REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Libby trial goes to jury. Any predictions?

POSTED BY: SOUPCATCHER
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 6, 2007 09:29
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3017
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:59 AM

SOUPCATCHER


Hey all,

I'm not sure how many of you have been following the Scooter Libby trial. Quick summary: this is the first case to go to trial from the Plame leak. Closing arguments were yesterday and the jury should start deliberating today. The five counts are all related to Libby's grand jury testimony and discrepancies the government found between what he testified there and what he told the FBI and what others testified.

I've been following some of the coverage over at firedoglake.com (not all of it, there's way too much information for me to keep up with - what with the live blogging from the courtroom and the multiple posts from the panel of people they've assembled who were able to procure press passes: a prosecutor, a defense attorney, an author of a book about the Plame leak, etc.). Mainly I watch the nightly summary clips that politicsTV has put together. But today, I actually kept up with the live blogging of the closing arguments. It seems really bad when the lead defense attorney buries his head in his hands after giving his closing and doesn't even look up during the prosecution's rebuttal. Aside from that oddity, I personally thought that the end of Fitzgerald's rebuttal to defense's closing today was magnificent. Especially the part where he outlined why obstructing a federal investigation by lying is a bad thing.
Quote:

typos fixed from http://www.firedoglake.com/2007/02/20/libby-live-fitzgeralds-rebuttal-
two
/


*** live-blogged - not an exact transcript ***

Don't you think [the] FBI deserves straight answers. When you go in that jury room, your commonsense will tell you that he made a gamble. He threw sand in the eyes of the FBI. He stole the truth of the judicial system. You return guilty, you give truth back.


I'd like to get the perspective from any lawyers out there: is it ever a good thing when the person on trial doesn't give evidence in their own defense?

My guess is that he is found guilty on some of the counts. I would be very surprised on a not guilty on all counts. And then... Cheney?


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:44 AM

MEDFORDTIM


That would be nice, but I think it'll be more like "Presidential pardon time" before he can be flipped to testify against Cheney.

I'm not a lawyer, don't even play one on TV, but it's not unusual for a defendent to not take the stand - especially if the prosecutor is on the ball. Leaves too many openings - why make it worse than it is?

Did you read the Larry Johnson piece? Well worth a read, especially for those who haven't had a chance to keep up with events. I posted it over at the Young Turks: http://www.theyoungturks.com/story/2007/2/19/92238/9720



Anyway, that's what I think...

MT

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 5:23 AM

DAYVE



I predict that I. Scooter Libby will receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom from a gushing G.W. Bush for his loyal dedication to preserving the bacon of Dicky-Boy.

There is very little justice in this country when it comes to FOG…(friends of George)….if there were, Dick Cheney would be in the hot seat not Scooter.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 6:25 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


There's no crime here, other than failure to remember what who said to whom, and when. Big deal. No one finds it odd that Libby isn't even being tried for 'outing' Plame ? WHY ? Because she wasn't a covert operative, or because Libby didn't out her in the 1st place.


What Americans REALLY care about is why Sandy Burglar isn't being held for stealing from the National Archives ? Clinton's former NSA hid TOP SECRET papers related to the 9-11 Commission in a construction site, so the claim that he absent mindedly brought out some papers in a unkempt shuffle is complete bunk. There's far more to this story that isn't being reported, and yet all we hear about from some is ' Libby' ??/ WTF ?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:05 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important


"What Americans REALLY care about is..."

I'm not convinced Americans really care about any of this.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 7:20 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by AnthonyT:
"What Americans REALLY care about is..."

I'm not convinced Americans really care about any of this.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner




Sadly, you're probably right. It's Anna Nichole and Britney, 24/7



People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:12 AM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
There's no crime here, other than failure to remember what who said to whom, and when. Big deal. No one finds it odd that Libby isn't even being tried for 'outing' Plame ? WHY ? Because she wasn't a covert operative, or because Libby didn't out her in the 1st place.


