Is Fox News the US version of Pravda? by SoupCatcher

America loves a winner!

What I find funny is a Left winger trying to sell us that a private news organization - FOX - is in any way remotely related to the Soviet news agancy, Pravda. What's even better, is that you're using the Daily KOS, as your basis of your story. And what is the BIG story? On 3 occasions, ( THAT'S 3 ) though 1000's of broadcast hours over weeks and weeks, FOX newsies screwed up and put an 'D' where a 'R' should be, or committed the ultimtate sin of reporting the TRUTH, in that Scotter Libby wasn't found guilty of SOMETHING.

Priceless

Lee Harvey Oswald murdered JFK Jr, and the Left somehow conned America into thinking it was anyone/ everyone BESIDES the commie loser who actually did the deed. Under 'normal' circumstances, if a nation had been told that a commie sympathiser had killed its President, the nation would be drawn more toward the Right. And yet, from '63 to '68, the political movement bewilderingly moved toward the Left. The Left wing elites said that 'Dallas' had killed JFK, because being in the South, it didn't care much for N.E. Liberal types trying to tell Southerners what to do. ( i.e. Civil Rights ) The fact of the matter was, it was a devote of that which the Left admired, one of their own, who killed Kennedy.

And so the bait and switch continues today. FOX News like Pravda, says the Daily KOS ?

Please.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:24 AM

DINKY

Huh?? Wow... I can't believe someone is saying that mainstream media is trying to help the Republican party.

Thank you all so much for making me laugh so hard. I don't know how anyone could think that any of the mainstream media (mostly video networks) actually want to give success to the Republican party.

"Th3re !s n0 spo0Ne." -The Matricks

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 12:02 PM

What's so laughable really about the media being conservatively biased?

Yes, people in the media are probably, generally, more liberal than conservative. Sadly, that's pretty much irrelevant.

The people who call the big shots like things to be safe. Hell, company CEO's are obligated to respect profit above all else, including truth and principle.

The issue really has less to do with "republican" or "democrat" and more to do with shareholder interests, and which filter will be best for company interests.

For those of you insisting that the media generally has a liberal bias, what pray tell is the basis?

Do you think they prefer to alienate their biggest sponsors?

Do you think they want to seat politicians who will work to break up their steadily deregulated industry?

Do you think they want a return to the fairness doctrine?

If you don't think sponsorship has a hand in anything, consider the near fate of Air America. It was blacklisted by 90 BIG companies, which discretely told their advertising handlers not to to advertise on the station. Tell me that doesn't hurt a station's chances.

I could find no such list for Fox News or Limbaugh.

For that matter, Did anybody see the hatchet job CNN tried to do on SICKO?

....................................

Does anybody have a plausible reason why big company owned capitalistic media would lean left? Or does it just fly in the face of reason, inspite of being the honest truth. Is it an industry that likes to cut off its nose in spite of its face? Do the CEO's in charge say "damn the shareholders" I want my ideology expressed!?"

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 12:28 PM

Come on, Pravda ain't that bad.

The idea that the American televised news is dominated by 'liberals' is laughable. You couldn't get a set of much more right-wing news outlets if you asked General Pinochett to take over as information minister.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 12:37 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
For that matter, Did anybody see the hatchet job CNN tried to do on SICKO?

No. For once, I saw CNN actually do some honest reporting and showed Michael THE HUTT Moore to be exactly who we all knew him to be. A 2 bit lying propagandist who cherry picks facts to fit his agenda.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 12:39 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Come on, Pravda ain't that bad.

The idea that the American televised news is dominated by 'liberals' is laughable. You couldn't get a set of much more right-wing news outlets if you asked General Pinochett to take over as information minister.

The bloke from across the pond speaks,and knows not what he says.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 12:41 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The bloke from across the pond speaks,and knows not what he says.

A general inabillity to string a thought process together without resorting to idiotic Ad Hominems that show the true depths of your ignorance, how I've missed you, AU, while talking to intelligent people. Truely, you have that certain nothing.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 2:14 PM

MALBADINLATIN

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The big 3 networks, especially NBC have lost 100's of thousands of viewers to cable, mostly Fox. Fox ratings are far dramatically higher than CNN & MSNBC combined...why? People like what they hear.

