religious freedom and politics by NewOldBrownCoat

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

religious freedom and politics

POSTED BY: NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 19:39
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Sunday, September 24, 2006 6:11 PM

I found this on CNN:
Jerry Falwell was at a convention of evangelicals over the weekend.

"I certainly hope that Hillary is the candidate," Falwell said at a breakfast session Friday in Washington. "I hope she's the candidate, because nothing will energize my (constituency) like Hillary Clinton," he said. "If Lucifer ran, he wouldn't."

There's an Episcopalian church here in California, about to lose it's tax-exempt status because a minister there preached a sermon on the religious immorality of the war in Iraq. The IRS thinks it was too political.

I wanta see if they'll go after Jerry, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. It's only "too political" when it's not on their side

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Sunday, September 24, 2006 8:15 PM

SOUPCATCHER

If only I had a dollar for every kooky comment Falwell has made over the years. I could definitely fill up my truck's gas tank

.

To go off on two tangents...

I just don't understand the Hillary hatred. It's like a cottage industry of the right wing. They live in constant fear of Hillary as President. Why? Where is her support? Maybe it's just that I spend too much time in left blogistan but her inside-the-beltway faux centrism rubs a lot of progressives the wrong way. She definitely does not have the support of the liberal wing of the Democratic party. Every straw poll I've seen of 2008 Democratic Presidential candidates has her running in the bottom third (Russ Feingold usually does pretty well in these polls). Granted, the left side of the netroots is much more liberal than the Democratic party as a whole. And, also, she sure manages to raise a boat load of cash for a Senate race that is uncontested and she has a warchest like nobody's business. But where the heck is the support coming from? I personally can't imagine voting for her. (But then, I didn't vote for her husband in either election and he did a pretty good job running the country - not perfect by a long shot, I have a lot of complaints - but overall better than the current occupant of the White House). So I just don't get it.

The second tangent. I'm sick and tired of all these lazy evangelicals who want to get the government to help them convert Americans to their denomination of Christianity. What the hell happened to a judicious suspicion of government? Instead of relief that a strong separation between church and state will allow them to practice their own brand of religion without interference, and a constant eye of vigilance to make sure that wall stays intact, they are rushing headlong towards tearing down as much of that wall as they can in an effort to co-opt the infrastructure of government for proselytizing. Unless you're a Southern Baptist there's no way in hell your denomination is going to win out in that battle for denomination domination. I just don't get why forcing everyone's children to pray to your God in public school is considered a good thing. Or forcing everyone's children to learn how your God created the world is a good thing. Or forcing everyone to celebrate your religious holidays is a good thing. Or forcing everyone to stop working on your day of worship is a good thing (oh, yeah, we tried that already - although I'm pretty keen on not working). What kind of lazy ass thinks that they can pawn off their missionary duties on the federal government? Whatever happened to living your life as an example and, if people ask you, then witnessing? Why are they beating people over the head with their religion?

Okay, rant off. I'm just utterly perplexed. Maybe it's because I grew up in a fundamentalist faith where we just knew that persecution would come at the hands of the government in the end times. Run to the hills and all that.

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Monday, September 25, 2006 5:35 AM

FELLOWTRAVELER

Rev. Falwell has publicly endorsed candidates for over 20 years now. If the IRS were going to go after him, they would have already.

Edit- Another example of how this is partisan:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060922/ap_on_el_ge/evangelical_voters_3

Quote:
...Conservative Christian groups have started trying to mobilize evangelical voters this fall by focusing on issues such as gay marriage and abortion. A "Values Voters" summit that has attracted several potential 2008 presidential candidates gets under way Friday in Washington.

The Colorado-based Focus on the Family has started voter registration drives in eight states, according to the group's Web site. The Southern Baptist Convention is helping promote a Focus on the Family DVD about gay marriage.

The DVD and booklet about gay marriage entitled "Why Not Gay Marriage?" aims to "equip Christians with answers to some of the most often asked questions in the gay marriage debate."

How this is different that a church with an anti-war message is beyond me...

