Is 'Kramer' a racist? by CrevanReaver

In case you haven't heard Michael Richards aka "Kramer" has recently got into a racial controversy.

Opinions!

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 1:19 AM

KANEMAN

Yes, he wasn't being funny at all. He was angry and showed his true feelings......But, he has the right to be racist I guess....In the name of tolerance and all. We can toss him into that closet of hate and forget about him. I know that closet is getting full. Just ask the environmentalists or the homosexuals to make room for a fellow racist, bigoted, and hate filled asshole.......Oh, while you are at it, ask them not to prance naked around our city streets when making their points...Gotta protect the children, Ya know?

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 9:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Compare the treatment Richards gets to that of Mel Gibson. It'll be interesting to see how the media vilifies 'Kramer', and if it reaches the same level. Gibson was drunk, while Richards was performing on stage. Were it not for the video, would he have ever even apologized ?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 2:59 PM

No Michael Richards will not be villified to the level that Gibson has been. MSM hypocrisy at its ugliest.

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 4:25 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I'm curious about why anyone cares about either. Mebee you can explain what's the point.

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 4:35 PM

Irish people do like to drink and fight. Their motto is no pig to big. Good example Ted Kennendy.

You fog things up. You always have.

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 4:53 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Irish people do like to drink and fight." Now that's funny - talk about racist stereotypes.

Don't be confused now - I'm laughing at you, not with you.

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 5:00 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

But I'm STILL curious about why anyone cares about either Mel or Kramer. Since you all seem to have an opinion on what - to me - is completely inane - mebee you can explain what's the point.

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 6:18 PM

People who get older go through changes some such as mid life crisis or just a nervous breakdown. Now his mother recently died. I think he just snapped and I listen to a black comic on tv thinks the same thing. His mother played in alot of westerns. Alot of people have the stump of biggotry in them thats life. Part of being a Man is grow some thick skin. Family deaths sometimes change people so much it takes alot of healing. Steve Irwin wife is going to take along time to heal. Cosmos's pocket book will suffer. I like bashing Irish people cause its fun.

I like smacken em.

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 7:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by PirateCat:
Irish people do like to drink and fight. Their motto is no pig to big. Good example Ted Kennendy.

Oh, yeah? You want to fight about it?

If calling someone a "nigger" made the caller a racist, almost all 'gangsta rappers' and their audience would be racists. My guess is that Richards was just angry and used language that expressed that anger. That's not racism. It is although often ill-advised.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 7:39 PM

ANTIMASON

i couldnt see the video, but he used to appear regularly on the Bill Handel(kfian640.com) show in LA, and this shows motive is political incorrectness, and i noticed the two share a lot of charachteristics. i havent seen or heard of what he said specifically, but if he was making a bad joke, then maybe it should be looked at in that context or something.

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:08 PM

Oh, yeah? You want to fight about it?

Anytime whiskey breath. I'll send you and your green teeth mother back to the land of fairies. Long Shanks had you potato pickers figured out. Rosie O'Donnell is one your halloween queens. Whoo Baby love those Irish snaggle tooth keg bellies. Hmm baby the trailor's rockin tonight. So young so much anger.

Like its gonna matter.

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 9:09 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"I like bashing Irish people cause its fun." You like having people laugh at you ????? : raised eyebrows :

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Tuesday, November 21, 2006 10:45 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

***Warning - There is a lot of swearing in this post, so for the moms and the weak of heart, don't come to me about my language if you choose to read this. This issue infuriates me and I swear simply because I don't know how else to fully explain how infuriated I am. Let's face it... if I was to use big words, most likely nobody would read past the first sentence or they wouldn't understand the words necessary to fully illustrate the utter bull of this situation and others like it. There are other things in here that somebody will probably find offensive. I'm surely going to use the "N" word a lot, but I will not be censoring myself at all past where you see five stars (like this:*****). I stand by my words and I will never apologize for them.... so don't bother asking.*****

Michael Richards is not a racist. At least you can't tell from this one little outburst... Consider the circumstances. He was fucking pissed off and he had every fucking right to get angry. Could he have chosen better words? If you're the liberal Newspeak.... ahem.. politically correct media the the answer is a simple yes.

