Databases, vaccinations - where do you draw the line? And why? by rue

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Databases, vaccinations - where do you draw the line? And why?

POSTED BY: RUE
UPDATED: Friday, February 9, 2007 00:21
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Monday, February 5, 2007 9:11 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

U.S. Set to Begin a Vast Expansion of DNA Sampling
By JULIA PRESTON
New rules will allow the collection of DNA from most people arrested or detained by federal authorities.
-----------------------

I'm just looking for opinions. I haven't seen a whole lot of distress over government and business data-mining entire populations. But I have seen some angst over mandatory vaccinations for example.

So I'm just hoping that people like 6-string, FremD, SgtX will lay out their beliefs.

THANKS

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Monday, February 5, 2007 9:31 AM

ANTIMASON

Quote:
posted by Rue- I'm just looking for opinions. I haven't seen a whole lot of distress over government and business data-mining entire populations. But I have seen some angst over mandatory vaccinations for example.

So I'm just hoping that people like 6-string, FremD, SgtX will lay out their beliefs.

you dont want my opinion? im as much the token conspiracy theorist as the next guy... of course, im the crazed theist of the group, so maybe my perspective is irrelevant...

what is so baffling to me is that people continue to overlook the obvious motive of all this techno infringement. is it only obvious to those who understand the NWO agenda that the elite have admitted that the GOAL is a global microchipped population? the first phase of that is the '08 real ID act.. afterwhich the veri-chip corporation, which has has already stated this on record, that microchips will replace bar-codes, allowing for a virtual inventory, but also for these data mining techniques to assemble a customer archive of product preferences- a more complete assemblage of private info, available on command via the cross referencing of your on body ID chip. then all we need is a national DNA data base.. and finally the last vestigas of personal privacy will be gone wiht 'the old world'.

but maybe this is a good thing? .. i say bring on the enslavement! its for our own good.. we dont deserve privacy

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Monday, February 5, 2007 2:19 PM

KHYRON

This thread smells like pirate bait.

The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Monday, February 5, 2007 3:44 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Interesting...

Well, on the one hand, DNA sampling is a lot like fingerprinting.

It allows the police to identify you, and to identify places where you may have committed a crime.

On the other hand... No... I can't really see where a DNA sample is substantively different from fingerprinting, apart from being more widely useful.

Can anyone else think of a reason that DNA sampling is much more invasive than fingerprinting?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, February 5, 2007 3:57 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
but maybe this is a good thing? .. i say bring on the enslavement! its for our own good.. we dont deserve privacy"

Antimason,

If indeed this is the first of many steps to the inevitable 'number of the beast' then indeed it is best to cheer it forward.

I'd like to get through the end of days and the inevitable torture you and I are slated to receive by the establishment for failure to comply as quickly as possible.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Monday, February 5, 2007 4:50 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I intended to reply, but im outta time and we had two cabs wipe out today due to black ice and we're real shorthanded for the next while...
You'd think they'd learn to freakin drive in snow and ice since they LIVE here, yes ?

I hope to hell they didn't wreck #28, cause imma need that damned junker in this weather.

So ya might hafta wait a bit, ok Rue ?

-F

(#28 is a gasguzzling relic we normally don't use but it has oversized offroad tires on the rear and enduro bajas on the front, and enough horsepower to push a dumptruck if she has to)

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Tuesday, February 6, 2007 7:23 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Hey, I learned to drive in Buffalo. If you don't have anywhere you HAVE to be in winter, it can be exciting. But day after day ... ouch. Take your time, be safe driving.

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Tuesday, February 6, 2007 7:24 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I wasn't trying to exclude anyone by posting a few names. I'm just looking for opinions.

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Tuesday, February 6, 2007 8:08 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Actually I draw the line pretty close.
File under "Saw that comin" you might say.

The whole privacy issue came to my attention during the early/mid-90's when the FBI was passionately studying and attempting to duplicate the Soviet SORM-II internet monitoring system.

It struck me then that it was a very bad idea to copy the tactics of a very repressive regime to "enforce order" here, and we raised some hell about it.

