Don Imus - Another One Bites The Dust by ShinyEd

Yeah, that comment wasn't directed at you.

That was how I deal with comments face to face as they occur.

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Friday, April 13, 2007 5:05 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Re: how to fix prejudice. Shel Silverstein has the answer!

NO DIFFERENCE

Small as a peanut,
Big as a giant,
We're all the same size
When we turn off the light.

Rich as a sultan,
Poor as a mite,
We're all worth the same
When we turn off the light.

Red, black or orange,
Yellow or white,
We all look the same
When we turn off the light.

So maybe the way
To make everything right
Is for God to just reach out
And turn off the light!

You may now return to your regularly scheduled debate/arguments/whatever.

---

"If I were a Nazi, someone would defend my constitutional right to hate Jews. If I were a Klansman, someone would defend my rights to hate blacks. It's a funny place, this world. Hate has rights. Love has none." - Jeff, Murphy's Boy

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Friday, April 13, 2007 5:37 PM

I just read an article by a black man named Leonard Pitts, in a highly touted Liberal Milwaukee newspaper called the Journal Sentinel. This article was actually pulled from the Miami Herald where it was printed a day earlier. I thought it might make some good reading from those saying that we're only the Rightest white males defending their spot at the top of the dung heap.

http://www.miamiherald.com/418/story/72285.html

Notable quotes from this article:

"Obviously, someone has put crack in the nation's drinking water."

"...one hopes we'll see this same indignation next time some idiot black rapper (paging Snoop Dogg) refers to black women in terms this raw or worse. Indeed, it's doubtful Imus would have even known the word ''ho'' -- black slang for ''whore'' -- had idiot black rappers not spent the last 20 years popularizing it."

Sounds remarkably like my quote yesterday:

"Right after they ban and censor all of the rap artists out there first. I'm sure "nappy headed ho" wasn't even a part of Imus's vocabulary before Yo! MTV Raps. The very earliest Imus picked that up would have been from Easy E or Ice Cube WAAAAAY back in the day. If you don't like it, don't listen to him."

Mr. Pitts then went on to say:

"What did Imus do last week that he has not done repeatedly? We're talking about a man who has built a career on verbal diarrhea."

This just in.... "Rutgers Team: We Accept Imus's Apology."

http://www.miamiherald.com/889/story/72746.html

"The team's goal was never to get Imus fired, Stringer said. "It's sad for anyone to lose their job," she said."

What's that? Obama has something to say about it too? Last time I checked he was a left wing half African American who's doing a damn good job of positioning himself for a seat on the throne.

http://www.miamiherald.com/692/story/73192.html

"Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on Friday questioned the way some rappers talk about women in songs, saying the lyrics are similar to the derogatory language used by embattled radio host Don Imus.

They are "degrading their sisters. That doesn't inspire me," Obama said of some hip-hop artists when a man in a crowd of about 1,000 questioned him. The Illinois senator was responding to a question of what inspired him, and said God and civil rights activists.

This last article doesn't suprise me though. In fact, I think I now know the reason why Imus was tagged so harshly now and never before. The Demons have unofficially dropped Hillary now. This will be the springboard they will use to propell Obama to the president's seat. I hope he can get our boys and girls out of the Middle East.

The Demons will have all three seats now. No more room for bitching in 2008. Time for the Demons to put up or shut the fuck up.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, April 13, 2007 9:04 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Causal,

"Sorry your life has been so tough. Must be all my fault. When I skipped meals and dug for gas money between couch cushions I must really have been oppressing you."

"And according to a lot that I've been seeing in this thread, that means that I'm rich and run the whole show ..."
----------------------------

If I missed your point then you missed mine. Which I've tried to make twice already so this will be three times now.

DOES IT EFFING MATTER IF YOU GET CALLED NAMES BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE ABOLUTELY NO POWER OVER YOU? (Whatever those names might be btw. I personally don't know of any names in common use for white males as bad as nigger or cunt - do you ?) What MATTERS is that rich people run the economy to their benefit - not yours or mine. Arguing about who gets a better position on the dung heap still means it's on the dung heap.

This doesn't make you the bad guy. And it doesn't mean you've been stereotyped. But focusing on these stupid petty quibbles does mean you're short-sighted and easily used to maintain that system. And that's not a matter of stereotyping, it's something you've amply demonstrated.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 1:08 AM

Just thought that I would also point out to anybody who didn't know that I was also supportive of Bill Mahar's recent controversial statement about the VP as well. If you people want to live in a country where the Government gets to decide what can and cannot be played on air, I hear the weather in Turkey is wonderful this time a year.

