Private Little War or Oh no, another reilgious thread. by dreamtrove

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Private Little War or Oh no, another reilgious thread.

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Thursday, August 17, 2006 16:10
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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 5:53 PM

Okay, I just couldn't find the thread I was looking for and there doesn't seem to be a freaking search engine which is a pain clobber me silly if I'm wrong, but anyway.

What's this thread about?

Good question. God religion.

Nanite,

read the book. revelations. antimason has a point, there's a lot of public policy in there.

Antimason,

I was ranting at you about something in a thread I can no longer find about how evil made out of defining good, but here it is much better than I can say it.

From the Tao te Ching:

When beauty is abstracted
Then ugliness has been implied;
When good is abstracted
Then evil has been implied.

Or from a different translation:

When beauty is discovered, ugliness appears; When good is discovered, evil appears.

Which is what I mean. You've created a great evil, by defining the ultimate good. I would argue that it is not love of money which is the root of all evil, but hatred of evil which is the root of all evil. If you do not know good, there is no evil. Some things are the way, some are sage, they are, perhaps, 'good' in a lighter sense, as in that which creates life. If we define that as the way, then that which destroys life is not the way.

But if we go to the extreme and define our God as good, and further, his people as good, then we have created evil in everyone else. Such a cycle can never end.

I know this is a clash of faiths, sure, but you get what I'm getting at, does this make sense?

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:31 PM

ANTIMASON

well..alright

i realize that my language comes off strong on these boards..mainly because my 2 cents usually involve prophecy, which just sounds full of rhetoric. but if you knew me personally, i am the last person to judge anyone; i really take to heart the verse "do not judge, or you will be judged".

but understand where im coming from, im trying to argue an angle, as a Christian, who is already in disagreement with mainstream Christianity, let alone convential political thought.

my message is "wake up, AMERICA IS MYSTERY BABYLON, which means we are nearing the end, and we are the ones to be decieved by the beast, the false prophet and the antiChrist." i feel this is a vital message, since it is not a position ever offered by mainstream news, therefore its the Bush Christians(its an easy label)who are being decieved by THE LIE that is spoken of in prophecy.

just trying to explain the reasoning for all this is mind numbing; and frankly, im tired of bringing up the occult secret societies, and im sure you all are too. so please consider then what im saying to you "they are real, they worship Lucifer, and they recieve power through him to achieve his goal to establish the reign of antiChrist". you can debate whether God and Satan really exist, but there is no debating that they believe Satan exists, and are fullfilling his will

and as a consequence, even the most faithful, God fearing Christian will be decieved, because they, ultimately, chose to support an agenda which was antiChristian. the purpose of the Tribulation is to weed out the faithful from the non, through persecution by Satan and the world. in those days God will judge the hearts of men, not merely their words...

i wish those of you who were agnostic, or athiest or whatever else out there would do the same... otherwise, im forced to repeat myself again about Jesus' doctrines. the Bible is complicated, it takes a lot of reading, and studying, and constant reference checks to make sense of it... so to denegrate it, without even actually studying it to grasp its intricacies is insulting

you can disbelieve in God..but accept that many of these things ARE HAPPENING, and this is the best explanation being given

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Wednesday, August 16, 2006 11:54 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Okay, I just couldn't find the thread I was looking for and there doesn't seem to be a freaking search engine which is a pain clobber me silly if I'm wrong, but anyway.

You can use google append "site: www.fireflyfans.net" to the front of the search string.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 6:08 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
i am the last person to judge anyone

Almost spit my coffee out when I read this line.

Fortunately an obscure prophesy predicted you would someday write those words as a sign of the coming end of days and Stay-Puff Marshmellow Man...so I was prepared.

And being the last to judge is just like being last in anything else...

And the first shall be last and the last shall be first. But me, I judge people first, last, and in between. That way I'm covered and its part of my job.

H

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 6:51 AM

DREAMTROVE

Antimason,

My faith has no god in it, but I appreciate your viewpoint. I think it's well thought out and perceptive. I think it's possible that the prophesy is coming to pass through a deliberate sell-fulling means, ie. someone sees a change to get a lot of follwers that way. But that doesn't mean that you aren't right.

The curious thing is that both sides think that they are the descendants of the children of Israel, and the Nazis, who oppose the whole thing, think that *they* are the true children of israel. I'm waiting for someone to come out with a big 666, because i think that's the whole story. If god is truly good, then the whole book of revelations is a test. I think this is the lie, the false prophet, etc., that the whole thing is a test. Remember, devil can quote scripture, right? so if you do have a benificent god, then he's not going to be the god of revelations, and jesus won't be the jesus of revelations, because those guys are evil on a scale that makes the nazis look like a puppetshow.

