stupid, evil, and corrupt by rue

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

What a hoot! I'm almost tempted to get another thread going just to read your reply. BIG

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Once again Rue, you miss the point.
These things are exaggerated, and have no bearing on right and wrong. You want your elected officials to be saints, not human. You think you're perfect? You'd be waterboarding those baddies, just like the rest of 'em. You'd be pumping out pollution, just like the big corporations. You'd be protecting your boys from 'war crimes', just like Bush. You wouldn't spend a dime you didn't absolutly have to on Katrina victims while the war is on the front burner.
Please Rue, try to see things from their perspective. It's a complicated world.

All you peaceniks don't care about money and the wealthy; you just want hope, and a common future for all mankind. Keep dreaming, pal. We make our future, and those who don't, don't have any anyway. Only the strong survive.

Excuse me. I have to do my push-ups now.

Just wanted to see what it was like being FULL OF CRAP Chrisisall

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Wednesday, September 6, 2006 12:21 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
What a hoot!

FOC*Chrisisall at your service

.

*Full of crap

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Wednesday, September 6, 2006 2:00 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

"
global warming - not an issue
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/03/060302180504.htm
Antarctic Ice Sheet Losing Mass "

Just this last weekend I went hiking to a mountain lake I used to visit fifteen years ago...

The hills were a little steeper than I remember, ( likely me ) and I was surprised to see that the lake was half its old size and the glacier which once sat in the shade of a mountain and extended out into the the lake was no longer there.

Sad really

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Wednesday, September 6, 2006 6:02 PM

America loves a winner!

global warming - Much ado about that which isn't in our control. Really.

arsenic in drinking water - yet another one of the Clinton administrations planned " time bombs ". A last second policy change as he was headed out of office, leaving it up to W to deal w/ the mess. Bogus.

only private companies work - I think we saw the corruption and incompetenece in Gov't already.

war crimes? Now that's funny. Realy, it is.

Katrina - never before in US history has a story been turned upside down mores so than this b.s. State and local gov't bears a huge majority of the blame here. Folks living in N.O. have known for GENERATIONS that such an event might occur. Ignoring the threat for the Fed Gov't to come clean up is inexcusable.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, September 6, 2006 7:07 PM

Quote:
only private companies work - I think we saw the corruption and incompetenece in Gov't already.

I wasn't going to post on this thread because I figured it was feeding the other parties partisanness, but I had to interject.

Auraptor,

Don't you see that this statement (which I completely agree with) is also a non-partisan one, and that big govt is always corrupt and incompetent, and that private companies always do it better, ergo, the govt. of George W. Bush has to go (certainly not to be replace by hillary clinton) but as an institution of truly immense corrupt and incompetent big govt.

I think people get too caught up in rooting for their own team, deflecting partisan attacks of those across the aisle seeking power, to see that they've compromised their own ideals. If you destroy the thing you are fighting to protect then isn't it a pyrrhic victory?

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 2:35 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

DT:

Quote:
Don't you see that this statement (which I completely agree with) is also a non-partisan one, and that big govt is always corrupt and incompetent

So... you're saying democracy doesn't work.

Let me ask you a question, DT, since you're always bagging on government: If big governments are always corrupt and businesses are always better... what is THIS government corrupted by?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 3:01 AM

FREMDFIRMA

I'm not sure you wanna know the answer to that question Siggy - continued legwork has resulted in levels of ugliness I won't even post here.

But no, it's not just money, would the hell that it was...

-Frem

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 3:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
arsenic in drinking water - yet another one of the Clinton administrations planned " time bombs ". A last second policy change as he was headed out of office, leaving it up to W to deal w/ the mess. Bogus.

You were telling me just recently that something was all down to Bush despite it being a policy by Clinton. So I guess We're only allowed to recognise things as Bush's doing if it's good, right?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 4:15 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
If big governments are always corrupt and businesses are always better... what is THIS government corrupted by?

Well, truth be told, PN actually has some of the answers. After a certain point, the wealth is a given, and no longer fun in and of itself. That's when the 'Roman stuff' happens...

Eewwwww Chrisisall

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 4:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Let me ask you a question, DT, since you're always bagging on government: If big governments are always corrupt and businesses are always better... what is THIS government corrupted by?

DT's ability to assume his opinion is unbiased fact is truly amazing, not to mention annoying. Since coming back here he’s really taken a dive off the deep end, he seems to consider any discussion pointless, because there’s what he thinks and there’s being wrong.

I'm almost surprised that in the pictures of God thread he didn't post pictures of himself, he seems to think he has God’s insight.

A great many times I've seen government incompetence, where projects have over run, for instance. More often than not that's because of some greedy incompetent contractor.

Only corporations work, don't make me laugh, in this country privatising the railways worked real well, a bunch of companies make some juicy profits while trains fly off the tracks and kill hundreds of people. There was no Hatfield before privatisation.

We can all see how well private only healthcare works.

The only people who can make a statement like "only private companies work" are those that truly can't get over their ideology. It's a statement akin to a communist saying "Communism is the system that would be the best for all in the real world".

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 8:45 AM

Signym,

Communism. he backers of Bush are trotsky communists who use corporations as mussolini did, as part of a powerbase. These corporations aren't companies with shareholder and workers, they're proxy govt. dictatoriships run by unchecked CEOs, with a labor force about which they care nothing. It's barely business at all, it's just a way to keep the people at bay.

Democracy probably doesn't work, but what we have isn't a democracy, at least not anymore.

Citizen,

shut up.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 9:19 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Communism. The backers of Bush are trotsky communists who use corporations as mussolini did, as part of a powerbase.

DT... I think you have a peculiar definition of communism, particularly as one of the tenets of communism was that the government would 'wither away'. What you are describing is widely defined as "fascism". Are you saying that the USA is fascist?

