Opera cancelled out of fear of Muslim extremists by NewOldBrownCoat

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Opera cancelled out of fear of Muslim extremists

POSTED BY: NEWOLDBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Thursday, October 13, 2022 11:30
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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:39 AM

Long and complex story, I'm gonna simplify some details.

The manager of the Berlin Opera has cancelled a production of an opera by Mozart, because of a scene the director put in, where the King has the heads of Mohammed, Buddha, Christ and Poseidon brought to him. German cops think it might upset Muslims and cause violence.

Now, while I don't believe in pre censorship, this scene sounds like it was put in there , deliberately, to offend everybody. Maybe somebody should have told the director that it shouldn't be put in?

The director claims that the scene may not be removed, because it expreses his disapproval of all religions.

Maybe he oughtta stand in front of the building with a bulls-eye around his neck, if he feels that strongly about it.

Meanwhile, I wonder how Mozart would feel about this addition to his opera , which has been around for 270 years. How did it survive so long without this scene, which he never got around to writing?

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:47 AM

KELKHIL

That is the problem with people nowadays. they can't seem to keep their opinions out of stuff. Even if it is not their work to begin with.

Who does this guy think he is? Must have a really big ego to think that he needed to change an Opera by Mozart and then refusing to take the scene out when he was told it would cancel the show.

Kelkhil

The Shirtless Forsaken

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:55 AM

TRISTAN

Quick questions...they decided to cancel so as not to offend only the Muslims? Did they think about the Buddhists, Christians, and worshippers of the old gods? Why are they just worried about the Muslims? Seems that scene would offend lots of people, eh? While I may not agree with the director's choice, I am kind of struck by the reason for cancelling. Am I the only one thinking this?

______________________________________

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:02 AM

KELKHIL

I think it is because the entire world is affraid of the Muslims at the moment. The world has become so afraid that anything that could be deemed as off color on that religion is frowned upon.

I read a post from one of my favorite writers (Kevin Smith) about 2 months ago. He said that he concidered doing a Dogma 2 (if you have not seen Dogma I reccomend it. Good fun there) but was afraid for his family because it was going to attck all religions and he did not want the muslims angry with him. He knew it was absured but the fear was there so he scrubbed the whole project.

Kelkhil

The Shirtless Forsaken

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:04 AM

FELLOWTRAVELER

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
Quick questions...they decided to cancel so as not to offend only the Muslims? Did they think about the Buddhists, Christians, and worshippers of the old gods? Why are they just worried about the Muslims? Seems that scene would offend lots of people, eh? While I may not agree with the director's choice, I am kind of struck by the reason for cancelling. Am I the only one thinking this.

No, you aren't. But, Muslims will blow up the theater or murder people if they are offended. Buddhists, Christians, and Pagans will not...

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:09 AM

TRISTAN

It's odd to me that the entire world could be afraid of the reaction of a single religion. I do realize this is the truth, unfortunately, but there's not alot that can be done to change that opinion. Anger, hatred, and intolerance...

______________________________________

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:43 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
Quick questions...they decided to cancel so as not to offend only the Muslims?

The German cops reccommended closing it on that basis. The manager went along.

You are right, of course, but given the tone of the times, I don't blame them

______________________________________

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:45 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Kelkhil:

I read a post from one of my favorite writers (Kevin Smith) about 2 months ago. He said that he concidered doing a Dogma 2 (if you have not seen Dogma I reccomend it. Good fun there) but was afraid for his family because it was going to attck all religions and he did not want the muslims angry with him. He knew it was absured but the fear was there so he scrubbed the whole project.

Kelkhil

The Shirtless Forsaken

I love Dogma. I'd go see Dogma 2. sorry he cancelled it...

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:51 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:

where the King has the heads of Mohammed, Buddha, Christ and Poseidon brought to him.

The director claims that the scene may not be removed, because it expreses his disapproval of all religions.

gonna respond to my own post here-- I just realized something.

The King didn't have a head of Moses ( or Yahweh)...
maybe all religions doesn't include Judaism?
Maybe the Guy's a Zionist with a plot against Arabs?

( Not sure whether there should be a smiley here or not. Not sure whether I'm serious about the observation or the reaction to it)

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:52 AM

FELLOWTRAVELER

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
It's odd to me that the entire world could be afraid of the reaction of a single religion. I do realize this is the truth, unfortunately, but there's not alot that can be done to change that opinion. Anger, hatred, and intolerance...

Sorry man. I wasn't trying to be hateful or intolerant, but I realize it came off that way. I do know that the majority of Muslims are good, honest, peaceful, people and it is the crackpots who get the headlines. I'm not wearing Klan outfit. I promise!

