Question re: the intent of the US government by Amiton

That's probably mostly reasonable. I do think that W has a skewed view of the role of the president, and I think his dad has a lot to do with that. The signing statements issue going on right now is about as far as I need to look to agree with that.

Not an unreasonable point at all, FMF =)

Amiton.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 4:18 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

I try

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 4:38 AM

CHRISISALL

Hello, Amiton. This is your President.
I thought I take this time to answer your question directly, thanks to a hack into your board I don't fully understand, although Zippy here does, don't ya pal? Okay, get back to that Congress guy's line, now.

So, to answer your question, I do what's RIGHT for the American People! There are NO conspiracies. We HAD to go into Iraq, and if "truth" gets in the path of progress, it becomes the tree in our right of way. I have made decisions that have caused many to go to God. This is not a bad thing, and their sacrifice has brought us all closer to security, the most valued of all American Ideals.
In the instance of Katrina, for example, a valuable lesson has been taught, that Daddy doesn't always save you- time to grow up. Take care of yourselves!
I agree with Neechee; that which does not kill this nation, will only make it stronger!
Hard lessons, son, hard lessons.

Time to get off this board and volunteer for service now; all your questions have been answered.
God Bless.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 4:42 AM

CHRISISALL

Frakkin A!
I just got HACKED!! I couldn't get online for almost a half hour! CRIKEY!
Oh, funny, yeah- this was him, I'm sure...ha ha very funny....

wait...the tone is right...
NAW, it couldn't be...!...

Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 4:45 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

ROFLMAO!

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 5:26 AM

Shut up and walk slowly toward them guns boy.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 6:59 AM

I'm not sure how to take these, guys =) They are funny, which is fine. Is that the point that was being made, just for the sake of humor, or were you saying that yes there is intent, or just yes, the American President, while well intentioned in his own bass-ackward universe is doing what he thinks is right, but in an utterly retarded manner =)

I know you guys don't really like the guy, or his policies, or his PR skills, or, well, much of anything about him. I was just trying to figure out what level that all happens at in your opinions...

Amiton.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 8:02 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

In my opinion, the administration is 'The Perfect Storm of Mendacity'. Each faction has its own agenda, but they are all running over the public with hobnail boots.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 8:14 AM

HKCAVALIER

As I see it, the essence of evil is the denial of evil; when you decide that you are incapable of evil, that's when you are most vulnerable to true evil's allure. You start thinking that "It can't be evil if I'm doing it!" The only people who commit evil acts believing them to be evil are the mentally ill.

So is the admin made up of mustache-twirling villains? Certainly not. Do they believe that the ends (global domination by the only righteous nation on earth) justify the means (lying for our own good, torturing and killing people because they're in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong culture and the wrong skin color, maintaining an atmosphere of fear so they can maintain the illusion of control)? 'Fraid so. How far these lies go, I'm really not sure.

And of course, the first people they lie to are themselves. That's how the Bush apologists can maintain that Bush never lied in the face of falsehood after falsehood; nothing short of mustache-twirling intention and signed documents of a "This is how I plan to lie to the American people" nature will convince them of our admin's duplicity. They don't lie, they just make mistakes, or remember things wrong, only tell us part of the story for reasons of national security. Things have shifted in our obsessively litigious society from a standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" to "beyond any doubt whatsoever." O. J. goes free, Rodney King's abusers go free and Bush gets a pass because he "has our best interests at heart."

It is the ever growing capacity for denial in our collective American psyche that has paved the way for the tremendous harm our foreign policy is doing in the world. Fascists never see themselves as fascistic, they only see themselves as the rightful rulers of the earth.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 8:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Amiton:
I generally try to believe that most politicians at least make an attempt to do good things for their constituants and make the legacy of their tenure positive.

This is one of the biggest keys, in my mind, to understanding this administration. Who do they see as their consituents? Or, in other words, who do they see as their customer? This is true of any administration, however I believe that this administration cares about a much smaller group of consituents than those in the past.

More after I get back from meetings.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 8:40 AM

Rue:
Okay then. Each faction on its own agenda. Where do you place the intentions of those factions? I promise, I'm not planning to run down the possible recursion of this question until it's expended, I'm just curious. What I've seen of the US Bureaucracy is that each of the factions see themselves in the fiefdom model. They all have their own mission and vision, sometimes set by their own judgement, and they're going to do whatever they have to in order to get to their interpretation of their charter. Other fiefdoms that intrude upon their soveriegnty in said domain will be crushed. See the CIA v. the FBI v. INS v. DoD Intel issues for an example.

