Drug war by dreamtrove

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Drug war

POSTED BY: DREAMTROVE
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 24, 2024 12:35
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Saturday, December 9, 2006 11:34 PM

Sergeantx FremdFirma RocketJock Citizen Chrismoorhead Sevenpercent - Your posts here have been very insightful and it's a joy to read that there are some people still have a bit of sanity and a sense of patriotism left in them. Thank god for the internet. There wouldn't be any truth told if we had only the boob tube to rely on. God forbid net neutrality and how that will end our last bastion of truth in this world.

And RocketJock ""Think of it as evolution in action" -- Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle".... they were frackin geniuses. My old man lent me some of their books during a summer break back in high school. My favorite is probably Footfall.

And now... Dreamtrove.... well well well. Where do we start here? If I didn't just read 5,000 different instances where you either claimed you weren't a drug user, exclaimed your distain for drugs (though not the ones Crime Dog McGruff says are okay), and basically labeled everyone you suspect of using drugs as being a sub-human species, not worthy of your time... well DT, I'd think you were a Meth-head myself.

Bottom line, (are you ready for this?) if we weren't forced to corral our own kids in public schools with people they don't get along with all day long, learning skills that still leave us uneducated in respects to the rest of the world, they wouldn't be doing drugs in the first place, and they wouldn't be around it anyhow. All the schooling and good grades got me was a button pushing job with computers. I'm still building other peoples dreams while I live my own little shitty life. Sure there's good times, but most of the time it's all pretty mediocre. Some people choose pot, others (like I'm sure you do) choose television. There's no reason that I couldn't have learned to do what I do at my job when I was in second grade and no amout of social studies or Chemestry or Calculus would have made me any better at what I do.

It's Centralized Government that is the problem. Its their constant meddling and beating us over the head with the thought that we are unable to take care of ourselves without them that's the problem. "It takes a village".... blah. Go to hell Clinton and take your big Government with you.

The one thing you're right about is that as a society, we're very sick and getting sicker by the day. Anybody else notice that our sociatal ill have grown exponentially, concurrently with the growth and expansion of our Government and their "Wars" on everything. My grandma would have done the same thing that that patriot old lady did if somebody unconstitutionally broke into her house without warrant or cause. I hope if it happens she puts them all in the morgue. She's under the belief that everything should be legalized and if the people had the means of protecting themselves, instead of putting their lives in the hands of the barbarians in blue, things would sort themselves out like they usually tend to. She's also a faithful church goer and Repuglican and I believe her when she says that she will pray for those who do drugs, seeing how two of her own children do.

The problem here is that the do-gooders and Oprah/Rosie worshipers (you probably included) bought into the political propoganda that we need all guns taken out of the hands of civilians. Couple that with the rediculous prices of drugs today because of the higher demand and danger level the "War" on drugs has produced and you've got a real problem getting the drugs in the hands of people that want them without a rise in violence and theft. If none of us are able to do anything to protect ourselves, in the mean time, then we have only the government to turn to for protection. What a fine job they're doing. Thanks for using my money so wisely.

I push for an end of the "War" on drugs, complete legalization of everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, including our God given right to bear arms, and putting the theory of Darwinism to use. If Darwinism is good enough to teach our kids in school, it's good enough to put into action in real life.

Oh... and what the hell is a happy life anyways? I don't know anyone who's really happy. You sure don't sound to happy as a self proclaimed non-drug user and Taoist.

"Happily ever after fails and we've been poisoned by these fairy tales." - Don Henley, End of the Innocence

My real question for you here is, would you rather have us all on Prozac and Zoloft because, for some reason, these drugs are okay? I'm thinking yes because of your stance on Tobacco and Alcahol.

And to say that users create users out of peer pressure is just plain bullshit. I'm pro marajuana, and I do smoke, but I won't turn anyone on to it. If you're 25 and you've never smoked, then that's obviously because you've decided that that is what you want, for whatever reason. If somebody already smokes and they're down, I'll smoke it with them, but I'm not out there getting non smokers high. You really think I give two shits who smokes and who doesn't? And by the way, do I sound to you like I am in any way stupid or of lesser intelligence than you because I do smoke? I think I state my piece rather well and I definately have much more of a knack for writing than a majority of my dim-witted, but often well intentioned co-workers.

Might I submit that your view on alcahol is completely warped too. This isn't to say that I don't partake, but I'm not going to fool myself out of believing that it's not one of the most dangerous drugs on the market. Not only dangerous to our own bodies, but alcahol related deaths,namely accidents, are the number one cause of teen related deaths, not to mention all of the others of any age they take out with them in the process.

I do, however agree with your basic assessment of why the "War" on drugs fails. It is because it is designed to fail. Do you realize how many law enforcement officials' pay, out of our tax dollars, are justified because of the never ending "War" on drugs? Think how many more will be justified in the years to come because of the newfound "War" on terror. Did you notice that as soon as the "War" on terror was founded, nobody in the media or politics even refers to it as the "War" on drugs anymore? That is because they would simply sound foolish when our kids are dying overseas in a real, albiet government manufactured "War".

