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HUNTER: They don't have a good - marketing. If they had hallmark cards, maybe they wouldn't feel so left out. We have Christmas cards. We have Kwanza cards now. Maybe they need to get some atheist cards and get that whole ball rolling so more people can get involved with what they're doing. I think they need to shut up and let people do what they do. No, I think they need to shut up about it.

SMITH: I don't think they need to shut up. The reason why I don't think they need to shut up is because there's a whole bunch of people in this world that we can look at and say they need to shut up and they certainly don't. You got everybody fighting for their own individual cause. This is their cause. We might not like it. I don't agree with it at all, but they do have a right.

HUNTER: I think they need to shut up about crying wolf all the time and saying that they're being imposed upon. I personally think that they should never have taken prayer out of schools. I would rather there be some morality in schools. But they did that because an atheist went to court and said their child -- don't pray (INAUDIBLE).

SCHLUSSEL: And what about this obnoxious Michael Newdow, who went all the way to the Supreme Court for his child, the child doesn't know what's going on, to try and get under God taken out of the pledge of allegiance. They are on the attack. It's obnoxious and they do need to shut up.

SMITH: They are going on the attack, but the reality, again, is everybody has their own cause. The fact is there's a whole bunch of people in America who need to shut up and they don't. So why should these people be any less. We live in a nation. We're supposed to be tolerant. We're supposed to be accepting of other people's viewpoints, even when they are not our own and the fact is, if they're an atheist, that's their right. They're not going to change my belief in God (INAUDIBLE).

ZAHN: What I find so interesting is when you look at the statistics, that they were the most hated of all the minorities, gays (INAUDIBLE).

SMITH: I'm not even willing to believe that. That's news to me. I heard that, I read that, I just don't believe it.

HUNTER: You can't pick an atheist out of a crowd.

ZAHN: Can you explain to me where you feel the assault? When 97 percent of the folks in this country claim to worship some kind of God, the 1 to 3 percent of this population that doesn't believe in God, who are they hurting?

HUNTER: Eight to 12 percent. (INAUDIBLE) They're not hurting anyone. I personally don't have a problem with an atheist. Believe or don't believe what you want. Don't impose upon my right to want to have prayer in schools, to want to say the pledge of allegiance, to want to honor my God. Don't infringe upon that right.

SMITH: When they want to take - when they want to take God out of the pledge of allegiance or whatever, this is what I'm saying. They're saying, OK, that's Christian. What if you're a Muslim? What if you're someone of a different belief?

SCHLUSSEL: This is a Christian country.

SMITH: I understand that, but what they're saying is how can -- if we're inclusionary, why can't we include all that and we're not. That's my point.

SCHLUSSEL: (INAUDIBLE) Look where there are more atheists and where they've lost God, where the church is not that strong. Europe is becoming Islamist. It's fast falling and intolerance is increasing. That's the one reason our country has not become like Europe because we have strong Christians and because atheists are not strong. And I think that's a good thing.

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SCHLUSSEL: This is a Christian country.

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Originally posted by yinyang:
SCHLUSSEL: (INAUDIBLE) Look where there are more atheists and where they've lost God, where the church is not that strong. Europe is becoming Islamist. It's fast falling and intolerance is increasing. That's the one reason our country has not become like Europe because we have strong Christians and because atheists are not strong. And I think that's a good thing.

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Originally posted by Geezer:

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SCHLUSSEL: This is a Christian country.

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Well, there's your problem right there.


"Keep the Shiny side up"

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"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

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newoldbrowncoat-

That certainly is the problem , right there. No, it ain't a Christian nation. Never was. I thought that one had been so thoroughly debunked that no one would use it anywhere anymore.
Anything that person says after that point is tainted with absolute non-factuality.