Thats retarded both philosophically and mathematically. Fox is the only state run tv network in the USA. The rest run the spectrum of moderatly-liberal-sensational-idiotic to stoopid-tabloid-idiotic.

I'm not being clear. So if there are 4 liberal conspiracy networks CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, HNN.
And 1 State Run Television network FOX.
Dems= 50% of population and Repugs= 50% of population.

So! Fox's ratings should be 4 times as high as the other network's ratings at all times. And they are a long way from that. So Fox really has low ratings compared to the market share they should have

If you're not on Malbadinlatin's side, you're with the terrorists.

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 3:18 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The bloke from across the pond speaks,and knows not what he says.
A general inabillity to string a thought process together without resorting to idiotic Ad Hominems that show the true depths of your ignorance, how I've missed you, AU, while talking to intelligent people. Truely, you have that certain nothing.

Seriously, the Left wing controls fully 3/4ths if not more of all the media in this country, and you have the nerve to claim otherwise. It's like trying to converse w/ a holocaust denier, so why should I waste time stating which is so clearly known and understood over here to a limey dork who simply hears what he wants to hear ?

Oh, I know....I don't have to.
Nevermind.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 4:40 PM

FLETCH2

Cit, what bwe are looking at here is a difference in perception. In the UK we never doubt that a newspaper or a TV channel reflects the business interests and political viewpoint of it's corporate owners. Further, since they are the ones that hire the journalists, and journalists like to eat, we also know that no journo is likely to upset his masters by writing a piece against the policy of the paper -- and even if they did no editor would ever print it. Consequently we don't view the political leanings of the journalists as having quite as much impact on the political stance of an outlet as the leanings of the editor and owner. We therefore disregard that as a factor.

When I came here I was told of the "liberal media conspiracy (tm)" and pointed at studies that show that something like 60% of journalists in the US are somewhat left of center, with only 10% or so attesting to be definately right of center (or something.) Of course *I* said that hardly matters, that the owners install editors and editors decide what appears on screen. I really doubt that Fox will ever do an in depth investigative report on Murdock's finances, that CNN will investigate Time-Warner or that NBC will go after GE irrespective of the public's "right to know" or the political leanings of their reporters.

However, the kinds of folks that will tell you of that "journalistic bias" study will completely discount any suggestion that an outlets owners have any effect on editorial policy. Apparently a journo earning maybe $100,000 a year can slip his political ideology into the American mainstream but someone like Rupert Murdock or Ted Turner just happen to have invested in media and... well their politics NEVER influence anything.

At least in England you know the Gruniad prints left wing rubbish, the Torygraph right wing rubbish and the Mail supplies sensational stories to PirateNews.

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 6:21 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Apparently a journo earning maybe $100,000 a year can slip his political ideology into the American mainstream but someone like Rupert Murdock or Ted Turner just happen to have invested in media and... well their politics NEVER influence anything.

Ted started CNN,and he's an admitted socialist, after all.

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:48 PM

There's at least a couple of things going on, Fletch2. The myth of the "liberal media conspiracy" is one of the bedrocks of the modern day American movement conservative (and I'm purposefully using the phrase "movement conservative" rather than "conservative"). Just look at the responses in this thread and you'll see that the myth is alive and well. John Dean, in his book Conservatives without Conscience, traces this back to Spiro Agnew and the start of the current generation of culture wars. Agnew, with the backing of Nixon, aggressively targeted the media in an effort to game the refs of the fourth estate. This tactic has proven to be quite effective over the years until we are reduced to the current state where journalists bend over backwards to present two sides of any debate no matter what the relative merits of each side.

The idea of a "liberal media conspiracy" also fits in quite well with the cult of persecution that exists among the movement conservative set. They absolutely need to believe that they are being persecuted because it provides them justification for the scorched earth politics that the Republican Party had engaged in up until the 2006 midterm elections.

Another thing that is going on is this childlike faith in the "free market" and trust in corporations and the inability to see exactly what you and Righteous9 talked about.

What's crystal clear to an outside observer is unfathomable for someone who is invested in the myth of the "liberal media conspiracy."

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Wednesday, July 25, 2007 11:42 PM

America loves a winner!

Funny how you over look the fact that up to 90% of the journalist are Left wingers, or admit to voting Democrat. But we're to believe w/ childlike faith that none of that in any way affects their 'professional' writing and reporting of the news?