Congress called the FBI on the carpet over this, absolutely forbade them to research, build, or fund such a horror in any way shape or form - and the FBI in keeping with their mad-dog heritage went right on ahead and did it anyway under the codename CARNIVORE, and later OMNIVORE, in direct defiance of Congressional Authority, and used it to spy on americans in breach of their charter.

Actually, if you research the history of the FBI all the way back to 1908, it becomes pointedless obvious they've been all but useless in their primary purpose, and spend most of their time spying on, harrassing and otherwise intimidating the very people they are supposed to be protecting.

My line with them is dissolution, all of these "alphabet agencies" are unconstitutional, wasteful resource hogs that accomplish little but the annoyance and intimidation of the citizenry, policing of any kind should come from the communities themselves with state subsidies if the state's citizenry votes to do so.

Credit agencies are another beef of mine, the while IDEA of credit and paper money is a recipe for disaster, but that's another topic entire.

All three of the major credit reporting companies are the very scum of the earth who'll stop at nothing to get data, and yet make little to no effort to ensure that it is geniuine, and then hand it out to any scumwad on the planet with a vendor license and then after stealing or extorting your information, then blame YOU for not protecting it enough.

Fact is, most ID thieves just buy the data from the credit companies, businesses or dataminers, who hand it right over without a second thought as long as money changes hands.

Most of the credit industry's so-called initiative to "prevent ID theft" is a fraud and a masquerade to cover fishing expeditions to get even MORE data out of you, which, again, they'll just hand right over to the scum for a buck.

And the Gov has begun to make use of these slime instead of cracking down, by purchasing this info themselves, circumventing the law against them doing so.

As for DNA, none of their goddamned business any more than my prints are - the last time I willingly gave the cops my prints was when I was 13 and in trouble for inciting an anti-dress code riot at my school - the student government overruled their new dress code and cited that it needed some revisions, to which the school responded by simply dissolving the student government, way to teach the kids how "democracy" in this country REALLY works...

So we had a riot, and when they wanted my prints, boy did they EVER get em, bwahahah, all over every surface in the station I could reach, the more the better!
My mother wasn't sure who she was rescuing from who when she showed up to get me.

Anyhow, DNA - no, no way in hell, because if you don't think that employers and health insurers will start collecting it legally or not as an excuse to deny you benefits, you're damned naive.

Throw in the absolute incompetence of most crime labs and a history of rigging even DNA tests and you've got a recipe for real disaster combined with the very real possibility of an unofficial eugenics plan.
(See Also: Gattica - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177/ )

Data retention is also a factor, hell, just look at your credit card billing recipts and imagine some high-strung Government wacko building a picture of your life from them and throwing in a few assumptions...
Scary thought, innit ?

It's worth the hassle to pay with cash - and most Anarchists, especially the technically skilled also take payment in barter, which is trade, which is under the Dept of Agriculture, which has NO POWER TO TAX.

Ergo if you trade me a couple of your old PS2 games for a carb clean and points replacement on your scoot, the transaction begins and ends there, I don't keep records and I don't give reciepts, all you've got is my word, sure.
(under an alias of course)
But in the small engine community that's as good as gold ingots in hand.

As for chipping stuff and RFID, the best answer to that is to show how easy exploits and sabotage are, CDC, The 2600 and related folk have their place even if not well liked, and I already carry an RFID screamer which amplifies the scan signal radically and feeds it back as gibberish - and we're working on something to fubar cameras too but not sharing the details till we have a workin prototype.

Making funnyfaces at biometric face scanners totally munges them up btw.

As for dataminers, we just adapt a policy used mostly against stalkers up till now, the concept of "poisoning the well" - you see most dataminer sites are run by slime, and demand you provide all sorts of details to be 'de-listed'.. which they promptly steal up and update your info with, the sumbitches - and even if you could get delisted from one, there's thirty thousand more, right ?

So you feed them false addresses, phony names, wrong phone numbers, and just poison the well so badly no one can ever be SURE they've got the right info, the folks that wised up and cottoned to this early enough are by now effectively buried to the point of absolute obscurity.

Make it your first reaction to any informational question.
"How is it any of your business ?"

