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Originally posted by Skywalken:
At a campaign rally yesterday, the presidential candidate of the Democratic Party said this: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Here's the video:

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Originally posted by rue:
"If anyone thinks a veteran would criticize the more than 140,000 heroes serving in Iraq and not the president who got us stuck there, they're crazy," Kerry said. "I'm not going to be lectured by a stuffed suit White House mouthpiece standing behind a podium, or doughy Rush Limbaugh, who no doubt today will take a break from belittling Michael J. Fox's Parkinson's disease to start lying about me just as they have lied about Iraq."

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Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'll be the first (percieved) left-type to say it,
BOY WAS THAT A DUMB THING TO SAY.

Unless context proves different, it was almost worthy of Rush.

Open mouth- insert foot Chrisisall

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Originally posted by Skywalken:
At a campaign rally yesterday, the presidential candidate of the Democratic Party in 2004 said this: "You know, education, if you make the most of it, if you study hard and you do your homework, and you make an effort to be smart, uh, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

Here's the video:

]

First of all, I can tell nothing by that few second sound bite. I would like to hear the entire speech.

As for belittling the servicemen and women. It is a fact that the military is peopled in the majority by poor and/or minority men and women who often do not have the option for anything else. I think it tells a sad truth. Have money and/or opportunity - do well in America, don't and get blown up in Iraq.


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Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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You're just taking his words out of context, if you haven't heard every word he's ever said you can't possibly understand what he means. What, someone had to say it.

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Originally posted by Razza:
For those of you who are interested in learning more about the actual demographic makeup of the US Military, here is a link to a population report published by the Population Reference Bureau ( www.prb.org). The latest information is a few years old, but it's a pretty comprehensive report and interesting to look at.

http://www.prb.org/pdf04/59.4AmericanMilitary.pdf

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Originally posted by Eric:
Nice try conservatards. What he's saying is that if you're uneducated and not independently wealthy your options are severely limited, and you're much more likely to end up fighting a rich man's war.

WHICH IS FUCKING TRUE.

Military recruiters consistently target children who are poor and not college-bound because they are more likely to join up. That is not a secret. Joining the military should be through free choice, not economic or educational coersion, but that just isn't the reality of it.

Do you really want your freedom to spout ignorant right wing bullshit to be defended by people who simply don't have anything better lined up?

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Originally posted by SignyM:

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You're just taking his words out of context, if you haven't heard every word he's ever said you can't possibly understand what he means. What, someone had to say it.

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HAHAHAHAHA!!! The Limbaugh defense. Thanks Citizen for pointing out the right-wing double standard. Always ready to crucify the left, always ready to forgive the right.


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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's funny as hell to see the Dimwads try to spin this, but no one is buying it. John McCain has called for an apology from Kerry to the troops, as has President Bush.

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
It's funny as hell to see the Dimwads try to spin this, but no one is buying it. John McCain has called for an apology from Kerry to the troops, as has President Bush.

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I think that was my point.

for Rush as well

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Originally posted by Eric:
Well, that didn't take long. Page 9:

"Enlistment is also predicted by parents’
education (children of collegeeducated
parents are less likely to
serve), high school grades (those with
higher grades are less likely to serve),
college plans (college students are less
likely to enlist), race and ethnicity
(African Americans and Hispanics are
more likely to serve than whites), and
attractiveness of military work roles."

Wow, Kerry is such a pussy coward bastard! He actually said....something true.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

It's not true, and I know it, as I bet you know it too. Kerry said EXACTLY what he meant, and it's coming back to bite him. There is no draft today. There is no 'need' to join the military for those who don't wish to. We have a 100% volunteer military. A college education is by no means a ticket to a life of ease and leisure ( like John Kerry has ).

Per what Kerry actually said, it's clear who he was talking to ( college students ) and what his message was. Stay in school, study hard and get smart, or you'll be shipped to Iraq. He's so full of himself and thinks so highly of his own personal life experiece that he's convinced himself we're back in the 1960's and this is Viet Nam all over again.