The character who fights for the people of earth and the trees and the fishes, and all that is flawed, and human and natural, is actually the voice of good, the voice of reason in the story. The white knights creating mind control faggotopia ie new jerusalem, are the evil bastards. They kill the people of earth, the destroy the forests, kill the animals, lay waste to the fields, empty the fishes in the sea, steal all the wealth of the world and and silence all dissent permanently. This is probably the most extreme potential evil ever envisioned.

Yet everyone wants to be on that side. The Muslims think they're guy, Nasrallah, is the return of Jesus of Nazareth. Israel obviously thinks that it's Israel (is it? it's a new power, named israel, but is it Israel?) But everyone actually *believes* they are on, quite literally, the side of the angels, and those would be the angels who brought forth seven golden vials filled with the wrath of God.

It seems to me that there's something directly in front of our eyes that no one is saying a big naked emperor like the fact that no one in the media is saying the obvious that Lebanon was a functioning society with malice towards none that Israel destroyed out of pure greed. It's obvious, it's right in front of us, it's pure unchecked evil, and no one, not on the left or the right, is saying it. It's all show us how much you love Israel, go on, who's you're daddy?

Then if we think it through, there are two sides in the end, the side of New Jerusalem, and the side of Earth. Now if someone is into witchcraft etc., then they already know they're on the side of the Earth, and in a simplistic reading, that means the side of the devil.

But the two sides we see here are the prophet and false prophet, and sure, what if Nasrallah is the Jesus, and we're duped? But I think that either the whole is a test and we are supposed to use our faith, whatever faith that may be, to see us through, or God is evil, pure and simple.

I think that it's an intresting thought that to the ancient hebrews, when the cult of Yhwh was first born, it was viewed as evil. There was a strong feeling by the woshippers of El that Moses was supplanting God with perhaps a new God or perhaps a very old and evil one.

I find the whole subject fascinating, and the situation tremendously complicated, and really rather important, since the cult of Yhwh now has become christianity, islam, and judaism, which now encompass most of the globe.

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 6:52 AM

DREAMTROVE

Citizen,

That's clever. I didn't think of that. Subpages on sites arent' always indexed on google. but it might work, it's a good idea.

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 7:15 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Hero:

Yup. Everybody better watch out for the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man.

---

Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 8:20 AM

ANTIMASON

well...heres the thing Dreamtrove. the tribulation, the persecution of the two witnesses(jews and christians) and the four horsemen of the apocolypse, these events are all done by antiChristian forces. when it says that 1/3 of the population will die, it is at the hands of the beast and his conquest for global control, and his will to wipe out the influence of the believers. Gods wrath begins between the 6th and 7th seal, after a majority of "witnesses" have been murdered and persecuted

the purpose of the tribulation is to seperate the faithful witnesses of Jesus, from those who cannot recognize his word from Satans; the whole mark of the beast situation...which is the great diception.

for example...the Nazis werent CHristians, because their goal was to murder and destroy the Jews(Gods chosen people) among other things. the KKK thinks they are Christians, even though they have clearly adopted heretical occult practices, and discriminate against anyone non-white. in Christianity, to be a martyr for Christ is a privelage, since we believe Jesus died for us; in Islam, martrydom is even better when you physically take out an enemy, but Jesus doesnt support murder, in any way. anti, means "instead of" ..that is precisely what theyre doing, worshipping a false Christ, an "instead of messiah". now the Illuminati however, when they say "in God we trust" they know their messiah is Lucifer, they are merely decieving the rest of us

Satans message has always been that God(yahweh) is the true devil, and that he himself is the bringer of truth and knowledge. this is what the Sumerians believed too, that Enki was the good guy, and the other was bad. the Bible says though that man has been decieved by angels, and fell into sin and mortality through Satan and these forces; so which is it

Jesus says "do no be decieved; for many will come in my name claiming "i am the Christ"..but do not believe them" this is because the whole world will know when he comes, as there will be signs in the heavens, and we will be transformed or redeemed in an instant*. Jesus says that prior* to his coming the earth will be under greater distress than ever before, and never to be equaled again..and if God were not to intercede, all life would be destroyed; not by Jesus, but through the lawlessness of the system of the beast

i believe this is the NWO agenda, because of its occult underlyings

Israel will be fooled into believing the antiChrist is their prophesied messiah; they denied Jesus when he came, so will be decieved when they are shown the lying signs and wonders of the false prophet and antiChrist. the false prophet may be the final Pope, who endorses this false Christianity, and so decieves the elect

when Jesus returns, he is all conquering, and defeats evil and death forever. the Jews, when antiChrist comes, will perceive him to be this fullfillment, because he to will be all conquering, and will superficially protect Israel with an agreement, and his control of the system of the beast; which is why it is said "who is like the beast? who can make war with him".