Whan AlGore talks about " the debate is over", he more accurately would describing the Left's dominance in American news reporting, instead of the phoney climate change nonsense.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:57 AM

CREVANREAVER

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
It would be honest to say that Fox New...the actual news broadcasts, definitely have a traditional, conservative aura about them, but not as far to the right as the mainstream media has gone over the far edge left. Also the Fox News "analysis shows" present the most balanced discussions on TV. There is rarely any ganging up by one side, both sides are usually given equal time to speak their minds...as opposed to MSNBC or even NBC where usually ALL the guests are rabid liberals...spewing their venom as if it was a given fact...which it is to them and their tiny, tiny audience.

Right on every point. This libertarian appreciates FNC.

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 2:43 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
It would be honest to say that Fox New...the actual news broadcasts, definitely have a traditional, conservative aura about them, but not as far to the right as the mainstream media has gone over the far edge left. Also the Fox News "analysis shows" present the most balanced discussions on TV. There is rarely any ganging up by one side, both sides are usually given equal time to speak their minds...as opposed to MSNBC or even NBC where usually ALL the guests are rabid liberals...spewing their venom as if it was a given fact...which it is to them and their tiny, tiny audience.

Right on every point. This libertarian appreciates FNC.

Thanks CrevanReaver for your shiny acknowledgement of my post.

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 3:16 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Anyone who actually pays attention knows that Fox News just makes shit up.

They make stuff up? Why thats shocking. I mean nobody makes stuff up these days. Especially not left wing Bush-hating websites that certain folk take as gospel...like dailykos.com...

I can't believe it, surely you have an example...

Quote:

But it's the other example from that post, the one about Scooter Libby...The headline was, "Scooter Libby found not guilty of lying to FBI investigators." Nothing about the four guilty counts.

I watch nothing but Fox News and Drudge and I knew about the convictions right after they happened...lets see:

Quote:

I. Lewis 'Scooter' Libby Guilty on Four of Five Counts in CIA Leak Trial
Wednesday, March 07, 2007
By Sharon Kehnemui Liss, Fox News

and

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby Found Guilty On Four Counts
On Tuesday, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, former aide to Vice President Cheney, was found guilty on counts of perjury, lying to the FBI and obstructing an investigation into the leak of a CIA operative, Valerie Plame, and faces up to 25 years in prison

and

Libby Found Guilty in CIA Leak Trial
Tuesday, March 06, 2007
By MICHAEL J. SNIFFEN and MATT APUZZO, Associated Press Writers

Now I picked three articles out of about forty pages full of articles, transcripts (of TV or testimony) and commentary about Libby's conviction that comes up when you go to FoxNews and type in "Scooter Libby" "guilty".

Before you condemn Fox News you might actually want to check your sources. That's what millions of American viewers are doing every night when they pick Fox News over NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, and the Clinton News Network.

Maybe your problem is not that they are lying, maybe its just truth you don't want to hear or believe. You can't justify your irrational opinions, so instead you are demonizing the messenger.

There are people, some on this board, who would believe anything told to them as long as the messenger blamed the President. "President Bush and global warming has made the sky purple," says Dailykos...Soupcatcher runs outside, sees the blue sky and immediatley posts a comment about Bush conspiring with Soupcatcher's own eyes to make him think the sky is still blue when everyone knows he and global warming have made it purple.

H

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 5:21 AM

BARNSTORMER

Yes, but only in so far as "Pravda" being the russian word for Truth.

I used to watch CNN exclusively, until I got tired of hearing stuff out of Soledads and Miles's mouth that was so obviously untrue or slanted or selectively reported in such a way as to make it untrue.

I then started watching MSNBC. That did'nt last long (for the same reason only more blatant).

Up until then, I had stayed away from Fox news because I had been led to believe that Fox was nothing but a right wing Shill.

But after watching bits and pieces of it, I eventually stayed with Fox because it actually seemed to be reporting the news in such a way that I can make up my own mind on current events.

Thats the kind of news reporting I want. Just give me the facts and I'll make up my own damn mind.

And judging by the ratings of Fox news versus the other networks, it's obvious that the vast majority of the population agrees.

Am I a Lion?... No, I think I'ma tellin' the truth.