EDIT: Don't tell me this was a not a government decision and it was strictly business. We all know that's bullshit and in any other thread people would be complaining about how the government and big business are in bed togehter when it suits whatever point they're trying to make. Busniess doesn't get too much bigger than CBS or MSNBC.

And Rue.... words are just words. I don't think we should focus so much energy on crybabies and weaklings. It's a tough world. I was abused mentally and emotionally at home growing up and I was picked on every day at school growing up until I got a fresh start at a new High School and turned things around for myself. Nobody was there protecting me when I went home and wondered why no girls liked me and why the only friends I had were other outcasts.

I just find it ironic how the scientist types who are in staunch support of Darwinism usually are the ones who are the quickest to promote laws and protocol which directly contradict survival of the fittest.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 4:57 AM

CAUSAL

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
What MATTERS is that rich people run the economy to their benefit - not yours or mine. Arguing about who gets a better position on the dung heap still means it's on the dung heap.

OK, so I can see that you and I have been talking past each other in somewhat the same way as SoupCatcher and I had been. I do understand the point you make above. I think you're right: certain people run the society for their benefit and not for yours or mine. I'm not exactly arguing about who should get a better position on your "dung heap" and I think it's a little simplistic to just say that the people in charge are white males, but you're right about it being run for the benefits of the already-haves.

Quote:
This doesn't make you the bad guy. And it doesn't mean you've been stereotyped. But focusing on these stupid petty quibbles does mean you're short-sighted and easily used to maintain that system. And that's not a matter of stereotyping, it's something you've amply demonstrated.

Well, with all due respect, what I've been arguing about is the moral status of stereotyping and prejudice. I do think that it's too simplistic to blame "white males" because I've certainly known a whole lot of poor, powerless ones. It can't just be white-males-as-such. And that is what got me started on the whole issue of the moral status of stereotyping. It certainly seems, though, that the concensus is in: it's OK to stereotype and prejudge a group of people if a sufficient number of those people are in positions of power (not that morality rests on the will of the majority, of course). So I guess my question has been answered.

________________________________________________________________________
- Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
- Captain, FFF.net Grammar Police

Vote for Firefly! http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 6:24 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Soup, I think you've fallen into the trap of reverse prejudice. Whe you said I don't care whether or not you feel guilty. I don't care whether or not you're working to lessen racism and sexism. I just want people to acknowledge where things are skewed in their favor and not complain that it's unfair that that skewing is being lessened. you are blaming somebody for what they ARE, not for what they'ev DONE. I KNOW that prejudice exists. I've seen it in studies, I've experienced it myself as a member of a stereotyped group. There are a number of ways that society is sliced and diced just so we get to fight over being 1/4" higher from the bottom of the barrel. But the answer is not to blame the people who are in the barrel with us, but to figure out why we're all in the barrel in the first place. The scarcity of decent jobs and of respect is an artificial scarcity. Focus on THAT. It doesn't have to be a zero-sum game, and meeting prejudice with prejudice just feeds into the system which keeps us distracted and apart.

I've thought about Imus, and how it relates to me, Bill Maher, Hannity, and society in general. People like Imus Hannity, and Maher are TROLLS. They specialize in name-calling, in getting people riled up and spouting what (in the internet world) would be called "flamebait". Some people defend their broadcasts by saying that (1) it's free speech and (2) that it fosters "communication".

Well, it's definitely free speech but unless you define equal-opportunity namecalling as "communication" it doesn't really foster communication. Do we really want the airwaves filled with "kike!" "nazi!" "terrorist!" "nigger!" "macho shithead!" "faggot!" and "cunt!"?.

BTW- Youre' right Rue, I can't think of a name for a white hetero male that packs as much punch as "faggot" or "nigger". If anyone know of one please let ME know!

Internet solutions to trolling don't work on the airwaves because there's no direct feedback (or lack of). The airwaves are common property and are leased by the FCC supposedly in the interest of the "public good". But people like Imus of ANY race or political stripe will usually find a large-enough audience to fill their pockets with jingle. So the only solution that I can think of is that any "nonfree" communication which costs money to air must be treated like a commercial: there must be an element of "truth in advertising". Imus should have to PROVE that the Rutgers team looks like "nappy-headed hos" or they get to sue him for defamation. If you hold everyone to that standard it would save a lot of gratuitous bullshit-slinging.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 6:47 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
It doesn't have to be a zero-sum game, and meeting prejudice with prejudice just feeds into the system which keeps us distracted and apart.

I believe posters are getting this but are having a hard time acknowledging it.

Posting to stir stuff up.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 6:49 AM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by Causal:
I'm just upset that people still think that I'm making excuses for Imus, or that "other people should be dealt with first."

