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"If we do the work that we can do in this country, the work that we will do when John Kerry is president, people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk, get up out of that wheelchair and walk again." - John Edwards

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If we do the work that we can do in this country, the work that we will do

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Originally posted by piratejenny:
I'm so excited about this, I woke up yesterday morning to the good news, I've been hoping that John Edwards would run I think he's the Democrates best chance of getting the Presidency.

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we'll stop being scared of Jebus and throw some cash at researchers and help them make discoveries

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"people like Christopher Reeve are going to walk" = I'm optimistic if that happens we can find cures for these folks who deserve it (my God, he was Superman, for Christ sakes!)

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How can that be a sleazy message? Looks hopeful, to me. You're guilty of the same thing you accuse everyone else of - bashing based on perty lines. I bet I could find a dozen threads where you accuse others of bashing Bush when he says something positive and people call it sleazy. Here you do the same thing. This is a man saying that if we're elected, we're going to try and work toward cures - not too different than the stem-cell debate that changed the fate of Missouri's election this year.

But hey, God forbid someone tries to do something positive. Apparently, republicans believe the people with the diseases should just cure themselves

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
It is supremely shameless to suggest that ESC's will help anyone any time soon.

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Chris Reeves is dead. John Edwards was saying that to a man who died soon after those remarks were made. How heartless is that ?

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It's a con game, and one where Edwards is toying w/ the hopes and dreams of those he claims he's trying to help. Sorry you can't see it for what it really is.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
As an atheist, I'm not concerned w/ throwing $$ at Jebus, but using science and the power of the Fed Gov't in an honest, pragmatic and sensible way to benefit humanity.

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Embryonic Stem Cells are next to worthless. Why folks don't get that through their thick skulls infurriates me. Those who buy into the possibilities are nothing but lemmings being lead by a piper. Adult Stem Cells offer far more HONEST and legit cures in OUR life time. It is supremely shameless to suggest that ESC's will help anyone any time soon.

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Chris Reeves is dead. John Edwards was saying that to a man who died soon after those remarks were made.

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And so what if he PLAYED Superman? He's more deserving than one of my family members ? Or the neighbor down your street ? It seems all the world that you're kidding, but the way you're selling it , it just doesn't seem like you were.

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It's the snake oil salesmen, the bogus 'faith healer' approach by Edwards that pisses me off most. Even you can see it, but you're too much of a myrmidon to admit that I'm right here.

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Were ANY politician to say the same, I'd call him/ her out on it as well.

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You gotta love the logic. No research is being done in ESC because there's no money for research so no breakthroughs have been made. No Breakthroughs have been made which proves we are right not to fund ESC. Wow. Just wow.

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You're pissed off because Christopher Reeves died AFTER the comments? I can see that. This Edwards fella was obviously a heartless bastard for not checking what was about to happen in the future with his Crystal Ball

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Welcome to politics. Every politician does this, I believe the partisan trick is too only recognise it when it's coming from the other side. I've seen far far far worse than this coming from Bush.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Just wow indeed. You seem to think that because the Gov't isn't putting forth any NEW $$ for research in ESCs, there isn't ANY $$?? What a load of crap. There's absolutely nothing keeping the private sector from sinking it's research $$ into ESC, unless, that is...there's little/ no chance of any return.

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You also falsly presume that $$ = breakthroughs. Sure, just throw enough $$ at something, and eventually it will yield results. Sorry, that ain't how real life works.

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Edwards knew damn well that nothing would come of ESC research. That's why it's called PANDERING. He was playing up to the emotions of those who adore a well known celeb, which is why he said Reeves would stand up and walk out of THAT chair. More traveling snake oil showmanship on Edward's part.

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You've never seen anything nearly this bad, or you'd have offered it up as evidence. Fact is, I've never seen anything so blatently low and heartless as what Edwards has done, certainly not at the national level.

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But to purposely dupe those w/ spinal cord injuries, MS, and other maladies a cure will be found, as Edwards has done, just as soon as he gets elected.... it's unconscionable.

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Bush never did stoop to anything so low, nor have I seen any other candidate do that. So far, Edwards takes the cake.

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No, I live in the real world where I realise that if money is not made available for research research isn't done, and if research isn't done breakthroughs can't occur. It is you who seems to be under the moronic assumption that something must have a breakthrough before we research it.