HK:
Much like FMF asserted earlier, I think yours is probably a fair assessment. None of us will ever truely know for certain, of course. I see a few issues that pop up all over. The politicians in most cases look out for the betterment of themselves and their fife. See above.

Now, these poiticos have to at least present an appearance to their constituants that they act in the district's best interest (on the off chance that someone looks up their voting record that might even be affected, but mostly they have to at least give lip service to "doing the right thing"). These guys are given tremendous power, though, and there are people that will give them just about anything for a little piece of that. Out come the moral blinders and the motivation of self-betterment. As long as they can convince themselves that nobody will be hurt then it must be okay, right?

*sigh* I've always disliked politics for this exact reason. When I start to think about it too much, it just ends up ugly and makes me feel like the system is broken beyond recovery. And we even have structure in place to move beyond the status quo in the direction of improved profit margins.

Amiton.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 8:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Quote:
Originally posted by Amiton:
I generally try to believe that most politicians at least make an attempt to do good things for their constituants and make the legacy of their tenure positive.

This is one of the biggest keys, in my mind, to understanding this administration. Who do they see as their consituents? Or, in other words, who do they see as their customer? This is true of any administration, however I believe that this administration cares about a much smaller group of consituents than those in the past.

More after I get back from meetings.

Let's run with this for a moment. I presume that you're asserting that the percieved consituants are big corporations and the most wealthy. Whether it's acceptable as a line of thinking or not, do you see Bush (since he's who we do and likely will continue to focus on) looking at it that way because he truly believes in Reaganomics, trickle-down theory, and voodoo economics (since they favor such behavior)? Is he (possibly) acting in that way because he feels that it is the way to the better good of all Americans and the US economy? As errant as that thinking has tended to be over the years, is his personal road to hell being paved with golden bricks of genuinely *wanting* to be a good president to the people, even if he is screwing it up?

Amiton.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 9:33 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I see a gradation of evil. The two groups that HK outlined, if I got it right, are those who do evil for it's own sake, and those who rationalize evil out of existance with a different scheme of values. I think there is a third set, and it is those who do evil knowing it's evil but not caring - b/c they benefit in some way.

I can't enter the minds of the people who I think are doing evil (the factions of the current administration) so I will never KNOW for sure how to categorize them.

But I can speculate:

Bush - has lied and lied and lied repeatedly, about all sorts of things both big (Iraq) and little (FEMA). Apparently OK with it as long as he convinces others. (The transforming power of persuation.) Lied the US into a war of aggression; bankrupted the country for generations to come with tax policies, war, and corporate welfare; is dismantling the environment, SS, etc. No concern for human life or empathy. No apparent conscience about anything. His MO - lie to put a good face on actions. Feigning a popular persona is how he validates himself. His agenda - look out for #1. Sociopath.

Cheney - truly evil, knows it and doesn't care. Looks out for Cheney, Haliburton, and Cheney, in that order. Personally brutal. Wants torture, argues for toture at every turn. Wanted the Iraq war, hounded intelligence for the 'right' facts and got PO'd when they wouldn't cooperate (lie). Shoots his friend in the face and goes off to dinner. Doesn't have the skill to make himself look good. That ticking that you hear is the watch the wizard gave him, his real heart, ironically, doesn't work that well. Sociopath and psychopath.

The PNAC crowd. Some true believers, some opportunists. Splits even among the true believers. Some want to starve the beast, and some want the beast to rampage around the globe.

Rove has had anough written about him.

And assorted opportunists, liars, grifters and American Taliban (the Evangelicals).

None of them have the public good in mind.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 9:45 AM

CHRISISALL

I would pretty much agree w/Rue above (although I think GW thinks he has compassion), I think he put it best. And very clearly (although I personally wouldn't have worded it that strongly...at this moment

).

Still want HK and Rue for Prez & VP Chrisisall

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 10:22 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

"The government" is a huge organization. Heck, even I'M "the government" because I'm a government employee. So to break down the motivations of "the government" would take some time, but taking Rue's tack:

Bush is an incomplete individual who only speaks fluidly when talking about vengeance and violence. Neither of his two neurons work very well. His instincts are so twisted that he just winds up doing bad things, even as he rationalizes to himself that it's for good reasons. He will trample everyone- including himself (except Cheney and Condi) to fulfill his confused pursuits.