Also, while I understand that dictatorial governments and predatory corporations often mutually benefit, I don't see much "mutuality" in our current arrangement. What I see happening today is our government doing the bidding of business. I challenge you to find more than two example of the opposite: business doing the bidding of the Bush government in ways that promote expanded government role and continuation of Bush policies.

The only two business that seemed to actively support the Bush administration in a quid pro quo arrangement are

(1) Media support for Bush in return for greater consolidation.

(2) Diebold.

But the other corporate beneficiaries- pharmas, energy, insurances, military contractors, oil companies, credit card companies and banking, etc - have not supported the GOP in any long-term way because in return for the billions they're gotten they've consistently fucked over the public and drained the Federal coffers. And sooner or later that leads to a backlash which government will absorb, not business. In other words, business is weakening "government" both politically and fiscally. I'm not thinking in partisan terms. I don't mean that THIS administration be weakened, I think that many future administrations will be weakened because of inability to raise funds/ borrow money and because of general distrust of government.

And you will say Hillary is waiting in the wings to take over and feed us more of the same, but riddle me this, Batman... If business can install and remove Administrations at will, who's in charge? So I repeat my question- What is THIS government corrupted by?

Quote:
Democracy probably doesn't work, but what we have isn't a democracy, at least not anymore.

We never did. What we DID have at one time was greater economic egalitarianism.

So, since we are now in the day and age of the corporate monopoly, no matter how much we may pine for a simpler past... who can restrain the power of the monopoly?

Oh, and BTW- why are you telling Citizen to shut up? I think he provided very good examples.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 11:20 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Well, truth be told, PN actually has some of the answers. After a certain point, the wealth is a given, and no longer fun in and of itself. That's when the 'Roman stuff' happens...

Eewwwww Chrisisall

He does, too bad he blows em so far out of proportion they don't make sense anymore...

There's also certain foreign influances, and they go so damn deep it's like one of those russian doll sets, every time you open one, there's another inside it.

Related note: concerning with some of the black-ops stuff from the cold war that's finally coming out, one particular general said this.

"If the american people ever knew... even half of what was done, without their approval, behind their backs, yet in their name, with their money... the hardware stores would run out of rope, because they'd lynch every one of us."

-Frem

PS. While trying to get some sense of what Sub that might have been during the Liberty incident, I wound up reading a damned interesting book on cold-war sub antics, we wasted BILLIONS of taxpayer money, stolen and hidden in black budgets, doing naught more than trying like hell to provoke people who didn't want to fight us, and many of those asinine stunts could have easily started WWIII.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 11:32 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Don't you see that this statement (which I completely agree with) is also a non-partisan one, and that big govt is always corrupt and incompetent, and that private companies always do it better, ergo, the govt. of George W. Bush has to go (certainly not to be replace by hillary clinton) but as an institution of truly immense corrupt and incompetent big govt.

I think people get too caught up in rooting for their own team, deflecting partisan attacks of those across the aisle seeking power, to see that they've compromised their own ideals. If you destroy the thing you are fighting to protect then isn't it a pyrrhic victory?

Dreamtrove - I'd love to replace our bloated Imperial Federal Gov't w/ a smaller, more freedom loving and fiscally responsible one. The Fair Tax bill, along with doing away with the IRS, would be a nice start.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 11:35 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
You were telling me just recently that something was all down to Bush despite it being a policy by Clinton. So I guess We're only allowed to recognise things as Bush's doing if it's good, right?

citizen - Unless you are up to speed w/ this topic, don't try to lump unrelated issues into one discussion. It simply isn't going to work.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 12:36 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Ass-wrap,

MUST you display your ignorance at every opportunity ? You almost seem proud of it.

Quote:

global warming - Much ado about that which isn't in our control. Really.

In your expert opinion, I'm sure.

Quote:
arsenic in drinking water - yet another one of the Clinton administrations planned " time bombs ". A last second policy change as he was headed out of office, leaving it up to W to deal w/ the mess. Bogus.

Once again you're looking mighty silly. CLINTON was waiting for the USEPA. It was BUSH who said that wasn't good enough and brought in the NAS (who confirmed the EPA level that Clinton approved.)

Quote:
only private companies work - I think we saw the corruption and incompetence in Gov't already.

I'll give you a couple of points on this one. Halliburton in all its glorious corruption is in fact indistinguishable from government. Or is it the other way around?

Quote:
war crimes? Now that's funny. Really, it is.

You must be a real Renaissance man. Global climate expert, int'l law expert. Wow. I mean, really. Wow.

Quote:
Katrina - never before in US history has a story been turned upside down mores so than this b.s. State and local gov't bears a huge majority of the blame here. Folks living in N.O. have known for GENERATIONS that such an event might occur. Ignoring the threat for the Fed Gov't to come clean up is inexcusable.

So AFTER FEDERALIZING THE FUNCTIONS UNDER HOMELAND SECURITY, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAD NO RESPONSIBILITY TO RESPOND.

You know ass-wrap, I can't tell if you're completely nuts, or totally corrupt. Either way, you're a waste of human flesh.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 12:48 PM

Signym,

I'm being literal. No special definitions. Literally, these guys, are the old shachtmanites, literally, and no conspiracies implies, this is who they are. The followers of Max Shachtman, who was a leader in the american communist party. This is where these guys are coming from, and what they're all about. Shachtman created his own communist movement because he became convinced that the american communists had become corrupted by 'sovietism'

The bush admin is basically fascist, sure, or corporatist, which is the same thing, since both were invented by benito mussolini.

It is necessary for these guys, in order to achieve their goals, to remove everything they can from elected office, because in elected office, someone else might get elected. What institutions they choose to use are not the relevant issue, they want unchecked power without competition, dissent or accountablility.

These businesses basically never do anything in the game because they never get any money from the public till, *until* those companies were taken over by members of the inner circle. Haliburton was just a random contracter until cheney became its ceo, after that, it's all to benefit the agenda, not the employees of haliburton.