And to say that no one is taking the issue seriously because they're not taking your side.... heh. Does that sound right to you? I don't agree with almost anything you have to say, but at no time did I ever fathom that you aren't serious, even to the point of taking a fanatical stance here. We all know you're VERY serious. Your problem is that you, like most Americans, are hung up on one particular issue, and with your blinders on, you fail to see everything outside of the box and see how there are many layers to the ills of society and blaming one thing, drugs being only one example of this, is foolish and exactly what THEY want us to do. I share your frustration. Life here is shit. I think it's always that way though. We tend to look back on our childhoods like it was so much better then. I don't know the answers either, though I constantly find myself obsessing over the questions.

I must say my favorite quote from you I actually have to post here for laughs: "I think we have a bunch of users on the board. The nation is undoubtedly doomed. Isn't there a christian here who isn't also a meth-head, or someone who can weigh in on the idea that Brave New World is not in fact a desirable state of affairs, or that Reavers are really in part a reference to these sort of fringe junkies?"

I agree with you that a Brave New World isn't a desireable state of affairs. I suppose the Orwellian alternatives you propose will be better for mankind in the long run?

Oh yeah... here's another great quote "You know perfectly well that a taoist is not a christian, and doesn't force their beliefs on others. We do, however, have the right to defend ourselves."

You just answered your own question. STFU, get off your soap box, buy a gun, keep it loaded, and sleep with one eye open.

Hero - Holy Shit Hero... you are a monster. If you poisoned their supply, after the first wave or two of deaths, people would just resort to making their own stuff anyhow, or finding dealers from trusted local sources. The drug trade would be more wide spread and you would have small pockets of organized crime again, rather than a steady supply of drugs carted up here from south of the border. The market would demand it. This would never happen because Big Centralized Government would lose a foothold that they've worked so hard to create over the last several generations. Organized crime is okay, as long as they have complete control of it.

And you Dreamtrove for approving that... I thought you to be a semi-reasonable person but after reading that I must say you truly disgust me as a human being. Both of you Nazis need to smoke a fucking joint and chill the fuck out.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 10:25 AM

DREAMTROVE

7%

I know the chemsitry of this pretty much backwards and forwards, and you're spouting gibberish, imho.
POTUS and congress are examples of sound minds? Ph-lease.

People seem to be pretty stupid on this issue.

Convince you?

Just open your eyes, and tell me you don't see that people on drugs are less-sane then people not on drugs, and that cumulatively, people who use drugs don't get less sane, less sharp, and less productive.

Convince you?

That's like saying convince you the iraq war was wrong, or the holocaust for that matter. Which, btw, was a seriously amphetamine-induced event.

If you don't see it by now, it's probably hopeless.

I'm stunned by this reception.

The fact is, I KNOW that I'm not wrong, I got a ton of the real world experience backing me up. People take drugs, they drop out of college, lose all their ambitions, gets crazy, get guns, hole up in their personal hell and shoot up. I've seen it a bizillion times, and so have all of you.

Now for that a**hole who just posted.

Us Nazis. Funny. Nazis were, and still are, pro-drug. Check out any drug scene today, find the white power, and you've found the white powder, and vis versa.

My position? I'm just trying to save society from it's own certain self-destruction.

Bunch of Reavers if you ask me.

Obviously the cumulative brain damage, slow death and inability to feel, achieve, or even function coupled with the rampant disease, violence and totally dysfunctional paranoia that comes with this whole drug scene, clearly you people need something else to convince you that there's a problem here.

Remember back on the school thread where I said something to the effect of:

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Yeah, but we don't get to decide what's "good enough. That's up to the koreans, the japanese, and anyone who competes with us"

Well, here to, we don't get to decide what's good enough. Say you're a CEO of a company, and your workers are on crack. You don't think that's going to effect job performance? What about school performance? How would you like your doctor to be on crystal meth? It's no vicious rumor that the atrocities of the Iraq war were drug induced - on both sides.

I actually think the only sane one here besides me may be Rue, and a couple of folks who didn't comment.

Thanks for opening my eyes to exactly how serious this problem is. One big Reaver nation. God, you all deserve George W. Bush. And Bill Clinton, too, though I suppose if you smoked weed every day, you probably don't really remember the Clinton years. Fortunately, you can still go read up about them online.

So, I'm a dick, so sue me, I never pretended not to be a dick. But I'm the dick giving you the wake up call. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, and as a people, Americans are taking a step down on the evolutionary ladder.

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And you Dreamtrove for approving that... I thought you to be a semi-reasonable person but after reading that I must say you truly disgust me as a human being.

Spoken like a true addict.