the Israel we see today is a foreshadowing of what is to come...i think its curious that American Christians are Israels biggest allies, and yet America is mystery Babylon..it just proves that todays judaism and Christianity, in world politics, are realy anti-Christianity in a way

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 10:22 AM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
well...heres the thing Dreamtrove. the tribulation, the persecution of the two witnesses(jews and christians) and the four horsemen of the apocolypse, these events are all done by antiChristian forces.

Real life or in the story?

Jews were persecuted be christians. Nazis were chirstians, they even had the pope backing them up. Besides, christians have been persecuting non-chrisitans forever, and jews since at least the 10th c.

The four horsemen ride forth into battle bearing the will of the four beasts who sit behind the throne of the man who overcomes, who ushers in the dawn of the second coming as comanding by the angels of the lord, I don't think they're anti- christian forces

Quote:
when it says that 1/3 of the population will die, it is at the hands of the beast and his conquest for global control, and his will to wipe out the influence of the believers.

Not how I recall it, and I've read it a few times, I'll check again. I believe the angels bring the rules of chistiandom seven golden vials filled with the wrath of God, and send out eagles to rain fire on the Earth, and all of this, it's on the side of God. The beast resists, and rebels, and defies the Word of God, but I don't think he's on a massive campaign to conquer the Earth, or Ms. XES, or Hannah as I like to call her (X was an H and it's six letters in each name X----- E----- S-----, or probably transliterally, H----- E----- S-----)

Quote:
Gods wrath begins between the 6th and 7th seal, after a majority of "witnesses" have been murdered and persecuted the purpose of the tribulation is to seperate the faithful witnesses of Jesus, from those who cannot recognize his word from Satans; the whole mark of the beast situation...which is the great diception.

But the angels are servants opf God.

Quote:
for example...the Nazis werent CHristians,

Unfortunate fact about followers, is you don't get to choose them. Nazis thought that they were the children of Israel and that the jews were the canaanites. Since then, science has proved them wrong, and ironically, the palestinians by % DNA are the closest to the original children of Israel. But I digress. Nazis were christians, as I said, they had the pope on their side. And they really did believe. Not to mention, there are plenty of folks in the OT who are just as bad. But everyone has bad company, the Nazis were also socialists, but say that on this forum and there is hell to pay. (toupe?) The govt. that enslaved blacks, killed indians and dropped the bombs on japan were americans, which doesn't make me happy, but it's the truth.

Quote:
because their goal was to murder and destroy the Jews(Gods chosen people) among other things. the KKK thinks they are Christians, even though they have clearly adopted heretical occult practices, and discriminate against anyone non-white.

All of this is nitpicking. Who is really a christian anyway? Christ? Sophie? I think that the whole religion is corrupted by the fact that it includes the OT which is in large part a concession to the then jews to win followers and maybe if it had ever been pure, it would be much much smaller than it is today as a following, like the size of Zoroastrianism or something, but it would be pure. But now, most of the megachurches out there are spewing OT lessons like there's no tomorrow *(which they actually believe there isn't.)

Quote:
in Christianity, to be a martyr for Christ is a privelage, since we believe Jesus died for us; in Islam, martrydom is even better when you physically take out an enemy, but Jesus doesnt support murder, in any way. anti, means "instead of" ..that is precisely what theyre doing, worshipping a false Christ, an "instead of messiah". now the Illuminati however, when they say "in God we trust" they know their messiah is Lucifer, they are merely decieving the rest of us

anti- Look up anti- at Dictionary.com
L. anti- from Gk. anti "against, opposite, instead of,"

argh. Okay. on the whole muslim thing, sure, but it's not muslims who are carpet bombing the region, it's us and israel.
On the illuminati, they opposed the roman catholic church, or did, in 1400. If you're a protestant, you're actually part of the legacy of the illuminati. ML was the split that happened, but the illuminati laid the groundwork for creating an institution which was not the RCC. At the time, the RCC was pervasive in all parts of society, and no splitted could have gotten away with anything else. It would be like creating a separate govt. inside of the US.

Quote:
Satans message has always been that God(yahweh) is the true devil, and that he himself is the bringer of truth and knowledge.