Citizen was just being an ass.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 12:51 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

It seems that a lot of Libertarians assume that if a government shrinks it automatically becomes "better". But I can think of a lot of ways in which a fiscally small government could be oppressive. Strip away all the fluff and lint that accumulates with time, and at its heart a 'government' is a series of laws which "govern" how we relate to each other, how corporations relate to individuals and to each other, how ideas are "owned" and "sold", how we all relate to the government, who pays taxes and so forth.

Imagine a government that has written a series of laws: Corporations own everything. They pay no taxes, don't need to meet any rules, use and abuse anyone at will. Strikes are illegal. If you fall into debt, your creditor owns you. Now imagine that this government is VERY small: it spends no money on retirement, welfare, health care, or education. Instead, it puts a huge proportion of it's very small budget into "internal security".

Nice, huh?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 12:56 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
These businesses basically never do anything in the game because they never get any money from the public till, *until* those companies were taken over by members of the inner circle.

They don't HAVE to get money from the public till in order to benefit from government. All they need is a legal change to make them the rulers, and to use the government whip-hand to enforce corporate rules. See my post above.

And the question still stands: Now that we live in a corporatocracy, who will check the power of the corporation?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 1:10 PM

Signym,

Here's what I see. A bunch of people on the left are jumping up and down with a "We knew it! The right is evil! This is what they've been gunning for all along."

No, we haven't. Proof of this? Tony Blair, Bill Clinton. A lot of us on the right think that maybe this is what *you* have been gunning for, whether clinton, blair, or bush-is-a-mole theory, but that's a tough pill for anyone to swallow.

The fact is: this is what *they* have been gunning for, where the they is the trotksy communist, socialist, authoritarian revolutionaries, those who supported them, their movement, and those that are now in power. It's not a democrat or a republican, even when it has a democrat or republican face, and it's not the labor party, even when it says it is. The proof of this is in the older members of all of those parties complaining about the radical agenda. It's an intellectual academic think tank idea based on thoughts like "the only thing the soviets did wrong which made them fail was..." and "the only problem with the nazi was..." without realizing that the end of those sentences is "that they were really evil!"

Bush-ism is not the core of right wing capitalism, and if you don't see that, fine, but don't come running to me when Hillary Clinton invades Iran, Venezeula, institutes a draft, etc.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 1:23 PM

Auraptor,

The so called fair tax in the national sales tax, and it's a huge open invite to big govt. that will swallow us whole. It makes no guarantee to get rid of the appalling income tax, so knowing this govt., double taxation is almost a guarantee.

Rue,

Not to butt in, but I don't even see the point in a Clinton vs. Bush debate. That's sort of like arguing in favor of Stalin because he didn't kill quite as many innocent civilians as Hitler. IMHO. Just saying.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 1:25 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Here's what I see. A bunch of people on the left are jumping up and down with a "We knew it! The right is evil! This is what they've been gunning for all along."

DT- you are seriously missing the point. Setting aside your crazy-making monikers (liberals= nazis, communists= fascists) the fact is that corporations run government today, not the other way around, and eventually we will see government 'wither way' but this will not lead to greater freedom as the Libertarians and Communists believe (so Libertarians= communists) but to greater oppression from a different direction.

Quote:
this is what *they* have been gunning for, where the they is the trotksy communist, socialist, authoritarian revolutionaries, those who supported them, their movement, and those that are now in power.

"This"???? What is "this" that "they" have been gunning for? One-world government? Complete corruption of democracy? Please elucidate.

BTW- "They" (the people in power today) are not thinking "the only thing the soviets did wrong which made them fail was..." and "the only problem with the nazi was..." What they are really thinkling isd... "How can I squeeze more $$$ out of my operations"?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 2:53 PM

DT:
Make me.

What, did I point out something that goes counter to your ideology?

Always willing to twist failures of your ideology on to communism, rather than open your eyes to reality. "Oh it's not the private corporations doing it, its, its, its Communist body snatchers from the communy-one nebula!" You need some new bullshit mate.

I'm right your wrong, get up to speed, get on the same page, I don't need to make a case, I said it...

Sound familiar? It should its how you make a case.

Quote:
Citizen was just being an ass.

No that would be you, maybe you want to explain again how anything you say is automatically unbiased fact?

Or perhaps for the first time you'd like to back up something you've said with something more substantial than "shut up I'm right, I'm always right, didn't you get the memo?"

AU:
That's as good as "Yes Citizen, you're right" and about as close as you can get, thanks, I'll take it.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 3:48 PM

Signym,

You're completely misreading what I'm saying.

I don't miss the point at all. The point is just wrong, it's incorrect. The key corporations are just stooge organizations for the agenda. There are profiteers there, sure. But what is wrong with our govt. is the huge agenda monkeys.

Communists, btw, whatever else you believe about them, are NOT anti-govt. They're extremely pro govt. In communist dystopia, the govt is all things.

Also, (and this is the one where I have to pick you up and shake you and say wake up:)

Under George W Bush and company, Govt. is NOT shrinking. It is growing by leaps and bounds. You're making a classical liberal Bush-is-a-conservative ergo everything-conservative-has-been-leading-towards-Bush mistake.

Conservatives believe in limited govt. scaling back govt., etc. This has absolutely zippo to do with George W. Bush, who may say things like "oh let's privatize, but only if you give it all to me," and in reality has no interest of letting go of anything. Bush has the largest spending of any govt. ever; The most non-military employees of any govt. ever; The most reach into the peoples lives of any american govt., the most executive power of any american govt. Bush *IS* big govt.