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buy a gun, keep it loaded, and sleep with one eye open.

Um, no, that's what you druggies do.

This is the infection that's destroying our society. All that's necessary for evil to flourish is that good men do nothing. Right? If good men do drugs, then good men do nothing.

So, Vampires, Reavers, I think Joss gets it. Thanks for the heads up guys, better not to try to reason with the beast, just lock and load. (Not literally)

I'm a little surprised that none of the christians have posted here. No one seems to think that there is such a thing as a "drug problem" except me and Hero and possibly Rue. I guess I'm the looney fringe. There are a few times in your life when everone disagrees with you, and you gotta know you're right and stick to your guns. I know I'm right. I've got a ton of life experience to back it up, everything leads me to the conclusion that there *is* a drug problem. I came here to discuss what to do about this problem, which is the thing I don't know. Well, all the "ignore it" advice goes back to the first step "there is no problem" argument, which, yes, is exactly like Bush's "there is no global warming" argument.

Which reminds me. If someone in the drug community commits a crime, then to them, that's nothing, it's what they do. If someone rats on that crime, that's a big bad, that whining little bitch druggie is the rat, and there's a leak problem. Reminds me a lot of Bush. Maybe because Bush et al are druggies. This is a big big problems people, and it goes all the way to the top. And it was a big big problem in Nazi Germany, the first major Drugocracy. Ever noticed that the magic Pot Smoking number is 420, and ever asked why? Well, I asked some of my local druggies and they said "oh, Hilter's birthday, of course" Yeah, should've known. Brave new world guys. Enjoy.

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 11:47 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I'm a little surprised that none of the christians have posted here. No one seems to think that there is such a thing as a "drug problem" except me and Hero and possibly Rue. I guess I'm the looney fringe. There are a few times in your life when everone disagrees with you, and you gotta know you're right and stick to your guns. I know I'm right. I've got a ton of life experience to back it up, everything leads me to the conclusion that there *is* a drug problem. I came here to discuss what to do about this problem, which is the thing I don't know. Well, all the "ignore it" advice goes back to the first step "there is no problem" argument, which, yes, is exactly like Bush's "there is no global warming" argument.

I don't think anyone here is saying, "There's not a problem" or "Let's ignore it." It's just that none of us see it as the overwhelming issue you present it as.

And, no, legalization isn't perfect, but it's a pretty good first step. It reduces crime, and lets the country focus on the drug problem as a health issue, not a legal issue (I think somebody's said that already, so kudos to you for being first, and kudos to me for quoting you). Well-adjusted people are going to understand their own tendencies toward addiction, and are going to know which drugs to avoid or take in moderation. The addicts, ones less well adjusted, probably need to have someone help them confront the underlying issues that cause them to resort to extreme escapism.

Ideally, society could shift its focus from seeing people as numbers, or workhorses (etc.), but... barring that, legalization (along with education) is the best method of dealing with the "drug war."

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 11:51 AM

SEVENPERCENT

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I know the chemsitry of this pretty much backwards and forwards, and you're spouting gibberish, imho.
POTUS and congress are examples of sound minds? Ph-lease.

I never said they were examples of sound minds. You said that drug users couldn't be a success. I beg to differ. GWB may be (and is) a total idiot, but I somehow doubt anyone could call a POTUS a failure at life. Same with congress. Idiots all, but successes? Certainly.

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People seem to be pretty stupid on this issue.

Yeah. You do. Stop with the implied personal attacks, or I'll make Rue's treatment of Auraptor pale by comparison with my responses. Let's not go down that road.

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Convince you?

That's what I said. You haven't even really made an argument yet. All you have said is "drugs are bad because drugs are bad," and "believe me, drugs are bad." That's not an argument, that's an opinion. Back up your claims with facts. Your "it's destroying society" argument is laughable in the face of what I did just this morning. Went to church, had some pictures taken, did some Xmas shopping. Watching football now. Where was the crazed drug riot in the streets?

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Just open your eyes, and tell me you don't see that people on drugs are less-sane then people not on drugs, and that cumulatively, people who use drugs don't get less sane, less sharp, and less productive.

I know lots of recreational users. Many who have high-powered jobs. I know a lawyer that loves his MJ on the weekends. He makes 5x what I make, and is probably 5x as smart. How does that example fit into your puzzle?

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That's like saying convince you the iraq war was wrong, or the holocaust for that matter. Which, btw, was a seriously amphetamine-induced event.

No, the facts convince me of those. You haven't given me any facts yet for "drugs are bad (mmmmkay? - sorry, couldn't resist the reference)." Cite me some evidence, give me a personal anecdote, something. You've given nothing of the kind. I'm beginning to think 'same old DT, can't back up a fact,' which is sad given your vehemence on this issue.

Also, as someone with a degree in history and who is well-read on the Holocaust, I'd love for you to start another thread explaining how it was caused by amphetamine addiction. That should be interesting.