Cheney is fully cognizant of the damage that he's doing in pursuit of personal wealth and power, and really doesn't care. The knowledge that this can all come to a screeching halt if his heart fails doesn't seem to influence his behavior either, except possibly to make him go faster.

Abrams, Wurmser, Wolfowitz, and Perle are Zionists who have no concern whatsoever about America or its needs. They really only care about Israel. (I could probably put Liberman and Feinstein in that bag too. But they don't have position papers that they've written for the Likud Party stuck to their shoes.)

Rove is a sociopathic manipulator and a closeted self-hating gay who sees the American public as subjects in his great experiment of how much he can convince people to hurt themselves. It's an ego thing for him.

The low-level American Taliban (right wing Xtian evagenlicals) who have taken over the Texas Republican party are sincere, but nutty as a fruitcakes.

A large portion of Republican Party (De Lay, Cunnigham, Reed, Norquist, Ney etc etc) are plundering their public positions for as much $$ as they can get. I don't think there is even fig-leaf of public interest covering their activities. The remainder of the Republican Party are hiding out with the Democrats.

A large part of the Democratic Party are hoping to lay low and continue collecting the perks and paychecks of their trade.

---------------------------------
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 10:43 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I TOO am part of 'the government'. (

) Fortunately my job's arcane enough and I'm low-level enough that I've not been asked to lie, about anything. YEE HA!

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 11:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
The low-level American Taliban (right wing Xtian evagenlicals) who have taken over the Texas Republican party are sincere, but nutty as a fruitcakes.

I saw a documentary recently about an American college taking the brightest minds from 'good Christian families' and grooming them to be Republican leaders, with the stated purpose of bringing down the wall between church and state.

They want to turn the US into a Christian Theocracy and they're not above a bit of brain washing to do it. A scary prospect for Christians and non-Christians alike, unless, of course, your part of the ruling class...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 12:00 PM

SIMONWHO

Political leaders generally look after (in the following order): themselves, their colleagues (those they're not trying to destroy), their base.

Bush has made himself and his allies even richer, simply due to bumping up the oil price 30% or so. Imagine being able to sell your product for 30% more, even though it doesn't cost you one cent more to produce. Nice, huh? All you have to do is invade this country with a bad man as its leader and there you go. Perfect.

His base, of course, is the have's and the have more's.

The constitution, the courts, public opinion, free speech, human rights, the Geneva Convention? Obstacles to be fought against or ignored. (Case in point: Supreme Court says you can't use military tribunals on the GB detainees; Bush immediately announces he'll try to find a "middle way" to use... military tribunals.)

Basically, he's a self-serving opportunist. And he's made fools of nearly every American. But hey, you elected and re-elected him. Most of you deserve the whirlwind. Shame you're not the ones paying the heaviest price.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 12:11 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

So Amiton,

You got lots of posts - people just expressing opinions, sometimes backing them up with history.

What say you?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 1:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Amiton:
Let's run with this for a moment. I presume that you're asserting that the percieved consituants are big corporations and the most wealthy. Whether it's acceptable as a line of thinking or not, do you see Bush (since he's who we do and likely will continue to focus on) looking at it that way because he truly believes in Reaganomics, trickle-down theory, and voodoo economics (since they favor such behavior)? Is he (possibly) acting in that way because he feels that it is the way to the better good of all Americans and the US economy? As errant as that thinking has tended to be over the years, is his personal road to hell being paved with golden bricks of genuinely *wanting* to be a good president to the people, even if he is screwing it up?

Amiton.

Yeah, that's basically what I was getting at (re: big corporations and the very wealthy). Look at pretty much every domestic policy that this administration has implemented. Figure out who really benefits. Figure out how much money they donated through lobbying efforts (the return on investment is staggering). Figure out what the costs are. Figure out who shoulders the burdens of the majority of those costs. Figure out the long term implications of those policies. Or, figure which small coalition of the Republican base that the policy is designed to appease.

The domestic policies can basically be broken down into: industry should regulate themselves, the many who don't have should give to the few who do have, and some token bones tossed to the rabid among the faithful. In the first two instances it is a case of legislating for the powerful minority against the weak majority. And everyone pays the costs.