The truth, IMHO, is that we are NOT at a point where we have limited govt and we need more govt. in order to bring things back to normal. We have way way way too much govt., and need to radically scale it back in order to bring things back to normal. Remember, the free society that our founding fathers set up in 1776 originally had no federal govt. at all. By the civil war, it barely had a govt., maybe on the level of the EU today, and that was considered so oppressive that the south revolted (not just about slavery) Now, looking today, that kind of govt. looks like total anarachy compared to the de facto soviet state of amerika we are apparantly building today.

*This* was George W. Bush and all that that entails.

Quote:
BTW- "They" (the people in power today) are not thinking "the only thing the soviets did wrong which made them fail was..." and "the only problem with the nazi was..." What they are really thinkling isd... "How can I squeeze more $$$ out of my operations"?

I would be delighted if you were right. This would be a tiny problem compared to the one which we now have. Unfortunately, I'm sure that it's much much worse than this. If this were the case, they wouldn't bother with the war and the torture and the genocide and the massive military buildup, the funding of call it what you will international terrorism, or the destroying of freedom and erasing of rights, none of this serves the profit motive. If they were about the profit motive they'd line all their corrupt ducks in a row and start passing huge bills which created projects that the people would never rise up against.

Consider some of these ways to make FAR more money than the war in Iraq:

Rebuilding America: a project to rebuild disintegrating inner cities in america. A huge construction project for which you could easily allocate 60 billion a year, maybe a great deal more, and hire Halliburton to do the work.

A comprehensive National healthcare plan: Everyone everywhere is insured by the govt., whatever the drug and medical companies charge, we pay it. You could pump half a trillion a year easily out to your corporate friends. Does it benefit someone you don't own? Well then buy that company before you pass the bill.

Insourcing: A handout to any company that hires americans, or maybe a blank check loan.

There's just a million ways to do this. I'm not saying they're not doing any of it, of course they are. But to them, it's just a means to an end.

Here's one for you: In Florida, it seems that JEB Bush made off with a billion dollars by creating fictional patients with fictional conditions who were treated in a fictional wing of a real hospital. But did he keep the cash? No. He funnelled it to third world terrorist groups in latin america to attempt to depose political enemies such as Chavez and Castro.

Corruption is just a stepping stone for these people towards a much greater evil. I think, though, that it does have a role to play. I think it's their weakest link.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 3:58 PM

Citizen,

The reason you irritate me is that you oppose for the sake of opposing. You're constantly devils advocate. I basically accept and everyone here does that you're not going to make someone switch allegiances. If you're a communist, that's news to me, I thought you were a libdem or something.

Communism has killed more people than any other ideology, feel free to crunch the numbers. Living under a system of communism, (ever tried it? I have,) you're personal freedoms are pretty close to zero. Service to the state is the only purpose of your life. You may marry and have children because the state permits it, because it generates new workers. This is hardly a free society that the sorts of our Mr. Reynolds would care to live in. In communism, everyone (except for the oligarchs) is equal. They are all peasants in an equal level of destitute poverty. Virtually every communist regime has at some point gone ape on its own population. The larger ones, Russia, China, have done it several times. In the past year, China executed more of its own citizens than the US has lost in military conflict since Vietnam. About 3 to 4 times as many in fact. During WWII, the soviets ran extermination operations like the germans. Before the war, they carried out numerous "purges." After the war, the Chinese did the same. Communism deserves friends no more than Naziism does. If history is any guide, the two are really six of one, half a dozen of the other.

Just out of curiosity, Do you know what a fellow traveller is?

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 4:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamtrove:
The reason you irritate me is that you oppose for the sake of opposing.

No, I say what I think, I at least feel the need to back up what I say, which puts me infinitely ahead of you, the man who actually thought saying "I'm right, you're wrong, get with the program" was a cogent argument.

Quote:
You're constantly devils advocate.

No your always devils advocate because you always say things I don't agree with *YAWN*.

Nice way to frame it: either you agree with me or you're just playing devils advocate for the sake of argument.

The fact that you find someone disagreeing with you to be annoying kind of goes against this next statement, don'tcha ya think?

Quote:
I basically accept and everyone here does that you're not going to make someone switch allegiances.

No you don't, what you do is basically tell people you are right and they are wrong and they'll grow up one day and accept that.

Quote:
If you're a communist, that's news to me, I thought you were a libdem or something.

I'm someone who recognises that being too ideological is bad. I'm someone who recognises that the very best working systems for the vast majority of people marry Socialism AND Capitalism, and the worst are more polarised either way.

I'm someone who recognises that blaming anything going wrong on "them" like you blame everything on communism, which in your mind has been redefined as anything bad, causes problems as surely as being a card carrying member of X.

Your capitalist rhetoric sounds identical to that of die hard communists. They say "Communism fails because the capitalists cause it" you say "all our problems are down to communists" it's the same basic argument to support the two oppsosing sides.

Quote:
Communism has killed more people than any other ideology, feel free to crunch the numbers.

Why should I do your work for you? I want to see you do it, I'd be interested how many deaths were attributed to communism. You attribute things to communism because they are bad, not because they are communist, communism is your scape goat ever ready to take the blame in your mind when your ideology fails. It's about time you realised that and actually looking at things with an attempt at getting over your bias, rather than declaring something is unbiased because you said it.

Quote:
Just out of curiosity, Do you know what a fellow traveller is?

Yes. I am not now, neither have I ever been a communist.

I've stated clearly that I believe certain things should be provided, healthcare for instance. I've also shown quite clearly that Public healthcare fares much better than private only systems. I see you have no argument as to how rail crashes like Hatfield, a consequence of privatisation, are a good thing.

I'm not a card carrying member of communism, neither am I a fellow traveller, you ARE a rabid follower of extreme capitalism, so much so you actually blame it's failures on everyone else to protect your precious ideology.