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:00 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

You know, if Bush wasn't so busy fanning the flames of extremist Islam, and if there was real international cooperation on terrorism instead of the Iraq debacle, this wouldn't be an issue. Extremist Muslims wouldn't be so primed, and any problems that might arise would be handled.

Instead, what the world is now facing is a 'primed' and growing extremist Islam, and international disorganization. THANKS ! Mr Bush, for your contributions to world peace !

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:18 AM

TRISTAN

FellowTraveler, that was not aimed at you! That was a general

with the world! I have also noticed that the majority of the bad things attributed to any group or religion are perpetrated by a minority and blamed on the majority.

______________________________________

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:38 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
German cops think it might upset Muslims and cause violence.

Note, no one thought that Christians, Buddhist or ancient Greeks would be so upset that they'd cause any violence, but only Muslims.

Likely the same Muslims who rioted and killed to defend their religion of PEACE after Pope Benedict rightly and properly called for a dialogue with Islam over those who committ violence in that religions name.

hmm........

This is one of the very few situations where I agree with Bill Maher per religion.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:34 AM

JONNYQUEST

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"

I usually don't lurk over here much, but once in a while I stray. Just wanted to bring up one observation that it looks like we danced around but didn't quite make. Pope Benedict is German. Could be that the director might have just a tad bit more sensitivity about the issue this week than he might have earlier in the month? The Pope-inspired violence was prompted by an ill-advised (uh oh, do I sense the Catholics among us lighting there arrows for the flame war to ensue?) source to quote, not as a result of the call to the table.

And I never have to agree with Bill Maher to enjoy his show immensely.

"Well, here I am."

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 1:53 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by FellowTraveler:
No, you aren't. But, Muslims will blow up the theater or murder people if they are offended. ...Christians,... will not...

Come now, don't sell Christians short, sure they do.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 1:56 PM

SUCCATASH

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 2:24 PM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You know, if Bush wasn't so busy fanning the flames of extremist Islam, and if there was real international cooperation on terrorism instead of the Iraq debacle, this wouldn't be an issue. Extremist Muslims wouldn't be so primed, and any problems that might arise would be handled.

Instead, what the world is now facing is a 'primed' and growing extremist Islam, and international disorganization. THANKS ! Mr Bush, for your contributions to world peace !

Ruse,
What rubbish. The Muslim extremists had started upping their violence every year for the last 30 or so years. Were we in Iraq when they first bombed Trade Towers in 93, the USS Cole, Embassies, trade centers in 2001? no. They had been getting more and more violent before Bush came along. What do you think they would have done by now if not for America going on the offensive? And Ruse, that is pretty off topic. Just you spewing your Anti-American garbage.

They should not cancel an opera over the perceived possibility of violence. Maybe, just maybe, the Muslims would have just shook their heads like the other religions and said..What an A**hole.

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 2:29 PM

KANEMAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
FellowTraveler, that was not aimed at you! That was a general with the world! I have also noticed that the majority of the bad things attributed to any group or religion are perpetrated by a minority and blamed on the majority.

______________________________________

That is a fairy tale. Have you ever seen the "Muslim Street" in action or listened to the average Muslim's rhetoric..They are violent and they hate you.

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:03 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Quote:
Ruse,
What rubbish. The Muslim extremists had started upping their violence every year for the last 30 or so years. Were we in Iraq when they first bombed Trade Towers in 93, the USS Cole, Embassies, trade centers in 2001? no. They had been getting more and more violent before Bush came along. What do you think they would have done by now if not for America going on the offensive? And Ruse, that is pretty off topic. Just you spewing your Anti-American garbage.

I was waiting for you to say this. What took you so long?

So. Where did I excuse Islamic extremists? Please quote me! What I was pointing out was that Bush's response to an existing problem has made it worse. It 1) foments more extremists than it neutralizes, 2) fractures allies, and 3) does not focus on international police cooperation as it needs to. Bush has earned criticism for his less than stellar choices. Expecting a minimally competent US president does not make me anti-US.

added - My frustration comes from the fact that I want this problem to be solved. I WANT Germany, or the US, or the rest of the world, to be able to treat extremist Islam as a small, isolated, well-contained problem. I WANT countries to be able to tell religious extremists of ANY type to take a hike. Don't like it? Tough. Grow thicker skin. Oh, and that includes the US conservative Christians as well. Don't like the NEA? Too bad. Don't like evolution? That's a pity.

This problem of religious extremism should and COULD be solved. Except Bush is not. He's actually making it worse. Spoiling for a fight between 'cultures'.

So, do you want the problem solved, canker sore? Or do you just want to dive into your partisan delusions?

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 5:36 PM

KANEMAN

I will apologize if I misread your post(don't get used to it). I want what you want. I would only add; that the line in the sand was first drawn by Islamic extremists. We all know what they want. How do we counter that? I don't know. Shit I have my hands full just trying to teach pigs to walk on all fours

enjoy tomorrow Ruse.

