Major Terror Attack In London Foiled by Skywalken

Major.....?

Forgive me for saying so, and please don't consider this a personal attack on you, but if we start considering every two-bit MacGuyver with a nice car and a couple of propane tanks in back crasing into a tree a "MAJOR TERRORIST PLOT".... well then I guess they already have won, haven't they?

Filing this under just another reason to be prepared for anything and retain your right to protect yourself without Big Gov interfearance and sleep soundly at night knowing that you've done everything in your power to have as much control over your own destiny and saftey of your family as humanly possible.

Quote:
FROM ARTICLE:Sky's Tim Marshall said: "No doubt this was an attempted terror attack."

Yeah.... Sure you wanna live by those words Marshall? You just might end up eating them.

http://techdirt.com/articles/20070223/071109.shtml

If that wasn't enough, here's another example of officials overreacting....
Read this first: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/city_region/breaking_news/2007/01/sus
picious_obje_1.html

Then read this: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles
/2007/02/01/paralyzed_by_a_gimmick/

Let's not also forget the little things like the fact that they've banned children in our schools from carrying anything that could even remotely be considered a weapon, short of a #2 pencil. Poor Hank Hill can't even teach the kids at Bobby's school how to use tools because a screwdriver is a weapon. Geez.... Crazy nanny state. Soon my cigarettes will be considered a biological weapon and I will be in the headlines for a "Major Terrorist Attack".

I used to think that maybe I was insane.... now I'm figuring out that it's ya'all that are crazy. I'm right in the middle somewhere.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, June 29, 2007 4:21 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Everyone's some kind of nuts, Jack - it's all a matter of degree.

-F

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Friday, June 29, 2007 4:48 AM

KANEMAN

News item: Police called in the bomb squad Monday afternoon in Bushnell Park to inspect a package that originally was described as suspicious and turned out to be harmless.

We live in strange times.

The suspicious package on June 11 was actually an empty cardboard box, with the words “Hartford Food Not Bombs” written on it with a marker, along with a cartoon picture of a cupcake. The box was left from the day before, when volunteers who have distributed free vegan food in the park every week for 13 years left behind one box of meals for late-comers.

It’s what they’ve always done. Everyone in the park knows them, and the irony of the police getting involved - or of anyone thinking the nonviolent Hartford Food Not Bombs organization would distribute bombs and not food - is not lost on the volunteers, many of them veterans of multiple protests who have decided they need to do more than march.

How's that beauty...Food not bombs has been coming to Bushnell park for 13 years.....

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Friday, June 29, 2007 9:40 AM

JONGSSTRAW

They had this all over cable news early this morning. One British law enforcement fellow kept saying that this demonstrates how every citizen must remain vigil at all times.

What does that actually mean? Seems to me that any time someone actually has been "vigil" and pointed out dangerous looking Muslims or other blokes...well you're just gonna get sued by the ACLU or CAIR...and probably called a racist.

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Friday, June 29, 2007 10:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
They had this all over cable news early this morning. One British law enforcement fellow kept saying that this demonstrates how every citizen must remain vigil at all times.

What does that actually mean? Seems to me that any time someone actually has been "vigil" and pointed out dangerous looking Muslims or other blokes...well you're just gonna get sued by the ACLU or CAIR...and probably called a racist.

It means you report suspicious people or suspicious items.

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Friday, June 29, 2007 11:08 AM

SKYWALKEN

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Forgive me for saying so, and please don't consider this a personal attack on you, but if we start considering every two-bit MacGuyver with a nice car and a couple of propane tanks in back crasing into a tree a "MAJOR TERRORIST PLOT".... well then I guess they already have won, haven't they?

Two cars in crowded areas loaded with a lethal mix of gasoline, propane and nails! Together they could have killed hundreds. This WOULD have been a major terrorist attack.

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Friday, June 29, 2007 3:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
It means you report suspicious people or suspicious items.

Exactly....

That's what this has all been about from the start. And our own government is all the happier for it. Everyone, everywhere being eyes and ears for the FEDS. We're all going to be so scared someday that we'll all be agents working against each other and trusting no one but ourselves.... Maybe we won't even trust even ourselves one day.

Very reminiscant of the Youth League and the Spies from Orwell's 1984. The parents in that book were deathly afraid of their children. Of course the adults would never admit it and had became very good at hiding it. Even even a careless slip of their lips against Big Bro or Big Gov, or a temporary lapse of their stone cold poker face everyone needed to wear all day in order to avoid a visit from the thought police.... even only imagined by their own suspiscious spy kids and reported to their school could result in an indefinate, and usually permanant, vacation at the Ministry of Love.

They're already doing it quite well in Russia. Not too much different than Hitler's youth if you ask me. They even call their youth league "Nashi" (meaning "Ours"). Pretty bad taste if you ask me when it sounds so much like Nazi... but then again, I'm sure that's the appeal.

http://www.infowars.com/articles/bb/russia_putin_youth_spy_on_subversi
ves.htm

Right now a lot of this paranoia is based mostly on racism, religion and a large intentional misunderstanding of each other, leading to us vilanizing an entire people for the actions of a few of their lunatic fringe. It won't be long till the terrorists and our Governments have succeeded and we're all completely color blind and paranoid about everyone around us.