BarnStormer

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Cit, what bwe are looking at here is a difference in perception. In the UK we never doubt that a newspaper or a TV channel reflects the business interests and political viewpoint of it's corporate owners. Further, since they are the ones that hire the journalists, and journalists like to eat, we also know that no journo is likely to upset his masters by writing a piece against the policy of the paper -- and even if they did no editor would ever print it. Consequently we don't view the political leanings of the journalists as having quite as much impact on the political stance of an outlet as the leanings of the editor and owner. We therefore disregard that as a factor.

It's not just that though. The right wing slant to the Televised media is obvious, surely. You just have to watch it.

I say nothing about all American media, I don't read the newspapers, but I see a lot of the televised news. CNN seems to be herald as the tool of the left so often I find it funny that certain violent brain dead rednecks around these parts can't see the obvious rightwing slant.

But then, the people who can't see it are the same people that make threads like 'why the left is so dangerous', because of a comment by one guy that is part of a right of centre party who said nothing more than they've said themselves on occasion.

I guess that's why they're called 'white trash'

Quote:
At least in England you know the Gruniad prints left wing rubbish, the Torygraph right wing rubbish and the Mail supplies sensational stories to PirateNews.

And AURaptor channels Heinrich Himmler

...

Quote:
And judging by the ratings of Fox news versus the other networks, it's obvious that the vast majority of the population agrees.

The Sun has one of the highest circulations in Britain. The bias is so obvious they wouldn't be giving anything away by saying "Britain's most biased newspaper" on the adverts.

Funnily enough I've known Sun readers to espouse disbelief at the idea that the Sun is biased. Some people seem to see bias as a non-issue, when it's their bias.

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Seriously, the Left wing controls fully 3/4ths if not more of all the media in this country, and you have the nerve to claim otherwise. It's like trying to converse w/ a holocaust denier, so why should I waste time stating which is so clearly known and understood over here to a limey dork who simply hears what he wants to hear ?

Oh, I know....I don't have to.
Nevermind.

Some one, I say someone, has let the redneck outta da zoo again!

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:44 AM

Seriously HERO?

Millions of FOX viewers are first checking their sources? They are picking FOX because they are conciencious truth seekers who have weighed all the facts?

Strikingly dumb statement, and hardly reflected by of all things, the facts.

You must have heard about the Pew Research Study that showed Fox news viewers ranking near last on knowledge of national and international affairs, while daily show viewers ranked at the top - we are better informed by fake news...how sad is that.

I understand that the study was biased... as in no questions about the woman in Bermuda, Scott Peterson, Ward Churchil, Paris Hilton, Chappaquitick, so maybe FOX news will come out with a counter study based on the important issues.

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 7:46 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:

Seriously HERO?

Millions of FOX viewers are first checking their sources? They are picking FOX because they are conciencious truth seekers who have weighed all the facts?

What I said was that millions of Americans are going to Fox News directly to hear what Fox News has to say. They are not hearing what Fox News had to say from people like dailykos.com or other liberal anti-truth bomb throwers like PirateRants, MoveOn.org, Michael Moore, or the New York Times.

Quote:

we are better informed by fake news...how sad is that.

That...is a stunning admission.

I said before that perhaps your disagreement with Fox was that you were trying to blame the messanger for telling you news that not only do you not want to hear, you don't want anyone else to hear it either.

The truth is dangerous to your political position, therefore the network that does the best job of telling the truth is the one you dispise the most. It is also the most watched:

Quote:

Fox News continues to command a substantially higher number of viewers than both CNN and MSNBC. MSNBC trails behind, though its performance is consistent in the first six months of the year. Both Fox News and CNN saw a dip in viewers in May, 2007.
Source: Nielsen Media Research, used under license

Note: Prime time refers to 7 p.m. to 11 p.m.

Date Posted: July 6, 2007

Your suggestion that the most informed persons reject Fox in favor of fake news and primetime reality TV is flawed. No, more then flawed...it is perhaps the silliest thing you've said since the last silly thing you said. You are just a silly, sad, and pathetic fool watching the dancing monkeys and clapping your hands and we are all diminished by your contribution to the political dialogue.

No that too harsh. I like dancing monkeys too. And your not really a fool...since it seems you are choosing to be fooled. That just means your making poor decisions and we are all guilty of that from time to time. Do better. I suggest a couple weeks of truth and a week or two off the false news and see how you feel.