One of the reasons I've largely walked away from the discussions on this board is the way people take all manner of comments personally--get up in arms, call people names and generally freak out about stuff that ultimately has nothing to do with them. Kinda like our government's foreign policy lately.

Causal, I wasn't talking about you, so why'd you assume I was talking about you? If the shoe doesn't fit, don't wear it!

I was refering to the various articles and blogs folk have posted in this thread which actually did claim that there were a whole line of miscreants ahead of Imus that should get the axe for being racist and sexist. I didn't name names, and I'm not naming names now, because, frankly, I don't want to have to read the whole dang thread again.

Why would you assume I was talking about you when I refer to something you never said and don't mention you?

RWED, we need to calm the

down and listen to each other.

And 6ix, yeah, whatever, man. Peace.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 6:54 AM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:

Fletch2: I posed the question earlier in a longer form: would you rather be denigrated or discriminated against? If someone who benefits from discrimination is complaining about denigration then I really don't have any sympathy for them.

A statement that makes you a hypocrite. You presume I benefit from discrimination and therefore you believe that gives you the right to denigrate me. How is that different from presuming someone that is black is inferior and believing that gives you the right to denigrate them?

Not only is that point of view morally lax it's also logically flawed. Being white is not the same as being a Mason, it is not a choice I made to gain unfair advantage, so in effect you are arguing that I have some form or "original sin" that I am guilty of a crime I haven't commited purely based on my genetic makeup. Talk about ethnic profiling.

Casual: I understand completely what you are saying and agree. I think most people here understand it and the only ones talking at cross purposes are the ones too stubborn to conceed your point. Personally I think if they did conceed it that would make their position stronger but hey....

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 6:57 AM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

BTW- Youre' right Rue, I can't think of a name for a white hetero male that packs as much punch as "faggot" or "nigger". If anyone know of one please let ME know!

.

Twat, pillock, goyt, wassock spring immediately to mind.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 7:04 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

BDN- Mebbe. I only read about halfway up the thread so I might have missed that trend.

Perhaps what Soup wants is recognition for the hurt that "his group" experiences at the hands of "whites". It's a little like blacks wanting an aoplogy for slavery. Since my family's presence in the USA doesn't go back any farther than about 1910, what am I supposed to apologize for? For being white? I can understand an institutional apology: from the State of Virginia, for example. But to make everyone feel guilty for something they didn't create or condone is bull. People and institutions need to be held accountable for what they did and continue to do and to make changes, not for what they are.

So Soup, let me ask you: since you're not black should you apologize for slavery? (In the ladder of racism, browns are better off than blacks.) Since you're male should you be more sensitive to or apologize for sexism? Since you're (prolly) hetero should you be responsible for homophobia? I guess by those standards, the only people who don't need to apologize for anything are poor, disabled, black, female infants.

Fletch- I think most of your terms are Britishisms. Twat in the American vernacular also means "cunt". Wassock and pillock mean "dolt"- not necessarilly a white dolt, altho that part is prolly assumed. Goyt is the closest derogatory word I can find. Maybe WASP? I dunno- it just doesn't seem to have the same... er... sting.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 7:55 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh my. It looks like all those names I tossed around killed the thread. I only used them as examples of how offensive name-calling can get. I won't do THAT again!

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:07 AM

HKCAVALIER

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
But to make everyone feel guilty for something they didn't create or condone is bull. People need to be held accountable for what they do, not for what they are.

Y'know, I haven't read every last word Soup has posted on this thread, so maybe I missed it, but it sure looks like this whole "guilt" thing is being shoe-horned into the discussion.

The big problem with guilt is that folk can attatch it to things it has no business getting mixed up in. A lot of people have what I'd call "free-floating guilt." Such people are susceptible to "guilt trips" and will even go so far as to perceive a "guilt trip" where there is none. This "free-floating guilt" is really shame, of course (the feeling that there is something fundamentally wrong with what we are--like being male, or being female, or having sexual feelings, or not having sexual feelings, or having the wrong sexual feelings, or being white or black or mixed).

Complicating the matter, guilt may accrue unconsciously in a person and then be triggered semi-consciously in them and lead to a lot of quasi-coherent grandstanding and denial. When a parent favors one child over another, for instance, the favored child may feel extremely guilty and not really know it until he or she is called to account for all the privilege he or she has been given over the years.

So, when a whole society or a culture--or the vast majority of cultures around the world for thousands of years--favor, say, boy children over girl children, this tends to build up a charge of considerable guilt or shame in men for being men. And we construct whole religions around the idea that men are nasty and bad and evil and need to be redeemed, for instance. Or we project all our shame and self-loathing on "the other" and conceive women as the root of all evil. Or, sometimes, we project all our shame and irrationality onto foreign cultures.