In response to your question about Bush's personal motivations, I don't think that he is aware of the true effect his policies are having on the vast majority of Americans. And, even if he is, I don't think that he cares. There are life experiences, familiar to the vast majority of Americans, that he has never had. He has never had to work a day in his life. He has held jobs, but never through necessity. He's never had to go without health insurance because he couldn't afford it. He's never had to suck it up and take it when the actions of a corporation impact his life (whether it's through negligence or pollution or whatever) because he didn't have the resources to stand up to the deep pockets of the corporation and their team of highly paid lawyers. He's never had to decide which bills to pay, or feed his children crap food because it's cheap, or not be able to afford medication when they're sick, or make any of a number of decisions that those who are living paycheck to paycheck often have to make. It's not even on his radar screen. Good for him - I wish more Americans could enjoy that standard of living. Bad for us. Some people can grow up in an environment like Bush's and still empathize with those less fortunate. For whatever reason, Bush can't. He is, by his own admission, not curious (read: doesn't feel the need to learn).

Unlike most Americans, he has always operated with a safety net. And so, I believe, he just has no clue how the rest of us live. His comment at that dinner of wealthy donors was telling, "Some people call you the elites; I call you my base." It was a joke but, like many jokes, revealed the underlying beliefs of the joke-teller. Anyone below that elite line doesn't matter. I think that the vast majority of Americans are non-factors in his thinking process. Until it comes time for a photo-op.

* edited to add a few sentences

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 3:25 PM

An ass is but an ass, though laden with gold.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 3:28 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Soupcatcher,

I would add one thing to your analysis. George Bush has a strong desire to make his mark on history. He wants to be remembered as one of the greats. I think this desire drives a lot of his foreign policy.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 4:02 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Oh, just one more thing to add ... the republiCONs seem to think their days are numbered. They are speeding up their pillage and it's now shamelessly, breathtakingly naked.

The Senate just approved offshore OIL drilling, killing the 24 year old ban.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 4:42 PM

KANEMAN

Excellent... we should have been drilling for the last 20 years...wouldn't be in this position now.
The prez and crew don't need off shore oil, they just steal it from the middle east..right?
Where is all this stolen oil? Send some my way.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 5:03 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Excellent... Where is that emoticon for Mr Burns when you need it ?

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, June 30, 2006 5:46 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
do you believe that the individuals that we have in government are acting with malicious intent toward the American public?

Yes.

Not all individuals of course. But I believe there are people in power who KNOW full well they are hurting people in order to achieve their personal, selfish objectives -- and frankly don't give a damn. These folks are not just found in government, but also in corporations, universities, foundations, and professional associations. Many of these powermongers have formed alliances with each other to get what they want, and they don't care that peons die.

Then there are the misguided folks who THINK peons have to die for the greater good. Like VICKI in the I,Robot movie.

Then there are folks who enjoy having the power to send peons to death. This is evil for the enjoyment -- serial killer style. Why kill 24 one by one when you can send thousands to their deaths? A smart, charismatic sociopath would definitely find a way to climb up the power ladder to kill through policy.

Whether the Bush admin is misguided or unconscionably selfish or downright malevolent or visionary is in the eye of the beholder.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, July 1, 2006 1:25 AM

People who want power and are capable of attaining it tend to want it for selfish ends, which is why the person most suited to rule would be the last one who wanted to do so. You can keep this under some sort of control with the carrot and the stick (usually) i.e. you make them play right and by the rules by dancing the spectre of not getting re-elected before them.

Unfortunately it seems that sometimes such sociopaths can get a hold of the stick and turn the tables so to speak. Instead of dangling the carrot of re-election before the sociopath, the sociopaths re-election becomes assured, while they dangle carrots before the populace to get them to do act and think how those in power desire.

Re-election works for those in power, because they want power, fear works for the masses because they want to feel safe, they want they're children to be safe, they want they're families and friends to be safe. Powerful people want power, everyone else wants safety.

So when the stick is held by the sociopath in charge, rather than by the masses the carrot is fear rather than re-election. The current American administration seems to know this as well as those who came before.

Quote:
Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials:
"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

Quote:
Spouted earlier by someone who’s bought the party line hook line and sinker:
For all you pansy ass appeasers to Islamic Fascism...

The sociopathic system really does work...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, July 1, 2006 2:51 AM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
Soupcatcher,

I would add one thing to your analysis. George Bush has a strong desire to make his mark on history. He wants to be remembered as one of the greats. I think this desire drives a lot of his foreign policy.

BINGO! And right on, SoupC.

