Staying healthy- and misleading by SignyM

"If it hurts, don't do it."
Yeah, you can calcify with 50% less pain, eh?
Keep moving, as much as you can. Life is pain, after all. Move through it!

PhDuh Chrisisall

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:49 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh yeah, here's another one:

"Drink plenty of milk for strong bones". I'm not anti-milk, anti-cheese, or anti-dairy product in general. It's just that in my 50+ years, I doubt I ever drank more than one glass of milk a day. I was worried about osteoporosis and got a DEXA, and it turns out my bones are off the chart in the positive direction. I have bones like stones, apparently. So much for needing milk! I DO take in plenty of magnesium, potassium, and protein, so maybe that has something to do with it.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:54 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Move thru pain

Grasshopper: Master, does that mean I have to play tennis today even though I have plantar fasciitis?

Master *gives a stern look*

Grasshopper: Yes master! *hobbles away to chow down some salmon*

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:56 AM

"You can't live on pizza'"

How often have I heard THAT one, yet here I am- living proof.

Extra cheese Chrisisall

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 7:57 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

A few years ago I also came to the conclusion that too much sodium 'salt' wasn't a problem, it was too much sodium 'salt' in the absense of potassium. So I experimented on myself and my slowly rising blood pressure and found it to be the case - at least for me.

I think cholesterol is a candidate for your list. I suspect that high cholesterol in the absense of omega-3 is a problem, but not otherwise. I'm working on that experiment on myself.

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:01 AM

Grasshopper: "Master, does that mean I have to play tennis today even though I have plantar fasciitis?"

Master *gives a stern look*

Master: "Get kung-Fu shoes with a more padded interior to absorb shock, and do your ankle stretches- remember, time for rest in the grave, Grasshopper!"

Poisall

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:02 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

CHRIS: Gawd, I LOVE pizza! If it wasn't made with wheat, I could eat it. And I could drink beer, too. :crieseyesout:

RUE: I tried the omega-3 experiment. It did nothing to bring down my "bad" cholesterol despite that I was taking 6 grams a day plus a couple of krill oil for good measure. (My doc kinda goggled when I told her how much I was taking.) But let me know how it works for you.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:05 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Master: "Get kung-Fu shoes with a more padded interior to absorb shock, and do your ankle stretches- remember, time for rest in the grave, Grasshopper!"

Grasshopper: Does this mean shoe-shopping? Yes Master! *scampers away*

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:05 AM

3 beers a night will help disolve bad cholesteral in your arteries...a twenty year experiment of mine. I'll publish the results soon *hic*

No tea-totaler Chrisisall

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:13 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Not that it will bring down LDL cholesterol or raise HDL - but - I STILL remember a graph from Science (or was it Nature ?) that graphed total cholesterol v death rate from all causes. And wouldn't you know, the lower cholesterol was below 235 the higher death rates zoomed up. Cholesterol higher than 235 didn't see much of an increased death rate either. Also, recent studies indicate a 'Mediterranean' diet is associated with lower CVS and dementia risk, irrespective of cholesterol and other risk factors like weight and BP. I just bought 2 historic books from the 1950's written by the man who did the original work on 'Mediterranean' diets - literally JUST got them in the mail. So I'll be looking into them to see what a 'Mediterranean' diet consists of. BTW, one of the reasons (I've read) for the liberal use of olive oil is to make all those green veggies palatable. So THAT'S the secret to eating the stuff!

"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:15 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

HA HA HA HA HA !!! I found that a glass (or so

) of wine in the AM is a good antidote for pain and stiffness. I'll be publishsing MY results as soon as I can get out of bed!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
3 beers a night will help disolve bad cholesteral in your arteries...a twenty year experiment of mine. I'll publish the results soon *hic*

No tea-totaler Chrisisall

"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:18 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

So what's the verdict here? I've always gone with the motto - if it hurts, stop doing it. Do I move though pain now ?

"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:20 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Move thru pain... but only if you premedicate. And stretch. And get sunshine. So lay on the beach with a glass of wine, and when you feel all nice and warm and relaxed, stretch REAL BIG. THEN get up!

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:22 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
So what's the verdict here? I've always gone with the motto - if it hurts, stop doing it. Do I move though pain now ?

Definitely. Raise the pain threshold, and increase flexability.
Now.

Chrisisall

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:28 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Okay Rue- you have your marching orders. Seeya on the tennis court next week... OR ELSE!

ETA: Then we'll undo all the good we've done by having a steak and salad dinner, with applesauce and vanilla ice cream for dessert, and several bottles of shiraz. Jaime, Amy, Frank and Kathy are gonna be there too... Chris, bring the folks! It's gonna be fun!

