labs from a classified draft of a U.N. speech by Secretary of State Colin Powell because he recognized the source as a defector, code-named Curveball, who was suspected to be mentally unstable and a liar.

So let's see... The CIA tried to eliminate references to mobile labs, they tried to eliminate references to yellowcake uranium, they tried to eliminate references to the Atta-Hussein connection (because there was none) and they tried to warn Bush about a pending al Qaida attack on the USA. And what did they get in return?

One of their NOC officers was outed, they got blamed for "bad intelligence", their chief resigned and was replaced by a martinet which led to mass retirements and resignations, and their agency- which really had been doing a good job all along- was eventually subsumed under a Bush toady (Negroponte).

---------------------------------
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 4:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
gave money to help put a local Army reservist's daughter through college after he dies defending this nation in Iraq

I feel bad for her loss, and maybe she needs to believe this, but you Hero, on the other hand, are being plain stupid.
"Defending this nation in Iraq"....

And I'll defend my home by jumping some teenage rapists in Cleveland....

Not that rapists don't need to be put away, but you get my point Chrisisall

P.S., no you don't, I guess

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Sunday, June 25, 2006 4:56 PM