"You're either with capitalism or you're a communist!" Sounds familiar, almost like "You're either with us or against us!" *shivers*.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 5:25 PM

Citizen,

If you want to what I really think, I think you're a pseudo intellectual college grad who thinks he is much more intelligent than he really is. I think you're very naive about the way the world actually works, but you have all this stuff you've 'learned' which tells you that you know all the answers. In short, I think you're not as bright as you think you are.

At times you've shown that you can be a sane and amiable human being, but much of the time your overambitious ego gets in the way. You have launched into some of the most truly spectacular flamewars to appear on the forum, and I don't think I can recall a single occassion on which you have admitted a mistake.

I think that you never listen to constructive criticism, but take everything as a personal attack to be deflected at any cost, and so learn little from the experience.

At this rate, I suspect my Mr. Bush and your Mr. Blair will turn our nations into glowing rocks before you grow up, or at any rate, it will probably be too late to do anything about it, but in general, I hope you learn.

When I was your age, I was much the arrogant liberal prick that you are today.

I think it's interesting that you think of yourself as the more moderate of me and you. I don't think this is even close to reality.

If communists say "Communism fails because the capitalists cause it" then they are correct. But I don't blame all problems on communism, but communism in its many forms, including neocon (which is a subtype of trotsky socialism, the term was coined by noted socialist michael harrington to refer to other socialists, particularly, the ones who are in power right now)

Quote:
Why should I do your work for you? I want to see you do it, I'd be interested how many deaths were attributed to communism.

Unlike you, I actually work for a living, I have no free time. I've already crunch these numbers in an earlier thread. About 100 million. If you think that's high, you're not including africa.

I never said the things you have me to have said, btw.

You just have a lot to learn, and the first one is to relax and let go. You are strung like a kite, and convinced that you must know more, understand things better, and be closer to the ultimate good than other people. I'm not going to have this out with you in a flame war.

One of the first things I said in this forum was in response to Rue's "everything I know I learned by the grace of others" and I said "much of what I know I learned by losing an argument with some asshole."

I don't have to hope that you'll come around. In time, either you will, or you'll or you won't. What would really serve you and those around you best is if you could come to the position that opinions other than your own were also valid.

I think, btw, that you're basically a decent, likeable, intelligent guy, who just happens to have, if you'll pardon the expression, his head stuck too far up his own... er... shell.

Relax, unwind, and try to experiment with points of view other than those you agree with. join a club of people with a different political slant, read some books, role play your own opposition, talk to a tory. Whatever you have to do to break this mold, because, from the outside, it doesn't look like an objective well thought out position based on a coherent world view. It looks like the argument of some punk who learned it one way, never questioned it, and now spouts it as loud and as often as he can to let others know how smart he is.

I hope you take this the way it's inteneded, as a suggestion, from a friend, to can the attitude and think.

I tried more gently to say this once before, and you completely missed the point, which is why I started ignoring your posts. I'm not going to spend the time to say it again.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 5:59 PM

America loves a winner!

rue - Must you start every post answering me w/ a childish ad hominem? It really makes you look all the more a dick head.

Great retort on the global warming myth. Well done.

Yah, Clinton waited for 8 yrs before making his changes, and then stuck Bush w/ the burden of a costly plan for everyone to get caught up to code. What a load of crap that was.

Right, it all has to do w/ Haliburton. That's a tired old song. Try learning another.

Quote:
So AFTER FEDERALIZING THE FUNCTIONS UNDER HOMELAND SECURITY, THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAD NO RESPONSIBILITY TO RESPOND

Bogus premise, and you know it. FEMA didn't have NO RESPONSIBILTY, but definatly wasn't expected to be the FIRST responders. But since you're too much of an ass-head to understand the whole Katrina disaster, I won't waste my time explaining it to you. You're just not that intelligent to understand anyway.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 6:05 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Auraptor,

The so called fair tax in the national sales tax, and it's a huge open invite to big govt. that will swallow us whole. It makes no guarantee to get rid of the appalling income tax, so knowing this govt., double taxation is almost a guarantee.

Correct, the Fair Tax does make no guarantee to get rid of the income tax. Which is WHY I pointed out that for this to work, the current income tax, and the IRS must be done away with. The Fair Tax is meant to be an alternative means of taxation. Not a all in one fix it plan. The fair tax would reduce , not grow the Gov't.

www.fairtax.org

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 6:22 PM

Auraptor,

So you say, but humbly I disagree. Any new tax opens the possibility of the growth of govt., and since govt. is implementing any new law, and has a vested interest in a growth of govt., they will try to make it so.

But the fair tax has far more flaws than that. It's a disincentive to commerce. I am the first to admit that the income tax is a disincentive to hire workers, which is an appalling thing for a society to have, but a disincentive to commerce is really ultimately just as bad, or at least, almost as bad.

What we need is a taxation system which is a disincentive to things which we actually don't want to have in our society. This is how I came up with the fat tax on lazy money. Lazy money does a society no good at all.

For this reason the vice tax was a good idea in theory, but in practice it created a caveat that many of us didn't foresee: that the tax gave the govt. a vested financial interest in the success of vice.

There are undoubtedly alternative systems to my fat tax which would follow the same disincentive principles, but I haven't seen them yet. import tarrifs would be one, I suppose. A lender's tax would make logical sense, but would probably be cruel. CEO tax. Anyone taking large amounts of money out of a company for any reason could pay a hefty tax. There's a lot of money moving that way, $400 million severence packages, etc.

100% death tax makes sense, except that it gives the govt. a vested interest in your death. For this reason, any death tax is a bad idea.

agenda tax. Anyone in govt. or connected to govt. who is supporting a particular spending agenda should have to pay as much of that spending bill as they can (ie. big pharm. has lobbied for some major spending bills, they could help foot the bill)

overconsumption tax. If you have a vehichle which gets
this is just a bunch of right off the top of my head ideas of taxes which might discourage behavior we want to discourage, that might raise some revenue.