I'm not going to play their game. I do what I need to do to make sure if the shit ever hits the fan, I don't have to rely on a corrupt Government or corrupt Police force for protection or survival.

Even giving events like this any more attention than the news coverage does makes both the perps and our collective Governments smile inwardly with glee.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, June 30, 2007 11:13 AM

SKYWALKEN

After the latest attack the Brits have raised their threat level from "Severe", which means "an attack is highly likely" to "Critical", meaning "an attack is expected imminently".

Just so you UK browncoats know: This American stands with you.

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Sunday, July 1, 2007 9:07 AM

check this out.. this is what the news SHOULD have read:

Quote:
(satire)
LONDON BOMB 'NOT SCARY ENOUGH', BROWN TELLS MI5

PRIME Minister Gordon Brown has dismissed the latest London bomb scare as "feeble" and "unlikely to frighten the public".

Brown compared MI5 to the cast of 'Police Academy'
Mr Brown is understood to be disappointed with MI5's effort, describing it as "half-arsed and transparent".

A source close to Brown said: "The PM wanted to start things off by scaring the absolute, holy shit out of people.

"A badly driven Merc with a couple of gas bottles in the back does not cut the mustard.

"We asked for Arabic literature on the passenger seat, a map of Whitehall with big red crosses on it and a huge controlled explosion on live television. Someone will be getting their backside felt for this."

The source added: "We're trying to introduce ID cards, imprisonment without trial and swingeing restrictions on freedom of speech.

"We wouldn't be able to force through new parking regulations on the back of this pile of arse."

Police say they are looking for "a man" in connection with the incident in London's Haymarket.

A Metropolitan Police spokesman said: "Our investigations are currently centred on a man. If you see a man you should react with complete terror and run screaming into the nearest busy shop or pub."

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/war/london-bomb-%27not-scary-enough
%27,-brown-tells-mi5-20070629249/

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Sunday, July 1, 2007 1:06 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:

That's what this has all been about from the start. And our own government is all the happier for it. Everyone, everywhere being eyes and ears for the FEDS. We're all going to be so scared someday that we'll all be agents working against each other and trusting no one but ourselves.... Maybe we won't even trust even ourselves one day.

What this has all been about from the start is Islamic terrorist trying to kill as many infidels as they possibly can. They SAY that's what they want to do, the yell it over megaphones in demonstrations, they paint signs saying 'Death to the Infidels', and then they set off bombs, or try to set off bombs, and your response is......" Oooh, our Gov't wants us to participate in becoming like Orwell's 1984 book! How wicked and evil !! "

No, the WICKED AND EVIL comes from the folks who want to blow you, your mother and your dog up in a flurry of hot twisted metal and flames. It's NOT coming from the Gov't.

So, we should simply ignore what those loud, bearded types say, the parts about killing everyone who doesn't pray like they do? Or should we start a wide spread campaign to hurl molotov cocktails at random mosques around the city ? Sounds to me, the Gov't is doing the responsible thing here.

People, friggen get a damn clue, would you ?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, July 1, 2007 3:53 PM

Quote:
Auraptor- What this has all been about from the start is Islamic terrorist trying to kill as many infidels as they possibly can. They SAY that's what they want to do, the yell it over megaphones in demonstrations, they paint signs saying 'Death to the Infidels', and then they set off bombs, or try to set off bombs, and your response is......" Oooh, our Gov't wants us to participate in becoming like Orwell's 1984 book! How wicked and evil !! "

is that untrue? it is possible to fight a war without turning your country into a soviet style police state. i personally would rather live free and die, then be monitored by 4 million cameras(like the UK), and still be terrorized and die.

but so what is your response? should we go down the list of Arab countries and wage war on all muslims? that seems to be what we're doing.. and it doesnt seem very wise to me. come up with a better strategy then fighting a futile war on a 'tactic'. terrorism is just a means to an end, it will never cease until we address their motives. if they hate us because of their religious beliefs, then thats the approach we ought to take. it seems we would garner much more global support if we exposed an underlying indifference or hatred inherent in their belief(if as you infer its comparable to Nazi-ism)

Quote:
No, the WICKED AND EVIL comes from the folks who want to blow you, your mother and your dog up in a flurry of hot twisted metal and flames. It's NOT coming from the Gov't.

theyre not blowing us up.. theyre blowing eachother up. theyre killing us because we're in the way. we arent even a neighboring country, so why we're envolved in their politics is beyond my justification.

Quote:
So, we should simply ignore what those loud, bearded types say, the parts about killing everyone who doesn't pray like they do? Or should we start a wide spread campaign to hurl molotov cocktails at random mosques around the city ? Sounds to me, the Gov't is doing the responsible thing here.

we're not ignoring them.. we are just taking their threats in stride. the risks have yet to be proportional to the trillions of dollars and political risks envolved in this Iraqi war, and the country had nothing to do with 9/11. why dont these Bush people just admit that theyre trying to restructure the M.E., and be honost about the consequences in return for our 'meddling'. i personally belief that its our interference that motivates this behavior, and less their religious beliefs. otherwise, should we wage war on the Koran and Islam? thats the direction the Bush types are headed.. and thats a scary prospect

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Sunday, July 1, 2007 5:00 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
it is possible to fight a war without turning your country into a soviet style police state.

my country, the USA, is about as far away as a Soviet style police state as one can get. Same goes for the U.K. Spare me the hyperbole. Soviet state ? Please.

