Are too many of ours dying over there? by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Are too many of ours dying over there?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:13
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VIEWED: 1824
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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:46 AM

Just a poll: Are too many of our service men and women getting killed in Iraq, or is it acceptable losses for what we are achieving in Iraq, and the region in general.
Discussion optional.

I say too many.

Simple Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:50 AM

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN

I say that it is far too many especially since we haven't seemed to achieve much of anything as of late.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:06 PM

SIMONWHO

The casualty rate for the troops in Iraq (hey, Brits are there too you know) is very very low. Compared to most other wars in recent history, they're incredibly low.

However, when you rate that against what has been "achieve", then yeah, they're too high.

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 1:42 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
(hey, Brits are there too you know)

I thought 'our' would cover that...

Limey descendant Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 1:47 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

what we are achieving in Iraq, and the region in general.

Since I assume that you're talking about positive acheivments, what exactly would those be? Just curious as I have yet to hear of any.

----
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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:28 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Since I assume that you're talking about positive acheivments, what exactly would those be? Just curious as I have yet to hear of any.

You know, freedom, capitalism, the end of terrorism....what Bush said....the stragedy.

Chrisisall

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:09 PM

MISBEHAVEN

I'd say way too many as well:

U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD: 2632
Reported U.S. Deaths Pending DoD Confirmation: 6
Total 2638
DoD Confirmation List
Latest Coalition Fatality: Aug 30, 2006

Coalition Deaths Confirmed:

UK - 115
IT - 32
UKR - 18
POL - 17
BUL - 13
SP - 11
DK - 4
SAL - 4
SLO - 3
THA - 2
AUS - 2
NL - 2
EST - 2
ROM - 2
LAT - 1
HUN - 1
KAZ - 1

US Troops Wounded:
Official - 19,890
Estimate - 20,000 - 48,100

"The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation."
-Bertrand Russell

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:14 PM

EVILDINOSAUR

since it has yet to be made clear exactly what we're doing there, yes too many are dying

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:40 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by misbehaven:
I'd say way too many as well:

U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD: 2632
Reported U.S. Deaths Pending DoD Confirmation: 6
Total 2638
DoD Confirmation List
Latest Coalition Fatality: Aug 30, 2006

Coalition Deaths Confirmed:

UK - 115
IT - 32
UKR - 18
POL - 17
BUL - 13
SP - 11
DK - 4
SAL - 4
SLO - 3
THA - 2
AUS - 2
NL - 2
EST - 2
ROM - 2
LAT - 1
HUN - 1
KAZ - 1
-Bertrand Russell

That makes 2,862 official deaths total (assuming my calculating skills aren't in error). So, I'm going to have to agree with everyone else (is it everyone else so far? Wow.).

---

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:14 PM

POPS

i'm from australia and i thought we had only had one soilder killed

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:15 PM

JOSSISAGOD

Counting the service men and women that are in Afganistan and Iraq, I would say FAR,FAR too many. Does anyone wonder why the only big terrorist attack that happened under Clinton was the Oklahoma City bombing(which in itself was a terrible shame)? I think it's because Clinton ignored Osama. I see Osama as a troll, he only attacks when we give him attention. I think somehow he knew he could get a rise out of Bush Jr. so he attacked. It's a weird way of looking at it, but it's what I've thought since President Bush was elected in 2000(and Re-elected in 2005).

Fe'nos Tol,
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:02 PM

SIGMANUNKI

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:

You know, freedom, capitalism, the end of terrorism....what Bush said....the stragedy.

Chrisisall

LOL

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:42 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

The United States' govt's Dept of Veterans Affairs reports 180,000 US Gulf War soldiers are DEAD, and over 400,000 are now paid disability pensions, during this 15-year non-stop war.
www.traprockpeace.org
www.gulfwarvets.com

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Thursday, August 31, 2006 3:01 AM

DREAMTROVE

PN

Last time you quoted an absurd statistic it was the 1.6 million civilians, and you turned out to be right.

In a world where the official media refuses to back from it's absurd position on made up statistics (everyone who has dug anywhere knows this) then the alternative media has free reign on what to say, they could just make things up. But I suspect it's not.

Does this include Iraqis that fought on our side?

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Thursday, August 31, 2006 4:54 AM

DAYVE

If by "Too Many of Ours..." you mean the human of the species... i would say yes, one is too many.

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Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:00 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Just a poll: Are too many of our service men and women getting killed in Iraq, or is it acceptable losses for what we are achieving in Iraq, and the region in general.
Discussion optional.

I say too many.

Simple Chrisisall

No such thing as an exceptable loss. Especially when there is no valid reason to be there!

Oh sorry- to answer the question is yes.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:16 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Please bear in mind that even the official counts are rife with little rigs to keep the count down.

For example...

Soldiers who died en-route to medical services.
Soldiers who died as a result of wounds, or complications.
Soldiers killed by friendly fire, accidents (even such caused by IED), disease or heatstroke.

Any manner they can use to avoid the KIA count, they will use, and due to this, some boys have even been cheated out of the little strips of cloth and metal that are supposed to make the parents feel better when the dirt is shovelled over thier kid.

So definately keep in mind that the military prefers to give only the straight KIA figures, which are usually on average about a third of the actuals.

Just something to keep in mind.

-Frem

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Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:25 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Gonna have to go with Dayve and FMF on this one.

Thought about going over the wire to make sure more come back.