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Dear I could bring up page upon page of them, but all that would happen is you blathering about how Bush is great and anyone who disagrees is evil and a terrorist. Have WMDs been found in Iraq? But but but but but but but... same shit different day.

Apparently giving hope to those suffering spinal injuries is "unconscionable" but sending thousands to death in a war whose reasons are proven false is a good thing.

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Originally posted by rue:
"If the private sector, you know, those evil pharmaceutical / biogenetic companies thought there could possibly be any future returns from this field, they'd sink the $$ into themselves."

Have you never heard of "orphan diseases"? They are real diseases, in need of real cures, which don't affect enough people who are rich enough that they might make enough profit for private industry to pursue. Hence, they are orphaned.

Private industry would rather pursue medicines needing life-long dosing of people in the first world. So sleeping sickness isn't researched, but elevated HDL cholesterol is.

The pharmaceutical industry isn't in the business to cure people, it's to make as much $$$ as quickly as possible.

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Originally posted by rue:
Do you even read what you write?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Ever heard of 'venture capital' ?? I guess not so much w/ a heavily socialist state that you live in.

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What's with this 'dear' crap? Are you sly ?

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I knew you were British, but I didn't want to know any more than that.

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If you could present 'page upon page' of similar promises made by Bush, you would.

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That you don't means to me that you can't, because there are none. This main issue has nothing at all to do w/ Bush, despite your fixation with him( or with hating him ).

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Fact is, I make a valid comment about Edwards, you can't stand it ( or defend it ) so instead, you try to make this having something to do w/ Bush.

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Giving FALSE hope to those in need IS unconscionable. The reasons for action in Iraq weren't proven false, but I frankly don't give a damn what you think about that issue any way.

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As someone coming from such an enlightened nation people who can't afford to buy medical care are left to die on the street I'm sure you can tell me all about it. Shortly after you explain how many breakthroughs made with public money because the private sector deemed them to risky are completely useless.

BTW, while you're great economy is slipping my backwards socialist little nations is getting stronger everyday, I bet that eats your black little heart up eh my Capilista little friend.

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.... besides you wouldn't read any quotes I posted, it may shut down your brain to entertain that Bush isn't the greatest man who ever lived. And to be honest where do I start?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Now we're getting off topic well enough. No where are folks here being left to die on the streets for not being able to afford medical care.

Fact is, ANYONE can afford medicalCARE, but not everyone can keep pace w/ the rising cost of full health insurance coverage.

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And exactly how is our economy 'slippiing ' ?

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What's your unemployment rate ?

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And if you're economy is getting stronger, well jolly good! Most EU countries coundn't do much worse, so doing any better is a good start!

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Sounds like you enjoyed typing your diatribe over my alleged homophobia.

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I'm cool w/ the sly types, btw. Folks, as they say, are still folks.

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Still, the whole British/ gay thing didn't start or end with me, and I just thought you'd get a kick out of it. Seems like ya did.

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Keeping things limited like that would be ever so helpful to my simple, neolithic American male brain.

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Back to the point, I simply suggested that it'd be nice if you could back up your claims.

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If for no other reason, to see what it is you think Bush, or any other politician could claim that would sink to the level of what Edwards uttered. Again, you can't, and I stand validated. No biggie.

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You could start with ONE example.

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Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.

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And this STILL has nothing to do w/ Bush.

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As for Edwards, who is a Democrat,

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I plainly stated that, regardless of his political affiliation, I'd still have equal distain for his comments.

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So, you strike out on that point as well.

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Also, you didn't remotely show where I twisted any quotes,

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so you're left hung out to dry on THAT point as well!

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You're an American so you must be a beer swilling cowboy with the ignorance of a hill billy and the intelligence of a rather dim witted stuffed iguana.

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"I plainly stated that, regardless of his political affiliation, I'd still have equal distain for his comments." I presume you have equal disdain for Nancy Reagan's support for Federal funding of embryonic stem cell research? In a completely non-partisan way of course

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I merely pointed out that your racial stereotyping was stupid, silly and probably insulting if I didn't know ya and realise you were just trying to start a flame war because you know you're wrong and you need an exit strategy so you don't have to admit it.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
What's your unemployment rate ?

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Originally posted by citizen:
As of 2005 4.7%, for those interested the percentage for the US was 5.1%.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
Damn, are all you queer Brits this wordy when you respond ? Is it the queer thing or the Brit thing? Or both ? Anyways, I'll do this quick like.