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 8:36 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Pre-medicate - eh ? I have to let you know - I'm a happy drunk.

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 2:33 PM

What was it Dennis Leary said ?
Eat right, don't smoke, get run down by a bus driven by some guy who smokes 3 packs a day ?

Every moment of life is precious, and I plan to enjoy what I have without making it so miserable it's unworthy of continuance - by my own upbringing and environment I will not likely see fifty, thanks to the deadly pollution of the neighborhood of my youth, and the damage to my health from the accident, but I fill my time with richness and pleasure and when I go I hope to do so without regret.

That sure beats a long, grey purgatory of never doing anything risky, dangerous or fun.

All that being said, C. Everett Koop was a madman, clinically insane while in office, something generally admitted after the fact, and with a history of bending studies to his will to 'prove' his idiotic little pet theories, and yet we still hold his lunacy up as what constitutes 'healthy' in the public consciousness.

So, as long as we're basing a lot of our public idea of health on the pet theories of a known lunatic, I am dubious of anything based on them - although finally progress is being made on blowing those idiotic ideas to powder, as a whole, his work is still taken on faith by a lot of people.

Just some thoughts,

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 3:08 PM

KANEMAN

"I think cholesterol is a candidate for your list. I suspect that high cholesterol in the absense of omega-3 is a problem, but not otherwise. I'm working on that experiment on myself."

Hope your dumb ass experiment is a failure

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 3:18 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Ah, the ritual bashing continues ...

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Sunday, June 17, 2007 4:12 PM

LEADB

Well, I remember the 'butter' was bad phase; use margarine. O wait, transfat is bad, and margarine is loaded with transfat!!! use Butter! (Luckily, I went with 'use what tastes good, butter' ;-) ) Sadly, most margarines are transfat free now, so I don't know what to do!!!! Wait, I know, 'use butter' ;-)
Seriously, about the only thing I'm clear on is avoidance of transfats. Most of the rest of the stuff seems a bit fadish. I try to eat more 'whole foods' and am, of late, been trying to take organic food when available to avoid the 'nasty chemicals'. But I'm not fanatic about it; and I do eat a moderate amount of junk.

I think one of the key things is to keep weight down to something reasonable; takes the pressure of the feet, ankles, knees and hips. I don't know that I will try to get to my 'ideal' weight of 170 or so, but am aiming for 185 (5'11")

Biggest problem with processed foods is it tends to be high in calories and doesn't keep you feeling full for long; thus you eat more which throws havoc into trying to keep the weight reasonable.

Drink lots of water. Hungry? Try a glass of water. Still hungry? Ok, then eat. I find I do much better if I can stick to that.

====
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Sunday, June 17, 2007 6:21 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Diet and lifestyle are not independent. I find this to be the most common mistake. There is a diet that is baseline to the American lifestyle, and that diet is high in carbohydrates and salt, but you can’t paint diet with a broad brush and simple fads. It depends too much on your lifestyle and type of foods you’re already eating and are available. You can’t say that avoiding salt or grains is good or bad, because it depends too much on too many other things. You’ll die without salt, but too much will kill you too. You might starve to death trying to eat a diet devoid of grains, but most Americans are so overweight it probably would help them to avoid high calorie foods like grains for a little while.

Although some of these fads are a bit exaggerated, like avoiding fish. This comes as a result that many fish are found with concentrations of heavy metals in them, which because of certain solubility gets trapped in the fatty tissue. And this is all true, but fish is way too important to a healthy diet to allow this to prevent you from eating it. And the concentration of these heavy metals have never really been shown to be that dangerous. So in my opinion, this is much more of an environmental scare tactic then any kind of real health hazard. Eat fish, and eat a lot of it.

A similar thing can probably be said of avoiding the sun. Although in most cases, I think what is meant is to avoid sun burn by using an appropriate sunscreen. Sun burn is not all that good for you, but sun exposure itself is great. It’s actually been shown to be beneficial to mental health as well.

I love pizza too. But I make my own, because I can’t stand that crap that gets passed off as pizza by American pizza chains.

My own diet would be considered quasi-vegetarian. I eat a lot pasta dishes and bread (lots of grains). Oatmeal, almost every morning. I add salt only at the preparation phase, never at the table, but I do end up eating plenty of salt (probably too much). I eat a lot of vegetables, mostly tomatoes, onions, mushrooms, various legumes and peppers. Fresh fruit, everyday (depending on season): peaches, cherries and apples. Fish and shellfish couple of times a week and red meats, very rare. In fact I almost never prepare red meat, although I have no problems eating it if it’s prepared by someone else. In fact I ate it today when I went to may little cousin’s 15th birthday. We ate hamburgers. And I had two. They were great, but it’s not something I eat at home or a part of my daily diet. Also about a gallon of olive oil a month. I consider my diet to be extremely healthy and very easy to maintain because I don’t eat it to be healthy, but rather it is tasty and I enjoy the Mediterranean flavors and culture.