O'Reilly comes on at 8pm. You can still watch John Stewart's show at 11pm, I usually do...its funny (a bipartisan rip off of what Rush Limbaugh was doing in the early '90s).

H

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:59 AM

Just jumping in on my lunch break...

Since I'm guessing you didn't click the link, Hero, let me just hotlink the picture that I'm referring to:

What conceivable impression would you get if that flashed up on your television?

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 10:13 AM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Funny how you over look the fact that up to 90% of the journalist are Left wingers, or admit to voting Democrat. But we're to believe w/ childlike faith that none of that in any way affects their 'professional' writing and reporting of the news?

I think this is a question of experience. Where I come from the political and economic interests of the media owners definately DO effect the political leanings of their newspapers and TV stations. Nobody on either side of politics doubts that for a moment. Further editors are selected by the proprietor and tend to reflect his views. Now you may be a looney leftie journo but I would argue that if you pursued your political leanings in a way that upset your editor you would

1) not get your pieces printed/aired
2) probably not stay with that outlet long.

Note we are talking about journalists here not talking heads/pundits. They are deliberately employed to generate controversy or to give the illusion that you are "fair and ballanced" by having someone you can point at and say "look we tell both sides."

So no, in general the leanings of the journos dont have as much impact as the editorial policy/control of the paper.

There was one other tangential snippet, a secondary study to the "bias" study various people pointed me to. This looked at the political leanings of journalism students. I think the aim was to see if the "bias" was inherent or institutional ie where there thousands of talented right wing journo students who were frozen out of the media by the conspiracy?

The answer proved to be that the percentages seen in working professionals were consistant with those of new students. In addition the percentages reversed when you looked at young business students. If we assume that both groups have similar intelligence the conclusion seems to be that right wing students make a practical decision and realise their talents are better rewarded in comerce, while left wing students are idealists more wiling to "waste" themselves in journalism.

Twenty years down the road this means that most of those right wing students will be comfortable enough to drop $20,000 a plate at a Republican fundraiser which results in the Reps having more cash to buy paid advertising. This I would suggest probably balences things out.

I suppose we could institute a quota system for Journo students, pity SCOTUS thought educational quotas were wrong...

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 10:20 AM

America loves a winner!

So, Soup.... Do you come to the same conclusion with CNN when they 'accidentally' show a image of Cheney on screen with a large X over his face ? Where's the rightious indignation over that OBVIOUS intentional screw up?

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 10:45 AM

AURaptor, I'm not getting the equivalence between the two pictures that you think exists.

The Libby graphic is a clear example of Fox News bending reality into pretzels to spin the verdict as a positive for Libby, a high ranking administration official. They conveniently ignore the four guilty counts (including the most serious, guilty of obstructing a federal investigation) to report that Libby was found innocent. They don't identify that he was only found innocent of one out of five counts. They are technically accurate and intentionally misleading in the same way as my Pravda joke way back at the beginning of the thread. The goal is obviously to mislead their viewers about the Libby verdict.

Spit the hook.

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 3:30 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
AURaptor, I'm not getting the equivalence between the two pictures that you think exists.

The Libby graphic is a clear example of Fox News bending reality into pretzels to spin the verdict as a positive for Libby, a high ranking administration official. They conveniently ignore the four guilty counts (including the most serious, guilty of obstructing a federal investigation) to report that Libby was found innocent. They don't identify that he was only found innocent of one out of five counts. They are technically accurate and intentionally misleading in the same way as my Pravda joke way back at the beginning of the thread. The goal is obviously to mislead their viewers about the Libby verdict.

Spit the hook.

Of course you're not getting the equivalence per the pic I posted, because it debunks your sophomoric accusations toward FOX.

Actually, you're doing exactly what you accuse FOX of doing. Being technically accurate while misleading at the same time. How do you know there wasn't any other stills before or after the one posted, with them reporting the 4 counts guilty and then YOU just showed the 1 count where they report him NOT guilty ? I'm sorry, but your angle has no basis. FOX would only do themselves a disservice if they reported Libby innocent while the rest world undestood he had 4 other counts go aginst him. Your position is too absurd to be taken seriously.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 4:37 PM

AURaptor, why don't you go ahead and dig up video to back up your claim?