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Healthcare: Monthly coverage for Insurance can cost around $250 a month, and more. There are free clinics and generic meds that folks can take advantage of. Unless you're talking catastrophic med care, anyone can afford medical ATTENTION here. The level of HC available for even the poorest here surpasses the best care found around the world.

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Please, don't talk about that which you have no clue.

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Our unemployment rate was at 4.4 %, and now is around 4.5%. It's no wonder you had to go back to 2005 to get your stats.

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The 'poor' here still have color tv's, own their own car, and live a higher standard of living than 3/4 of the world.

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Huh ? I never even racially stereo typed anyone. I know I'm not wrong , and I have no idea what you're blabbing on about.

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You still can't back up your claims, so I win that one. Again.

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
That's why they started printing our bills all sort of fruity Monopoly money colors, instead of our tried and true Greenbacks.... They're priming us for the one world currency.

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As can anybody who actually believes that their economy will surpass America's economy. Don't you realize that we're all merging into one world economy as we bicker?

Welcome to the New World Order, comrades.

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Originally posted by citizen:
It's strange that you'd think Brits are gay

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Originally posted by PirateCat:
I would like to put a few words in, first I need to losen my belt after a case of Ole Milwaukees Best well you understand, these brits are gay and I can prove it. First off their leader is a queen, their music is called queen, and they talk about smoken fags. And in the name of Sam Hill if that ain't Gay well I don't know what is. Also Mr Shakespear when you describe cowboys as Ignant use a capitol I.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Originally posted by PirateCat:
I would like to put a few words in, first I need to losen my belt after a case of Ole Milwaukees Best well you understand, these brits are gay and I can prove it. First off their leader is a queen, their music is called queen, and they talk about smoken fags. And in the name of Sam Hill if that ain't Gay well I don't know what is. Also Mr Shakespear when you describe cowboys as Ignant use a capitol I.

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I did, but you ignored it because you can't argue against it, prefering instead to call me and all British people homosexual,

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
No, you didn't. You even admitted you didn't have an example, then you tried to switch the issue back to the silly gay thing. Maybe I hit a nerve after all Hmmmm.

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Originally posted by citizen:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
No, you didn't. You even admitted you didn't have an example, then you tried to switch the issue back to the silly gay thing. Maybe I hit a nerve after all Hmmmm.

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My god, you are actually delusional. Maybe you should read the posts you reply to before replying, lest you continue to make yourself look like a complete twat. There's a quote from Bush with my comments in my post and there always has been. Evidently you are incapable of reading.

I certainly didn't admit to not having a quote. You're living on cloud cuckoo land. Maybe you should go take your meds then return when you have stopped hallucinating.

By just denying the words I wrote are there, right there for all to see you're just making yourself look like a crazy person.

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Fact is, many were saying the exact same thing and even more damning things about Iraq long before Bush was in office, and even after he was in office. Sorry, but that fact alone makes Bush's comments far and away above anything Edwards said about ESC research. And then there's the small matter of the U.N, it's 17 Resolutions, the 15-0 Security council vote.....Sorry, but you've got nothing on this issue.

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Originally posted by citizen:
Brokeback mountain was about cowboys.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
You offered no quote.

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You then stated that even if you DID have one, I'd not read it.

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Besides if I were to post quotes it would merely lead to a stalemate where you got you knickers all in a twist showing how they're really good and stuff.

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But as for the Bush 'reference' you gave before I clarified my thoughts -

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Fact is, many were saying the exact same thing and even more damning things about Iraq long before Bush was in office, and even after he was in office. Sorry, but that fact alone makes Bush's comments far and away above anything Edwards said about ESC research. And then there's the small matter of the U.N, it's 17 Resolutions, the 15-0 Security council vote.....Sorry, but you've got nothing on this issue.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
See here, citizen, this is what caused the confusion.

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You posted a quote,finally, after a post or 2,....and nothing else. No ' Bush said ' or context,time, etc, initially.

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But it was so inconsequential and meaningless w/ respect to the discussion we're having, it was easy to miss.

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Bush was among a chorus of those saying Iraq had WMD. So what ?

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How's that compare to what Edwards said ? It doesn't.

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And I didn't lie by going back to change my post, I wasn't even aware you had replied already. I simply edited my own post, which is my right, and there was nothing at all in the way of trying to pull one over on you.