The thing about the economy, is that there's a commerce cycle:

I buy a computer. That money goes to pay workers in the plant of the computer company where it was made, who then take that money and go and buy an ipod or whatever. It's a complete cycle, and there's no question but that the economy runs best if there's less drain happening on each pass. It's best of all if there's no govt. vampire clinging to that loop anywhere. I've been somewhat happy to see corporations in my life have started giving up on dividends, which were an unnecessary leech in that loop.

Fair tax is a big fat vampire in the middle of the loop, as is corporate tax and individual income tax. Imagine for a second, if all three were in place at once. The loop would stop dead. In a worst case scenario, I figured it out, 90% of every dollar would be siphoned off on every pass. By the time the ipod maker apple's employee got my dollar, there would be a penny left which had not been eaten away by tax in some form.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 6:28 PM

Not to butt in again but...

Homeland Security is another big govt. nightmare.

Bush just doesn't understand limited govt., or worse yet, he doesn't care.

I read an analysis of the creation of the dept of HS recently which suggested that the purpose was to silence dissent by putting everyone under a yesman pawn, in this case, chertoff. It's also worth noting that the idea appears in early shachtmanite plans for socializing america.

Basically, I'll be happy when Bush and all his ideas go away, and hopefully take Clinton and all his ideas with him, and their wives, and then maybe we can maybe get a fresh start with someone sane.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 6:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamtrove:
If you want to what I really think, I think you're a pseudo intellectual college grad who thinks he is much more intelligent than he really is. I think you're very naive about the way the world actually works, but you have all this stuff you've 'learned' which tells you that you know all the answers. In short, I think you're not as bright as you think you are.

A really interesting statement from a tomato farmer who thinks he knows more about physics than most scientists.

So where, exactly, do you get your boundless knowledge oh great one? From long discussions with Tomato plants?

Quote:
and I don't think I can recall a single occassion on which you have admitted a mistake.

I have. You haven't. It’s as simple as that.

Quote:
I think that you never listen to constructive criticism, but take everything as a personal attack to be deflected at any cost, and so learn little from the experience.

Congrats DT, only you could think calling someone a stupid little prick is constructive criticism. Well maybe you PirateNews and Kaneman, so you're in good company at least. I said you need to get over your ideology of "capitalism always good, everything else always bad" you take that as an open attack, and call me a stupid prick. Then you go on to say:
"I hope you take this the way it's intended, as a suggestion, from a friend, to can the attitude and think."
If you wanted me to take it as a suggestion from a friend maybe you shouldn't have called me a stupid work shy prick and bypassed any point I raised to do so.

I suspect capitalist corporations will have enslaved the Human race long before you grow up.

The only reason you don't get in more flame wars is because you spit out your vitriol then toddle off arrogantly assured of your own superiority. In other words you're such an arrogant little prick you don't even have the good graces to listen to what anyone else has to say, let alone take it on board.

Quote:
I think it's interesting that you think of yourself as the more moderate of me and you. I don't think this is even close to reality.

I suspect you don't. I find it amusing advocating removal of any government whatsoever and handing all power to corporations seems quite moderate to you. Don't tell me that's not what you advocate.

You're consistently on the crazy conspiracy side of the debate, and you think you're a moderate? Comedians couldn't make this stuff up.

So yeah, I think going to the middle ground between capitalism and socialism is more moderate than going completely over to capitalism. In fact striving for the middle ground between to opposing ideals is the very definition of being a moderate you fucking moron.

Quote:
When I was your age, I was much the arrogant liberal prick that you are today.

When I'm your age I sincerely hope I'm not an arrogant stupid selfish old prick like you.

Quote:
Unlike you, I actually work for a living, I have no free time.

I don't work for a living, that's original. No free time? What are you doing here, is this your work is it you fucking hypocrite? You turn a request for you to make your own fucking case into an insult, seems pretty much like the actions of a man who can't backup what he says to me.

Quote:
I never said the things you have me to have said, btw.

Liar. How about in the freedom of speech thread where you prominently announced that people either agree with you or they don't know what they are talking about. Seems like all those things you're telling me off for are just as or more so prominently a part of you as they are a part of me.

Or:

Quote:
Suffice it to say, I'm right, you're wrong, trust me, fall in line.

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=23231#365219
You’re words, summarising why you didn’t have to make your case or support what you had to say. If you don’t have any data too support your position why should I take it at face value? What makes you so special oh great one?

What is even better is that I said you’d say: "Look I'm right, okay, but this argument isn't worth my time, just accept that all the data is on my side and you're wrong, I don't need to prove anything. " and I was right. Looks like I know you better than you’d like to admit.

You accuse me of being arrogant and stupid yet you consistently decide that you can say the most outlandish things (like "Dogs are more intelligent than people") and you never feel the need to back any of this up. I suppose that's not arrogant for you to do it though is it, I mean you have a direct line to the truth; you are the most intelligent person who ever lived, after all.

Quote:
You just have a lot to learn, and the first one is to relax and let go. You are strung like a kite, and convinced that you must know more, understand things better, and be closer to the ultimate good than other people. I'm not going to have this out with you in a flame war.

Right back at you, but at least I'm honest enough to try and back up what I'm saying rather than just stating my opinion as undeniable unbiased fact.

Quote:
What would really serve you and those around you best is if you could come to the position that opinions other than your own were also valid.

Probably one of the most hypocritical sentences you've ever written.

Quote:
I think, btw, that you're basically a decent, likeable, intelligent guy, who just happens to have, if you'll pardon the expression, his head stuck too far up his own... er... shell.

Make up your mind which is it, am I a stupid arrogant pseudo intellectual prick arsehole who has no opinion worth listening too or am I this other thing?

Quote:
Relax, unwind, and try to experiment with points of view other than those you agree with. join a club of people with a different political slant, read some books, role play your own opposition, talk to a tory.