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I'm stunned by this reception.

The fact is, I KNOW that I'm not wrong, I got a ton of the real world experience backing me up.

Funny. GWB and the die-hard neocons said the same thing about Iraq. When 9/10 people disagree with you, and you can't back up your statements with examinable proof, it's time to start thinking you may be wrong.

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People take drugs, they drop out of college, lose all their ambitions, gets crazy, get guns, hole up in their personal hell and shoot up. I've seen it a bizillion times, and so have all of you.

No. I haven't. Where are these people you know that do this? Most of my friends in college smoked dope, drank themselves into a stupor, tried acid or ecstasy, or God only knows what all else. Almost all of them have jobs and families, and are wonderful people.

I again will state for the record that I bet you know someone personally, a brother or a close friend, who self-destructed on drugs and that's how you reached this conclusion. You had a bad experience and are scarred by it. If that's the case it's understandable - it's the MADD syndrome (that organization is famous for trying to ban alcohol and pass zero tolerance driving laws - but who can blame them, many of them lost kids to drunk driving). But just because you've seen one (or two, or even 50) bad cases, that does not make it true for the majority.

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I actually think the only sane one here besides me may be Rue, and a couple of folks who didn't comment.

I still want you to tell me how I'm not sane. Parse it out for me real simple-like. I don't use drugs. I don't drink enough in a year to fill a 12 pack of beer. I don't see the "impending chaos of broken bodies and shattered minds littering the streets of Laredo," or whatever it is you think is happening to society. Christ on a cracker, I've done nothing but be out among people all weekend long, and nothing more was different this year than it has been in years past (besides manners - which I think is a byproduct of technology, not drugs - yes, I'm looking at you, bluetooth using bastard who cut me off in line today). Yet I disagree with you. So show me, how am I "insane?"

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I'm a little surprised that none of the christians have posted here.

**Raises hand***

I'm a Christian. I'm posting here.

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I guess I'm the looney fringe. There are a few times in your life when everone disagrees with you, and you gotta know you're right and stick to your guns.

So I guess you're The Decider in this thread? Hero can be your Rummy; I believe it was him who wanted to poison strangers.

Quote:
Ever noticed that the magic Pot Smoking number is 420, and ever asked why? Well, I asked some of my local druggies and they said "oh, Hilter's birthday, of course" Yeah, should've known. Brave new world guys. Enjoy.

That's not why it's 4:20 - It's got nothing to do whatsoever with Hitler. 4:20 started in the 70's. See? Look how easy it is to cite a reference:

You told me yourself once how great wiki is - here's looking at you, kid:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/420_%28cannabis_culture%29

http://www.snopes.com/language/stories/420.htm

------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 11:55 AM

CITIZEN

I'm sorry DT, but you've got your head too far up your own righteous arse, IMHO. You want to live in a world where people who have looked at a drug are treated as second class citizens and shot on sight, move to a totalitarian nation.

The more you go on the more you push me to the conclusion that you are pro choice as long as it's your choice. Your country would work great as a dictatorship, long as you're the dictator, and I'm done, but that's probably because I'm a stupid addict that raped his own grandma right.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 3:45 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Animals use drugs.

One of the most enlightening studies I read was about elephants.. (It was featured in Science News and titled "Drinking to Forget?"*). The researchers gave the elephants plenty of food but simply piled it in one spot. They also gave the elephants a choice of drink - one was plain water, the other 5% alcohol. The elephants lower on the totem pole - the ones that simply had to wait for food - preferred alcohol and did, at times, drink to staggering.

Now think of human society. We create a 'work or die' society. Then we create a 5% unemployment rate and call it good. (Roughly 12% of US males are permanently unemployed according to the BLS and aren't counted in the official unemployment rate.) Then after creating this hierarchy of survival we wonder why people use drugs.

Doesn't that seem just a little obtuse?

(*There is no link for the study - it's too old. It also reminds me of Jane Goodall's chimp observations - where accidentally piling food in one spot triggered unusual maladaptive behavior. But that's how we've structured our economy.)

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 4:16 PM

DREAMTROVE

Yinyang,

Your argument makes more sense to me than most of the others. I disagree that legalization would be a good first step. Corporations must be waiting in the wings ready to produce recreational drugs in bulk and advertise them in TV, magazines, internet, as soon as uncle sam gives the word. I think that the first step would have to be to insure that that did not happen.

One of the real serious drug disaster stories i know is a neighbor's son who started smoking cigarettes at 11, almost entirely because of the Joe Camel Cash ad campaign. How many kids would be smoking Camel Crack in order to get free concert tickets?

I think the problem is critical, and I was sounding the red alert intentionally. I think, basically, almost an entire generation is lost. The brightest kid in town got totally derailed by drugs, I can think of one who might recover/drop drugs, and one who dropped the drug habit and is doing very well, has his own company now. But the overwhelming majority of gen y-ers here have been seriously led off track, to an iraq-style quagmire of their own lives.