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I even went to the trouble of noting I changed my comments in my follow up reply. So, lighten up.

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Jesus H.... what a waste of time and effort here.

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The next time you want to venture into talking about US politics when you know nothing about it, do us a favor and DON'T.

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but given the current state of affairs i'd even take Palpatine/Vader 2008... at least some COMPETENT evil dictators for once.

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Originally posted by PirateCat:
solve Northern Irelands problem before ya talk about US issues jackass.

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Next time you want to venture into talking about anything beyond Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel or Firefly, of which you have conclusively proven you know nothing, please do everyone a favour and don't. Funny you have no answers for 7%, I would put money on him understanding the US political system far better than you.

I would also put money on George Bush campaign managers being less partisan than you, but that's not only by the by, but blindingly obvious to anyone who has ever read one of your posts.

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Funny you have no answers for 7%, I would put money on him understanding the US political system far better than you.

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No, but the fundies are scared of Jesus, and the current admins used their fear of science to scare up votes in the last election.

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What's the harm in pumping money and scientists into that research? Many awesome discoveries came out of projects relating to a bigger one. Who knows what we can find on the way?

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Superman is a cultural icon. Is (was) Reeves more important than any of those people to you? No. But as a cultural icon, wouldn't it be great if the man who was a hero to the world, and after his accident a hero to the disabled, be able to walk again? My God, the hope that would have given the world would have been stunning.

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But I want to bring something to your attention. You're over in other threads praising the death of Saddam. To the average Iraqi, is his hanging more important than when their brother got killed by accident by American forces? Or blown up in a car bomb by terrorists who weren't there when we started? It's amazing how you can sit here in one thread and get your righteous indignation on about saying one person isn't more important than another, then in an entirely different thread say that people should understand how certain people are more important than others, and be proud how one person was taken out at the cost of tens of thousands of lives. It's hypocracy.

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Really? Bush said he was going to transform the mid-east into a democratic place by attacking Iraq. You still follow him happy-slappy down that magical fairy tale, long after people said it was a disaster. I guess you just can't recognize all those snake-oil salesmen, can you AU?

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Edwards made a thousand goofs and misquotes and "snake-oil" pitches in the last election cycle. But you, in your typical disingenuous fashion, pick the one decent quote the guy said and twist it. I don't even like the guy, and you made me want to defend him. Good job.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

The Bush admin used their fear of science to scare up votes? Exactly how was that done ? And how'd that turn out, huh? I don't think the public gave two flips about the issue.

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The harm is that there is a finite amount of $$ for reasearch. And if you throw that $ down the rabbit hole chasing miracle cures from ESCs when there are very REAL cures and advances being made from adult stem cells, very real results being made TODAY, then you delay helpful treatments for untold numbers of paitents for the gamble that a few more could be helped down the road.

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You want a feel good story ? Read up on what Lance Armstrong was facing [...blah blah blah...] to the power of the human spirit. They shall not soon be forgotten.

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I have no idea where you're going w/ this paragraph.

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Saddam murdered 10,000's of his own citizens. HE was directly responsible for the rape, torture and murder of his own countrymen. He commmitted crimes against humanity, and how you are oblivious to that really stuns me. Saddam is directly responsible for far more deaths of Iraqis than are the U.S. forces. There's no hypocrisy on my part, what so ever.

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You see the Islamic terrorist as blameless for all the car bombs, rocket attacks, kidnappings, beheadings, etc.... I don't.

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There in lies the difference between us, I suppose.

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How in the world was Edward's heinous comment in any way 'decent' ??

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And just where the hell did I TWIST anything ?

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If you want to defend that heartless lawyer , by all means, have at it.

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Its you who has to face the reflection in mirror every morning. Hope you can stomach what you see.

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The fact that American scientists are fleeing the country for other countries where the research is legal

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The difference is I'm smart enough to realize that Islamic terrorists weren't in Iraq before we got there.

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Is it really that hard for you to grasp how you are saying two completely opposite things? In one thread, no one person is more important than another, in an alternate thread, one person is more important than thousands. Hypocrite.

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I explained all that in my first post in this thread. I'm only going to repeat one portion. You acted like his whole comment involved some psychic link that knew about the imminent death of Reeves and was made worse by it. It's not twisted, it's just idiotic.

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