I do already. I just got back from holiday and one of the people I shared my hotel room with voted for Bush for instance. I'd be willing to bet real money you don't do any of the above.

Quote:
Whatever you have to do to break this mold, because, from the outside, it doesn't look like an objective well thought out position based on a coherent world view. It looks like the argument of some punk who learned it one way, never questioned it, and now spouts it as loud and as often as he can to let others know how smart he is.

I bet that's how any argument that you don't agree with looks like to you. You're inability to accept any world view other than your own is not my fault.

In fact I think this final set of statements fits you far better than it does me or, in fact, just about anyone else here.

At least I'm willing to talk to people with different POV to me, even if it does get heated. All you do is tell them you are right, they are wrong and they should just shut the hell up until they learn to think just like you.

You want to know what I really think; your life didn't turn out to be the startling success you expected, so you come here to prove that you really are a somebody. That your knowledge of politics, physics and medicine outstrips anyone else’s, not just here but everywhere. You accuse me of being arrogant, but you're the Farmer from New York who thinks he has more knowledge of medicine than just about every doctor and research scientist on Earth. You're the guy who thinks he's come up with the ideas of physics that are right, and that anything else is just "mathematical posturing".

If I’m arrogant what do we call the guy who thinks he’s the most intelligent and knowledgeable person who ever lived? What do we call the guy who makes statements like "that’s just unbiased fact" about their own opinions?

I think before you start pulling the splinter from my eye you should see to the log in yours. I think you should start listening to your own "constructive criticism".

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 7:01 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

DT- How do I disagree with you? Let me count the ways...

Quote:
The key corporations are just stooge organizations for the agenda. There are profiteers there, sure.

Which are the "key" corporations? How do they differ from all the OTHER corporations? ARE there any "others"? As far as I can tell, the corporations that have benefitted from the Bush admin... from small sweatshops in the Marianas to international pharmas, from privately-held military contractors to publicly-traded software companies... are so many and varied that that it would be hard to actually exclude any.

Quote:
Under George W Bush and company, Govt. is NOT shrinking. It is growing by leaps and bounds. You're making a classical liberal Bush-is-a-conservative ergo everything-conservative-has-been-leading-towards- Bush mistake.

Nah, I'm not making that mistake. What I said is that this huge expansion of the the Federal budget and Federal power is unsustainable. (Except for people like Auraptor who's so fearful he'll give up ANYTHING to feel safe. Which of course he never will.)

Quote:
Conservatives believe in limited govt. scaling back govt., etc. This has absolutely zippo to do with George W. Bush, who may say things like "oh let's privatize, but only if you give it all to me," and in reality has no interest of letting go of anything.

Bush is not really interested in privatizing everything. He'll create favorable laws in return for mere contributions.

Quote:
The truth, IMHO, is that we are NOT at a point where we have limited govt and we need more govt. in order to bring things back to normal. We have way way way too much govt., and need to radically scale it back in order to bring things back to normal. Remember, the free society that our founding fathers set up in 1776 originally had no federal govt. at all. By the civil war, it barely had a govt., maybe on the level of the EU today, and that was considered so oppressive that the south revolted (not just about slavery) Now, looking today, that kind of govt. looks like total anarachy compared to the de facto soviet state of amerika we are apparantly building today.

So I ask my question AGAIN: Who will blunt the power of corporations?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 7:41 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Ass-wrap

I have no patience for liars. I will stop using my little pet names for you when you stop lying.

"Clinton waited for 8 years". Ass-wipe, get a clue. I have the real story here but I'm waiting for you to post ANY documentation for your fabrication. I'm not going to spend my time proving you wrong. You made the claim. Now back it up. If you can.

"(Halliburton')s a tired old song." But true.

I know who trains you to parrot their talking points. It's so obvious you haven't got a single idea in your head. You CAN'T talk about Katrina, because you just ain't got it.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 8:05 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Just a quick note.

Most of our current policymakers are Straussians, not communists.

The beliefs and teachings of Leo Strauss are pretty far from anything one would consider communist, so a lot of folk in this thread are operating under a false assumption here.

A little digging and a few minutes would bring you up to speed on that if you so desired.

-Frem

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 8:33 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Rue,

In reading your exchange with dreamtrove it reminds me of an article I read about movement conservatives and how they rarely acknowledge the failures of conservative policies. Instead they see it as a failures of individuals. In other words, conservative policies are never wrong. It's only conservative politicians who stop being sufficiently conservative. Dreamtrove is quick to say that Bush is not conservative, ignoring all the evidence of conservative policies that have been implemented during this administration. Policies that have ceded governmental oversight to corporations and shifted the tax burden onto the middle class and attempts to destroy or seriously undercut social programs. The big take-away lesson for me, from this administration, is that wide-scale implementation of conservative policies doesn't work for the average American. But dreamtrove doesn't see it this way. I just don't get it.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 8:44 PM

Quote:
The big take-away lesson for me, from this administration, is that wide-scale implementation of conservative policies doesn't work for the average American. But dreamtrove doesn't see it this way. I just don't get it.

I've been trying to say this for sometime, for my trouble I get called a stupid ignorant little prick. In the nicest most constructive way of course.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 8:56 PM

SOUPCATCHER

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
I've been trying to say this for sometime, for my trouble I get called a stupid ignorant little prick. In the nice most crionstructive way of course.

I'll stick up for you. Hey, everybody, citizen is not ignorant.

Which reminds me of something else that my dad liked to say. It really works better as a back and forth...

Hey. Some of the guys were making fun of you today. They said you eat shit sandwiches. I stuck up for you. I told them you didn't like bread.

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Thursday, September 7, 2006 8:57 PM

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, September 8, 2006 2:00 AM

America loves a winner!

dreamtrove - I suggest you check out the website and educate yourself on the fair tax. Much of what you're basing your views on is contradictory to the facts. But if you still feel that way after you've checked out the site or read Neal Boortz's book on the FAIR TAX, then we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, September 8, 2006 2:05 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Ass-wrap

I have no patience for liars. I will stop using my little pet names for you when you stop lying.