If you don’t like carrots, then you will probably not stay on a diet of carrots. A diet should never be about a particularly type of food or fad, it should be about a lifestyle. If you choose a healthy lifestyle, you’re diet will probably follow, maybe with a little coxing at first.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, June 19, 2007 3:23 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So... what do YOU think?

Where have "the experts" got it wrong?

I'm sure you weren't thinking of me when you asked.

My list would, of course, be considered an abominable, sacriligious heresy by most of you guys. But it would include:

Give birth in a hospital. Get treated by doctors and drugs when you get sick. Get vaccinated with everything that the CDC recommends. Get treated for being a woman (stop your periods, take hormones for menopause, get treated for pregnancy). Get a bypass surgery if you have a clot. Wearing seatbelts is definitely safer than not wearing them. Go see a doctor even if you're not sick, just in case you are. Eat from the 4 food groups everyday.

Well, I can go on and on. But I'm gonna duck out before I get stoned.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)

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Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:07 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

CTS

"Well, I can go on and on. But I'm gonna duck out before I get stoned."

Yes, any disagreement with you is an attempt to martyr you. Folks, we must all avoid any substantive discussion with CTS as it may kill her.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:16 PM

Oh yeah, cause heaven forfend she have a point.

After the last damn near unwarranted public stoning, I'd react that way too, probably worse.

Yanno there's a merit sometimes in lettin it ride when someone pushes your buttons, or tries to, just sayin....

Far as the rest of it goes, gramma was likely right when she told you if you couldn't pronounce it, it was probably bad for you.

It takes a lotta personal judgement on the matter, but the research I've done on some of the stuff we put in "food" these days bugs me a lot too.

MSG = Not very nice stuff.
(and worse is how they hide it behind a hundred and more other names.)
Aspartame = Yick, just.. yick.
Sodium Benzoate = Been hearin bad stuff about this, not sure of veracity yet.
Artificial Colors/Flavors = Nasty, substantial evidence linking behavioral disorders in children, not to mention some of it solved with propylene glycol, just icky.
High Fructose Corn Syrup = Glurg..

Not the half of it, and the worst of is that for most of us, there just ain't no avoidin a certain degree of it, not if you wanna eat that week.
Any research at all, even if you discount out of hand 90% of the stuff will still give you the willies.

At least produce isn't a big issue, as I can drive a couple miles south of here and buy it from folks I know... it's nice living next to a partially agricultural district.

But seriously, do your own homework on this stuff and you'll be a little creeped out.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, June 19, 2007 10:32 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Oh yeah, cause heaven forfend she have a point."

When she attempts to portray people who disagree with her as stoning her - no, she doesn't have a point.

I'm not sure why she feels so entitled to bland agreement from all sides - and then portrays normal debate as villainous.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 7:04 AM

You didn't just "disagree", you went on a bash-fest so vicious and unwarranted that it offended even me, and that took doing.

Disagreements fine, and sure, everyone's got an opinion, but that's not what it was, not by a long shot - or I would not have taken issue then.

Oh bloody hell with it, lemme just get right to the nitty gritty.

ACT YOUR AGE, THE BOTH OF YOU!
This petty snarkfest accomplishes nothing, everybody find a neutral corner and let's get back to the topic at hand. ok ?

And exactly WTF is Partially Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil in simple laymans terms anyway ?

"Mechanically seperated chicken" ??
Almost sounds like a fancy name for roadkill, don't it ?

Even my old friend the Twinkie had a nasty surprise or two for me...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polysorbate_80
Euuugh, doesn't sound very appetising, does it ?

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 7:20 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"You didn't just "disagree", you went on a bash-fest so vicious and unwarranted that it offended even me, and that took doing."

No, I pointed out, with references and links, the VERY obvious problems with the arguments put forth. And when CTS repeatedly refused to address those VERY valid issues I pursued them. B/c they are important and you can't change reality by shifting the discussion to your own self-martyrdom.

I would be VERY happy to discuss issues and facts.

