Quote:

---

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Although I disagree with the prayer in school statement, he is probably right.

When I see that Obi Wan kenobi's crappy ass costume robe went for $104,000.00 at auction my first response is - that would have fed a lot of hungry children, or made medicine available to african children fighting aids.

I am appalled at the state of the world as a whole, and I am not even a perfect being.

Americans have enough disposible income to erradicate poverty in the US. But it is more important to drive Mercedes that you can put your christian symbols on!

*FMF will now get off her soapbox*


----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre, Owner of a too big Turnippy smelling coat with MR scratched in the neck (thanks FollowMal!)

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
He didn't say he 'speaks to Jesus'. That's why there's no 'speaks to Jesus' thread.

As to private time to pray, I'd like to think it means bowing towards Mecca and praying, or lighting incense and praying to your ancestors, meditating, or whatever your religion prescribes. It doesn't means Christian prayer.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by rue:
So you concede there should be no "Edwards speaks to Jesus" thread? Good. At least we're getting somewhere.

BTW you may have noticed he doesn't claim to be speaking 'for' Jesus either. What he did was offer his opinion on what he thinks Jesus meant. Hence his words "I think ..."

---

Quote:

---

Vote for me, John Edwards - It's what Jesus would do. He told me so.-Geezer

---

Quote:

---

Does Edwards think he speaks TO Jesus or FOR Jesus. And which is worse ? Seems to me, it's the latter w/ Edwards, and I think that's much worse.-Auraptor

---

Quote:

---

The guy made mega-millions blackmailing, shaking down, and suing every company & person that he encountered who had an insurance policy ( he's one of the main reasons that healthcare system in America is broken )...so much that he got himself that 97-room mansion compound that he needed so desperately ( wonder how much of HIS wealth is given to charity )...I guess that's where he came up with his first catchy, if not retarded slogan...the 2 Americas..ya know that one....there's one America for Edwards...mansions, estates, limos, free Brylcreme, etc etc.- ShinyEd

---

Quote:

---

America is THE MOST GENEROUS nation on the planet....Americans donate more money to charity than ALL THE OTHER NATIONS on Earth combined!- ShinyEd

---

Quote:

---

Edwards won a $7 million verdict for the parents of a 16-year-old who'd killed himself the day after being dismissed from a psychiatric hospital, an incredibly difficult case to win, Dayton says, because in North Carolina the plaintiff must prove that the entire burden of negligence lies with the defendant. In 1997, Edwards successfully sued a doctor for $23 million on behalf of the parents of a baby severely brain damaged by oxygen deprivation during labor.

The defining case in Edwards' legal career wrapped up that same year. In 1993, a five-year-old girl named Valerie Lakey had been playing in a Wake County, N.C., wading pool when she became caught in an uncovered drain so forcefully that the suction pulled out most of her intestines. She survived but for the rest of her life will need to be hooked up to feeding tubes for 12 hours each night. Edwards filed suit on the Lakeys' behalf against Sta-Rite Industries, the Wisconsin corporation that manufactured the drain....Before trial, he discovered that 12 other children had suffered similar injuries from Sta-Rite drains.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, Auraptor, since you seem so worried about Edwards speaking "for" Jesus, how do you feel about preachers? Just curious. More to the point, how do you feel about a candidate saying ...

"I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it"

---

Quote:

---

97-room mansion compound

---

Quote:

---

Pretty-boy chased down so many ambulances that at one point in the 1990's Nike actually considered dropping sponsors Carl Lewis & Michael Jordan, and having Edwards as their spokesmodel for their running shoes. Pretty-boy then used his insurance settlement millions and vile bloodsucking tort-lawyer

---

Quote:

---

both eminently more competent than John(how's my hair?)Edwards.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer- what Edwards did, I think, was to express his moral stance (or express what he would like others to think are his moral underpinnings.) That's different than Bush believing that God is paving his path to power. Edwards' statement gave me more of an idea of his moral compass, assuming that he's being honest. Bush's statement was that of a man bent on accruing power, but with out any insight as to what he would do with that power.

---

Quote:

---

But to get back to the original topic of the thread- Are you religious? Are you Christian? How do YOU think Americans stack up to the message of Jesus?

---

Quote:

---

Edwards could have expressed his moral stance perfectly well without channeling Jesus, just as Bush could have said he thought he was the best man for the job without bringing in his visions of a Holy highway to the White House. They're both playing to the Christian voters of one stripe or another.

---

Quote:

---

God is the perfect endorsement. He doesn't ask for political favors, fully supports your platform, and never goes on the Sunday talk shows to switch allegence to another candidate.

---

Quote:

---

I'm an agnostic bordering on athiesm. I got no problem with people's religion as long as they don't try to force it on me.

---

Quote:

---

Poor Jesus. His "message" has been so massaged, re-interpreted, revised, edited, co-opted and generally pureed that I'm not sure he'd want to claim it any more. People on every side of any issue are absolutely sure that they have the official O.K. from Christ for whatever they want. What's your version of "the message of Jesus" that you want me to opine on?