Larry Johnson, who worked for the CIA and came into the agency in the same class as Valerie Plame, had a piece on his blog yesterday about just that issue (whether Plame was a covert operative).
Quote:

excerpted from http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2007/02/was_she_covert.html
...
There are two types of people who work at CIA. First are the "overt" employees. These are folks who can declare on their resume or any credit application that they are a CIA employee. Their status is not classified and their relationship with the CIA is openly acknowledged. Valerie Plame was never an "overt" employee. At no time during her entire time at the CIA did she identify herself as a CIA employee. Although she appeared in Who's Who as the wife of Ambassador Wilson there is no reference whatsoever to her having a job at the CIA. Zippo!

The remaining category of employee is covert. Covert employees include people who work under "official cover" and people who work under "non-official cover". A former CIA officer, Tom Gilligan, discussed both types of cover in his book CIA Life: 10,000 Days With the Agency. Official cover means the employee can say that he or she works for the United States Government, e.g. State Department, but at no time do you admit publicly that you work for the CIA. You get the added benefit of carrying an official or diplomatic passport. If you get caught overseas engaged in intelligence activity it means you have diplomatic immunity and the equivalent of a get out of jail free card.

Non official cover or NOC also is covert but is more sensitive (and dangerous). A NOC does not work for the U.S. Government. A NOC does not have an official or diplomatic passport. A NOC works for a business or organization with no tie to the U.S. Government. If you are caught overseas while conducting espionage activities as a NOC you are screwed. You do not get a jail out of free card. You remain in jail or may be executed.

Now I will write this in big block letters: VALERIE PLAME WAS STILL UNDER NON OFFICIAL COVER WHEN NOVAK PUBLISHED HER NAME. Valerie and I started our career together and both of us were given official cover. But Valerie later took the additional and more dangerous risk of going under Non Official Cover. She became a NOC and, thanks to the Corn/Isikoff book Hubris, we now know she was helping hunt down Saddam's weapons of mass destruction.
...


You can bring up Sandy Berger all you want. The fact that you bring up someone who pled guilty shows that your stable of, "LOOK! Distraction over here," horses is pretty empty.


MedfordTim:
Thanks for the link. I hadn't read that particular post but had read some rebuttals of the Toensing hit piece.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:02 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:

I'd like to get the perspective from any lawyers out there: is it ever a good thing when the person on trial doesn't give evidence in their own defense?




I remember hearing during the OJ trial: defense attorneys are scared to death of putting the defendant on the stand. Officially, if the defendant is under oath, he has to tell the truth. Catch him in a lie and he's up for perjury. Also messes up the Fifth Amendment self-incrimination thing: defendant is answering questions, attorney asks, " Did you do it?" , defendant says, too late, " fifth amendment." Everybody figures he's guilty.

Too many chances for a defendant to screw up.

A prediction: not guilty by reason of insanity...
;<)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:43 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Just what I've read but it makes sense to me - if Libby goes free, end of story. If Libby is convicted he'll be pardoned before anyone can 'flip' him to provide testimony on Cheney. Sadly, also end of story.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:46 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


BTW, Rap,

That whole thing about there being no crime, no case and no story is now the big item in right-wingnut newsland. I read it myself in TownHall.

You keep sayin' you're not a talking-pointy-head, but everything that ends up here comes straight from there.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:28 AM

MEDFORDTIM


Funny, huh, Rue?

They sure thought it was a crime at the end of Whitewater when it was about a B.J. - I guess THAT kind of perjury and justice obstruction is more important than using reporters to trash a political enemy by outing his wife. Where are our priorities?


Soupcatcher: Happy to do so. Too bad Freepers never click provided links...

Anyway, that's what I think...

MT

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 1:37 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by MedfordTim:
They sure thought it was a crime at the end of Whitewater when it was about a B.J. - I guess THAT kind of perjury and justice obstruction is more important than using reporters to trash a political enemy by outing his wife. Where are our priorities?

I bet you even have sex, you're disgustingly immoral!



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:37 PM

RAZZA


Soupcatcher:

I, like most americans, haven't been keeping tabs on the trial, but I thought Richard Armitage was the actual source of the leak. At least according to himself and Robert Novak he was the source:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14533384/site/newsweek/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/13/AR2006
091301572.html


So why are they still focused on Libby? If he deliberately mislead the authorities, then let's throw the book at him, but if it was just a misrecollection why are we wasting millions of taxpayer dollars on the wrong guy?