Quote:
should we go down the list of Arab countries and wage war on all muslims? that seems to be what we're doing.. and it doesnt seem very wise to me. come up with a better strategy then fighting a futile war on a 'tactic'

It might not be a bad idea, judging from how prevelent the Islamo fascist are across the mid - East. But the fact is, we're fighting in a grand total of 2 countries. And only Afghanistan was a direct result from 9/11. As for the 'tactic' nonsense, I agree. Calling the enemy 'terror' is b.s. It's politically correct garbage, when in stead it should be noted we're fighting MUSLIMS. Call them Jihadist, Islamo-fascists, hijackers of Islam, but THEY all believe they're doing Allah's work. Just as do the Palestinian whack jobs who blow themselves up. As long as they identify themselves as part of a specific religion, we should be honest about it and call them what they are.

Quote:
theyre not blowing us up.. theyre blowing eachother up. theyre killing us because we're in the way. we arent even a neighboring country, so why we're envolved in their politics is beyond my justification.

Wrong. They're blowing up everyone, themselves included. Bali, Spain, England, Scotland, the WTC (twice ) here in the USA.... Thoses aren't 'in the way' of their religious war between sects, it's a F-ing free for all.

Quote:
i personally belief that its our interference that motivates this behavior, and less their religious beliefs. otherwise, should we wage war on the Koran and Islam? thats the direction the Bush types are headed.. and thats a scary prospect

That's horsecrap. Our 'meddling' isn't what drives them to murder in the name of Allah. It's just the excuse they use. Fact is, they'll say and do anything , or accuse US of anything, just to justify their attacks. Sorry , but taking that in stride isn't gonna happen. YOU say it's a scary diretion the Bush types are taking us, but you ignore that its the Islamists who have been taking us that direction since BEFORE Bush even announced he was running for office. This has virtually NOTHING to do w/ Bush, sorry to break it to you. He's just the 1st one to stand up and do something about it. Although I wish he'd do a lot more.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, July 4, 2007 1:49 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!

By the Queen's definition, I was a terrorist bomber when I lived in England. Driving to motor races with my caravan propane tank and jerry cans of petrol. Especially when I completely set my body on fire at Brands Hatch and RAF Upper Heyford. Plus my govt job of sabotaging US military bases using C4 bombs and blowing up RAF bases in Bicester...

As for this latest scam, ARREST THE QUEEN AND HER MINIONS ASAP!

Quote:

ANTIMASON SEZ:

(satire)
LONDON BOMB 'NOT SCARY ENOUGH', BROWN TELLS MI5

Roger that. Brown just had to rubberstamp his dictatorship before the Redcoats fired him. Shaylergate all over again (MI5/6 running all "IRA" bombings).

MI5 knew of plot in advance
London Telegraph, July 3, 2007
www.infowars.com/articles/terror/uk_car_bomb_mi5_knew_of_plot_in_advan
ce.htm

Website That Predicted London Bombs an Intelligence Agency Front
Fellow jihadist forums claim Al Hesbah infiltrated and controlled by ISI, CIA
www.infowars.com/articles/terror/uk_car_bomb_website_predicted_london_
bombs_an_intel_agency_front.htm

Scotland Yard detective dismisses "car bombings" as nothing more than a bonfire

US & UK bombed UK & EU & USA
Operations Northwoods & Gladio
www.wikipedia.org

ALL DAY MARATHON ON HISTORY CHANNEL TODAY:
July 4 1776 US/UK/French Revolutionary Civil World War
UK bombed and burned all of USA in terror attacks
US Navy pirates attacked British mainland
www.historychannel.com

JOS WHEEDON SAYS GEORGE BUSH IS AN EVIL DICTATOR ON HISTORY CHANNEL
REVENGE OF THE SITH ABOUT INSIDE JOB FALSE FLAG TERRORISM BY GANGSTA GOVT
STAR WARS: THE LEGACY REVEALED
VIDEO DOWNLOADS:
www.history.com/minisite.do?content_type=Minisite_Video_Clips&content_
type_id=54086&display_order=5&mini_id=54078

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Episode_III:_Revenge_of_the_Sit
h
www.infowars.com/articles/ps/darth_nwo.htm
www.your-rights.com/9-11/

"Son, you're not the first man to piss off a woman and end up stranded on the side of the road. That's why I always take my keys with me when I get out."
-Trucker, Drive

DRIVE VS POLICE STATE: FREE TV EPISODES ONLINE
OOPS! CANCELLED!!! FINAL EPPS ON JULY 4 8PM EST
WTF?! FINAL EPPS FRIDAY 13 JULY 8PM EST!!! FOX SUX!
www.myspace.com/driveonfox

FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
https://video.indymedia.org/en/2007/02/716.shtml
http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?vid=8cd2bd0379340120e7a6ed00f2a53ee5
.1044556
www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv

Does that seem right to you?
www.scifi.com/onair/

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Friday, July 6, 2007 5:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

my country, the USA, is about as far away as a Soviet style police state as one can get.

we have the constitution which separates us. so why are republicans undermining it? lets put aside the obvious potential for abuse of domestic spying and warrantless wire-tapping and searches. according to(section 802 of) the patriot act, a CITIZEN(who is 'believed) to be putting anothers life in danger, and is in violation of any state or federal law, can be classified as an 'enemy combatant.' now again, this portion was written in regards to 'citizens.' SO consider the Military commissions act, the 'death knell' of liberty, which provides for the detainment of any suspected 'combatant', without the so called "restrictions" of trials and juries and all those other fundementals of our justice system. throw in the new Eminent Domain ruling, and the government can now lock you away in secret and steal your property . oh.. and you might get tortured some too, its really up to 'them'

so since free speech, gun rights and the various other civil liberties are being irreparably undermined, tell me what makes us different from the Soviets? and dont say its 'because we're at war', that should never have been an excuse, since we(in principle)are figting to RETAIN our freedoms! what you are asking is to sacrifice them, for 'security'. someone will likely quote (i think Franklin)'those who will exchange liberty for security deserve neither', or Patrick Henry's 'give me liberty or give me death'. standing up at home for liberties is how you truly preserve freedom. instead, its the political elite making these demands, so they are the more egregious terrorists. they pass the laws, only they can abolish our liberties. it makes you wonder who really has the contempt for our freedoms

Quote:
Same goes for the U.K. Spare me the hyperbole. Soviet state ? Please.

so im just imagining the 4.5 million CCTV cameras perpetually monitoring the little British island? and their legislation, like the terrorism act, gives the police the right to make any offense arrestable! this is the precedent that all you terrorism fearmongerers are setting.. and you dont even recognize the damage you are doing to individual liberties in the process

Quote:
It might not be a bad idea, judging from how prevelent the Islamo fascist are across the mid - East.

if the motive for 'terror' lies within the Koran, lets address the Koran. but war, isnt the answer. maybe someday a war will be waged on Christianity.. i hope not, but if so, i pray its handled differently then invasion and conflict.

IMO a coalition of 'believers', of the various Abrahamic faiths, would do more to dissuade an 'extremist' from suicide, then a conflict meant to draw them out of the 'woodworks'. unless they intend to mobilize a visible army, for Allah, our money is being wasted on an ineffective strategy. the kind of world policing envisioned, to stomp out 'extremism', will FORCE imperialism on the world, initiate more anti-american dissent, and eventually bankrupt our country. this conflict is not sustainable, and needs to be addressed differently.. rather then preemptively attacking any country with a criminal and a disposition towards America

Quote:
But the fact is, we're fighting in a grand total of 2 countries.

so why maintain bases in the other 120 countries?? and what about Iran(arent we to invade or attack them too)

Quote:
And only Afghanistan was a direct result from 9/11.

why wasnt Saudi Arabia? 15 of the 19 hijackers were from there, including the whole Bin Laden family? instead, the Bush cronies manufactured a list(all debunked now) of reasons why Iraq was a threat to us, and off we went. well a few trillion dollars later, and the benefit of hindsight, what a complete waste of lives and money this has been; maybe the worst mistake since Vietnam, and probably far more damaging in the end. so this time, we're wise to the establishments lies, now regarding Iran and its 'nuclear programme'(still 10yrs off), and we dont intend to fall for the same propaganda that some are still under the illusion of

Quote:
As for the 'tactic' nonsense, I agree. Calling the enemy 'terror' is b.s. It's politically correct garbage, when in stead it should be noted we're fighting MUSLIMS. Call them Jihadist, Islamo-fascists, hijackers of Islam, but THEY all believe they're doing Allah's work. Just as do the Palestinian whack jobs who blow themselves up. As long as they identify themselves as part of a specific religion, we should be honest about it and call them what they are.

if you will concede this much, why not consider how ineffectively the war is being fought, and whether its being done this way deliberately, for certain other motives

Quote:
Wrong. They're blowing up everyone, themselves included. Bali, Spain, England, Scotland, the WTC (twice ) here in the USA.... Thoses aren't 'in the way' of their religious war between sects, it's a F-ing free for all.

but if elements within those governments guided those attacks along, in order to benefit politically from the aftermath, would you accept it? before you answer that, google Operation Northwoods, Gladio, and the gulf of tonkin incident. 9/11 would not have occurred, if NORAD and FAA and the Pentagon, and Dick Cheney in his little bunker, hadnt all massively 'failed', in complete unison, to do their jobs and protect the country. there are mountains of little clues, that do not recieve attention in the mainstream, that better solve the crime when viewing the evidence as a whole. what ive learned is that we didnt need homeland security and the patriot act to prevent the events of that day, we needed fewer criminals in government

Quote:
That's horsecrap. Our 'meddling' isn't what drives them to murder in the name of Allah. It's just the excuse they use. Fact is, they'll say and do anything , or accuse US of anything, just to justify their attacks.