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Originally posted by antimason:
and Citizen- can you not tell by this board alone that atheism is perfectly well represented in the US? that in mind, i cant recall any time 'believers' got together and murdered an atheist .. which sounds to me like a pretty indifferent, stereotypical comment on your part. the comment about atheists not being "strong" i dont agree with either.. but then my intentions are not divisiviness

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Originally posted by sahara:

So what are they trying to say, if we don't wipe out those nasty atheists, we'll be overrun by Islamists? That if we're not all Xians, we'll fall and become *more* intolerant? I'm so confused.

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Something happened over the last 24 hours. Beginning last night, my inbox became populated with vile hate-mail from atheists. No skin off my back.

But it is entertaining and amusing. It's hard to believe their letters because they were all attacking me for my appearance on CNN's "Paula Zahn Now," a week ago, but coincidentally each letter claims the sender just watched me on CNN. First of all, the video of that segment appears nowhere on the net. Believe me, if it did, I'd link to it. Secondly, since I appeared on the show a week ago, that all these "seminar" e-mailers are now all e-mailing me the same basic hate message, populated with a diversity of obscene insults, it's easier to believe that they were easily brainwashed into sending me the missives as a result of an atheist blog that just put up an attack on me, yesterday.

I'm surprised these atheists would be so obedient to a higher power that told them to e-mail me since, after all, the one thing they're supposed to have in common is a lack of belief in a higher power. Well, no-one ever said atheists are consistent or immune from hypocrisy.

I don't mind receiving the atheist hate mail, since I know that in a few years, many of these same people will either be Muslim extremists (redundant) or helping the country fall further in its fight against the creep of Islamic imposition on America . . . or both.

Look at famous atheists and what happened to them. Adam Gadahn a/k/a Azzam Al-Amriki--now a top Al-Qaeda video "personality"--was raised by his hippie Jewish father and equally bizarre gentile mother as an atheist. And look how he turned out. Ditto for hippie-spawn John Walker Lindh.

Those two people are enemies of America, and many of those who think like them are of equally weak mind. If you don't believe in anything, you'll easily fall for virtual nothings. That's why Europe is so quickly turning Islamist--because atheism dominates and Christianity is rapidly dying there. Over there, the number one cause for which atheists are suddenly finding "god" is Islam.

Over here, as I pointed out on CNN, atheists are on the attack against religion and G-d only when Christians and Jews are involved, not when Muslims and Islam are. A Christian prayer at a public school graduation or football game? Send in the ACLU lawyers. A Muslim prayer at a high school football game in Dearbornistan? Suddenly, when the "Religion of Peace" is involved, atheists boast extreme tolerance and display ultimate deference. No lawsuits. Ever. And the Muslim prayers continue.

So to you hate-filled atheists a/k/a future Muslim extremists (redundant), your e-mails have no effect on me. Ditto for your creative obscenities which don't impress upon me the civility of the atheo-fascisti set.

But thanks for the material for this post. And nice try, telling me you saw me on CNN, last night. That was a week ago. Last night, was when Sean Hannity deliberately plagiarized my work on Islamic imam Husham Al-Husainy on FOX News. Different network, different show, my name clearly not mentioned (just my work ripped off by Hannity; Thanks, Sean).

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Originally posted by antimason:
can you not tell by this board alone that atheism is perfectly well represented in the US?

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Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
These women are idiots. They're no different than Oprah or Jerry or any of the other daytime talkshow people who have been poisoning the minds of people for years and laughing all the way to the bank.

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I don't understand what the big deal about saying God in the pledge of allegiance is. Why can't any kid say whatever they want to there. There should be a big old blank spot in the pledge for somebody to say God, Allah, Buddah, eight-armed-elephant-god, Tony the Tiger, Pikachu, Michael Jordan or nothing at all.

.....that wouldn't go along with public school's top priority which is blanket conformity at all costs.

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I think anyone should be able to pray whenever they want to. No reason that should offend anyone either.

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Just a suggestion... if you really want to come off as a tolerant atheist who isn't really trying to get under religious peoples skins, you may want to refrain from using the X.... or not. That's freedom, ain't it?