-----------------
"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie

"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 2:46 PM

MEDFORDTIM


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:

I bet you even have sex, you're disgustingly immoral!



You betcha! 3, 4 times a day - sometimes that's ALL I do! Why, just the other day, I was....

...waitaminnet....

Are you talking about WITH someone?

Oh.

In that case, the closest I've, uh, come in many a year was just today. A bright Orange envelope in my mailbox offered two free years of "Wood" magazine. (I wish I was joking...)Turns out it's for people who build things!

Somewhere in the last five years or so, I got philosophical about the whole thing and went with the Groucho approach: "I don't want to belong to a club that will accept me as a member!" I mean, really, if she has such horrible taste, why would I want to be with her? The only exception would be, obviously, a Helen Keller situation...

Geez...I'm not even sure I remember...is it "Tab A goes into slot B" or will that get me slapped?



Anyway, that's what I think...

MT

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:09 PM

MEDFORDTIM


Quote:

Originally posted by Razza:

So why are they still focused on Libby? If he deliberately mislead the authorities, then let's throw the book at him, but if it was just a misrecollection why are we wasting millions of taxpayer dollars on the wrong guy?



They did throw the book at him and it is because he deliberately misled authorities. Thus charges of perjury and obstruction of justice.

The biggest misconception out there is that this is the 'endgame.' Fitzgerald hasn't ruled out further prosecution and it's entirely likely that more is to follow. Karl Rove should be sweating bullets with the revalation that he was given a copy of Novak's column three days before it was published, outing Valerie Wilson.

And that is the rub - As much as Right Wing World likes to tell each other that she wasn't in a Classified position, that is simply not true. The super-sticky point is that Cheney was given the power early on (he has been given more power than any previous V.P.) to declassify things on his word alone, rather than following the traditional steps in declassification of material (or people).

The argument is that Cheney "declassified" Valerie Wilson by authorizing Libby to leak the stuff to reporters. If you're going to try to wrap your head around that logic, I advise having plenty of pretzels around...


Anyway, that's what I think...

MT

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:33 PM

RAZZA


Medfortim:

Okay, if Libby perjured himself and mislead the authorities, send him to jail!

I'm still confused though, why hasn't Richard Armitage been hauled before a grand jury and taken to task for "outing" Valerie Plame? If he is the self proclaimed leak and Novak says he's the one he got the information from, why hasn't he been prosecuted? Why is Fitzgerald only focusing on Libby? Let's not forget, Fitzgerald's job was to track down and prosecute the person that "outed" Plame, why isn't he doing it? He would have a great deal more credibility and could say he isn't on a witch hunt if he was actually focused on the witch who did the deed, Armitage! Putting his priority on Libby for lesser crime committed as a result of his investigation rather than on the actual person who committed the crime he was mandated to prosecute seems like a huge waste of time and money to me.

Wow, what a run on sentence! Sorry :)

-----------------
"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie

"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:39 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


"why hasn't Richard Armitage been hauled before a grand jury"

I haven't looked this up but what what I heard (which makes sense if true) is that it has to be 'intentional' to be prosecutable. Perhaps someone who knows about this could post.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 3:50 PM

RAZZA


Rue:

You are absolutely right! If you take a look at the amicus brief filed on behalf of Judith Miller by numerous news services. There is a great deal of question as to whether any crime was committed by Armitage, Libby, or anyone in this case. Here is the link for the brief and the relevant passages are on page 28.

http://www.bakerlaw.com/PublicDocs%5CDoc_136facfc2be64a3dbe8c6cb4b1141
179.PDF


-----------------
"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie

"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 8:13 PM

MEDFORDTIM


Quote:

Originally posted by Razza:
Medfortim:

Okay, if Libby perjured himself and mislead the authorities, send him to jail!



Hey, I'm with ya, but...could we wait until the jury comes back? If you're talking about the amount of time this has dragged on, when everyone knows damn well that if he'd been caught with an ounce of pot he'd already be behind bars, I know what you mean - but Fed cases have a tendency to do this - and the Defense has been doing whatever they could to put it off.

Re: your other post about "intent."