Sure, it's not news, and it didn't happen suddenly, I just thought it was time to start reversing this trend before the united states becomes just another coca republic.

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but I somehow doubt anyone could call a POTUS a failure at life

Sorry. My bad. I was thinking that POTUS was a total miserable failure. I still do. I didn't mean to say that a drug addict couldn't attain a position, I meant they can't (sure, there may be exceptions,) but in general, they can't perform a function, well, or as well as, a non-addict.

Quote:
All you have said is "drugs are bad because drugs are bad," and "believe me, drugs are bad."

To be fair I think I said a great deal more. In short, drugs are bad because people who take drugs steadily lose various mental abilities, which sure, depends on the drug, but the main ones tend to be memory, judgment/perspective and stability.

But the other side of that is I have no interest in the argument "drugs are bad" because I think that's back pedalling, I think it's a rhetorical trick aimed at getting the discussion away from solving the problem by questioning the existance of the problem, ie. it's exactly what the Bush admin has done on global warming, and I think you're doing it for the same reason.

I suspect most people get the destructive effects of drugs because they have seen it happen more than one.

Am I too close to the problem? Possibly. As I said a few times before, my sister is a rehab counselor. But mostly she's just told me what to look for, and because of that, I've recognized that it is as bad as it is.

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I know lots of recreational users. Many who have high-powered jobs. I know a lawyer that loves his MJ on the weekends. He makes 5x what I make, and is probably 5x as smart. How does that example fit into your puzzle?

Give it time, he'll get dumber.

Amphetamines were part of the regimine in nazi germany. They lead to bizarre violent behavior. I think this makes perfect sense, in the absense of any other explanation.

The tendency to think death is cool, and torture, mutilation, etc., in my humble experience, has always gone hand in hand with hard drug use. Not mj, not alcohol, but heroin, coke or meth. Just, sure, people I've known.

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it's time to start thinking you may be wrong.

not a chance. I'll start thinking I'm wrong when the balance of evidence turns against me.

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I again will state for the record that I bet you know someone personally, a brother or a close friend, who self-destructed on drugs and that's how you reached this conclusion.

I've known endless numbers.

S. an G. both dropped out of college and G. started getting high full time, spending all his money, D. became a permanent scitzophrenic after binging on heroin and coke, M. commited suicide because he thought he could fly while high, J. is holed up in a cabin with an AK 47 staying up all night in a chair, gun in lap, waiting for them to come and get him. My sister has over 10,000 such stories. You're fantasy stories of happy successful druggies are just not something I've seen once. Not once. If I saw such a person I'd say either "this person isn't really an addict, and we're talking about a couple of occassional uses" or "this person has there position because of connections, someone else is making sure they succeed." Sure, is it possible? yeah, sure, it's possible, someone out there may be able to handle it on their own. Is it a trend? don't be rediculous. The story here is black and white.

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But just because you've seen one (or two, or even 50) bad cases, that does not make it true for the majority.

I'd wager major health agencies don't think that drugs are having a positive long term impact on mental abilities.

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**Raises hand***

I'm a Christian. I'm posting here.

Nice try. Sorry, I meant a religious christian, not a nominal one. Like someone who has posted from the christian perspective before.

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So I guess you're The Decider in this thread? Hero can be your Rummy; I believe it was him who wanted to poison strangers.

Don't go calling me the Bush here, I'm not the one who has the george w bush argument. Of course, Bush is a druggie.

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The exact origin of the term is unknown. Cannabis users gather on April 20...

Citizen,

You're just an ass. There's really nothing else I can say. You oppose everything I post whether you believe it or not. Whatever.

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 4:18 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

I don't know about you DreamTrove, but I for one welcome our Meth-addled, AK-47 toting, Brave New World overlords.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 4:23 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

DT,

I propose drugs be made legal and supplied by government (in constant amounts) to registered users in plain wrap out of dreary pharmacies.

No profit, no glamour, no lure of the unknown.

PS But to really mend the drug problem you'd have to change the economy. For every 1% rise in unemployment you get a 2% rise in alcoholism.

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 6:07 PM

BABYWITHTHEPOWER

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
If you weren't using yourself, you'd see this clearly. The rest of us are completely unable to do our own thing because your own thing is fucking it up. You're free to do your own thing somewhere else, but not in our homes with our kids bringing your dealers and addicts and their AK47s and everything. No way, no gorram way. Not on my boat.

I tried to get throught this thread all the way before replying, I truely did, but this post made me throw up in my mouth a little.

DT, wtf is wrong with you? I'm am not a user, to any degree. I have never introduced an controlled substance into my body that wasn't perscribed. I drink, and regardless of what you believe, alcohol is a drug and a very detrimental one to this country. I've never seen a pothead fight, but you bet your ass I've been witness to more than a few barroom brawls.