there are usually two sides to every story. i know for a fact that our 'meddling' does us more harm than good. how do i know this? well, how would we react if this were happening to us? we've only had minor intrusions from muslims in the history of our counrty, yet by the sound if it you'd think our shores had been invaded, and our precious cultural institutions destroyed. ironically, thats what we've done to them.. but we're supposed to believe they should love us for it

Quote:
Sorry , but taking that in stride isn't gonna happen. YOU say it's a scary diretion the Bush types are taking us, but you ignore that its the Islamists who have been taking us that direction since BEFORE Bush even announced he was running for office.

we were victimized by some criminals... but they in-themselves didnt force us into Iraq, or soon into IRan, or into a global war against Islam. they didnt even write the Patriot act or M.C. bill... thats all under the direction of the Bush republican types

Quote:
This has virtually NOTHING to do w/ Bush, sorry to break it to you. He's just the 1st one to stand up and do something about it. Although I wish he'd do a lot more.

the first one to 'stand up'? omg... yeah, hes this 'noble guardian, honost and steadfast, never wavering from the defense of liberty..'

he's a criminal traitor socialist who wouldnt tell the truth if it got him re-elected. hes just the '1st one' to blatantly piss on the constitution and get his ass kissed for it

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Friday, July 6, 2007 5:45 PM

First off, Antimason..... what a beautiful response to every point. I don't think it could ever have been answered better. It truly makes me feel good that there are others like me who will not bow down to terror, no matter what side of the fence it is coming at us from. If the proverbial shit every REALLY hit the fan, may I say it would be an honor to fight for the preservation of Liberty along side you.

As for Auraptor... I've figured out what the problem is. He's a scared little boy. He's allowed his fear and racism and his own misunderstandings and misconceptions of other people half a world away to be twisted and manipulated by the very people who want us all to act and think the way that he does.

Frankly... i feel sorry for him. If he were a German in the 40's, he'd be one of Them forcing people into the cyanide showers for the Fatherland.

I truly hope that I'm surrounded by more Antimasons than I am Auraptors. Time will only tell as our collective Governments keep pushing us further down that road and the people take off their masks of politeness and show their true faces.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, July 6, 2007 8:10 PM

Quote:
6ixStringJack:

It truly makes me feel good that there are others like me who will not bow down to terror, no matter what side of the fence it is coming at us from. If the proverbial shit every REALLY hit the fan, may I say it would be an honor to fight for the preservation of Liberty along side you.

well im honored as well Jack. ill probably hold you to that

the declaration of independance says that "whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government". you can tell we're on the verge of another revoluation... i pray its a complete restoration(of the constitution), that finally brings the criminal conspirator traitors to justice. otherwise, itll be global government socialism. it would be the epitome of the phrase 'power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely'

Quote:
I truly hope that I'm surrounded by more Antimasons than I am Auraptors. Time will only tell as our collective Governments keep pushing us further down that road and the people take off their masks of politeness and show their true faces.

global governments the agenda, and the western elite are behind it. anyone who refuses this does so willfully

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Friday, July 6, 2007 8:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Frankly... i feel sorry for him. If he were a German in the 40's, he'd be one of Them forcing people into the cyanide showers for the Fatherland.

exactly.. the similarities are profound. and you always wonder about those patriotic Germans, who bought the NAZI lies hook line and sinker

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Saturday, July 7, 2007 1:25 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Major.....?

Forgive me for saying so, and please don't consider this a personal attack on you, but if we start considering every two-bit MacGuyver with a nice car and a couple of propane tanks in back crasing into a tree a "MAJOR TERRORIST PLOT".... well then I guess they already have won, haven't they?

It was a major attempt, it would have killed hundreds if it had worked.

Thankfully it didn't.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, July 7, 2007 2:48 PM

Then the Terrorists and the State already won, didn't they Cit? It was a half ass job with nails and propane. Any wanker can take a trip to the hardware store and put that together without more than 5 minutes pre-meditation. I fail to see how this can seriously be called a "MAJOR TERRORIST PLOT".

Sure, it's a pity for their families if they died, and forgive me for sounding like I don't care, but I don't care about 100 nameless, faceless people in London.

It's not a national thing, so don't get on your high horse about US only giving a shit about what happens within their borders. It's strictly a people thing. 100 human beings mean nothing to me, particularly in a world that is crowded and overpopulated as it is. I wouldn't care about 100 people dying in Chicago either.

If it's not me or mine, I'm not worried about it, and I'm not EVER going to live in fear of it or turn spy for the FEDS. Are you going to piss in your boots every night now? Or are you going to take the steps necessary to do everything in your power to make sure it doesn't happen to you and the people you care about.... the only people that should really matter to you. Are you going to become NARC for the State now? Or are you going to just be a little bit more aware of your surroundings in order to think quick to protect yourself from this?

The chances you will be involved in a Terrorist attack in your lifetime would be less likely than you being struck by lightning.

Let's not even give this matter any more press. It only serves to feed the deadlier kind of Trolls.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, July 7, 2007 9:36 PM

Here's the thing. Thanks to the IRA it's very hard to buy the oxidizer part of a home made bomb in the UK without the police finding out. Try to buy significant amounts of potasium nitrate for example and you draw attention to yourself (in fact some guys tried that and got caught/convicted earlier this year. )

To get around that restriction the London bombers were attempting to make a fuel air explosive device. If you can make it work then it gets around the monitoring of oxidizer sales since you use the air as an oxidizer. It would be next to impossible to monitor all sales of suitable fuels. You could build bombs under the radar.