Maybe looking beyond the political correct bullshit, people may realise that somebody who would never even think to use such words to explain somebody may have been driven to that breaking point. How many times have you done something that you wished you hadn't when you were infuriated to the point you couldn't see straight. It is possible that some things have been happening in his life that would make him more prone to this behavior like somebody mentioned earlier. Nobody in here can say that there haven't been days where the littlest thing could sent them off. It happens to the best of us. It's not as if Michael went into the comedy club and said something crass like "oh great, we've got a couple of Niggers in the audience". At least we don't have a video of him doing that. I don't think that many people in this country even think this way anymore except in movies that are still designed to make white people look like intolerant racists and the media who perpetuates this belief.

Michael didn't walk into the situation with that mindset. Truth be told, those knuckle heads were acting like a couple of Niggers. Yeah, I said it. Niggers. There isn't a thing that Michael Richards said there that wasn't true. 50 years ago, they probably would have found themselves a the wrong end of a noose for that behavior. I'm not saying that that fact is justified, on the contrary I think it's abhorrent, but it is still a fact nonetheless.

Take color out of this issue and all Michael did was explode on two ignorant ass-hats and he called it like it was. They were ignorant fucks who probably believe that because of the color of their skin and the hardships their people once knew they're entitled to do anything or say anything or behave any way their impulses desire in any situation, while in the mean time they most likely sit at home and play playstation all day and beat off like a majority of idiot American kids grow up to do. Anybody who goes into a movie theatre and hears "Skeet Skeet Skeet" on a cellphone during the climax of the movie knows what I'm talking about, especially when they turn around to tell them to turn off the phone and they're staring some 17 year old punk white kid in the eyes. It's the fucking blatent inconsiderateness that the mainstream pop rap culture perpetuates and it's that attitude of entitlement and those who choose to portray it and spread it that keeps rubbing people the wrong way and doesn't allow any real progress for racial healing. (And anybody who wants to argue me about the rap and tell me that I don't listen to it, feel free. I listen to a lot of it. Fuck the Police is a very important song in American culture. "Rap" today is neutered and is all about the bling bling and being obnoxious and treating women like objects.)

You know what I have to say to people who feel entitled... to those people who play right into the hands of a Government and Media who wants us divided and smile gleefully as we continue to put a wedge between our races while Big Brother continues to get larger and larger every day and limit our free speech more and more....

"FUCK YOU AND FUCK YOUR HARDSHIPS!"

I was picked on constatnly at school growing up. I was short, I had glasses and braces and I weighed 70lbs in Junior High. I didn't walk around thinking everybody owed me something. I went to the gym, picked up some fucking weights and doubled my weight and then nobody gave me anymore shit. I didn't cry about how unfair life was. If anytyhing, I'm stronger for it.

Dave Chappelle had the right idea to desensitize people to the word Nigger. It's only a bad evil word because we view it that way. If we're going to get over it, we need to face it... not make it forbidden. I know plenty of white Niggers. I grew up with a majority of white people in my life. Those who know me know that I pretty much think lowly of the human race in general, and a majority of that is based off the people I've known... a majority of them being 95% white assholes themselves. If Nigger was a word that we could all use to describe a piece of shit person of any race, then we wouldn't have this little problem and Michael wouldn't be in hot water and apologizing on TV to millions of people for getting mad at two assholes who diserve to have the shit beat out of them. E! might have had a 15 second blurb about how he beat up two hecklers or got his ass whooped by two hecklers and race would never have even been mentioned.