The fact that CTS has, yet again, CHOSEN to portray everyone who disagrees with her as a rabble mob out to get her indicates to me SHE is not yet willing to discuss her notions on a factual and NEUTRAL level. Remember, this is what she said - "Well, I can go on and on. But I'm gonna duck out before I get stoned." I think that's code for - don't disagree with me.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

And exactly WTF is Partially Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil in simple laymans terms anyway ?

They take unsaturated vegetable oil (the good kind) and add hydrogen to some of those double-bonds to saturate them (turn them into single bonds). Unfortunately in the process they re-arrange the remaining double-bonds into a non-biological configuration (trans-fats) which your biological self is not equipped to deal with.

"Mechanically seperated chicken" ??
Almost sounds like a fancy name for roadkill, don't it ?

Almost - they use flayers to strip every last bit of meat off the bone - and some fat, some gristle, some bone, some nerve. It's an issue with beef especially since mad-cow comes in the nerves and tissues near the bone.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 7:28 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I'm sure you weren't thinking of me when you asked.

Actually CTS I was thinking EXACTLY of you and hoping you would come out of the woodwork.

Just hoping you'd post.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 9:34 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

FremD

For the record I buy local organic when I can, and regional organic when I can't buy local. I'm not into industrial- or Fraken-food. If you think my well considered support of SOME of the benefits of science means I endorse everything about it - then you're wrong.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 2:13 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Actually CTS I was thinking EXACTLY of you and hoping you would come out of the woodwork. Just hoping you'd post.

Why thank you, Sig. And btw, I LOVE your new signature quotation. Always look upstream. Awesome.

I really appreciate this community, despite our many disagreements. A Firefly fan just can't be all that bad.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Nullius in verba. (Take nobody's word.)

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Wednesday, June 20, 2007 11:27 PM

As far as franken-food goes, that REALLY creeps me out when it's looking to me an awful lot like GM "food" has something to do with these bee die-offs and a sudden reduction in the number of common birds....

Even someone as unversed in the details as me can spot an immediate problem with major sources of pollination falling off.

As for the birds tho, while unrelated, since it's on my mind and all... a while ago we had some birds nest in the garage frontage, and me bein me, saw no reason to remove or harm them since they were doin no harm - just common, every day black birds, maybe starlings, and only one parent bird that I ever saw.

Come one morning, the missus wakes me up early all freaked out, apparently the momma bird had unfortunately expired somehow while trying to return the nest, and was lying dead at the front of the garage door, and the missus was completely and totally horrified at the thought of the poor little chicks expiring from starvation or hypothermia, and as such, begged me for a downright miracle - save them, no matter how, no matter what, see to it that they do not die.

I quickly turned to the internet for information, knowing time was of the essence, and decided that their chances for survival here were not good, in a house with several cats, and a wholly inexperienced person trying to care for them, and looked for somewhere, anywhere, willing to rescue ordinary, garden variety, unimportant birdlings.

As this went on, the clock was certainly ticking, and having reached a point where the hypothermia risk was increasing, the only thing that could be done was to bring them in, and standing on an old cooler, I managed to pry up the fronting and just barely reach the nest, and one by one, with infinate care, placed the five baby chicks into an empty bowl lined with paper towel, making sure to settle them in properly and not risk any harm to them.

After placing them in a closed room and warm environ, and turning back to the net, found a place that would resuce and raise these birdlings, but it was a fair hike, and the spare car was technically out of commission due to bad front wheel bearings and nearly non existent brakes, but the survival of these poor little critters was completely paramount in my mind at the time, and so, off we went, front wheels wobbling and screeching, at a bare 45mph in the slow lane with the flashers on and the birdlings as secure as I could make them, in their bowl, which was in a box, which was then placed in the cooler propped open with a wedge to let in air, and belted into the back seat.

And so this white knuckled ride takes us to the place, whereupon the birdlings are placed in the care of folks who struck me as especially kind and professional, causing me to part with some of my hard earned cash as a donation, both to cover the poor little birdlings, and because such devotion to an almost unheard of cause deserved recognition of the only type that would continue it's existance.

And one final gesture, once arriving safely home, was to cut a shroud from spare cloth, dig a small grave, and lay the momma bird to rest with a hymn, although I do not follow that faith, it seemed appropriate in that she gave it all in trying to mother her own.

And the final coda to this little tale comes the next spring, this spring, actually - as another mother bird of the exact same type, almost without a doubt one of the original progeny, came again to the frontage of the garage and raised her own chicks there, which have only recently grown and flown to wherever the winds take them, no doubt to return next spring and repeat the cycle - I guess in their little birdie minds, this is a "safe" place.

Not really related to the topic, I know, but I felt like sharing it.

-Frem

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Thursday, June 21, 2007 5:22 AM