---

Quote:

---

Geezer, Auraptor, since you seem so worried about Edwards speaking "for" Jesus, how do you feel about preachers? Just curious. More to the point, how do you feel about a candidate saying ..."I feel like God wants me to run for President. I can't explain it, but I sense my country is going to need me. Something is going to happen... I know it won't be easy on me or my family, but God wants me to do it"

---

Quote:

---

In 1985, a 31-year-old North Carolina lawyer named John Edwards stood before a jury and channeled the words of an unborn baby girl.

Referring to an hour-by-hour record of a fetal heartbeat monitor, Mr. Edwards told the jury: ''She said at 3, 'I'm fine.' She said at 4, 'I'm having a little trouble, but I'm doing O.K.' Five, she said, 'I'm having problems.' At 5:30, she said, 'I need out.' ''

But the obstetrician, he argued in an artful blend of science and passion, failed to heed the call. By waiting 90 more minutes to perform a breech delivery, rather than immediately performing a Caesarean section, Mr. Edwards said, the doctor permanently damaged the girl's brain.

''She speaks to you through me,'' the lawyer went on in his closing argument. ''And I have to tell you right now -- I didn't plan to talk about this -- right now I feel her. I feel her presence. She's inside me, and she's talking to you.''

---

Quote:

---

Thrombocytopenic infants who were delivered vaginally had the highest incidence of intraventricular hemorrhage (63.4% vs 37.5% for cesarean section, P = .005). Vaginal delivery and platelets < 50x109/L on day 1 were independent risk factors for intraventricular hemorrhage ... Extra-axial hemorrhages, intraventricular hemorrhage, acute parenchymal hemorrhage and neuronal migrational disorder occurred with varying frequency

---

Quote:

---

The affected infant may have intracranial hemorrhage, and the disorder is associated with a relatively high mortality rate.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
So Auraptor, How do you feel about a politician saying that God is behind his run for the Presidency?

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, you know that trial law is part theater, which is what I see in Edwards' performance. And the word "channeling" is hyperbole used to "punch up" the story intro. I seriously doubt that Edwards believes in voices from beyond and I don't think you believe that either. And since I'm SURE you're not seriously saying that Edwards is an occult practioner, your point would be.....?

---

Quote:

---

U.N. Undersecretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs Jan Egeland suggested that the United States and other Western nations were being "stingy" with relief funds, saying there would be more available if taxes were raised.

---

Quote:

---

Politics, especially the fund raising part, is at least as much theater as trial law. Putting words in either Jesus' mouth or a dead child's mouth to convince someone you're in the right seems manipulative and somewhat dishonest to me, and Mr. Edwards seems to have used it more than once.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by SignyM:
6Six- A few self-contradictions on your post. You seem so insistenet that America be recognized as THE MOST GENEROUS nation on the planet .... Americans donate more money to charity than ALL THE OTHER NATIONS on Earth combined. And yet, giving to charity is (to you) a "dirty and lazy thing". So what you've just said is that Americans are the dirtiest and laziest people in the world.

FINALLY! YOUR TRUE OPINION OF AMERICANS COMES THRU!

And if we're so generous, the MOST generous in the world in fact (!) and so intent on income redistribution, why do we have so many of our own poor and destitute... A LOT of them, who drastically skew any numbers?

You know, when I put some of your ideas next to other ideas of yours they go poof!. So OOC what ARE you trying to say?

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Drostie:
Random points:

- US citizens do not pay much in taxes, and they are nothing like a communism.

- Other countries who pay more in taxes tend to have a much higher standard of living.

- The U.S. does not pay much in aid in relative terms -- taking the E.U. as if it were one country, the US and the EU have roughly the same GDP. But the EU gives more than the US on just about every indicator that I know of. (It was claimed that the EU doesn't do private charity, but that's just false.)

- Communism is demonized because Russia did it immorally. If you ever bother to read Marx's Das Kapital, you'll notice that it's much more of a passive consequence of people interacting with capitalism. Marx's big mistake was that he thought a revolution was necessary; but the socialist progress in both the US and the EU has gone remarkably naturally -- and both have done incredibly well. By contrast, what Russia called communism was much more a beast of capitalism than anybody could have anticipated.

---

Quote:

---

Originally posted by Drostie:
*shrug* All of the points I mentioned are wholly factual, and can be Googled.

I'm more intimately familiar with the details, because I'm a dual citizen of the US and NL, and consequently I've seen both first-hand. The improvements tend to be implicit -- things you take for granted. For example, in the US, there are potholes; in the NL, there aren't. In the US, you *sometimes* can catch a Greyhound to the next city; in the NL, the trains run every couple of minutes to any city you'd like.

But, of course, you may also look up actual standards-of-living indices between the EU and the US. The only one that the US consistently beats the EU on is GDP per capita -- and since most of the US wealth is concentrated in precious few hands, that means that your Bill Gateses and Waltons are pulling up the mean, leaving the average citizen in the dust.

---