Thing is, when we do mannage to clear the guilt and shame away, privilege still exists and the most important thing to do with privilege is to not accept it. The moral thing to do when offered unearned privilege and power is to pass. When a system within which we find ourselves working offers us power over another fully functioning adult human being's life it is immoral to accept such power. That is to say, when we accept it, it plants guilt in our psyche and when we refuse to take on such power it nurtures our self-esteem--it makes us a better person.

O' course, people will want to legislate such moral facts, force people to do right, but that goes against the whole idea of being a moral person to begin with...

Carry on.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 8:22 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Interesting concepts.

I think people really do know and understand when they're the recipients of unearned privilege. Heck, I think some people feel guilty for earned privileges! I feel some guilt for living in a nice neighborhood with a reasonable school system. Having lived in dangerous neighborhoods, I feel badly for those who don't live as well as I. I feel guilty for picking the best produce out of the pile at the grocery store! I understand that "the system" is designed to create inequality and strife, and to the extend that I take advantage of that system then I AM guilty.

But the solution is not just changing individual behavior but also changing the rules. Because if you dig deep enough, the rules are backed by force- by the police (internally) and the military (externally). Once you touch the REAL power, force comes into play.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:01 AM

Fletch2: Nope. I assume that, if you had to choose which of the two you would experience, you would choose denigration over discrimination. That discrimination was worse than denigration. That there are groups who are daily benefitting from discrimination. That, for a member of that group, to complain about denigration bothers me a lot less than complaints from a member of a group who is discriminated against.

There is a difference between, "I really don't have any sympathy for them" (which were my words) and "believing that gives you the right to denigrate them" (your interpretation).

Just a general comment (not directed at you in particular, Fletch2), if you have a chance to read any literature on white privilege or male privilege I would recommend it. There's an easily accessible article by Peggy McIntosh that's floating around the internets, "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack."

My remarks in this thread will look different depending on whether or not you believe white privilege exists in the US (and male privilege, and class privilege, etc).

My overall goal in this thread has been to try to convince people, who had previously been unaware, of the existence of white privilege.

Oh, and after just reloading the page, *bows in front of* HKCavalier.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:13 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

And then, there is the otehr viable response to trolls:

Quote:
You know, I'm thinking that the best response to this whole thing would have been the entire Rutgers women's basketball team appearing at a press conference with all of them - black, white, asian, latino, whatever - wearing massive afro wigs, and saying, "Damn right we're all nappy-headed hos! Wanna make somethin' of it?"

Now THAT would have been sumpthin!

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:14 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

And THIS would have been a double!

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:27 AM

Would've made my day.

Going back to your earlier post, SignyM. The criticism of a focus solely on the goal of diminishing white privilege as ignoring class issues is definitely a concern. It's a problem to focus too narrowly on any one of the big four of inequities (class, race, gender and sexuality).

In terms of convincing people that there is a problem, it's definitely a lot easier to talk about class privilege since the group that is benefitting from the inequities on that axis is so ridiculously tiny compared to the overall population.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:43 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Class is one of those infamous "third rails". It's far easier to talk about race, gender, orientation, age, disability and whatever than it is to talk about class. You almsot NEVER see it in print. You almost NEVER hear about "those rich capitalists" (except when people are bowing down before Bill Gates) on the radio. The only major candidate that I know of who's making an issue is Edwards and he's catching a ration of shit for it.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:53 AM

I've been coming at it from the side of talking with people I interact with on a regular basis (where I have zero disagreement when I make the statement that the system is designed to favor the wealthy).

And you're absolutely right. In terms of official discourse we don't see these conversations on a national level (or even a local level, you have to go to small market publications before you can read something in print).

When those who benefit the most control mass communication it's not in their interest to discuss how they benefit.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 12:51 PM

HKCAVALIER

Hey Signy, thanks for your candid reply to my post. I can think of nothing so far-reaching in its destructiveness than the crisis in self-esteem around the world today. In the modern era, we individual humans have been feeling more and more irrelavant and impotent in the face of governments and collective force of all kinds. Terrorism is the ultimate political expression of low self-esteem.

9/11 was a tremendous blow, it turns out, to American optimism. Now, fear rules where generosity once held sway. I think if Clinton were president today and impeached for fooling around with Monica, he'd be found guilty, forced to resign in disgrace for the crime of being an imperfect human with imperfect desires. We've become a nation of tattle-tails and suck-ups, buck-passers and victims.

Without self-esteem, without the deep-seated knowing that we, each of us, can make a difference for the better in the world, depression and apathy settle in. Mere craven comfort becomes the highest good when no one thinks the highest good is attainable. Without individual self-esteem fueling the political process, our country has given up on democracy and become a consensual oligarchy. The "majority" that rules, rules by not caring, rules by letting whatever nasty bastard who wants power take it as long as he looks good and doesn't say anything too complicated.