Let’s not forget Rummy-Wummy either. He is a mustache-twisting, monger if I have ever seen one. Just look at some of these guy’s mannerisms while their in the “pulpit”. Scary…

It is about political survival and power mainstay. Most of these puppet masters have been in the game a long time and waited out the cycles to get to point where their ideals can be forcefully implemented. …and this means attacking where they can or want; not where they should. A stagnant, old plan thought up years ago and “gosh darn it we’re gonna show them”. This means an aged view of the world power picture and means neglecting our real issues.

Fear doesn’t seem to work as well in the middle east as it does here, until the bomb is on their doorstep. …and we still don’t see the expected results. The Admin. truly believes that history will show that, if not for them, America would be out of resources and out of power in a short time. …or they are the last crusade. Hard to tell. It seems the American people are an afterthought.

Oil is Oil… Gold is Gold… Power is Power… Cronies are Cronies…

And RUE, it is a shame that IRAQ is Big and FEMA is little. Not saying this is your view. I watched FEMA help thousands in eastern NC during Floyd of ’99. People in the northeast are gonna be needing them as well. This problem is not gonna go away. So, to the topic, THEY DON’T CARE. They have an “Ark” called unlimited money and resources.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, July 1, 2006 3:47 PM

PIRATEJENNY

I do think that that Bush and his administration based on everything they've done and have been planning do have malicious intent toward the American public.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, July 1, 2006 6:06 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I was just referencing the magnitude of the lies. Iraq - WMD, imminent threat, mushroom cloud. FEMA - no one could have known, heckuva job.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, July 2, 2006 3:02 AM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I was just referencing the magnitude of the lies. Iraq - WMD, imminent threat, mushroom cloud. FEMA - no one could have known, heckuva job.

Understood...

It just triggered something in my cobweb. If only we could disguise environmental scientists as macro-economists.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, July 3, 2006 10:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Veteran:
Soupcatcher,

I would add one thing to your analysis. George Bush has a strong desire to make his mark on history. He wants to be remembered as one of the greats. I think this desire drives a lot of his foreign policy.

Excellent point, Veteran. I guess we've all learned, from the past many years, who he considers as "the greats". I'm pretty sure Bush and I have diametrically opposed views of what makes a leader great.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 6:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
I guess we've all learned, from the past many years, who he considers as "the greats".

The Tellytubbies (on coke)?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 6:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
The Tellytubbies (on coke)?

*snort*

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 8:36 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

I somewhat agree with HKCavalier - that people want to think of themselves as good, and nobody but crazy people think of themselves as evil.

But I also agree with Rue, that some people in positions of power knowingly do hurful things and don't care...

to a point. But there's still justifications to be made. They can be as simple as thinking
'if I weren't doing it somebody else would be
- if I weren't raping the rain forests, or allowing american companies to do so, then some foreign industry wo8uld get the jump, etc., and that would be worse. If I make some of the money off the operation, I will at least use that for good.'

Or 'i'm just trying to provide the best life I can for my family.'

and then there's that elite mentality of some rich people, that doesn't really see the poor as people, and therefore actions hurting the poor aren't particularly evil.

The eradication of the poor in a city might even be a good thing with the right justification - 'the city was beyond decadence, beyond help - etc. Now we can actually rebuild it.'

When no earthly rational really fits, then the biblical ones can apply - "sodam gomorrha," etc.

For that matter, this mentality believes that the masses really cannot govern themselves, and that our state would fail if the smart and powerful didn't manipulate them. They don't really believe in democracy, but must believe that the ruse of democracy is either a useful tool, or an unfortunate inconvenience that must be entertained.

Under their thumb, they may even think the masses are better off, in some abstact notion of inevitable anarchy without the powers that be keeping the status quo.

I'm sure they've all lied themselves into believing their own bullshit...that's what makes them so effective. (With the exception of Bush. I think Bush truly believes whatever they tell him he should believe- it's not a lie becuase he doesn't have to do any double think on his own. that would make him amazingly convincing if he understood the things he was saying).

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 2:46 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Righteous- No matter which attribute you care to measure, people fall on a curve. That goes for height, weight, IQ, metabolic rate, and even "morality". As hard as it is to envision, there ARE some people that have no identification or sympathy with others. No remorse touches their dealings. They don't think of themsevels as good OR evil because they think ONLY of themselves. They're called sociopaths, and while some people are trained into it by abuse, others are just born that way. SO when you generalize about the nature of those in power, just remember that it is a somewhat self-selected group and that the selection process seems to favor those on the far end of "morality" the bell curve. (Or as a previous posted said, anyone who wants to be President shouldn't be.)

---------------------------------
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, July 4, 2006 4:43 PM