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Monday, September 25, 2006 9:11 AM

MISBEHAVEN

When it comes to Falwell, I think the only people that actually listen to that imbecile are the the sheep who follow him. But it'll be interesting to see how many Republicans, if any at all, denounce his commentary. More than a few Democrats spoke out in defense of Bush after Chavez's comments at the U.N..

And if I'm not mistaken, I believe Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict have also spoken out about the immorality of the Iraq War as well as numerous Catholic priests, bishops, etc. in the U.S.. If they're going to target a liberal Episcopal church for criticizing the war in Iraq, then they should also target the traditionally more conservative Catholic churchs in the U.S. too. And in all fairness, they should extend this line of reasoning (or the lack thereof) to Islamic mosques, Jewish temples, Buddhist temples, and every other religious faith whose leaders have criticized the war. Of course, we all know they won't.

"The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation."
-Bertrand Russell

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Monday, September 25, 2006 12:43 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
The Colorado-based Focus on the Family has started voter registration drives in eight states, according to the group's Web site.

One of the few reasons to hang my head in shame when I think about where I live...

---
"What the world needs now is love, sweet love - it's the only thing that there's just too little of. What the world needs now is love, sweet love. No, not just for some, but for everyone."

Trouble-Maker in the House!

http://richlabonte.net/tvvote

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Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:39 PM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
The second tangent. I'm sick and tired of all these lazy evangelicals who want to get the government to help them convert Americans to their denomination of Christianity. What the hell happened to a judicious suspicion of government? Instead of relief that a strong separation between church and state will allow them to practice their own brand of religion without interference, and a constant eye of vigilance to make sure that wall stays intact, they are rushing headlong towards tearing down as much of that wall as they can in an effort to co-opt the infrastructure of government for proselytizing. Unless you're a Southern Baptist there's no way in hell your denomination is going to win out in that battle for denomination domination. I just don't get why forcing everyone's children to pray to your God in public school is considered a good thing. Or forcing everyone's children to learn how your God created the world is a good thing. Or forcing everyone to celebrate your religious holidays is a good thing. Or forcing everyone to stop working on your day of worship is a good thing (oh, yeah, we tried that already - although I'm pretty keen on not working). What kind of lazy ass thinks that they can pawn off their missionary duties on the federal government? Whatever happened to living your life as an example and, if people ask you, then witnessing? Why are they beating people over the head with their religion?

Okay, rant off. I'm just utterly perplexed. Maybe it's because I grew up in a fundamentalist faith where we just knew that persecution would come at the hands of the government in the end times. Run to the hills and all that.

i think you answered your own question... but id really like to make this point clear to everybody: at the end of the age, the majority of the church is under a strong delusion, and essentially worships a false christ- this allows for the rise of the final system of the beast. this should tell you something... if we are in the times of the end, then the predominant view of judeo-christianity is FALSE, according to prophecy; so therefore the churches actions are not wholly justified, and in many ways opposed to Gods will. in essence, it is an antichristianity, that comes from within the church, which comes to fruition in the end times, decieving even the elect "if it were possible". i am not judging christians by their actions, but identifying what the scriptures say.. to be aware of false teachers and their destruction. this is another reason why the true doctrines of freemasonry is soo relevant, as many Americans dont recognize that its a religion, and many masons themselves dont recognize that its in truth luciferian; therefore America herself has become an apostate nation(just as mystery Babylon of the end of the age)

if you want my opinion, i believe that a significant portion of American christianity is under this end times delusion of antichrist, and is fullfilling this agenda unintentionally by supporting this "war on terror" that is being propogated by the phony christians on the right. mark my words and watch.. because following the next terror attack in AMerica, it will be these same people who give up the last vestages of true liberty and sovereignty to the government; and will turn on people like myself, who dissent against the government and its lies and decietfull politics... meanwhile christianity will continue to become antichristian until Jesus' returns to redeem mankind; this is what the prophecy says! so all of you outsiders out there, understand that things are not as simple as they seem, and if you dissent against the establishment view, you too will be persecuted because the world is coming under the greatest delusion in history

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