I won't disagree with you, we have a staggering drug problem in this country, but it's not the recreational drugs that are destroying us. It's crap like prozak and ritalin that are forced down our collective throats for diseases I'm not even convinced exist. What makes those drugs exempt from your crusade? Big Pharm endorsing them?

Why don't you climb down off your cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it? It's not your place to judge, and it's not your place to decide who needs to be 'redeemed'. I think we should create a thread to help us decide what to do with self-important, ill-informed, un-relenting bastards like you. Personally I think it's people like you and the PC crowd that make me and mine 'completely unable to do our thing' because of the crap you pull. But you don't see me saying we should poison you or relocate you. This is America and you have every right to be a pompous asshat as everyone else on this board has a right to be.

I think at this point, the best thing you can do is accept the fact that the majority of people posting on this thread think you are full of s

t and move on to your next cross burning. Thanks for coming out.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'll be in my bunk.
XO of the 76th Battalion http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html
http://www.myspace.com/babywiththepower

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 6:27 PM

SEVENPERCENT

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

Sorry. My bad. I was thinking that POTUS was a total miserable failure. I still do. I didn't mean to say that a drug addict couldn't attain a position, I meant they can't (sure, there may be exceptions,) but in general, they can't perform a function, well, or as well as, a non-addict.

Well, well, look at the backpedalling. You have said repeatedly that a drug addict, or even someone who uses recreationally, was doomed to life as a miserable wretch. Now you're saying there may be exceptions, and are trying to split hairs. Nice one. Busted.

Quote:
To be fair I think I said a great deal more.

Nope. I have yet to see a link posted or a fact cited. SO you really haven't.

Quote:
But the other side of that is I have no interest in the argument "drugs are bad" because I think that's back pedalling,

But you must have an interest in it, you're the one making it.

Quote:
I think it's a rhetorical trick aimed at getting the discussion away from solving the problem by questioning the existance of the problem, ie. it's exactly what the Bush admin has done on global warming, and I think you're doing it for the same reason.

I dispute that there is a problem. I dispute that the effects on society are nowhere near what you claim. I dispute that the effects on users in general, especially from "soft" drugs, are nowhere near what you claim. I support legalization of "soft" (just so we're clear, MJ, maybe Ecstacy, etc., but not heroin, coke, etc.) drugs.

You claimed getting rid of drugs would solve the problem. I say drugs are only a problem because of economic and social problems to begin with, and drug abuse is only a symptom of what's wrong, and cracking down on users won't fix anything. How you think I'm "globally warming" the argument is just bullshit from you, and everyone reading the thread can see it.

Quote:
I suspect most people get the destructive effects of drugs because they have seen it happen more than one.

I know several alcoholics. On the other hand, I know several hundred drinkers. Does that mean alcohol is destructive? Or that those people shouldn't drink, and they should seek help for a problem? I go with the latter. Why penalize several hundred for the brain chemistry of a few? That's what you're advocating, and Hero thinks you should poison the beer while you're at it. It's not rational.

Quote:
Am I too close to the problem? Possibly. As I said a few times before, my sister is a rehab counselor. But mostly she's just told me what to look for, and because of that, I've recognized that it is as bad as it is.

So your sister tells you horror stories, and (as a non-professional) now you're looking for case studies? Again, you're getting the fucked-up stories of a few people from a counselor and making sweeping generalizations about society. That's not good logic.

Quote:
Give it time, he'll get dumber.

How much time should I give it? 10 years? 20? He's been smoking as long as I've known him, how long does it take, oh wise god of the addict? Let's say he quits cold turkey tomorrow - according to you in this thread, he should never have been able to achieve what he has. You said all drug users were gun-toting trash - but yet you can't explain why the vast majority of Amerians that are recreational users are happy, stable people with jobs and friends. According to you, any time I step out the door I should be afraid for my life because of all the MJ users out there with uzis. It makes no sense.

Quote:
Amphetamines were part of the regimine in nazi germany.

Prove it. I have no idea where you got this fact. Any amphetamine use may have been in isolated cases; you're claiming that all the Third Reich were addicts. I'd like to see some evidence (bet I don't get any).

Quote:
The tendency to think death is cool, and torture, mutilation, etc., in my humble experience, has always gone hand in hand with hard drug use. Not mj, not alcohol, but heroin, coke or meth. Just, sure, people I've known.

So are you changing your argument now? Is it only hard drugs that cause the problems? You said MJ and alcohol were equally destructive with all the other drugs earlier in this thread. Is it now just coke or meth?
Give me evidence to this question then: "What specific drugs do you think are dangerous to society, and what exactly do you think the damage they are causing to society is?" I want to see you cite the actual drugs you think are the problem, and evidence that every one ofthose drug users are gun-toting maniacs. Good luck with that.

Quote:
I'll start thinking I'm wrong when the balance of evidence turns against me.