But for now I'll continue with care packages and letters from home.

Wear red on Friday's as a show of support for friends and family.

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Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:37 AM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
PN

Last time you quoted an absurd statistic it was the 1.6 million civilians, and you turned out to be right.

In a world where the official media refuses to back from it's absurd position on made up statistics (everyone who has dug anywhere knows this) then the alternative media has free reign on what to say, they could just make things up. But I suspect it's not.

Does this include Iraqis that fought on our side?

That stat is ridiculous. CNN.com has the picture, age, etc.. Of every soldier "killed". If my son was killed and he was not on that list, there would be some kinda ruckus being made on my part. Now, add in thousands more. Listen...hear the crickets? What does that tell you? That is the true figure. Come on people you sound like PN. Must be nice to be blinded by bias.

Well, it's true.

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Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:30 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
PN

Last time you quoted an absurd statistic it was the 1.6 million civilians, and you turned out to be right.

In a world where the official media refuses to back from it's absurd position on made up statistics (everyone who has dug anywhere knows this) then the alternative media has free reign on what to say, they could just make things up. But I suspect it's not.

Does this include Iraqis that fought on our side?

180,000 is 10% of the number of Iraqis genocided by USA and UK, so that's a reasonable sacrifice, er, statistic.

It includes US citizens only. This figure does not include 10,000s of illegal aliens employed as US soldiers who died in battle in Iraq and soon afterwards. Over 50,000 illegal aliens are now stationed in the US military, hoping for US citizenship before they die. This figure does not include CIA "contractors" like Blackwater USA, which is run by Jewish CIA kingpin Cofer Black, the Butcher of New Orleans.

The Pentagon's and Media Mafia's figure of 2,000 deaths never includes soldiers who don't instantly die on the battlefield. If they die in an ambulance or hospital, then "they don't count".

The 180,000 figure does include all forms of death, such as car crashes in USA, but when a soldier is physically and mentally disabled with a terminal disease, that becomes a factor causing the crash. For example, I'm diagnosed with the same disease that composes "Gulf War Syndrome", which I aquired from my wife's vaccines or from working on nukes in US Air Force. The soldiers I worked with also got this same disease. My symptoms include loss of use of my arms and legs due to rigor mortis, which you aren't supposed to get until AFTER you die. On those days of bad symptoms, I can't drive a vehicle, or a get a flare up after driving a vehicle. So car crash deaths in USA are directly caused by the Gulf War.

The Vietnam Wars allegedly only murdered 58,000 US soldiers. But the real number is 350,000, including Agent Orange Friendly Fire deaths.

The purpose of these "undeclared wars" (an oxymoron) is to destroy the US military and destroy USA. The military vaccines are sabotaged. "Depleted" Uranium is radioactive for 45-billion years, with gamma-ray, x-ray, beta-particle and alpha radiation, and kills more US soldiers than an enemy army ever could. US Govt sells WMDs to all our enemies since WW1, for use to kill US soldiers. During Iran-Contra, Bush Sr illegally sold missiles to Iran, which Lebanon reportedly used to slaughter the Israeli soldiers this month, who were only following Bush Jr's illegal orders to invade Lebanon as a diversionary tactic. No US soldiers are allowed to defend the US border, and 30-million criminal invaders are now inside USA, with their public goal of overthrowing USA for the profit of billionaires in Mexico and trillionaires in USA and Europe. The US Govt perped the terrorist massacres of US citizens on 9/11/2001, and FBI and Dick Cheney admit on Govt websites that Usama Bin Laden had nothing to do with 9/11, which is why he has never been indicted for that crime. Usama was quoted by CNN saying he had nothing to do with 9/11.

I produced many TV shows reporting these facts, and my websites simply cache the Media Mafia's reported stories on these facts, which they report once then are never repeated again.

The 180,000 statistic is reported by Major Doug Rocci PhD, US Army, who wrote the Pentagon's DU cleanup manuals in Iraq. Most of his military crewmembers are dead from cancer, and he has cancer now. You can read the Top Secret US Army DU manuals at:
www.traprockpeace.org/depleted_uranium.html

Most US military bases have been closed down since Gulf War #1, so it's even harder to keep track of soldiers who are sick and dying. My last base, RAF Upper Heyford in England, is now a billion-dollar parking lot. I wonder how many of my co-workers are dead, since i can't track any of them down using the reunion websites.

I'm still trying to find the actual VA weblinks for this 180,000 stat, which is hidden in plain sight on US Govt servers and published reports.

The disability stat is published by US Census in 2000:

Quote:

"Disabled Veterans Receiving Compensation: 1980 to 2000. Represents veterans receiving compensation for service-connected disabilities. Persian Gulf: 325,000."
—Section 10 - National Defense and Veterans Affairs, U.S. Census Bureau, Statistical Abstract of the United States: 2001
www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/01statab/defense.pdf

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Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:13 AM

FREDGIBLET

I'm going to take the unpopular position of saying that we don't have too many dead, given the type of war we are fighting I am actually a little surprised at how few are dying. On the other hand we definitely have too many physical and emotional cripples coming back, which can actually be seen as worse than the dead.

P.S. Since someone will probably take my post to mean this I just want to make sure you know that I don't mean that we should get rid of the cripples or anything like that. I just mean that the crippled are a much larger burden (and some might say a greater tragedy) than the dead.

P.P.S. That didn't come out right either but whatever.

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