It isn't. Kerry is delusional and a complete asshole.


It's funny as hell to see the Dimwads try to spin this, but no one is buying it. John McCain has called for an apology from Kerry to the troops, as has President Bush.

This is just the beginning. It's going to get much worse. For Kerry.

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Originally posted by Razza:
[
Your welcome, I think. (ducking the bird sent my way for no appearant reason)

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Originally posted by Eric:
Actually, I've read that during Vietnam, since there WAS a draft, there was more even representation of social, economic and I'm guessing educational classes than there is now. Unless your rich daddy could get you deferred or in the National Guard, which I believe didn't fight back then.

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Originally posted by Razza:

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Take a look at page 19 of the report, it speaks to the racial disparity during the war. Doesn't really support your assumption, though this is only one source certainly.

"During the Vietnam War, the Kennedy administration departed from past practice and used the draft rather than the overwhelmingly white reserve components to mobilize American forces for Southeast Asia. When Kennedy assumed office, blacks were underrepresented in the military, but the Selective Service System
disproportionately drafted the poor during the early years of the Vietnam War, and black men were overrepresented among the poor. In the early
months of the Vietnam War, blacks accounted for about 20 percent of combat deaths in Vietnam, although they were only 11 percent of the military-age population. The high death toll for black soldiers led to claims of racial injustice—that blacks were fighting and dying to further the interests of white men, while still treated unfairly at home. Some critics saw further injustice in the fact that U.S. blacks were fighting and killing other nonwhites—the Vietnamese. To avoid the appearance of racial discrimination, the Pentagon reduced the assignment of blacks to combat jobs, and combat deaths for blacks fell to about 12 percent, closer to their share of the total U.S. population."

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Okay, but in the later war years, was this still the case? In any case, I'll stipulate to the point since I don't remember where I heard it.

Anyways, I doubt this will change many votes. It's an interpretation of what was said by someone who is not up for reelection, and someone who is by now famous for saying the right thing in the wrong way.

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Originally posted by kaneman:
It's not the October surprise, it's an early Christmas gift..Thanks Kerry...

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Originally posted by Razza:
For those of you who are interested in learning more about the actual demographic makeup of the US Military, here is a link to a population report published by the Population Reference Bureau ( www.prb.org).
http://www.prb.org/pdf04/59.4AmericanMilitary.pdf

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Originally posted by rue:
I skimmed through it looking for some data on the socioeconomic status of volunteers. While the document makes of point of saying you have to be a high school graduate, it's coy about providing any figures at all, like, for example, household income and employment status.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

John Kerry is a coward and a liar. He said what he said, and he doesn't even have the balls to admit he's wrong. What a fucking pussy.

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But Rush never had to spin his words.

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Elegantly stated as usual. Although I guess you need to vent a little after the beating you took on the MJ Fox thread.

Well, as one of the token liberals, I'm sure you're ready for me to defend Kerry. Get set for disappointment AURaptor, because I'm not going to. I've only seen a ten second clip on CNN, but it was one of the most foolish things a politician has said since...oh, I don't know...Bush last spoke.

What really fascinates me, however, is your complete inability to recognize that you are now doing the very thing you were accusing so many others of doing on the MJ Fox thread. Rush tried to spin his way out of the MJ Fox comments, and Kerry is going to try and spin his way out of his remarks. While you were more than willing to accept Rush's spin, you're attacking Kerry for trying the same thing. Here's where we differ: I won't defend a politician or a political pundit who makes asinine statements, and then attempts to spin his way out of it.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:



What amazes me is the need for some folks to try to equate everything as being exactly equal. Kerry's comments = Rush's comments. Sorry, but the 2 are light years apart.

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I took no 'beating' on the MJ Fox thread.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

But we HAVE heard every word Kerry said, and unlike Rush, who stood by his remarks...

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Rush apologized to those who mistook what he said...

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Originally posted by FellowTraveler:

Well, which one is it, chief? Because it can't be both.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
[B
I took no 'beating' on the MJ Fox thread. But keep thinking that, if it helps ya sleep better at night.

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