Where is their fucking apologies, by the way? They were the fucking animals in this situation. They were the ones who chose to set it off. If you didn't think he was funny and you didn't want to see the guy, then go somewhere else. I'll tell you where they are... they're either sitting at home with big smiles on thier faces watching Michael Richards apologize for something he shouldn't be apologizing for, or they're sitting in that race-baiting-hate-monger Jessie Jackson's office contemplating how much money they're going to sue him for, for emotional damages. It's like those idiots that go to Karaoke only to make fun of the people who don't sing. Those are the people who never have the nuts to do it themselves so they try to rip other people down to their level of patheticness. I've gotten in fights with people who were making fun of people on the stage before. Fortunately, on both occasions, they were of the white variety of asshole that I mentioned before so it wasn't a hate crime and it was just a legitimate beat down of a guy who really diserved to get smacked around.

So fuck it. I'm sorry you live in a culture where you had to apologize to even have the slightest chance of saving your career Michael, and I feel VERY sorry for you that in todays sick world your career is probably ruined. (And yes, he still had a career.... just not much on TV. Tell me your job is better than a millionare stand-up comedian). They were a couple of Niggers, and now you're the bad guy. I hope they're really happy at ruining your oppurtunity to do what you love to do.

The absolute worst part of this situation we all find ourselves in, is that anyone who chose to could take almost any part of this anti-racist statement (as a whole) that I've made, throw in a couple of elipsies in there and make it look like I'm David Duke and I wear bedsheets with holes for the eyes when I step outside. We're all susceptable to that evil of our media now... All they would have to do is say 10 words from this post and in 30 seconds they could have half the world believing that I'm a racist.

It makes me sick.....

I echo Chris Rock's sentiment and when I say it I would like to exchange the black he used and put in white...

"I love black people, but I hate niggers" - Chris Rock

"I don't even care too much for white people, but I hate white niggers - Mark Greco

I would love to hear opinions on this from anybody... especially our African American (or foreigner!) Browncoats. I would hope that any sane, free thinking individual of any race could agree with this point of view as a whole.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 8:27 AM

CANTTAKESKY

It isn't just the use of the word "nigger."

He also said, "Fifty years ago we’d have you upside down with a fucking fork up your ass."

The point is that he was angry, he wanted to be insulting, and he chose to resort to racial vituperations.

The interesting thing to me is that he insulted black people worse than Mel Gibson insulted Jews. (Alluding to lynching is, to me, a lot worse than blame for all the wars in the world.) And yet Richards seems to be less vilified than Gibson.

Are we, as a society, more tolerant of racial indignities against blacks than Jews?

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

----------
I have left orders to be awakened at any time in case of national emergency, even if I'm in a cabinet meeting.
--Ronald Reagan

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 9:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
Are we, as a society, more tolerant of racial indignities against blacks than Jews?

I think it is probably that the media is biased to the Left. Gibson was more vilified because it was widely known that he was a self-proclaim Conservative Catholic, and in the eyes of much of the media, which is prepared largely by people of a Liberal persuasion, someone who is perceived as a conservative catholic is far more likely to be criticized then someone who is not perceived that way.

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 12:28 PM

SIMONWHO

The reason why Mel got a much bigger reaction is nothing to do with blacks, Jews or relative values. It's because he's a genuine A-List superstar who has made suspect comments about Jews before whereas Michael Richards is someone who had just one successful role in his career.

People will read 50 stories about Mel, but only a couple about Richards. That's how the media works.

Yes, he was being de facto racist because he picked up on those guys being black. Not that they were rude or obnoxious which is actually a pretty common behaviour at comedy clubs, normally followed by the professionally trained comedian absolutely crucifying the heckler (without recourse to racial stereotypes). Seriously, stand-ups responding to hecklers is practically an art form in itself. It was just that Richards was found utterly wanting.

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 1:47 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yeah, the hecklers deserved a serious put-down... but for being jerks. If you resort to racial epithets then you ARE a racist, because you're lumping everyone of color/ language/ gender into one big box.