"Clinton waited for 8 years". Ass-wipe, get a clue. I have the real story here but I'm waiting for you to post ANY documentation for your fabrication. I'm not going to spend my time proving you wrong. You made the claim. Now back it up. If you can.

"(Halliburton')s a tired old song." But true.

I know who trains you to parrot their talking points. It's so obvious you haven't got a single idea in your head. You CAN'T talk about Katrina, because you just ain't got it.

rue, you're a moron. Plain and simple. I'm not lying simply because you don't like me talking about your messiah, Clinton. What I said was right, and if you don't like it, piss off. Truth hurts. Hold your breath, I'm not dealing w/ a pencil necked geek like you over this.

As for Katrina, I know far more about this than you. It's not even worth going over, you're such a clueless myrmidon.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, September 8, 2006 4:10 AM

Citizen,

I said I'm not getting baited in to your flame war. You are now the troll I have decided not to feed. 90% of everything you say is cr@p. Probably 100% of what you just posted re: me is wrong.

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Friday, September 8, 2006 4:31 AM

Signym,

Key as in Haliburton. Corporations which essentially aren't private sector businesses. They have basically one customer, and that is the federal govt. I hope you can see how that isn't free market capitalism, and much more closely resembles corporatism.

Quote:
Auraptor who's so fearful he'll give up ANYTHING to feel safe.

I used to think this, but I'm beginning to suspect that he has a defense contractor job which depends on the current situation, but it actually makes him more nervous than he's letting on. Kudos btw to Finn for admitting to be for a policy (spending cuts) which was actually anti-Finn (cut his spending). I don't think there are a lot of us who would. I don't think he wanted his own spending trimmed, but still ideologically agrees with the idea.

Quote:
Bush is not really interested in privatizing everything. He'll create favorable laws in return for mere contributions.

Sure, this is the part where they're hopelessly corrupt. But the problem is much worse than that. This is what happens with the logging companies and whatnot. The situation with big pharm and oil is more sinister.

Quote:
So I ask my question AGAIN: Who will blunt the power of corporations?

This power is essentially handed to the chosen corporations by the govt. Big media, and big pharm, essentially exist in all their bigness because of exclusive govt. licensing. Govt. decides who can run cable lines where, who can broadcast, which channels can go where. If it weren't so, there might be three different cable providers competing with completely different lines of channels. It would be chaos, with real competition. We're starting to see that with satellite, but the govt. through the FCC, is constantly skewing things in favor of companies like time warner that are intimately connected to them.

Even worse with big pharm. The right of a company to charge $600 a bottle for pills is a govt. enforced guarantee. The govt. prevents anyone else from making that product, and pays the lions share of the bill, thus allowing for the rediculous overcharge which a free market would not support. It's these extra billions big pharm mis making which makes them able to throw hookers at doctors, which is where the decision on your perscription really got made. Should there be govt? sure. Limited govt. which makes little rules that prevent drug companies from bribing doctors. But in general, since Bayer, and Now Foods aren't doing it, I humbly suggest that without the big payoffs this might not be a problem. One doctor only perscribe so many pills for a particular condition. It's only worth throwing a hooker at him if those are hundreds of dollars a hit.

The power of the corporations that you site is handed to them daily by the federal govt. Govt. keeps the price of oil high, and even hands free oil to the oil companies, thus, big money. It does what it can to interfere in any competing technologies (did you notice the import laws on cars? Toyota Prius was originally going to ship with 250mpg, until govt. regulation parred that down.) Or knocking stem cell research.

Govt. doesn't keep corporations in check, govt. keeps corporations in monopolistic megapower (it's not without govt. support that the walmart fungus grew.)

The free market will keep corporations in check. It's a far more democratic system than the govt. we have. If you don't want a service, you don't buy that service. Simple as that. All govt. should be doing is making sure that competition stays alive and that no one goes out and hires the mossad to remove their competitors.

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Friday, September 8, 2006 4:34 AM

Rue,

Halliburton is Clinton's baby. Who set Halliburton up with it's sweet deal position in the US military? Who fought the first wars for Halliburton? Who had secret meetings with Dick Cheney to set up the Halliburton take over? When did Halliburton become the tail that wagged the dog?

It all happened in 1995, and Bill Clinton was doing the driving, and Dick Cheney was CEO of Halliburton. Bush is just an heir to the Clinton throne.

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Friday, September 8, 2006 4:38 AM

Auraptor,

I read the webpage. But the fair tax is hardly a new idea. This has been dancing about for years in Europe, where it's called the VAT. If you think it aids commerce than think again. Not tons of euro-exports headed out way. Big govt. is to blame, slowing down the overall european economy, and the particular place where big govt. is a vampire in europe is on the VAT, or fair tax as its US proponents call it. I think this one is a proven failure. Like socialism. I'd like to move on to new ideas before we go through the horrid rigamarole of installing a completely new tax system.

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Friday, September 8, 2006 5:02 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Citizen,

I said I'm not getting baited in to your flame war. You are now the troll I have decided not to feed. 90% of everything you say is cr@p. Probably 100% of what you just posted re: me is wrong.

You were the one who started throwing around insults, you're the troll.

100% of everything you say is crap, and everything you said about me, just like everything you ever say is wrong.

Quote:
I think this one is a proven failure. Like socialism.

Pure capitalism as a system on it's own is also a failiure, but you won't hear that from this dickheads face, and he won't debate the idea because it knows it's wrong.

From now on I will treat you with the contempt you show everyone else. I will only lie to foster a bull shit point of view I know to be wrong, basically treating you the same as you treat everyone else.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, September 8, 2006 5:23 AM