While you're at it I'll provide you with another link:
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/international_security
_bt/102.php?nid=&id=&pnt=102&lb=brusc
This is a study on misperceptions about the Iraq War. Interestingly enough (from the report), "The frequency of Americans’ misperceptions varies significantly depending on their source of news. The percentage of respondents who had one or more of the three misperceptions listed above is shown below."

None of the mainstream media outlets appear to be doing a stellar job (*eta: well, except for NPR), and Fox News viewers are the most uninformed. How unsurprising is that?

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:29 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
AURaptor, why don't you go ahead and dig up video to back up your claim?

While you're at it I'll provide you with another link:
http://www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/international_security
_bt/102.php?nid=&id=&pnt=102&lb=brusc
This is a study on misperceptions about the Iraq War. Interestingly enough (from the report), "The frequency of Americans’ misperceptions varies significantly depending on their source of news. The percentage of respondents who had one or more of the three misperceptions listed above is shown below."

None of the mainstream media outlets appear to be doing a stellar job (*eta: well, except for NPR), and Fox News viewers are the most uninformed. How unsurprising is that?

None of that is in the least bit relevent to your initial point, about FOX screwing up a couple of times in the graphics Dept., or you taking one still from a video out of context and blowing it up to a ficticious issue. Never mind that the study itself is flawed and woefully out of kilter w/ the facts. Furthermore, going to Iraq because of any ties it might have had w/ al Qaeda was never a primary reason for the war. So these questions are misleading and serve only to muddy up the issue.

WMD materials have been found in Iraq, just not to the extent which we were told existed. This isn't news to folks who watch FOX.

And that report is extremely out dated. Oct. of '03 ?? Please.

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 8:13 PM

You're not bringing anything to the table on this, AURaptor. When are you going to back up your claims? Maybe you have to wait until Rush Limbaugh has a show on this very topic so you know which talking points to use. Hopefully he'll do that show soon.

Any media organization can be expected to make mistakes. However, you would expect those mistakes to be random. Fox News makes mistakes that tilt in only one direction. Fox News consistently spins information to the benefit of the GOP. Fox News serves as the media outlet for the Republican Party.

Now I realize this goes against one of the sacred cows of movement conservatives so I understand why you are balking and asking me to support your claims for you. But you're an adult. Do your own research. You've made claims that you haven't backed up. Time to put up.

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Friday, July 27, 2007 1:09 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
You're not bringing anything to the table on this, AURaptor. When are you going to back up your claims? Maybe you have to wait until Rush Limbaugh has a show on this very topic so you know which talking points to use. Hopefully he'll do that show soon.

Any media organization can be expected to make mistakes. However, you would expect those mistakes to be random. Fox News makes mistakes that tilt in only one direction. Fox News consistently spins information to the benefit of the GOP. Fox News serves as the media outlet for the Republican Party.

Now I realize this goes against one of the sacred cows of movement conservatives so I understand why you are balking and asking me to support your claims for you. But you're an adult. Do your own research. You've made claims that you haven't backed up. Time to put up.

I've brought as much, if not more , than you. CNN only spins it's mistakes one way too, so I guess we're even on those points. Fact is, it's YOU who needs to back up your claims , not I. The burden of proof lies upon you. And your personal bias toward FOX isn't enough. Not by a long shot.

You keep trying to bash FOX when FOX isn't the issue here. FOX isn't part of any 'vast conservative conspiracy', it's just filling a void which the Left wing media has left wide open. That void of giving news with out the usual Left wing spin. Seems to do well in the ratings, but you don't want to discuss any of that. YOU just want to nit pick at trumped up misques and, per usual for the Left when they can't compete, fabricate some vast conspiracy at hand to try to discredit anyone you consider to be a rival. Instead of simply showing single still shots, why not back up your claims w/ links to full 10-15 minute video. Then all will be able to see if FOX only gave 'one side' of the story, or it's YOU who is cherry picking the parts ( Michael Moore style ) which support your preconceived agenda.

At least FOX never made deals w/ tyrants to spin their news ( Eason Jordan ) and down play the attrocities in order to gain favorable coverage. So spare me your phony indignation over what ever imagined crimes you accuse FOX.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, July 27, 2007 6:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
AURaptor, why don't you go ahead and dig up video to back up your claim?