And you know what? I think EVERYBODY is prejudiced in one way or another. I know I am. And I'm sure that everybody who looks at me see me categorically too. It's a question of HOW MUCH you're prejudiced. Some people are quietly racist. They would never say out loud what they're thinking... but when it comes to renting, hiring, admitting, loaning, or selling to, certain people start off nearer the bottom of the list and they have to work extra-hard to gain in ranking. It's an unfortunate and undeniable truth.

I don't think simple "integration" helps. Just look at the Serbs and Croats, the Hutus and the Tutsis, the Sunnis and the Shias, the German Xtians and German Jews... you can rub elbows for generations and resort to genocide in less than a year.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 4:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
The reason why Mel got a much bigger reaction is...because he's a genuine A-List superstar who has made suspect comments about Jews before...

You claim Gibson's made "suspect comments about Jews before". Could you please tell us what they are. If not then you are a liar. Liar!

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 4:59 PM

JOSSISAGOD

Racist or just SERIOUSLY pissed off, 'cause, he'll never EVER live Kramer down. I don't know, there may have been some over reaction there, but who am I to say.

just an after thought, most dictionaries define a "Nigger" as, "a lazy, insolent and stupid person." Not as a derogatory term used by idiots who thought they were better than other people not of their race.

Please, don't think I'm racist, I'm just citing facts.

Fe'nos Tol
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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Wednesday, November 22, 2006 5:02 PM

Hey Michael next time get the bouncer. I've heckled a few comedians in my time they were'nt funny and I'm paying for this with a 2 drink minimum. He just snapped. America is forgiving. It'll be alright. Hell the injuns forgave the Irish for selling whiskey and guns to em on a Sunday. Hell anybody remember Custer's last stand. That's a July 4 nobody will forget.

I like smacken em.

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 4:50 AM

SIMONWHO

Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
The reason why Mel got a much bigger reaction is...because he's a genuine A-List superstar who has made suspect comments about Jews before...

You claim Gibson's made "suspect comments about Jews before". Could you please tell us what they are. If not then you are a liar. Liar!

Me no lie. Read up on his father here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Gibson

Mel publicly stated that he wouldn't speak out against his father's beliefs.

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 5:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Me no lie. Read up on his father here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Gibson

Mel publicly stated that he wouldn't speak out against his father's beliefs.

So where are these suspicious comments? because unless I’ve missed something all I see here are comments attributed to Gibson’s father, who is not Mel Gibson.

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 1:00 PM

SimonWho, what do you think this is...The Bronze Age. Last time I checked we don't condemn people for the sins of their father.

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Thursday, November 23, 2006 6:00 PM

REGINAROADIE

In regards to all this, I think the actions that Michael has taken in regards to repairing the damaged he's caused is a step in the right direction. As Kramer himself once said on SEINFELD "These comedians, there all sick individuals." The majority of these people have every kind of personal problems and issues that you can think of. And I hope that With Michael, that he is able to fix this.

Because I can live without Mad Max and Martin Riggs and William Wallace. I can't, however, live without Kramer. That character and that show has so much meaning to me and millions of people around the world. And I'd hate to think that I can't watch Kramer on SEINFELD without thinking of this crap.

**************************************************
"We have five million Cybermen. How many are you?"
"Four"
You would destroy the Cybermen with four Daleks?"
"We would destroy the Cybermen with ONE Dalek. You are superior in only one respect."
"What is that?"
"You are better at dying."

Trash talk between a Cyberman and a Dalek. It doesn't get any better than that.

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Saturday, November 25, 2006 7:00 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

This fucking planet is insane.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 1:17 AM

SIMONWHO

Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
SimonWho, what do you think this is...The Bronze Age. Last time I checked we don't condemn people for the sins of their father.

Actually this is the Information Age and we do condemn those who support those who deny the holocaust, as Mel has done.