Well, unless you start showing some evidence on your side, I'd say it is against you.

Quote:
My sister has over 10,000 such stories.

Your sister is a counselor. A certified professional. Of course she does. I've got a thousand stories of bad students - does that mean I've never passed anyone?

[quoteYou're fantasy stories of happy successful druggies are just not something I've seen once. Not once. If I saw such a person I'd say either "this person isn't really an addict, and we're talking about a couple of occassional uses" or "this person has there position because of connections, someone else is making sure they succeed."

Again, now you're backpedalling. Now you want to redefine your definition of a drug user. You said initially that occasional or recreational users could never be a success and were doomed to a life of disaster. Now you say that if they aren't failing, they must not be real druggies.
What, exactly, is your definition of a 'real druggie?'

Quote:
The story here is black and white.

If that was the case, you'd be winning this argument. You aren't. It's hard to tell what's worse, your lack of evidence or your equivocation on terms .

Quote:
Nice try. Sorry, I meant a religious christian, not a nominal one. Like someone who has posted from the christian perspective before.

Okay, now you're pulling out that antimason fallacy, the famous "One True Scotsman." I go to chuch regularly, have read the Bible repeatedly, and try to follow the Christian message. But since I'm not batshit nuts, I'm not a real Christian, just a 'nominal' one.
Pffft. Whatever.

Quote:
The exact origin of the term is unknown. Cannabis users gather on April 20...

Way to take a quote out of context. Both Snopes and Wiki agree that the term originated in the 70's with a pot smoking group that met at 4:20. While they can't be absolutely sure, neither source remotely mentions that it comes from the Nazis. Give that one a rest - according to you, pot smokers should be too stupid to know who Hitler even was, right?

------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Sunday, December 10, 2006 6:46 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Nicely put Seven.

DT.... Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

And gorram it DT, you better have some evidence to back up your fantasy this time or me and my irredeemable meth-addict boyz are comin' to your town with AK-47s and lead pipes and we're going to make short work of you. Then we're going to sell your clean, drug-free organs on eBay to support our insane habit.

Yabba Dabba Doo! All your base R belong to us! Slavery is Freedom!

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, December 11, 2006 7:48 AM

CITIZEN

DBL

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Monday, December 11, 2006 8:22 AM

CITIZEN

This is what happens when the site crashes.

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Monday, December 11, 2006 8:22 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Citizen,

You're just an ass. There's really nothing else I can say. You oppose everything I post whether you believe it or not. Whatever.

How much of a self righteous self absorbed arrogant little shit do you need to be exactly? You've got no answer to anything either myself or SgtX has posted so you call him a drug addict and me an 'ass'. You are truely pathetic.

I disagree with a great amount you say because I bother to do research and think for myself, where as you're an idiot potato farmer from the arse end of nowhere who thinks Joseph McCarthy was a great man.

It's really quite simple.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 4:59 PM

DREAMTROVE

Quote:
6IXSTRINGJACK:

I don't know about you DreamTrove, but I for one welcome our Meth-addled, AK-47 toting, Brave New World overlords.

So I take it you voted for Bush.

Quote:
RUE:

I propose drugs be made legal and supplied by government (in constant amounts) to registered users in plain wrap out of dreary pharmacies.

No profit, no glamour, no lure of the unknown.

PS But to really mend the drug problem you'd have to change the economy. For every 1% rise in unemployment you get a 2% rise in alcoholism.

I like this idea. I think it would need to come with an education program. It's true that kids will sniff glue if the cool kids tell them to.

Quote:
BABYWITHTHEPOWER:
It's crap like prozak and ritalin that are forced down our collective throats for diseases I'm not even convinced exist. What makes those drugs exempt from your crusade? Big Pharm endorsing them?

Who said they were exempt. Clearly you haven't read my comments on the other threads, even recent/current ones.

Quote:
Why don't you climb down off your cross

What an assinine remark. You clearly didn't even read my posts on this thread. Not a moral mission knucklehead, a scientific education. Potheads don't fight, of course not, they wouldn't remember what they were fighting about. Plus, they'd lose. Methheads might saw their heads off with kitchen knives and then carry their heads around in blood soaked pillow cases (real story)

Quote:

Well, well, look at the backpedalling. You have said repeatedly that a drug addict, or even someone who uses recreationally, was doomed to life as a miserable wretch. Now you're saying there may be exceptions, and are trying to split hairs. Nice one. Busted.

Whatever.
I think I said uninterrupted drug use. I'm not backing down, it's called trying to reach some sort of agreement. I'm not the only person on the Earth, so I know there may be world views which conflict with my own, in such things as what makes a successful life. The trend of drugs to destruction is unaffected.

...[rant]

I gave up reading your post.

Citizen,

But Joseph McCarthy *was* a great man. And you *are* an ass. The crackhead nation of the braindead which you so avidly support awaits you.