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Heck, I think some people feel guilty for earned privileges! I feel some guilt for living in a nice neighborhood with a reasonable school system. Having lived in dangerous neighborhoods, I feel badly for those who don't live as well as I. I feel guilty for picking the best produce out of the pile at the grocery store! I understand that "the system" is designed to create inequality and strife, and to the extend that I take advantage of that system then I AM guilty.

Quite apart from the political sphere, there's so much of our lives which is simply beyond our power to change. Fate brings us good fortune and who are we to turn it down? You have a right to your good fortune, Signy; a right to be happy, even while others suffer.

You have to eat; moral perfection must take a back-seat to assuring your continued existence on the planet. You help nothing and no one if you die weak and before your time, out of misplaced altruistic self-sacrifice. If our compassion is to mean anything in this world, the first recipient must be ourselves.

Quote:
But the solution is not just changing individual behavior but also changing the rules. Because if you dig deep enough, the rules are backed by force- by the police (internally) and the military (externally). Once you touch the REAL power, force comes into play.

And I say: individual behavior is all there is, all there ever is. Governments exist because the individuals under them consent to be governed. If we don't start there, where reality lives, nothing we do matters.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 1:51 PM

JONGSSTRAW

There is no right or wrong; there's only the truth of the signal. The rest is up to you.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 3:01 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

As a example of the power of individual behavior: What if they held a war and no one showed up?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 3:50 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I am actually equivocal about a some of this.

For example, neither I nor anyone in MY family had anything to do with slavery. Like SignyM, my family only goes back so far in this country - though I'm not sure how far back for mine. I'm 1.5 generation American. And I have been at the receiving end of various forms of significant life-altering discrimination. OTOH I grew up 'Polack' but white and in suburbia with reasonable high schools. And since my name is not reconizable as Polish, to that extent I benefitted from a biased system.

So should I apologize for slavery or be held accountable for it? Should I recognize that I did and continue to benefit from a biased system?

And what is discrimination and who is responsible anyway?

Whenever there's a shortage, resources have to be divided up somehow. So people in power make up stories as to why some but not others. That group is lazy and shiftless. That other group doesn't get the value of human life anyway so why does it matter if a few more die. And then there's that third group who are dark-eyed, shifty, greedy and secretive. Discrimination is created for the benefit of some. And it's still an effective tool when used by those in power to maintain their position, and enforced by those too short-sighted to realize it works against them, too.

It needs to be addressed wherever it's found, but especially when praticed by the dominant who have the power to make it stick.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 4:00 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

As to Imus, I think what happened was completely expectable. He only got along as long as he did because he had a small, self-selected audience. When he got exposed before the wider world he got his well-deserved reception. The 'product' was a POV which people said they wouldn't buy. The broadcasters made an economic decison, not a political one.

Isn't that how capitalism is supposed to work?

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 4:06 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Causal,

Please point out where I said all white males are responsible for the world's problems. For some reason you seem to keep reading words that aren't there. Maybe if you have to go look for them specifically you'll realize you've been hallucinating.

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 4:31 PM

MARINA

Regarding the comment on institutionalized racism:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6556643.stm

During the filmed training session, an instructor tells the soldier: "You're in the Bronx, a black van pulls up in front of you and three African-Americans get out and start really insulting your mother... act!".

The soldier then fires his gun several times and shouts obscenities in English, as the instructor encourages him to curse even louder.

Don't make faces.

http://amaranton.wordpress.com

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 5:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Imus should have to PROVE that the Rutgers team looks like "nappy-headed hos" or they get to sue him for defamation. If you hold everyone to that standard it would save a lot of gratuitous bullshit-slinging.

SIGNY - You had me up until that point Signy. Other than that I think it was an excellent post. Maybe to Imus, these girls looked like nappy headed ho's. The airwaves need to leave room for objectivity and subjectivity. If you limit people to only be able to tell truths at all time, you risk having the government deciding what is truth and what is not and you will find yourself in a situation where Uncle Sam dictates any influences you have. This could have dramatic impact on every facet of our lives.

This, again, is a matter of turning it off if you don't want to hear it. We don't need more laws limiting people in the country. If people are offended by this, they will change the channel. If not, they will keep listening. As I said before, I myself have no use for Stern or Imus and I would never have even heard of this issue if the entire nation hadn't by day's end.

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:

BTW- Youre' right Rue, I can't think of a name for a white hetero male that packs as much punch as "faggot" or "nigger". If anyone know of one please let ME know!