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:00 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

OhMiGawd, they're offended by everything. Now the absolute center of American culture is threatened... :<)

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Wednesday, September 27, 2006 9:51 PM

FREMDFIRMA

You ever stop to think that perhaps a good part of why muslims react that way is that they're scared shitless ?

For crying out loud, we're trying to annihilate them, and they can't lose face by admitting that any more than a bushido could, and so they react with shrill rage at such things.

I'm not excusin it, i'm explainin it.

As for pagans not reacting violently towards such things ?
To quote Jayne - "Ya might wanna rethink that last part.."
I for one would not provoke certain of em, they're not all neo-ager fluff bunnies, and messing with some sects could lead to bad juju, or at least a battleaxe upside the head.

Not to mention the slightest bit of research will show that christians in general, particularly catholics, wig out just as bad, just in a less organized fashion when their own belief is mocked.

About the only folk who don't get pissy when you go mocking their beliefs are the followers of the church of the subgenious, who will gleefully HELP you mock it.... straaange people, them.

-Frem

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Thursday, September 28, 2006 6:09 AM

FELLOWTRAVELER

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Not to mention the slightest bit of research will show that christians in general, particularly catholics, wig out just as bad, just in a less organized fashion when their own belief is mocked.

-Frem

Muslims have some legitimate grievances, no doubt about it.

But regarding the above statement: What are some recent examples of Catholics or Christians reacting violently when someone offends their faith. They get pissy, sure. They boycot. They write letters. But, I can't think of recent examples of them blowing shit up.

There is no doubt that there is terrorism committed by Christians (thinking Iraq war, looking in your direction President Bush), but that's not the same thing as Christian terrorism.

For example, I was watching "The Last Temptation of Christ" (two thumbs up) and this is a movie that offended Christians. I know they threatened violence, but they did not commit any. Earlier this year, "The Davinci Code" (two thumbs down) was released to widespread Catholic criticism, but I don't recall any theaters being bombed. Earlier in this thread somebody mentioned "Dogma" (two up) and Kevin Smith. I know he received several death threats, but he was not attacked. In the last two weeks, NBC has broadcast "Studio 60" which contained several digs at Christians, but nobody has blown up Rockefeller Center. Madonna was in Rome earlier this year offending Catholics with a mock crucifixion, but the Catholics let her go on her way. Finally, in the story on which this post is based, the Germans canceled the opera because of fears of Muslim violence, not Christian.

Even the more famous homegrown terrorist attacks in the States, Rudolph and OKC, were not committed because somebody offended their Christian sensibilities.

Look, I'm smart enough to know that I'm dumb enough to be biased and recent examples might exist, I am just not aware of any...

EDIT: I've googled and googled and the only the only recent example I can find is the "Nagaland Rebels", which is a separatist movement that happens to be Christian, but there motivation is not being offended. I think there is a group in the Philippines, but they are a separatist movement as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_terrorism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

http://www.answers.com/topic/christian-extremist-terrorism

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Tuesday, October 3, 2006 8:25 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

time for an update on this.
The German establishment ( artists, media, academics and politicians. ) has gotten involved.

They're screaming about freedom of expression, and demanding that the show must go on, with enhanced security.

This is smart. Do something probably offensive; then cancel it, announcing what you were planning to the whole world, making sure the folks you would offend hear about it; then decide to do it after all.

THEY ALL oughtta be walking around on the street with bulls-eyes hung around their necks

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:08 AM

PARTICIPANT

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
You know, if Bush wasn't so busy fanning the flames of extremist Islam, and if there was real international cooperation on terrorism instead of the Iraq debacle, this wouldn't be an issue. Extremist Muslims wouldn't be so primed, and any problems that might arise would be handled.

Instead, what the world is now facing is a 'primed' and growing extremist Islam, and international disorganization. THANKS ! Mr Bush, for your contributions to world peace !

Ruse,
What rubbish. The Muslim extremists had started upping their violence every year for the last 30 or so years. Were we in Iraq when they first bombed Trade Towers in 93, the USS Cole, Embassies, trade centers in 2001? no. They had been getting more and more violent before Bush came along. What do you think they would have done by now if not for America going on the offensive? And Ruse, that is pretty off topic. Just you spewing your Anti-American garbage.

They should not cancel an opera over the perceived possibility of violence. Maybe, just maybe, the Muslims would have just shook their heads like the other religions and said..What an A**hole.

The ECHR has barred crucifixes in Italian state schools. Are Nativity plays next?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/willheaven/100015859/the-eu-has-barr
ed-crucifixes-in-italian-state-schools-are-nativity-plays-next/
An Italian atheist mother has won an European court ruling against the use of crucifixes in her local state school. The story has caused outrage in Italy, with Berlusconi’s government and the Vatican agreeing that the ruling was “shameful”, “short-sighted” and offensive to Italy’s national identity.