It was and easy google search to do just that Soup, why weren't you able to? Here's a link with the video you requested:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/06/breaking-libby-guilty-on-four-of-f
ive-counts/

-----------------
"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie

"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert

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Friday, July 27, 2007 7:40 AM

Actually Auraptor, in the case I already previously mentioned, CNN made multiple mistakes regarding their coverage of Michael Moore's documentary SICKO. Funny that we only need to go back that far to refute your statement that CNN spins its mistakes one way.

CNN's initial reaction was to stand by almost all of their data. They recanted one false claim but held to all the others, until enough pressure mounted that a few days later they gave in on a second point. They outright said that Moore fudged facts, but when confronted Gupta instead held by his claim by saying that he and Moore used different sources. Never, even after admitting the facts were different rather than untrue, did Gupta recant his claim that Moore fudged the information.

Also, a funny little tidbit about that ---- when CNN showed the list straight from Moore's movie that put Cuba as 39'th behind the U.S. at 37th in health care, they cut off the bottom of Moore's list as if Moore hadn't shown it. Then Gupta said, "but hold on" and then pointed out that CUBA was 39'th in the same study Moore cited. Weird that they would go through the trouble to even obscure the fact that that list was in the movie in the first place. Was the info front and center? No. But why make it look like it hadn't even been there at all?

Not strange to you?

...........

Post edited to repair something I misremembered

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Friday, July 27, 2007 7:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Razza:
It was and easy google search to do just that Soup, why weren't you able to? Here's a link with the video you requested:

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/03/06/breaking-libby-guilty-on-four-of-f
ive-counts/

Nice find, Razza. The question you should be asking is why wasn't AURaptor able to find the video?

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Actually, you're doing exactly what you accuse FOX of doing. Being technically accurate while misleading at the same time. How do you know there wasn't any other stills before or after the one posted, with them reporting the 4 counts guilty and then YOU just showed the 1 count where they report him NOT guilty ? I'm sorry, but your angle has no basis. FOX would only do themselves a disservice if they reported Libby innocent while the rest world undestood he had 4 other counts go aginst him. Your position is too absurd to be taken seriously.

AURaptor was right that there was video that reported Libby guilty. So I'll modify my original claim by removing this sentence: "If all you listened to was Fox News, you'd think Libby was found not guilty of everything."

* edited to add: The commentary at the end of this video clip (from Keith Olbermann's show) is pretty much where I was trying to go:

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Friday, July 27, 2007 8:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
AURaptor was right that there was video that reported Libby guilty. So I'll modify my original claim by removing this sentence: "If all you listened to was Fox News, you'd think Libby was found not guilty of everything."

Wow! That's quite an admission on your part that your entire arguement was completely false. Very big of you to admit you were wrong and omit that statement from your assertions.

-----------------
"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie

"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert

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Friday, July 27, 2007 8:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Razza:
Wow! That's quite an admission on your part that your entire arguement was completely false. Very big of you to admit you were wrong and omit that statement from your assertions.

I'm not convinced that my "entire arguement was completely false." I still think the headline that Fox News put up was Pravda-esque (as we were taught to think of Pravda when I was growing up). What I did do was get sloppy and set myself up for an easy jujitsuing with that one line.

Yup. I made a mistake with that argument.

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Friday, July 27, 2007 8:42 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
I'm not convinced that my "entire arguement was completely false." I still think the headline that Fox News put up was Pravda-esque (as we were taught to think of Pravda when I was growing up). What I did do was get sloppy and set myself up for an easy jujitsuing with that one line.

Yup. I made a mistake with that argument.

You were jujitsued because the premise of your arguement is flawed. My understanding is that it is your belief that Fox News only reports one side of the story and does so with extreme bias in every case. I'm sure you also noticed that the video I linked to was actually somewhat supportive of your assertion that they are biased as the website pointed out that:

Quote:
...Fox news legal analyst Andrew Napolitano spins the verdict for the defense, arguing that there is a basis for Libby’s defense counsel to say the jury “misunderstood the nature of the charges” and was “hopelessly confused.”

It would have been smarter of me to post a couple of nano-second screen grabs from the video like these:

Instead of the full video link, much like you did with your original screen grab about Libby getting off. It's a misleading discussion technique which you have used to full effect in this entire thread. Unfortunately, it is also easily countered by simply pointing to the obvious.