We just have to hear everyday that we can't dance and we have small dicks. White women are going to hear that often enough and just skip the white guys and go straight to black men. I suppose that we should have a government program to come around and measure the size of every mans penis in the nation and their ability to dance before we allow black comedians to say this anymore.

You also might be forgetting that until our parents generation, most white ethnicities hated each other too. Remember INNA? (Irish Need Not Apply). My Grandmother, an upper middleclass Irish woman, was disowned by her family when she married a poor Polock. So I guess you can include Mick, Polock and Wop among other racial slurs against white people. There's really none as a whole, but nothing makes me think that any of these derogatory terms were less offensive to the recipients.

HKCAVALIER - Too much info for you then? Too many facts for you to handle at once? You can't handle the truth!

Ummmm... don't know what you're even refering to man. I said a billion things yesterday. Whatever it was, was so yesterday. Anything in particular you don't agree with?

FLETCH2 - Nice post. "You presume I benefit from discrimination and therefore you believe that gives you the right to denigrate me. How is that different from presuming someone that is black is inferior and believing that gives you the right to denigrate them? Excellent point.

SOUP - Still don't buy white privelage or male privelage. Sorry bout that. Reading any article about it isn't going to change my mind either. I make my judgements based on my own life experience and those around me.

Are there extreme cases where these would be truths? Even I believe that. But on the norm, I don't believe that I have any privelages because I'm white or male.

RUE - I agree with the statement until this part: "The 'product' was a POV which people said they wouldn't buy. The broadcasters made an economic decison, not a political one."

This is just not true. There are plenty of people that would still listen to Imus if they didn't can him and he'd still be making the money for his employers. This was strictly a PC decision which falls under politics and not money. Like I said before, Imus will be back. They're just going to put him on a much shorter leash before they give him a show again.

What he said really wasn't as offensive as it's been made out because of the media hoopla. I don't get all up in arms when a black man says I have a small penis because I'm white. In fact, I've said before that I love Martin Lawrence's comedy. It's called taking a joke. People are way to damn serious and their feelings are hurt easily.

Nobody had any thoughts on the articles I posted in the Miami Hearald? Rutgers accepting the apology and a Liberal African American journalist and Obama both coming out and making the parallels between what Imus said and rap artists, proving that it's not only so called Repugs that are saying that?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, April 14, 2007 10:23 PM

FREMDFIRMA

In truth, I think the answer to racism ... is apathy.

Straight up, long as a fellow driver makes his runs on time, can make himself understood over the radio, and does his job, what the hell do I care ?

Funny stuff related to this, since i discussed a part of it with the guys at work,..

Mind you, we give and recieve some pretty harsh slagging all day long, oft-times we even compare notes for amusement, it's almost a game to see who got slagged the worst in any given day.

Now, we got two arabic dudes, half brothers, on the roster, Mahmood(?) and "Bob", who we call Bob cause no one can prounounce his rightful name, and according to his half-bro, arabic folk can't pronounce it neither...

Bob's primary complaint isn't that he catches hell for being Arabic, it's that folks are so.. UNORIGINAL about it, lol.

His comment on the issue I do feel the need to share.
"No, no they don't like me, but that is okay, they don't have to like me, they just have to pay me, and I do not have to like them either, just take them where they want to go, and this is not a hard thing to do, liking is not part of it, and long enough, the liking will come later."

I think the answer to racism, rather than a direct attack, is apathy and neglect, because feeding it just makes it grow, thus if you starve it, it will die.

Just my thoughts on it, is all.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, April 15, 2007 7:14 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

6ix- I don't want to create a Department of Truth either. I just can't see a way to keep equal opportunity name-calling from becoming the only way we "communicate" with each other. More heat than light, if you know what I mean. Maybe if we remove the "commercial" element from radio... the outrageous patter fueled by the run for ratings which is in turn demanded by the advert dollar- then all of our media will calm down.

Frem- common sense and individual experience aren't strong enough to divert entrenched ideologies. Wish they were.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, April 15, 2007 10:06 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

Uptight White comedy download:
www.amazon.com/This-Honkys-Nuts-Don-Imus/dp/B00000I8Y4

Polack Imus fired for saying "HELL". He famously called Rush Limbaugh "a fat, pill-popping loser" and Lesley Stahl a "gutless, lying weasel." His exchange of insults ("fat pig") regarding his show’s former news reader, Contessa Brewer, made news as did Brewer's response ("cantankerous old fool"). When Tucker Carlson brought up Brewer on the program in 2005, Imus hung up on him, calling him "a bowtie-wearing pussy." Imus helped raise over $6 million toward Center for the Intrepid, a Texas rehabilitation facility for soldiers wounded in the war in Iraq. More recently, Imus took on the cause of the living conditions at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center. Imus' rants preceded Army resignations, including that of Gen. Kevin Kiley, then Army Surgeon General. Imus had earlier criticized Kiley's personal fitness for military duty and dedication to wounded soldiers. Imus was not the first radio personality to utter such words on the air—for example, Star of Clear Channel's radio show Star & Buc Wild referred to a caller as a "nappy-headed nigger whore" in 2001
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Imus

Quote:

IMUS: That's some rough girls from Rutgers. Man, they got tattoos and --
McGUIRK: Some hard-core hos.