You have to remember that Fitzy is going up against the most secretive bunch of crooks who have ever been in power and they're doing the best they can to "help" him without actually helping him.

Something to consider while you're trying to sort this all out...Don't you wish YOU could put up a defense that because you were just babbling away, giving out Confidential, Secret info, it's not a crime because you didn't "intend" those consequences? "Why, yes, your honor, I DID rob the bank, but I only intended to make a slight withdrawal." Think that would fly for one of us "normies?" We already know that the VP can get away with shooting people in the face with utterly NO consequences, why should they fear a little spat over giving out state secrets?

As to "why perjury when there was no underlying 'crime'?" Doesn't matter. If an investigator is searching for a lost dog and someone lies to him under oath - even if he had nothing whatsoever to do with the dog's disappearance, he has committed a new offense. For that, he is prosecutable. Same thing here.

What I wish Fitzy would hit the whole damn administration with is a RICO charge, if for no other reason than payback for all the OTHER people who have been snared under RICO who never should have been charged with it.

It is completely obvious that at the very least, Cheney and Libby conspired to get the info our to reporters for nefarious purposes (abuse of power) and that is ALL it takes to be prosecutable under RICO. Hell, the Feds busted a small-time pot selling ring of a Granny and two of her grandsons with RICO, surely THIS would qualify.

It really IS complicated, and the Media and the Right Wing Noise Machine have done their best to obfuscate the issue whenever possible. It's no wonder people are confused.

As you can tell, I have no problem with run-ons


Anyway, that's what I think...

MT

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:44 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by MedfordTim:
That would be nice, but I think it'll be more like "Presidential pardon time" before he can be flipped to testify against Cheney.


Doesn't really matter, though. There was some speculation I read yesterday at FDL that made a lot of sense, that even if Scooter is pardoned he is tainted as a witness for Cheney. If he is convicted, whether or not he flips he will always have been found guilty of perjury (even if pardoned), and so he couldn't help much in Cheney's defense. "I'd like to remind the jury that everything you just heard was from someone convicted of perjury." And, since Scooter is the biggest firewall protecting Cheney, that raises some interesting possibilities. One of the lawyer-type commenters likened the Libby trial to clearing brush. Libby is the scrub that is getting in the way of the work you really want to do.
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
I remember hearing during the OJ trial: defense attorneys are scared to death of putting the defendant on the stand. Officially, if the defendant is under oath, he has to tell the truth. Catch him in a lie and he's up for perjury. Also messes up the Fifth Amendment self-incrimination thing: defendant is answering questions, attorney asks, " Did you do it?" , defendant says, too late, " fifth amendment." Everybody figures he's guilty.

Too many chances for a defendant to screw up.


Okay. I get that. But if I was on a jury and the defense didn't put the defendant on the stand I would think one of two things: either they think the prosecution didn't make the case or they know the defendant is guilty. Now that SHOULDN'T factor into my decision making. But I couldn't guarantee that it wouldn't, especially if the prosecution did a credible job.
Quote:

Originally posted by Razza:
I, like most americans, haven't been keeping tabs on the trial, but I thought Richard Armitage was the actual source of the leak. At least according to himself and Robert Novak he was the source:

...

So why are they still focused on Libby? If he deliberately mislead the authorities, then let's throw the book at him, but if it was just a misrecollection why are we wasting millions of taxpayer dollars on the wrong guy?


Hey Razza!

There were at least three leakers: Rove, Libby and Armitage. And it wasn't just Novak that was leaked to. There were at least six reporters who were given this information. Of the three leakers, Armitage met with the investigators without an attorney and did everything in his power to help the investigation. Libby's testimony, when compared to the testimony of others, was false and designed to keep the investigation from proceeding. That's why he is being charged. The US attorneys can't complete the investigation while he is obscuring the truth.

It looks like Fitzgerald has zeroed in on Cheney as the source of Valerie Plame's outing. Marcy Wheeler, in her book Anatomy of Deceit, has an excellently sourced timeline. Cheney started gathering information for a pushback against Joe Wilson before he even wrote his op-ed. For two months, Cheney had been laying the groundwork for an attack if Wilson went public with his claims.