That's probably true, he's probably right. But I'm not a satanist, I don't believe in the religion at all, as Hero said, I'm a librarian, which is to say, I follow the teachings of a chinese librarian. I just view it as a story, a work of fiction, which is important because it's fan club is almost as large as Harry Potter's and much more heavily armed. But from the outside, it would seem (historical evidence would suggest) that Mr. Satan is right. Much of the OT was copied from fables of other gods, and re-written as Yhwh's. (The keepers of the flame, vestal virgins, are actually a part of the faith of Baal the fire god, and are following a tradition echoing his seven actual daughters) Some of those stories appear multiple times with different character's names. Reading the bible carefully, you notice the redundancies.

"this is what the Sumerians believed too, that Enki was the good guy, and the other was bad. the Bible says though that man has been decieved by angels, and fell into sin and mortality through Satan and these forces; so which is it"

Sure, again, makes sense. Probably what happened.

Quote:
Jesus says "do no be decieved; for many will come in my name claiming "i am the Christ"..but do not believe them" this is because the whole world will know when he comes, as there will be signs in the heavens, and we will be transformed or redeemed in an instant*. Jesus says that prior* to his coming the earth will be under greater distress than ever before, and never to be equaled again..and if God were not to intercede, all life would be destroyed; not by Jesus, but through the lawlessness of the system of the beast

If you believe all that, but isn't is a never-ending cycle? I mean, if the bible is lying, and it's written by Satan, then it's Satan telling you not to believe God's claim that he's actually God. All of which doesn't touch on the divinity of Christ, who at the very least, really walked the Earth.

Quote:
i believe this is the NWO agenda, because of its occult underlyings

The NWO is about taking over the world. I think it's part of a communist plot, and Bush's supporters, and Clinton's et al are in fact all shachtmanites, and Max Shachtman was the top Troskyite of the American Communist Party. So I'm being quite literal here. This is why neither Bush nor Clinton ever opposed China on anything. They don't even really oppose NK, which even China sometimes (though rarely) does.

Quote:
Israel will be fooled into believing the antiChrist is their prophesied messiah; they denied Jesus when he came, so will be decieved when they are shown the lying signs and wonders of the false prophet and antiChrist. the false prophet may be the final Pope, who endorses this false Christianity, and so decieves the elect

Or they're being played like everyone else.

Quote:
when Jesus returns, he is all conquering, and defeats evil and death forever. the Jews, when antiChrist comes, will perceive him to be this fullfillment, because he to will be all conquering, and will superficially protect Israel with an agreement, and his control of the system of the beast; which is why it is said "who is like the beast? who can make war with him".

I thought he was a general who won the war so that god's side could set up the homotopia, and then the rest of the world reeled in chaos for a thousand years.

Quote:
the Israel we see today is a foreshadowing of what is to come...i think its curious that American Christians are Israels biggest allies, and yet America is mystery Babylon..it just proves that todays judaism and Christianity, in world politics, are realy anti-Christianity in a way

Interesting idea. I think there are a lot of well meanign christians who are being played. But the players aren't devil worshipers, they worship nothing at all but themselves.

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 2:17 PM

ANTIMASON

i think your confusion DT is that youve accepted the tribulation myth perpetrated by those who believe America and Israel are Gods chosen people, fighting the forces of evil Islam. those who look at prophecy that way are being taken by Satans end time diceptions

there is a big difference in interpretrations here, since i see America as an occult stronghold which becomes mystery Babylon; not the other way around.

the NWO conspiracy is key to understanding the angle im giving you. Satan, and his angels, are at work planning for the reign of their messiah, antiChrist, prior to Jesus' return. the Christian forces that you see prominant in the world, if they are pushing this agenda, are actually anti-Christian. im not sure if people are understanding this...but Babylon is Gods enemy; mystery Babylon is America!

it is said "many antichrists have entered into the world"..well, just as the Nazis, believing in the occult is to believe a perversion of christianity

Lucifers goal has always been to pervert and twist the doctrines of God, and that is precisely what your seeing; and freemasonry is a perfect example, as they have been decieved into worshipping idols, and deny the deity of Jesus. thats how it starts.. keep in mind, Satan has angels wich arrive during the tribulation to lead man astray

this is the flaw in your translations i believe, because i constantly study scriptures and the occult, and i see no discrepencies whatsoever; in fact, i only grow stronger in my faith. the conventional view of scripture is flawed, because its seen through a lens that has America as benevolent; yet its role becomes the opposite. the catholic church, the pope, the American churches, will all be decieved leading up to this time; that means the general accepted view, held by the common man is a diception.