And fuel/air explosives is not a stupid McGuyver idea, it's actually a way to make a very powerfull explosive, even the US military use it for some classes of ordinance. If you think on it fuel/air explosions power every internal combustion engine that runs. Your car generates something like 100+ HP of energy from maybe a 8 liters of a fuel/air mixture so it's pretty powerful stuff.

It looks like they attempted to fill large cars with the fuel/air mixture and ignite it remotely. Large cars can enclose a large volume of fuel/air mixture and are less likely to be considered suspicious compared to using a truck.

My guess is that they didnt really have the mix right and that stopped the plan from working.

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Saturday, July 7, 2007 10:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:

Sure, it's a pity for their families if they died, and forgive me for sounding like I don't care, but I don't care about 100 nameless, faceless people in London.

It's not a national thing, so don't get on your high horse about US only giving a shit about what happens within their borders. It's strictly a people thing. 100 human beings mean nothing to me, particularly in a world that is crowded and overpopulated as it is. I wouldn't care about 100 people dying in Chicago either.

That's ok dont suppose anyone really cares what happens to you either so I guess we're even.

Quote:

If it's not me or mine, I'm not worried about it, and I'm not EVER going to live in fear of it or turn spy for the FEDS. Are you going to piss in your boots every night now? Or are you going to take the steps necessary to do everything in your power to make sure it doesn't happen to you and the people you care about.... the only people that should really matter to you. Are you going to become NARC for the State now? Or are you going to just be a little bit more aware of your surroundings in order to think quick to protect yourself from this?

Oh yes, family protection via the awesome power of macho posturing. Tell us how that works out for you......

Quote:

The chances you will be involved in a Terrorist attack in your lifetime would be less likely than you being struck by lightning.

You see right there is your problem. Say a bomb goes off and 100 people die. Your argument is that if they are not your kin then it's not your problem. The dificulty here is that it will be someone's kin getting killed and you know, normal people with empathy and stuff might just possibly imagine themselves in that situation and do what they can to protect the other poor bas*'ds family too. Not you Jack that's people with normal mental makeups we're talking about not someone that feels the need to object to paying cigarette taxes in almost every topic he talks about.

My goodness, that was quite refreshing.

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Saturday, July 7, 2007 11:08 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Then the Terrorists and the State already won, didn't they Cit? It was a half ass job with nails and propane. Any wanker can take a trip to the hardware store and put that together without more than 5 minutes pre-meditation. I fail to see how this can seriously be called a "MAJOR TERRORIST PLOT".

Well aside from the fact that it's not that easy to get the components of a bomb, I could build you a nuclear device with enough U235, they're actually pretty simple.

Personally I fail to see how something isn't a major attack just because it fails. The Japanese wanted, but failed, to wipe out the entire American Pacific fleet, so that's not a major attack. What if the planes had missed the world trade centre buildings? Would that mean it wasn't a major attack? No harm no foul? How does success or failiure change intent?

Quote:
Sure, it's a pity for their families if they died, and forgive me for sounding like I don't care, but I don't care about 100 nameless, faceless people in London.

Forgive you for sounding like you don't care, but you don't?

These attacks were aimed at a place in London not five minutes walk from where I work, places I walk past nearly everyday, so forgive me if I do care.

Quote:
It's not a national thing, so don't get on your high horse about US only giving a shit about what happens within their borders. It's strictly a people thing.

So why does so many of the American people, and Government expect the rest of the world to rally round when they're attacked, and help fight the 'war' on 'terror'? What was 'Freedom Fries' all about?

Quote:
If it's not me or mine, I'm not worried about it, and I'm not EVER going to live in fear of it or turn spy for the FEDS. Are you going to piss in your boots every night now?

It's funny you read fear into what I said. Do people either agree with you or live in a state of abject terror? I've not lived a day of my life without the threat of some terrorist organisation, so no terrorism doesn't make me wet myself, it doesn't make want to open up concentration camps either. But living in denile, and refusing to see a large scale terrorist attack for what it is, just because it didn't succeed, isn't exactly a reasoned responce either.

Quote:
Or are you going to take the steps necessary to do everything in your power to make sure it doesn't happen to you and the people you care about.... the only people that should really matter to you.

You mean the same people who could have easilly been hurt in these attacks?

Quote:
Are you going to become NARC for the State now?

How would becoming a Narcotics agent help?

Besides, working for the Military as I do, I rather suspect you already characterised me as a jackbooted nazi.

Quote:
The chances you will be involved in a Terrorist attack in your lifetime would be less likely than you being struck by lightning.

I'm not afraid of that either, but I'm not going to go out and play golf in the middle of a rain storm.

Quote:
Let's not even give this matter any more press. It only serves to feed the deadlier kind of Trolls.

Well, no one is actually forcing you to post here.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, July 7, 2007 11:32 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
BLAH BLAH BLAH

What's your solution then Fletch2?

Better start kissing Big Brother's ass now then.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, July 7, 2007 11:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Well aside from the fact that it's not that easy to get the components of a bomb, I could build you a nuclear device with enough U235, they're actually pretty simple.

Your point here is over my head. Glad you know how to make a bomb though.

Quote:
Personally I fail to see how something isn't a major attack just because it fails. The Japanese wanted, but failed, to wipe out the entire American Pacific fleet, so that's not a major attack. What if the planes had missed the world trade centre buildings? Would that mean it wasn't a major attack? No harm no foul? How does success or failiure change intent?

Never said it was because it failed. I said it was not major because we're only talking about 100 people, and I'm sure that number was greatly exaggerated.

This was also a government plant to scare people as well because if I were to have rigged this up myself, it would have worked. For cryin' out loud man... if these guys were anything to fear, wouldn't they have tested this out many times before hand, like they were on MythBusters or something?

Their trial run (which failed miserabley on 2 fronts) was the actual bombing!? Fucking retards more like it. I wouldn't call them terrorists.

Nice to see that the scare tactics of your new PM are working flawlessly, even among the more intelligent and well educated Brits. Good thing you have half a million cameras watching your every move on that island, huh?

Quote:
Forgive you for sounding like you don't care, but you don't?

These attacks were aimed at a place in London not five minutes walk from where I work, places I walk past nearly everyday, so forgive me if I do care.

I didn't mean forgive me. I don't care, and I couldn't possibly care less what you think about me for that either. If you're that worried, go steal a suit of armour from the palace and wear it on the way to and from work.

Quote:
So why does so many of the American people, and Government expect the rest of the world to rally round when they're attacked, and help fight the 'war' on 'terror'? What was 'Freedom Fries' all about?

Can't speak to that Cit. You know my stance on that. I think most of the people here are idiot sheeple and I don't trust our Government one single iota. Remember Cit? I was hating on my government before it was the "cool" thing to do.

Quote:
It's funny you read fear into what I said. Do people either agree with you or live in a state of abject terror? I've not lived a day of my life without the threat of some terrorist organisation, so no terrorism doesn't make me wet myself, it doesn't make want to open up concentration camps either. But living in denile, and refusing to see a large scale terrorist attack for what it is, just because it didn't succeed, isn't exactly a reasoned responce either.

Good for you then Cit. In the mean time, you're very quickly becoming an Orwelian police state. And it's not that hard to do to a little island. At least here, I'm able to save my money now and move out into Montana under trees some day in the middle of nowhere and escape most of that bullshit one day. Truth is, I feel sorry for most of you all living on that island. Not because of the terrorists, but because of the Government.

Quote:
How would becoming a Narcotics agent help?

By NARC, I wasn't talking about drugs, but just being an agent and a rat to the police and snitch out every little thing somebody does that your people's ever increasingly paranoid minds will decipher as being "suspicious". I seriously suggest you read 1984 if you haven't to see what I'm getting at. I am seriously worried about my own Government heading that way, but it looks to me like you're already there if not a step or two away from it.

Quote:
Besides, working for the Military as I do, I rather suspect you already characterised me as a jackbooted nazi.

Well, I certainly don't see you as part of the solution, but I'm not against the notion of realizing the good of the individual and their belief that what they do is good. I'm just pointing out that if the people of London suffer too many more of these "MAJOR TERRORIST ATTACKS", they're likely to embrace even more military and police presence and cameras and they will lose anything worth having as a result. I fail to see the point....

Quote:
I'm not afraid of that either, but I'm not going to go out and play golf in the middle of a rain storm.

What does that mean? Does that mean that you won't go out of your dwelling anymore unless you're on your way to work? With all the press stuff like this is getting, it would seem to me that it's always raining in Britan..... Wait a minute.... doesn't it always rain in Britan?

Quote:
Well, no one is actually forcing you to post here.

I know man. I still live in a (relatively) free country.

I'm not hating on you Citizen. I truly feel sorry for the state of affairs in your country and in the world now. We just disagree on the source of our woes. We started this. Primarily the actions in the last 100 years of the US and the UK. We've given them the technology, the resources, the training and the motive to do what they're doing now.

I think it was planned that way from the start. It's a lot harder to reign in a free people who don't have imminent doom hanging over their heads 24/7.

Good day to you man. I hope we have better ones up ahead.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, July 8, 2007 1:22 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Your point here is over my head. Glad you know how to make a bomb though.

My point was that bombs are conceptually really easy to build, that it's easy to say "I would have been able to do it, these people are obviously retarded". The practicalities, however, are somewhat different.

Quote:
Never said it was because it failed. I said it was not major because we're only talking about 100 people, and I'm sure that number was greatly exaggerated.

Was your point that you are a sociopath? I can't see much else here, beyond you proclaiming that you effectively have no empathy. As for the exaggeration, you obviously have no comprehension of how crowded London is, of how many people were at the sites that they tried to attack.

Quote:
This was also a government plant to scare people as well because if I were to have rigged this up myself, it would have worked.

I think your a TERRORIST plant to make people scared of the GOVERNMENT!!! Or not, whatever, conspiracy theories are fun.

Quote:
For cryin' out loud man... if these guys were anything to fear, wouldn't they have tested this out many times before hand, like they were on MythBusters or something?