If Libby is found not guilty, the investigation probably stops here. If Libby is found guilty of at least some counts, then the investigation continues. I, personally, would love to see Cheney on the witness stand. Although I think that they better not make him take an oath on the Good Book. One of the two might burst into flames .

* edited to combine two posts.

* edited one more time to add: I don't know about the rest of you, but all of a sudden notification started working for me again! It's been about two years since I got an e-mail notification that someone had responded to a post of mine. I hadn't realized how much of a difference it makes. I can actually carry on a conversation! I have a sneaking suspicion, based on a recent change in spam-filtering protocols going on at my .edu, that the problem wasn't on the FFFn side of things .

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:11 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Please note that Feith, Scooter and Franklin have all been in trouble before for passing classified info to "the country that shall not be named" previously - which should have resulted in the revokation of any clearances they did have.

Ergo, whoever the hell trusted Scooter with ANY classified info *after* that is criminally negligent, thus whomever gave it to him, unless they can plead ignorance should also be charged.

That whole little collective of goons, formerly of scoop jacksons cadre are untrustyworthy cretins.

While buried in the current crapstorm, Scooter has a history of being a naughty little bastich, so it's unlikely they'd go light on him without the threat of a pardon being issued.

Dig into THAT mess, and you'll know why I hate em so.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, February 21, 2007 10:22 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Please note that Feith, Scooter and Franklin have all been in trouble before for passing classified info to "the country that shall not be named" previously - which should have resulted in the revokation of any clearances they did have.

Ergo, whoever the hell trusted Scooter with ANY classified info *after* that is criminally negligent, thus whomever gave it to him, unless they can plead ignorance should also be charged.


Yeah, I've never understood the double-standard theory of foreign policy.

I'll slide right by the naming-names part of things and just move on to: it seems like the ONLY thing Cheney learned from Watergate was, "grease the reporters." That, or the AC/DC defense, "I've got big balls," and just say whatever you feel like, understanding that at least twenty percent of the population will reflexively repeat Republican party talking points verbatim.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, February 22, 2007 2:30 AM

MEDFORDTIM


SoupCatcher wrote: Doesn't really matter, though.

Truer words were never spoken.

The thought that nags at me is that Cheney will never be on any stand. Bush can pardon him pre-emptively. I would expect Cheney to step down first (if charged, of course) freeing the VP slot up for whoever the Repubs want to run for Pres.



Anyway, that's what I think...

MT

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, February 22, 2007 3:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by rue:
BTW, Rap,

That whole thing about there being no crime, no case and no story is now the big item in right-wingnut newsland. I read it myself in TownHall.

You keep sayin' you're not a talking-pointy-head, but everything that ends up here comes straight from there.



So they agree w/ me on some issues. Big deal. They're using the same clear headed logic that I am using. Should make you feel good that not everyone is a Left wing zealot out there in the media.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, February 22, 2007 11:43 AM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by Razza:
So why are they still focused on Libby? If he deliberately mislead the authorities, then let's throw the book at him, but if it was just a misrecollection why are we wasting millions of taxpayer dollars on the wrong guy?


I wanted to focus in on that one point, "if it was just a misrecollection." The memory defense, in other words. One of the side products of the trial was that we had numerous people testify that Libby talked with them about Valerie Wilson - as part of the brief he was building against Joe Wilson. And defense did nothing except to say that Libby didn't remember those conversations. I'll get to the actual numbers in a second. But then we have Libby remembering two conversations (with Russert and Cooper) that both of them say never happened. So it's a selective memory defense.

Sidney Blumenthal has an excellent piece in Salon (you may have to click on an ad for a day pass) about the closing arguments for both sides. Here are some selections from the prosecution on stuff that, for the most part, defense didn't even try to impeach:
Quote:

from http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2007/02/22/libby_trial/print.h
tml

...
{this is from Zeidenberg's closing arguments}
...
Zeidenberg ran through the narrative of the loyal Libby, doing the bidding of his principal, Vice President Dick Cheney, who was angered at Wilson's public revelations concerning the falsehoods about the justification for the invasion of Iraq, a CIA mission set in motion by Cheney's own inquiries, which particularly enraged him. Cheney tasked Libby to learn about Wilson's wife, the CIA operative, so that Wilson's trip to Niger could be traced to her and not to Cheney's initial request to dig up information about Saddam Hussein's seeking yellowcake uranium for nuclear weapons.