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 5:08 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
So I take it you voted for Bush.

I had to try to stop laughing before I replied. I would think it very obvious that I would never vote Repuglican or Demoncrat from any one of the numerous posts I've put on this board, let alone this thread. They're just 2 sides of the same corrupt coin.

It should have read: "I don't know about you DreamTrove, but I for one welcome our Single-Party Repuglicrat Orwellian Overlords". My apologies on the confusion.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:07 PM

SERGEANTX

http://www.timecube.com

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Tuesday, December 12, 2006 6:52 PM

SEVENPERCENT

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

I think I said uninterrupted drug use.

No, you didn't. And you haven't answered a single question I posted, which means - again - for all your bluster and supposed smarts you can't back up an argument with reason or facts. Typical from you.

Quote:
I gave up reading your post.

I gave up thinking you were rational.

------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 12:44 AM

BABYWITHTHEPOWER

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Who said they were exempt. Clearly you haven't read my comments on the other threads, even recent/current ones.

No I haven't because they are, as you said, on other threads. Everything I have said is in reference to what you have said here, and the issue I've taken with it.

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Quote:
Why don't you climb down off your cross

What an assinine remark. You clearly didn't even read my posts on this thread. Not a moral mission knucklehead, a scientific education. Potheads don't fight, of course not, they wouldn't remember what they were fighting about. Plus, they'd lose. Methheads might saw their heads off with kitchen knives and then carry their heads around in blood soaked pillow cases (real story)

Scientific education, huh? Who, exactly is, or is being, educated? And what science? Where are these facts? I seem to remember you saying, and I quote:

Quote:
...and that's not an opinion, it's a statistical fact.

Then when called on this by Sgt X you replied with:

Quote:
I'm not making this stuff up, or getting it from anti-drug zealots, whoever they are. I just look at the situation on the ground, and calling it as I see it.

So which is it? Are you getting this information from science, from statistical evidence? (both of which you have yet to provide) Or are you, in fact, simply calling it the way you see it? And if you are, who the hell elected you king shit? And if you were taking the scientific approach to solving this problem, as opposed to this being a 'moral mission' as you put it, than you wouldn't be advocating poisoning the drug supply. That's not science, that's genocide. While you're at it why not just poison the mentally retarded? Alot of them don't do a whole hell of alot to further society, and those that can't take care of themselves are actually a drain on us because our insurance companies have to pay for them to be put in a home? They seem to fit into the categories that make the drug users such a bane, so why not kill them too*? And there was a figure in history that took it upon himself to poison the 'undesireables' in society. His name was Hitler.

And though it's up in that quoted text, I have to post it again and I want everyone to REALLY read it.

Quote:
Methheads might saw their heads off with kitchen knives and then carry their heads around in blood soaked pillow cases (real story)

Okay, now read it again. See it? There you got it. How exactly does one cut off their own head and then proceed to carry it around in a blood soaked pillowcase? Is crystal meth the key ingredient in creating zombies? Now I know that's probably not what you meant to say, and it's because you suck at talking. And that's okay, we've come to terms with it, it's time you do as well.

And, for the record, putting 'real story' in parenthesis does not a true story make. I'll give you an example. *ahem* I have a 18 inch penis and used it to single handedly save the world from an invasion by mutated space lesbians from Mars (real story). I think that will sufice. How about posting a link there knucklehead, because something like that would have been in the news.

*Disclaimer: I do not, under any circumstance, endorse the mass killing of anyone, let alone the metally handicapped. Nor do I think they are a bane on society. I was simply using that example to drive home the point. I hope I haven't offended anyone.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I'll be in my bunk.
XO of the 76th Battalion http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html
http://www.myspace.com/babywiththepower

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Wednesday, December 13, 2006 5:16 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Citizen,

But Joseph McCarthy *was* a great man. And you *are* an ass. The crackhead nation of the braindead which you so avidly support awaits you.

Well of course you'd think that, he was as big a fascist as you. And you *ARE* a fascist, you're all freedom of choice on every issue, up until the point that choice is not one you want them to make. General Pinochet and all those other dictators you read about in your subscription to Dictator monthly would be very proud.

Oh no, I haven't bought a ticket to your gas chamber have I?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, December 19, 2006 5:29 PM

MARINA

Quote:
I support legalization of "soft" (just so we're clear, MJ, maybe Ecstacy, etc., but not heroin, coke, etc.) drugs.

How do you distinguish between cocaine and ecstasy as "hard" and "soft? Especially since the latter has much faster, more permanent effects on brain chemistry?

Don't make faces.

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Wednesday, July 24, 2024 12:35 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

Galloway man sentenced for selling heroin, fentanyl, meth

https://pressofatlanticcity.com/news/local/crime-courts/galloway-lynch
-heroin-fentanyl/article_58542b16-3eec-11ef-ac11-83eac5e4faca.html

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