Why didn't they think of that? It's not like anyone would notice a group of shifty looking fellas testing home made explosives all over middle England. They could wear Groucho Marx glasses and go incognito.

Quote:
Their trial run (which failed miserabley on 2 fronts) was the actual bombing!? Fucking retards more like it. I wouldn't call them terrorists.

Yeah, if they were real professional terrorists they'd have started off with the video tape "Bomb making, maiming and bludgeoning, a DIY guide". Maybe even gone on to the University of Terrorland, and studied for their doctorates in terror science.

Where do you propose they perform these trial runs? As you point out this is only 'a little island', with no where to hide from the big bad gumminant, so where the hell do you propose these fellas go hide their big bastard trial run explosions?

Quote:
I seriously suggest you read 1984 if you haven't to see what I'm getting at. I am seriously worried about my own Government heading that way, but it looks to me like you're already there if not a step or two away from it.

I've read 1984, more than once, and actually from a sociological point of view America is closer, as far as I can see. I mean some of those people cheering American bombs flattening Baghdad was eerily reminiscent of 'a minutes hate'. But whatever, I don't want to get into another idiotic round of "You're country is more totalitarian than my country" thanks anyway.

It interests me that you've come to the conclusion that 1984 has come to pass in a country you know nothing about, where's that particular gem from? PrisonPlanet?

Excuse me a moment the fascist police are chasing me, and they're armed! Personal Rocket Launchers! AIIIEEE!

Quote:
What does that mean? Does that mean that you won't go out of your dwelling anymore unless you're on your way to work? With all the press stuff like this is getting, it would seem to me that it's always raining in Britan..... Wait a minute.... doesn't it always rain in Britan?

Yes, and it's always sunny in America. And no, what I wrote was what I meant (funny that), merely that just because the chances of being hit by Lightning are remote, doesn't mean I'm going to run out into the middle of a thunderstorm brandishing a bloody great lightning rod screaming at the sky like a demented fool, "Come on god you big useless bastard, hit me! HIT ME!". The point was not that I'm afraid of my own shadow, it was that I'm not a bloody fool, recognising a threat and living in abject terror of it are two very different things.

Driving a car is dangerous, what you do is drive safely, not ignore the danger and drive like a maniac, safe in the knowledge that 'it can't happen to you', nor cower in fear in your own home crying to sleep every night, afraid the 'cars' might get you.

Quote:
Good for you then Cit. In the mean time, you're very quickly becoming an Orwelian police state. And it's not that hard to do to a little island. At least here, I'm able to save my money now and move out into Montana under trees some day in the middle of nowhere and escape most of that bullshit one day. Truth is, I feel sorry for most of you all living on that island. Not because of the terrorists, but because of the Government.

Someone on another board summed it up pretty well:

Quote:
I saw 'Sicko' over the weekend. It included a lengthy interview with a retired British MP who was very eloquent and illustrated things so beautifully...anyway, his explanation as to the difference between Britain, France, & other Western European countries vis-a-vis the USA is that in Europe, the government is afraid of the people. In America, the people are afraid of the government. And by golly, I think he's got it.

Continue to be afraid of your government, and of everyone else's, I don't live my life in fear of shadows, no matter who is lurking in them. You're ranting against other people being afraid of the Terrorist bogeyman, while fearing the Government Bogeyman yourself.

Either way, you're still jumping at shadows.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Sunday, July 8, 2007 7:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
BLAH BLAH BLAH

What's your solution then Fletch2?

Better start kissing Big Brother's ass now then.

I don't live in fear. I continue my life and remain ever aware of danger.

Quick little factoids for you. On September 11th 2001 I was in Dallas TX visiting the US office of the European company I was then working for. It had been expected that on Sept 12th I would fly to San Francisco to visit the office out there, needless to say that didn't happen.

However, I was on one of the first flights from Dallas to SF the day that flights restarted. There were I think 14 of us on the plane in all classes and the airport was completely deserted. Because there were rumors of strikes against tourist sites and Malls it became an erie trip, I ate at a Mall sandwich shop where I was the only customer they'd had that day. The waitress seemed amazed that I flew there and even more amazed I was about to fly back to Europe. It was the only time I have ever been able to get on a cable car without queing.

Frankly I was amazed by the American reaction until I realised that this kind of stuff hardly ever happens to them. I shopped in Harrods two days before the IRA blew it up, I have travelled into London the day after the IRA attacked train stations there. As Citizen says there has not been a moment in my life where there wasn't the risk of dying in a terrorist incident. That chance is VERY small, smaller than being run over by a PirateNews style drunk driver when crossing the road, but you do the calculations and get on with your life being more aware of your surroundings as you do so. America now lives the same lives Europeans have for decades. You guys are adjusting, if there was ever another Al Q spectacular I suspect most Americans would get on with their lives the next day.

I am curious though. Say you take your family to the city and while you are doing something you see a guy acting in an odd way. He could be planting a bomb, he could just be up to something. Are you saying you'd just leave him doing what he's doing because as long as you and yours were clear of the area there was be no harm, no foul, or would you talk to nice Mr policeman?

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Sunday, July 8, 2007 9:31 AM