Libby tapped government official after official, Marc Grossman at the State Department and Robert Grenier at the CIA, from whom he demanded information on Plame. The officials each testified at the trial, vividly recalling his unusual questioning; but Libby remembered nothing about them in his grand jury testimony. Nor did Libby remember his conversations about Plame with Cheney's communications aide, Cathie Martin, or his CIA briefer, Craig Schmall, who also remembered the conversations well. Nor did Libby remember his conversations with Judith Miller, the New York Times correspondent, to whom he leaked Plame's name and an exclusive story about the contents of the National Intelligence Estimate on Iraq. President Bush had declassified the NIE at the insistence of Cheney; the only other person aware of the declassification was Libby -- not then National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice or her deputy, Stephen Hadley. But Libby did not remember it. Libby did not remember his conversation with White House press secretary Ari Fleischer, which was "hush-hush" and "on the Q.T.," he said, divulging Plame's identity to him. Nor did he remember his conversation with David Addington, Cheney's counsel, Libby's Libby, telling Addington to keep his voice down behind a closed door as Libby asked him about Wilson's spouse sending him on his mission.

But Libby remembered conversations with Tim Russert, the host of NBC's "Meet the Press," and Matthew Cooper, former correspondent for Time magazine. Zeidenberg played tape recordings of Libby's grand jury testimony in which Libby recalls precisely all the words that Russert and Cooper say were never uttered. On the tapes, Libby blames the reporters. "All I had was information coming from reporters ... all I had was reporters telling us that ... I didn't know he had a wife ... I told a couple of reporters what reporters told us."
...

{this is from Fitzgerald's rebuttal to defense's closing arguments}
...
"It's not he said, she said," Fitzgerald declared. On the courtroom screen appeared the eight people with whom Libby had discussed Plame nine times. "It's he said, he said, he said, she said, she said, she said, he said, he said. Is this the greatest coincidence in the world?"
...


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 6, 2007 7:14 AM

SOUPCATCHER


Guilty: 4
Not guilty: 1

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 6, 2007 7:47 AM

MAVOURNEEN


He was just found guilty.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17479718/


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 6, 2007 7:48 AM

ERIC


Quote:

Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Guilty: 4
Not guilty: 1



I wonder how long til the presidential pardon comes down...

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, March 6, 2007 9:29 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


President Kinda Sleazy Rice...

First Lady George DWI Bush...





"You can't stop the signal!"
-Mr Universe, Pirate TV

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
https://video.indymedia.org/en/2007/02/716.shtml
http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=8cd2bd0379340120e7a6ed00f2a53ee5
.1044556

www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv
www.piratenews.org


Does that seem right to you?
www.scifi.com/onair/

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
The Olive Branch (Or... a proposed Reboot)
Mon, November 25, 2024 01:52 - 5 posts
Oops! Clown Justin Trudeau accidently "Sieg Heils!" a Nazi inside Canadian parliament
Mon, November 25, 2024 01:24 - 4 posts
Stupid voters enable broken government
Mon, November 25, 2024 01:04 - 130 posts
Russia Invades Ukraine. Again
Mon, November 25, 2024 00:09 - 7499 posts
The predictions thread
Mon, November 25, 2024 00:02 - 1190 posts
Netanyahu to Putin: Iran must withdraw from Syria or Israel will ‘defend itself’
Sun, November 24, 2024 23:56 - 16 posts
Putin's Russia
Sun, November 24, 2024 23:51 - 69 posts
Musk Announces Plan To Buy MSNBC And Turn It Into A News Network
Sun, November 24, 2024 23:39 - 2 posts
In the garden, and RAIN!!! (2)
Sun, November 24, 2024 23:35 - 4763 posts
Punishing Russia With Sanctions
Sun, November 24, 2024 18:05 - 565 posts
human actions, global climate change, global human solutions
Sun, November 24, 2024 18:01 - 953 posts
Elections; 2024
Sun, November 24, 2024 16:24 - 4799 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL