Quote:

---

Originally posted by misbehaven:

It's already that time again. Tola...tera....ter....totalitarians.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
And once again the humourless respond.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Causal:
Because goodness knows that you've never stumbled over a word, stuttered or mispronounced. Not ever. Never ever. No.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Phoenixship:
All Bush has to do is say what his master bids him to. How hard is that?

I can not believe that we are still having this discussion. If a man cannot speak properly and clearly on the spur of the moment, he's just not a good public speaker. If a man cannot read words placed in front of him, word's he's no doubt rehearsed, he's a frickin MORON. He simply does not clearly understand the underlying meaning of what he is saying.

Certain people support Bush for various reasons - he's pro-life, he's conservative, etc., and that's perfectly reasonable. But how can we still be arguing about whether or not he's an idiot? Give up the battle.

The President of America is stupid.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Causal:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Phoenixship:
All Bush has to do is say what his master bids him to. How hard is that?

I can not believe that we are still having this discussion. If a man cannot speak properly and clearly on the spur of the moment, he's just not a good public speaker. If a man cannot read words placed in front of him, word's he's no doubt rehearsed, he's a frickin MORON. He simply does not clearly understand the underlying meaning of what he is saying.

Certain people support Bush for various reasons - he's pro-life, he's conservative, etc., and that's perfectly reasonable. But how can we still be arguing about whether or not he's an idiot? Give up the battle.

The President of America is stupid.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

---

Oh, my goodness! Could it be that another of River/Shadowfly/Kane's alter ego's has surfaced?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Causal:
Yeah, plus member since '04. Sorry, it's just a knee-jerk anymore.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Phoenixship:
Is that your answer?

I know it's impossible to verify, so you'll have to just trust me, but I have only the one screen name. And I hope you're not implying a dearth of Bush detractors, because more and more seem to be popping up all the time.

Seriously, am I wrong? I'm asking sincerely here.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

---

Quote:

---

Nah, there are a lot of Bush detractors. (And I don't really think you're Kane, btw). I am a newly converted Bush detractor, my-own-self (mmm, Firefly-lingo goodness). But I'm not one of the Bush detractors that actually think he's an imbecile--just seriously misguided.

---

Quote:

---

I don't feel that I have to believe that he's the devil incarnate just to disagree with him, and it seems like some people think that if you don't think he's pure evil, you're on his side (which sounds an awful lot like W's "with us, or with the terrorists" thing).

---

Quote:

---

Here are some of the amendments rejected by the House Judiciary Committee at yesterday’s markup of S.256:

- An amendment by John Conyers (D-MI) protecting military personnel from predatory payday lenders;
- An amendment by Mel Watt (D-NC) exempting tuition costs from the expense calculation in the means test;
- An amendment by Adam Schiff (D-CA) protecting people whose bankruptcy is due to identity theft;- - An amendment by Howard Berman (D-CA) protecting bankruptcy filers who file due to medical crises;

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
And once again the humourless respond.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
I read (from insiders) that Bush listens to Cabinet-level meetings in a doughnut state... you know, kind of glazed. That he almost never asks questions unless it has something to do with the invasion/ occupation of some Middle East country (used to be Iraq, now it's Iran).

---

Quote:

---

and never, but NEVER makes a "decision" without first consulting with Cheney in private. Heck, he couldn't even appear before the 9-11 Commission w/o Cheney holding his hand, or debate without box on his back and a bud in his ear. Now THAT'S stupid!

---

Quote:

---

In several recent appearances he appeared either drunk or drugged.

---

Quote:

---

I mean this quite seriously- the info is out there for anyone who digs just a millimeter below the surface. There are very good reasons- not just slips of the tongue - to believe that Bush is both impaired and a sociopath.

---

Quote:

---

There are many people I disagree with, and a few of those I think really are evil.

---

Quote:

---

Bush is evil. But he's not smart enough to be the architect of all of this madness.... he's actually Cheney's sock puppet. I reserve the title "devil incarnate" for Cheney. Bush is one of those hapless cartoon-style minions who just can't help tripping over his own feet (or in this case tongue) once in a while and messing up his master's plans.

---

Quote:

---

I know it's is hard to accept the idea that evil people have taken over the WH, but this Administration has deliberately done everything possible to f*ck over the average American... from tampering with elections to reducing VA benefits to starting a war that requries lots of hapless cannon-fodder to rewriting bankruptcy law (which BTW contains no exceptions for military service, illness or theft)
to shoveling money at the pharmas thru their so-called Medicare drug program and givein more money to the wealthy through tax breaks. I could name about 20 other very specific examples about how you, an average guy, got screwed over and over again over the past 6 years.

---

Quote:

---

NO administration can rack up that kind of record unless they're monsters at their core, seeing the average American as a resource to squeeze and squeeze for the benefit of the wealthy.

---

Quote:

---

Or, as Bush said at a fund-raiser: "This is an impressive crowd - the haves and the have-mores," Some people call you the elites; I call you my base."

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Causal:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Phoenixship:
All Bush has to do is say what his master bids him to. How hard is that?

I can not believe that we are still having this discussion. If a man cannot speak properly and clearly on the spur of the moment, he's just not a good public speaker. If a man cannot read words placed in front of him, word's he's no doubt rehearsed, he's a frickin MORON. He simply does not clearly understand the underlying meaning of what he is saying.

Certain people support Bush for various reasons - he's pro-life, he's conservative, etc., and that's perfectly reasonable. But how can we still be arguing about whether or not he's an idiot? Give up the battle.

The President of America is stupid.

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

---

Oh, my goodness! Could it be that another of River/Shadowfly/Kane's alter ego's has surfaced?

________________________________________________________________________
Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
So you disagree with the policies of the present administration. That makes them evil? When did you become the nation's moral compass?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
There are many people I disagree with, and a few of those I think really are evil.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
BDN, Are you trying to be funny again? You and the Bush apologists simply assert that the lengthy, extensively documented complaints of Bush's many critics are baseless, hateful and arbitrary. Is that all you got? Denial? Is plausible deniability your moral compass?

---

Quote:

---

Signy ain't the nation's moral compass, Signy is Signy's moral compass. What part of freedom of speach don't you understand?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Congratulations!!!!
For the umpteenth post on Bush's grammatical errors, you are the proud new owner of a set of steak knives!

Originally posted by rue:
And once again the humourless respond.

Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
That's not fair Rue. I thought my original post had a modicum of humor. I guess you are of the opinion that you are either for or against the President. Now where have I heard that before?

---

Quote:

---

(1) Now barring alleged voter fraud, (2) a majority of Americans followed their moral compasses (3) in the last two elections and (4) voted the current Administration in. That's the great thing about a democracy, (5) majority rules.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:

So, since the majority didn't vote for Bush in both elections, the majority doesn't pick the president, and the elections were invalid...

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
BDN,
No wonder you identify with Bush. How you could get so many things wrong in two short, simple sentences is truly amazing. Let's count the ways, shall we?

Quote:

---

(1) Now barring alleged voter fraud, (2) a majority of Americans followed their moral compasses (3) in the last two elections and (4) voted the current Administration in. That's the great thing about a democracy, (5) majority rules.

---

(1, 3) Probable massive voter fraud, as in the last two elections, has never been investigated by the government. Voter fraud, if proven, does invalidate an election. (2) Even with probable vote-tampering, the overall majority of Americans voted for Gore. (4) The Gore-Bush election was decided by the Supreme Court. (5) The overall majority vote doesn't decide the presidency in any election - the electoral college does.

So, since the majority didn't vote for Bush in both elections, the majority doesn't pick the president, and the elections were invalid - what was your point, again?

---

Quote:

---

All Bush has to do is say what his master bids him to. How hard is that?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

Quote:

---

All Bush has to do is say what his master bids him to. How hard is that?

---

on a lighter, but Firefly , note,, that's all Nathan, Adam, Alan, Sean, Ron, Morena, Gina, Jewel, and Summer had to do, too.

And they couldn't manage it too well, either.... Check out the gag reels...