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Originally posted by yinyang:

And here I thought public school's top priority was to rake in money (or, in a few places, to actually educate). Although blanket conformity certainly would make it easier for teachers to teach, and for the boards of education to get the numbers they want, I don't think the intent of things like uniforms is necessarily malicious. It's not good, either, but the main concern of parents and teachers should be that the public school system is being run like a business, or a training ground for future factory workers.

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I don't understand what the big deal about saying God in the pledge of allegiance is.

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
...but we're English so being strange is expected.

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Originally posted by Khyron:

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
...but we're English so being strange is expected.

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If one is an Englishman, one isn't strange, one is eccentric.

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The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Originally posted by Khyron:

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
...but we're English so being strange is expected.

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If one is an Englishman, one isn't strange, one is eccentric.

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The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter.

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
And Seven, imma hafta call BS on you,

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It would be one thing for the school to work with the students to create a uniform worn by students as a badge of school pride, with their input and suggestions, but that is NOT how it is done.

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They are shoved down the kids throats as a gesture of their inferiority, {edit...} and to erase all differences so that such need not be explained, explored and/or understood.

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And for those who still buck the tide there's the outright tsunami of ritalin to bury them under medical coercion, {edited...} fix a scheme that teaches obedience rather than critical thinking, oh hell no.

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Very, VERY touchy issue with me, having been forcibly ejected from schools for being a critical thinker, for asking questions and for not being a nice, obedient pet animal, but rather a person who demanded the same basic respect as a human being that was being given.

And now watching my niece go through an upgraded and worse rendition of the very selfsame events because she doesn't meekly obey, because she is intelligent, curious, and creative and yet rather than rewarded by this, is actively harrassed and punished for it by the system, fills me with a blinding red rage that anyone would dare call our current system educational... well, that it may be, but what values do you think my niece is learning when she now sees adults and society as enemies ?

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Sure, you get a shining example here and there who's an actual teacher, and benefit of the doubt to you on that respect, Seven, cause I've also had more than one of those... but don't expect someone who has seen and fully investigated, and tried to change, that system to not see it for what it has become.

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do you get to tell the GM of your company exactly what way you think it should be run

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
You're only allowed to be eccentric once you've mastered strange. We all get a basic education in strange, those that chose to pursue that to a higher level become eccentric. Trust me on this I have A levels in eccentric.

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Originally posted by SevenPercent:

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
And Seven, imma hafta call BS on you,

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Fine, then don't be surprised when I do it right back, because I'm about to.

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It would be one thing for the school to work with the students to create a uniform worn by students as a badge of school pride, with their input and suggestions, but that is NOT how it is done.

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Of course it isn't done like that. Would you like to know why? Because you can't make everyone happy, that's why. One group wants it this way, one group wants it that way, the 51% majority that sets the rule pisses off the 49% that didn't, then parents get involved or the students that lost spend time running around trying to get petitions signed. And, really, what is there to work with? What kind of 'design' do you really need to have? Khakis and shirts that match the school colors. End of story, everyone matches.

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They are shoved down the kids throats as a gesture of their inferiority, {edit...} and to erase all differences so that such need not be explained, explored and/or understood.

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Yes, because we should just let the kids run around thinking they are on an equal power level with the faculty and staff. No one wants them to be inferior, but we do want them to respect authority. Do you get a say in how you should dress at work? Unless you're your own, do you get to tell the GM of your company exactly what way you think it should be run, and that you won't work if he doesn't do it your way? That's what you're advocating.

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And for those who still buck the tide there's the outright tsunami of ritalin to bury them under medical coercion, {edited...} fix a scheme that teaches obedience rather than critical thinking, oh hell no.

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What's up, Piratenews. I think ADD is a crutch, so do most teachers, and ritalin is a joke. You know who forces that down our throats? Parents, that's who. Little James doesn't do well in school because mommy never taught him to behave, and they run right out to the doctor and get ritalin so he can have an excuse. DO NOT EVER pin that shit on teachers, that's an outside issue. I can't think of the last time I EVER heard a teacher say, I think your kid needs ritalin so he can be a mindless drone. You're pinning that tain on the wrong donkey.