IMUS: That's some nappy-headed hos there. I'm gonna tell you that now, man, that's some -- woo. And the girls from Tennessee, they all look cute, you know, so, like -- kinda like -- I don't know.

McGUIRK: A Spike Lee thing.

IMUS: Yeah.

McGUIRK: The Jigaboos vs. the Wannabes -- that movie that he had.

School Daze is a 1988 musical-drama film, written and directed by Spike Lee, and starring Laurence Fishburne, Giancarlo Esposito, and Tisha Campbell. Based in part on Spike Lee's experiences at Atlanta's Morehouse College, it is a story about fraternity and sorority members clashing with other students at a historically black college during homecoming weekend. A controversy ensued around the Imus in the Morning program in April 2007 when show producer Bernard McGuirk phrased the 2007 NCAA championship game as "Jigaboos vs Wannabes" in a reference to School Daze, which news reader Charles McCord accidentally referred to as Do the Right Thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_Daze

Truth is always a defense to slander in US courts. Put Rutgers on the witness stand and ask them under oath if they're nappy hos.

The TN team's coach is paid $2-million/year, where the university president is paid $750,000/year with his own jet, where professors are paid $6,000/year, if they're lucky. UT is a mafia university, where contract fraud on no-bid contracts is run amok, where car theft wins the world championship, billion$ in CAFR pension funds are used as personal bank accounts for bankrupt billionaires, where Scarab Secret Society is a dungeaters anonymous franchise of Skull & Bones.

Imus produced $50-million/year in ad revenues. MSNBC and CBS probably wanted to replace him with a lower-paid talking head (young and dumb is best). Senile old geezer got a golden parachute of many tens of millions, so don't feel bad for him. I can't believe anyone was stupid enough to listen to him, especially when he's making love to Jr Bush.

This is about the Khazar anti-Semitic Commie Jews ramming pro-pedophile "hate laws" thru Congress right now, using their nigger-slaves in Congress to sponsor current bills to ban the Bible, ban Christianity, ban the Jewish Torah, ban the First Amendment, ban the Constitution. Such insane laws have already passed in Canada, England, Australia, Europe, where Christian preachers go to prison for preaching the Bible. Communist Russia had the death penalty for "anti-Semitic" words against Khazar non-Jews (a/k/a Communists). All Christianity is banned in anti-Semitic Israel, where it's a felony to hand out free Bibles.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7217700265038533779&pl=true
www.TruthTellers.org
www.prisonplanet.tv/articles/july2005/020705hatecrime.htm
www.ziopedia.org/content/view/2884/58/

And the Neo Con Khazar fake-Jews perped the 9/11 Massacres, which Imus was about to nuke:

Quote:

American radio icon Don Imus disgraced, fired after threat to reveal 9/11 secrets

Source: Pravda

In a clear sign of its intent to reign in dissident American media personalities, and their growing influence in American culture, US War Leaders this past week launched an unprecedented attack upon one of their most politically 'connected', and legendary, radio hosts named Don Imus after his threats to release information relating to the September 11, 2001 attacks upon that country.

According to European reports of the events surrounding Don Imus that have gripped the United States this past week, it was during an interview with another American media personality, Tim Russert, who is the host of a television programme frequently used by US War Leaders, wherein while decrying the state of care being given to American War wounded stated, "So those bastards want to keep these boys [in reference to US Soldiers] secret? Let's see how they like it if I start talking about their [in reference to US War Leaders] secrets, starting with 9/11."

But, to the US War Leaders, Don Imus represented the most serious threat, to date, of the growing assault against them by America's media personalities threatening to expose the truths behind the events of September 11, 2001 and the Iraq/Afghanistan Wars; and to such an extent that another American media personality, Rosie O'Donnell, has expressed concern that US Military Leaders could actually imprison Mr. Imus.

It is expected, also, that the US War Leaders actions against Don Imus will have a further chilling affect upon other American media personalities questioning their authority, such as the popular US movie actor, Charlie Sheen, and who was one of the first to question the events of September 11, 2001, and as we can read as reported by New Zealand Herald News Service in their article titled "Charlie Sheen may voice 9/11 documentary", and which says:

"US actor Charlie Sheen is reportedly in talks to narrate an internet documentary that suggests elements of the US government were behind the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Centre.