---

Quote:

---

If there is documented proof that Gore got more of the popular vote than Bush, why is Bush President?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:

Quote:

---

If there is documented proof that Gore got more of the popular vote than Bush, why is Bush President?

---

Bush popular, total 50,456,002 percent 47.87% Gore popular, total 50,999,897 percent 48.38%
www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0876793.html

DOH!

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Thanks, Signy. I was just so dismayed when I read that BDN didn't know this, and by extention didn't know about the electoral college (maybe if everyone in this country knew what the electoral college actually was, we could have the damn thing abolished once and for all). How are we ever gonna achieve an "informed electorate" at this rate?

---

Quote:

---

And BDN, I don't mean to pick on you. You are by no means alone in not fully understanding the way our government works

---

Quote:

---

if indeed your last post wasn't simply mared by a couple misleading typos, or a simple lapse in memory or something like that). I know some things, but I've learned a lot--learned to care a lot about more about our government in the last five years than I ever did before.

---

Quote:

---

A friend of mine, college educated, very smart, one of the funnier people I know (and I know some hilarious people)--my friend did not know until this year that the Federal Government was not responsible for all the laws in the United States.

(There should really be a :jawdrop: emoticon, don'tcha think?)

---

Quote:

---

I asked a question (see question mark above) and instead of an answer, you offer nothing. Needing closure, I did some research on my own. Thanks Wikipedia. And thanks Signy, I guess, for the kick in the ass to do my own research.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
You may be relieved to know that your being unclear on the often absurd workings of the U.S. government (seeing as you're Canadian and all and therefore did not necessarily sleep through high school civics), causes me no dismay at all. I am in fact, relieved.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
You may be relieved to know that your being unclear on the often absurd workings of the U.S. government (seeing as you're Canadian and all and therefore did not necessarily sleep through high school civics), causes me no dismay at all. I am in fact, relieved.

---

Hey HKCavalier,

I don't think high school civics classes are as widespread as they once were. It would be helpful if we had some high school teachers chime in, but it is my understanding that many high schools have folded the civics portion into the social studies courses and only teach it for a few weeks. If at that. Partly because it is more important to focus on reading and math for the assessment tests than it is to educate students on governance (eta: an emphasis that I disagree with).

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Storymark:
Well, I don't teach social studies, but I'll chime in as a High School Teacher. In my state, New Mexico, students are required to have 3 1/2 credits of Soc. Studies in order to graduate. One must be US history, one must be World History/Geography and one must be Government/Economics (which is generally split 1 semester for each). The remaining 1/2 credit is for NM history.

So, one semester, durring the Senior year, is about all the government education as they get in these parts. Not much, but at least they're given a primer, I suppose.


And yes, this is due in large part to the increased focus on math and reading test scores, thanks to the POS-NCLB act.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Ack! BDN! You are Canadian! Please forgive me, I thought (assumed) you were a fellow countryman. As the youngsters say nowadays, my bad.

You may be relieved to know that your being unclear on the often absurd workings of the U.S. government (seeing as you're Canadian and all and therefore did not necessarily sleep through high school civics), causes me no dismay at all. I am in fact, relieved.

I was so hoping that I was wrong about you, and, lo and behold, I was!

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
BDN- Rue told me that Candian PM elections are by paper ballot, that they're counted by hand overnight, and that it's based on the popular vote.

---

Quote:

---

That would be too simple and straighforward for us. We prefer insecure machines, biased election officials, machine-counting, and the electoral college. Why make something simple and workable when you can let politicians muck about, eh?

---

Quote:

---

The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:

Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
"...Probable massive voter fraud, as in the last two elections, has never been investigated by the government..."

---

Quote:

---

Harris wins Fla. GOP Senate nomination

"...Despite a handful of late openings at polling places, the primary appeared to be debacle-free, with no problems reported to rival the troubled elections in 2000 and 2002..."

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by kaneman:

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Causal:
Oh, my goodness! Could it be that another of River/Shadowfly/Kane's alter ego's has surfaced?

---

---