Ms Soile Lautsi, a Finnish-born Italian national, felt that the crucifixes were “contrary to the principle of secularism by which she wished to bring up her children”, and asked for them to be removed. The school – quite rightly – refused her request on the grounds that crucifixes have been in Italian state schools since the 1920s, and are as much a national symbol as they are a religious one. So she took the complaint first to the Italian High Court, and then to the European Court of Human Rights. The latter ruled as follows:

The presence of the crucifix – which it was impossible not to notice in the classrooms – could easily be interpreted by pupils of all ages as a religious sign and they would feel that they were being educated in a school environment bearing the stamp of a given religion. This could be encouraging for religious pupils, but also disturbing for pupils who practised other religions or were atheists, particularly if they belonged to religious minorities…

Fort Hood: Analyze it, don’t sanitize it
http://www.irshadmanji.com/im-fort-hood-analyze-it-dont-sanitize-it

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:52 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Were we in Iraq when they first bombed Trade Towers in 93, the USS Cole, Embassies, trade centers in 2001?

Actually, yes. Little thing called the First Gulf War. You may have heard of it. Made some of the papers.

Then we left people to enforce the "No-Fly Zones".

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 6:53 AM

KWICKO

Quote:

The ECHR has barred crucifixes in Italian state schools. Are Nativity plays next?

Sounds like a good start.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:25 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I feel you should be able to offend anyone, anywhere, and live free from violence.

And I feel that violence committed by offended religions or organizations should be lamented and resisted at every opportunity.

When I find that entertainment and the arts in America is threatened by extremists, I am always tempted to produce more of the offensive material.

This is one of the reasons I actually consider South Park to be making a positive impact on a culture of free speech and tolerance.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:32 AM

PARTICIPANT

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
[
maybe all religions doesn't include Judaism?
Maybe the Guy's a Zionist with a plot against Arabs?

( Not sure whether there should be a smiley here or not. Not sure whether I'm serious about the observation or the reaction to it)

no you can't blame the Israeli Jews for this one

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:49 AM

BYTEMITE

Um... In regards to whoever keeps changing this thread title, I checked the only response Frem made in this thread, and I'm sorry, explaining the behaviour and rationale of Muslim extremists does not qualify to me as anti-semitism.

Calling the Muslim religion a religion of violence is, however, anti-Muslim. It's also not true, the Quran actually has some very specific consequences for people who kill innocent bystanders, particularly women and children. The Ayatollahs and mullahs who rile up their suicide bombers kind of gloss over that. No 72 virgins for them.

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 7:55 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Um... In regards to whoever keeps changing this thread title, I checked the only response Frem made in this thread, and I'm sorry, explaining the behaviour and rationale of Muslim extremists does not qualify to me as anti-semitism.

It's retaliation for having called out them and their sockpuppets in the Going Rogue thread - basically screaming, harrassment and suchlike, you know, the very tactics they are railing against when used by others ?

All cause I dared disagree with them and their hate spouting - really, what makes them any different than the extremists they hate save for a lack of personnel and firepower ?

-F

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Tuesday, November 24, 2009 8:27 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Um... In regards to whoever keeps changing this thread title, I checked the only response Frem made in this thread, and I'm sorry, explaining the behaviour and rationale of Muslim extremists does not qualify to me as anti-semitism.

Calling the Muslim religion a religion of violence is, however, anti-Muslim. It's also not true, the Quran actually has some very specific consequences for people who kill innocent bystanders, particularly women and children. The Ayatollahs and mullahs who rile up their suicide bombers kind of gloss over that. No 72 virgins for them.

Look back up at Participant's first response on this thread since he dug it up and necroposted on it. Notice the thread title, which makes its first appearance there. I think you have your answer.

I tried to put it back close to what it originally was. Hopefully it stuck.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Thursday, October 13, 2022 11:30 AM

JAYNEZTOWN

British Library to host Salman Rushdie celebration event
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/oct/10/british-library-salman-r
ushdie-celebration-event

The religion of islam was founded by a dead pedophile terrorist from 1400 years ago, the years 570 – 632 AD he was a Low IQ illiterate psychotic guy in Arabia who prayed to a demonic Moongod, a guy who ordered people massacred and tortured to death, he raped animals, sucked the tongue of little boys and the criminal pedophile moohammad married a 6 yr old girl named Aisha.

moslims are told that he is the perfect 'prophet' and the shit know as the Quran or Koran is called the perfect book

questioning the crap in the Koran or Quran or other crap islamo texts is often met with death threats

that is not to say all moslems are terrorists but their 'religion' is terrorist pedophile trash.

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