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Very, VERY touchy issue with me, having been forcibly ejected from schools for being a critical thinker, for asking questions and for not being a nice, obedient pet animal, but rather a person who demanded the same basic respect as a human being that was being given.

And now watching my niece go through an upgraded and worse rendition of the very selfsame events because she doesn't meekly obey, because she is intelligent, curious, and creative and yet rather than rewarded by this, is actively harrassed and punished for it by the system, fills me with a blinding red rage that anyone would dare call our current system educational... well, that it may be, but what values do you think my niece is learning when she now sees adults and society as enemies ?

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And here's where I call BS. You know what this post smacks of? You didn't like a certain class, and didn't want to pay attention, and you pin it on the system. I see this every day.

Let me show everyone how this plays out:
I teach English. Little Frem wants to sit in my class and draw, or sit in my class and do Sudoku when he should be following along. I say something, or write him up, or make him put it away. Suddenly I'm 'stifling the curiosity' of the gifted. Little Frem should be allowed to learn what he wants, when he wants, and if he's a math genius, then I'm in the way of his learning and am turning him into an automaton. Is that about right? Because that's what it sounds like to me. Trust me, I've heard that same thing from a hundred parents, and that's the way the story always goes. "You should respect the fact that my kid wants to be a musician/athlete/math whiz and let him work on that stuff in your class." No, I teach English, and little Frem should be focused on my class. And then, when he fails because he didn't pay attention (because his folks never made him), I'm told he's been diagnosed with ADD, given ritalin, and I should pass him anyway (and on top of it, I've killed his desire for music/art/athletics).

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Sure, you get a shining example here and there who's an actual teacher, and benefit of the doubt to you on that respect, Seven, cause I've also had more than one of those... but don't expect someone who has seen and fully investigated, and tried to change, that system to not see it for what it has become.

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You should be grateful to all your teachers. Yes, some shouldn't be teaching anymore, some are phoning it in. But there's not a single teacher out there that didn't start teaching without the desire to help kids learn and grow as people. And if they took less shit from parents and the gov't, there'd be fewer that were burned out.

Yes, the bureaucracy sucks ass, and I wish some things were different. But when you can come up with a way to get all children rich and poor the chance to learn in such a way as to advance the gifted, bring up the needy, and try and make decent citizens, send it out to the gov't or to all teachers, because they (and we) don't know how to do it.


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"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V

Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.

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Originally posted by Khyron:
[ it went on to describe, in detail, the bicycle manufacturing industry in Southampton during the 1920s.

Not surprisingly, the author was English.

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
Now there's an excellent subject. My personal favorite is the Wilson-Purbright "Superior" of 1926. First practical application of a fully automatic transmission to a standard bicycle. Who knows what other great innovations Horace Wilson would have given the cycling public where it not for his tragic death in a freak crocodile juggling accident.

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Originally posted by Khyron:

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
You're only allowed to be eccentric once you've mastered strange. We all get a basic education in strange, those that chose to pursue that to a higher level become eccentric. Trust me on this I have A levels in eccentric.

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I wasn't able to take Eccentricity at A levels, so I tried to teach myself by using English Eccentricity for Dummies. It wasn't quite what I expected though, because after a brief introduction to the orbital eccentricities of planets, it went on to describe, in detail, the bicycle manufacturing industry in Southampton during the 1920s.

Not surprisingly, the author was English.

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Originally posted by Fletch2:
Last time I checked that activity was illegal in England. In theory since assault is a crime prescribed by statute and since you can't give someone permission to break the law, you can't consent to have another person strike you. There was a famous case in the early 1990's that in effect make SM activities illegal in the UK though apparently not sports like boxing where you actually have a chance of killing someone.

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