Plus remember the anti-semitic overtones of Passion of the Christ? The row over that didn't come from nowhere. When Mel was pulled over, the feeling was already out there that he was bigoted against the Jews. We just didn't realise how much.

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 2:52 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
You claim Gibson's made "suspect comments about Jews before". Could you please tell us what they are. If not then you are a liar. Liar!

What a marvelous rebuttal. If you haven't heard about Mels road side rant against Jews that had more than a few hints of Hitlerism in it then you are grossly uninformed. Uninformed type guy!

It's interesting, Finn was accusing people of Anti-Semitism when they had problems with Israels tactics not so long ago, yet when a Conservative Christian is caught it must be media 'Liberal bias' (and when talking American media on the whole that has about as much Liberal bias as George Bush). Go for double standards.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 3:18 AM

EVILBUNGLE

I always find it funny however that certain racism is allowed but others are not. who decides?

personally I hate it all but then my dislike of the human race is quite global, wherever you come from and whoever you praise, I don't like you, it's easier that way.

Kramer is clearly racist however, and Gibson clearly hates the Jewish people for the whole "Jesus" thing, that said he hates the British too, but then who doesn't!

Vote Day 1st December 2006 http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html
Together we will triumph.

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 7:53 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
SimonWho, what do you think this is...The Bronze Age. Last time I checked we don't condemn people for the sins of their father.

Actually this is the Information Age and we do condemn those who support those who deny the holocaust, as Mel has done.

Plus remember the anti-semitic overtones of Passion of the Christ? The row over that didn't come from nowhere. When Mel was pulled over, the feeling was already out there that he was bigoted against the Jews. We just didn't realise how much.

I never saw Passion, so I can't tell what, if any , anti Semetic overtones there were. One thing I do recall is the so called 'backlash' at the Jews which were predicted to occur after the movie came out. And what happened? Nothing. Temples weren't burned, Jews weren't beaten.... nothing happened.

As for Richards and his melt down, here's how I see it. Clearly, here's one comedian who can't deal w/ hecklers. Add to the mix that it was 2 black guys, and that spells trouble. Why ? Because there's a unspoken rule that says blacks can't be criticized. Not for the high % of fatherless families, not for Katrina, not for murdering an ex wife and a innocent waiter. It's not their fault. They didn't do it. To even suggest they're in the least bit culpable makes you a racist. That seems to be partly what was boiling up in Richard's mind, before he blew a fuse. ( Read Richard's 'apology' from the David Letterman show, if you wonder where I'm getting all this stuff )

I've been to comedy clubs, and anyone who has will tell you - don't take on the comic. Why ? Most seasoned comics will dress you down and ridicule you to no end. And when they're done with you and their act is over, the next comic to hit the stage will likely keep the hit parade going. Insult after insult, all mixed in with their act. Richards, for what ever reason, just couldn't deal. Maybe it was a bad day, maybe stress from struggling since Seinfeld, any of 1000 different reasons that have nothing to do w/ the 2 black guys heckling him that night. But he crossed the line, imo, and dug a huge hole for himself. "Sorry" won't cut it ,and he definatly can't pay those guys any $$ for their pain. Gloria ALred or not, they've got no case. Or shouldn't.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 7:55 AM

EVILDINOSAUR

I don't think he's a racist, he just lost his temper big time. He didn't even know what he was saying, it just happened that the guys that pissed him off were black and so he went on a black hating rampage.

I in no way condone his actions, but I can understand them, and I believe him when he says he's sorry.

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 10:02 AM

Michael Richards To Redeem Racist Tirade By Bashing Bush

http://politicaltherapy.blogspot.com/2006/11/michael-richards-to-redee
m-racist.html

By the way, for those can't figure it out. It's a joke.

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 2:01 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I still can't figure you why anybody cares. It's not like his opinion is meaningful.

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Sunday, November 26, 2006 2:15 PM