Sheen's representatives say he was involved in the production of a new version of Loose Change, a 90-minute conspiracy theory film that has been seen by more than 10 million internet viewers."

www.ziopedia.org/content/view/3560/58/
www.piratenews.org/911con.html

Poem by Rosie ODonnell
www.rosie.com
had my hair cut 2 night
and on fridays show
it will magically be long again
we care more about imus than gonzales
who gets fired
when y and for what
news in america
shock jocks rule the airwaves
in suits behind desks
screaming shaming blaming
sexist racist ethnocentric
weightist homophobic
as all troops
tours r extended by 3 months
145 thousand of r bravest
dying daily in iraq
bodies blown apart
somehow trumped by birkhead
he is the daddy
junk food
junk news
america - we r bloated

9/11 Truth from FDNY Fox FX actor Daniel Sunjata

Daniel Sunjata, co-star of the critically-acclaimed FX Network television series, Rescue Me, spoke out today for 9/11 Truth. In a lengthy statement to the PatriotsQuestion911.com website, Sunjata offered his thoughts about how a small group within our military and government could have been complicit in the terrible events of 9/11. Sunjata is a versatile actor who received a Tony Award nomination for Best Actor for his starring role in the Broadway play, Take Me Out. He appeared in Woody Allen's 2004 film, Melinda and Melinda and in the 2006 movie The Devil Wears Prada with Meryl Streep. He plays the starring role of Reggie Jackson in the upcoming ESPN mini-series, The Bronx is Burning. Here's Sunjata's statement (the rest of this post is Sunjata's direct quote; note that the Patriots Question 9/11 web page will be updated later tonight to include the quote): I would like to respond to the question, "How could a small group within our military and government have been complicit in the terrible events of 9/11 without the entire government being aware of it?"
www.911blogger.com/node/7634

"Forget the lies of our oppressive Kaballistic Allied Governments."
-Huckster, Firefly, The Message

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
https://video.indymedia.org/en/2007/02/716.shtml
http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=8cd2bd0379340120e7a6ed00f2a53ee5
.1044556
www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv

PNTV banned at Gitmo!
www.piratenews.org/hollywood.html

Does that seem right to you?
www.scifi.com/onair/

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Monday, April 16, 2007 1:54 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"The evidence she amassed included a report in 2003, funded by the Department of Defense (DOD), which declared that nearly one-third of a nationwide sample of female veterans seeking health care through the V.A. said they experienced rape or attempted rape during their service. Of that group, 37 percent said they were raped multiple times, and 14 percent reported they were gang-raped."

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I just don't really think that women are thinking all that much about being raped

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Monday, April 16, 2007 6:13 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Quote:
Originally posted by piratenews:
.....The TN team's coach is paid $2-million/year, where the university president is paid $750,000/year with his own jet, where professors are paid $6,000/year

Unfortunately this is where Rutgers is heading. The football coach is the highest paid state employee ($1 million/year). The just upped the price of season tickets and increased the rates for parking at Rutgers games while cutting crew, tennis, fencing, and swimming to save $800,000. The men's tennis team has the highest GPA of any team at the school, while the women's fencing team has the highest GPA for all women's teams. The rowing team (crew) has produced over 12 Olympians and the men's fencing team is the only Rutgers team to win an NCAA championship.

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"The evidence she amassed included a report in 2003, funded by the Department of Defense (DOD), which declared that nearly one-third of a nationwide sample of female veterans seeking health care through the V.A. said they experienced rape or attempted rape during their service. Of that group, 37 percent said they were raped multiple times, and 14 percent reported they were gang-raped."

Well Rue... you're still talking an abnormal situation. I don't trust a soldier any further than I could throw them in any situation. Salt-peter and weird living conditions... I'm not suprised that situations like these arise there, doubled with the fact that rank gives you certain privelages and could aid somebody who wanted to do this by allowing them to strike fear into their subordinates if they were to tell anyone about any indescretions. I'm going to have to lump this category of people in with prison and dark alleys at night in terms of our current discussion.

I think you of all people would agree with me that living the military life is far from the normal circumstances which I was talking about.

Funny how you read a stat about that about the very organization who is supposed to be upholding the great American ideals and is currently spreading those values to the Middle East. Don'tcha think?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 6:08 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

6ix, I think that you're (rightly) feeling victimized by "the system". If I understand your recent history, you have many reasons to feel angry. But that doesn't take away from the fact that women face about a 20% lifetime risk of rape, a 1 in 25 risk of being raped by age 13. It's hard to ignore those statistics.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, April 18, 2007 6:20 PM