*Edited to add:
Pravda would never have aired anything which countered the first statement! Sorry, again you are wrong, Fox News was not in the least bit Pravda-esque

-----------------
"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie

"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert

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Friday, July 27, 2007 8:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Razza:
Instead of the full video link, much like you did with your original screen grab about Libby getting off. It's a misleading discussion technique which you have used to full effect in this entire thread. Unfortunately, it is also easily countered by simply pointing to the obvious.

Which brings up an interesting question: how would you have gone about making the argument that Fox News is a GOP version of Pravda? (leaving aside whether or not you agree with the claim).

One of my goals for my time here in RWED is to improve my skills at argumentation for when I'm talking about things with my right-wing family members and friends. So what should I have done differently with my argument to be more effective?

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Friday, July 27, 2007 9:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Which brings up an interesting question: how would you have gone about making the argument that Fox News is a GOP version of Pravda? (leaving aside whether or not you agree with the claim).

One of my goals for my time here in RWED is to improve my skills at argumentation for when I'm talking about things with my right-wing family members and friends. So what should I have done differently with my argument to be more effective?

Well, I'm no discussion thread expert, but it would kind of depend on who your target audience is. If you are trying to convince people who are on the complete opposite end of the arguement from yourself you would obviously want to take a different approach than with someone who is "on the fence" so to speak. I would start by not being so absolute with your initial statement. Absolutes tend to divide and immediately put folks on the defensive. Once hunkered down in their position because of what is percevied as an attack they are unlikely to be convinced otherwise while in that frame of mind. They may in retrospect reconsider, but I think that is unlikely. I have been in many discussions with family members and friends who are on the opposite end of the political spectrum as myself, and I've found that calm, assured, and reasoned arguments are much more likely to convince than passionate, combative, and confontational ones.

We live in a political atmosphere today which thrives on the confrontational, however. It's makes for better headlines, sells more papers, and seems to be more interesting to watch. In the end though, it just divides us more deeply. Confrontational politics may raise more campaign money and bring more publicity for a candidate, but it also tends to have the net effect of making us all more closed minded. Afterall, its easy to just stop listening to that "right wing nut" Auraptor than to actually consider what he says and maybe find something you might agree with. No..No...much easier to turn the volume down and not bother thinking about it.

I've chimed in from time to time on these threads to say similar things, but I find it more and more difficult to make the effort. "What is the point?," I often ask myself. No one seems to be truly open minded in a discussion thread these days...No, No...much easier to just go find a funny video on YouTube and get a good laugh.

Wow, more philosophical than I meant to be...off to YouTube!

-----------------
"There is not such a cradle of democracy upon the earth as the Free Public Library, this republic of letters, where neither rank, office, nor wealth receives the slightest consideration."
---Andrew Carnegie

"Doing research on the Web is like using a library assembled piecemeal by pack rats and vandalized nightly."
---Roger Ebert

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Friday, July 27, 2007 10:02 AM

Thanks, Razza. I pretty much agree with everything you wrote and I want to add something from my own experience. Some of my family and friends, who fit the classic definition of RWAuthoritarian followers (as described by Bob Altemeyer in his work), see any admission of error as a sign of weakness. I come more from the philosophy of, "if you're not making mistakes you're not trying hard enough." That's a pretty fundamental disconnect.

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Friday, July 27, 2007 2:22 PM

America loves a winner!

Rightious9 - another false statement.

I never said that CNN spins things per Michael Moore. Quite the contrary, they nailed his lying ass for the fraud he really is. Gupta might not have said that Moore fudged the facts, but that's exactly what he did, whether Gupta stated as such or not.

Why is this so hard for you to follow??

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, July 28, 2007 2:14 AM

America loves a winner!

Thanks Razza! I think we all learned something from your input. FOX can be called on it's giving a positive spin for the Right, but I'd offer that's no more than what the rest of the channels do for the Left. That FOX doesn't parrot what CNN says gets picked up by folks who are use to hearing the news framed one way, and when they notice the difference, some are likely to yell 'foul'.

I kinda see FOX as playing Devil's advocate to the rest of the media. Where as the list of alphabet soup news organizations will offer a report one way, FOX dares to come out and say " oh, really? What if the facts conclude something eles ? " After a life time of hearing news givne by one side, I find it refreshing to hear another perspective.

Different ? Yes
Pravda or flat out shilling for the GOP ? Nope.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, July 28, 2007 5:52 AM