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Thursday, August 17, 2006 4:10 PM

DREAMTROVE

Antimason

Here's the snag. I'm from the same basic political stripe as you, paleoconservative, I think Bush is a loon. We have a similar world view, war bad, peace good, death bad, life good, etc. I grew up in an non religious family. At some point I decided that it's better to believe in something than nothing, so I started studying various religions. I got to the Tao, and I said "hey, this guy tells it like it is."

But when I look at the overall situation, and sure, no problem with Jesus, the man, great guy. But I look at the rest of this, my temptation would be this:

Masons: good guys.
Secret societies: good. necessary to overcome evil power structures, without them, supreme evil would reign. yay them.
Pagans: good guys. protect the earth, worship it , sure, a little flakey at times, sure, but basically good.
Chrisitans: basically good. The more attention they pay to christ directly, the better.
etc.
when I come to revelations I think whoa. Okay, whoever this beast is, that's the side you want to be on. Because these other guys are evil.

Quote:
i think your confusion DT is that youve accepted the tribulation myth perpetrated by those who believe America and Israel are Gods chosen people, fighting the forces of evil Islam.

This is what the new christians believe. I don't believe any of it, I think I said this is probably just a political set up.

What I believe: http://www.taoteching.org

Quote:
those who look at prophecy that way are being taken by Satans end time diceptions

sure whatever.

Quote:
there is a big difference in interpretrations here, since i see America as an occult stronghold which becomes mystery Babylon; not the other way around.

I think this word is being abused.

Occult: The study of Truth, or rather the deeper truth that exists beyond the surface

I think America is a stronghold of Christianity. The occult is probably good guys. The wikipedia page had references to Alistair Crowley and folks like that. He's a good guy. I'd follow him.

Quote:
the NWO conspiracy is key to understanding the angle im giving you.

NWO is the structure of a global revolution. I get the connection, I'm not missing it, but NWO is a federal one world state, now with a particular structure, and if the original NWO was conceived of this bavarian illuminati or the rhodes-milner circle is not really the issue. It's not that all secret societies are evil, it's that this NWO in the hands of these people is evil. This is an evil idea, very similar to the evil idea of new jerusalem, a world in which only the chosen matter and dissent is not possible.

The refence was not lost on me, I just don't think it's as simple as that.

Quote:
Satan, and his angels, are at work planning for the reign of their messiah, antiChrist, prior to Jesus' return. the Christian forces that you see prominant in the world, if they are pushing this agenda, are actually anti-Christian. im not sure if people are understanding this...but Babylon is Gods enemy; mystery Babylon is America!

I don't think christians are running the show here. I suspect it's a cooperative effort and they aren't even a player in it. There are three players, one is a commie-trostky NWO effort for MEFTA, one is a new israelite manical vision, and the third is oil oil oil. Actually, there are many more players globally, but in Iraq/palestine, this is the team.

Quote:
it is said "many antichrists have entered into the world"..well, just as the Nazis, believing in the occult is to believe a perversion of christianity

Hmm. what a curious notion. It depends on your definition. Certainly some of the early neopagans had a religion far too similar to christianity, for what it was supposed to be. I think you need a new word. If occult is just a secret society, then there are many which aren't christian at all, but a corrupted christianity, I think that's what the nazis had all right, hmm, you may have a point here.

Quote:
Lucifers goal has always been to pervert and twist the doctrines of God, and that is precisely what your seeing; and freemasonry is a perfect example, as they have been decieved into worshipping idols, and deny the deity of Jesus. thats how it starts.. keep in mind, Satan has angels wich arrive during the tribulation to lead man astray

lucifer only exists in the minds of christians and thus can only act through their actions.
if he combat's yhwh, then maybe he's right, yhwh is the most sinister character ever to appear in fact or fiction.
(I deny the deity of jesus, but he's still a great guy, no one is a god.)

Quote:
this is the flaw in your translations i believe, because i constantly study scriptures and the occult, and i see no discrepencies whatsoever; in fact, i only grow stronger in my faith. the conventional view of scripture is flawed, because its seen through a lens that has America as benevolent; yet its role becomes the opposite. the catholic church, the pope, the American churches, will all be decieved leading up to this time; that means the general accepted view, held by the common man is a diception.

there are scriptures?

I'm pretty familiar with the european cultural tradition, the clandestine order is an ancient an very european way of doing things, which christianity is not.

Life long, I'm always asking myself if I'm on the right side, I always have to keep an objective open mind to try to see if maybe I'm missing something. Historicall, America as a force is probably evil, but generally only when it's controlled by democrats. (or bush, well cheney, who's really a democrat, and oh yeah, if you want to attack this remark, don't bother, it's a waste of time.) But America as an idea is good, and probably like christianity, it only becomes evil when corrupted.

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