The store wants your zipcode, LIE
(Give them a zipcode far, far away, memorize one for the purpose)

The site wants your e-mail, LIE
(Give them some temporary free crap box you'll dump in a week)

Some company wants your address for "Research Purposes", LIE
(Give the address of your local most hated business or something)

They're lying to you, after all - they want you info so they can SELL it, something for nothing, so remember that info is power and if they want it from you, before you spill it make damned sure you get real value for it.

I could go on and on, but without a more directed line of reasoning to express, or more specific questions, it would just be more rambling and rabbling.

And yes, #28 is still functional, but it's cleared up a good bit and we might have one of the wrecked cabs back in service by tomorrow, it don't look too bad as yet.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Thursday, February 8, 2007 7:36 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Actually I draw the line pretty close.

Me too. Intrusion is intrusion. Whenever the govt comes anywhere near my body without my permission, it is abhorrent.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)

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Friday, February 9, 2007 12:21 AM

6IXSTRINGJACK

Your post was a pleasure to read as always Frem.

Thanks for the nod Rue! I kind of feel like a psuedo-celebrity like Tony Danza & Rhonda Shear or Patrick Duffy.

I don't really have anything much to add here that hasn't been said. I'm sure everybody here knows where I stand on this issue. All I've got is a similar story about fingerprints. Not nearly as entertaining as Frem's, but pretty eerie.

I was in first or second grade, before we had the D.A.R.E. program to keep all us kids who grew up doing drugs off of drugs, before we ever did the drugs in the first place. Well that didn't work... but that's another story.

Before we were old enough that they felt we could handle the drug talks, they gave us Crime Dog McGruff. Now I'm assuming that this is a national icon, but it may have just been in the Chicagoland area. Anyways.... Crimedog McGruff spent most of his days terrorizing children and single moms like mine by telling them of all of the rapists in our hometowns that dressed up like clowns and offered candy to kids from their white rapist vans. Where they subsequently lured said kids and then, you guessed it, raped them. Usually, as the story goes, the kid was found several weeks later face down in a ditch and Bozo the Twisted Rapist Clown always got away with it to do it again. McGruff always offered that sage advice "Never talk to strangers".

Now of course, being rational adults, most people would know that 9,999 white vans out of 10,000 at the very least are for work related purposes only (maybe the occasional romp with another conscenting adult), but not used at all to kidnap and rape little kids. If you live in TV land and watch cop shows all day, you're likely to believe even your kids are evil people, but if you really make an attempt at living in the real world you'll know that most people are basically decent and completely uncapable of ever doing something so aweful. Unfortunately still, I thinkit worked at least as good as they expected. Here I am at 27 years old and I have a very hard time talking to strangers. I'm not a bad looking guy and as far as brains are concerned, I've got a surplus... though I'm sure some of you know that I can be a real pain in the ass and I don't imagine that I'm much different that way in real life. Even given all that, I'm practically agorophobic unless I'm going somewhere with somebody I know. Was this McGruff's doing in full or in part? Who can say. That's neither here or there, nor the point of this story.

The real point was how one day somebody dressed like Crime Dog McGruff came to our school with the cops and got every single student in the school to give their fingerprints. The logic here being, of course, the safety of the children in mind. We were told that if we were ever kidnapped, the fingerprints could then be used to find us. The how was never explained... though I assume it would have been by some cop "magic" that we've never even heard about on Sesemie Street or Mr. Rogers. Being about 7 years old, this seemed reasonable enough and besides, who could say no to loveable crimedog McGruff?

Yeah.... so here I am now. I'm 27 and I've never been to prison or jail. I've had a few minor traffic violations, but I've never done anything which would require my fingerprints before I left. Yet, I'd be willing to bet every cent I've accumulated that my fingerprints are in that central database in the CIA computers.

Innocient until proven guilty...... not in this country buddy.

BTW.... Has anybody ever heard of any kidnapped kid ever being found because of their fingerprints? I'd really sleep better at night if I knew that the police didn't just come to my school and blatently lie to a bunch of 7 year olds and their parents to get their prints for the CIA database without the intention of ever using that information for good.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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