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Originally posted by Righteous9:
I'm sorry what?

which time was he right?

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Originally posted by Righteous9:
but he was wrong the first time about the quagmire and that more than a hundred and thirty lives spent deposing Saddam would have been too many?

or was he wrong later when he said everything was going to go smoothly?

Or is he wrong now when he says we have to continue to leave our soldiers in harms way even though the number of our sacrifice is over 3,000 now?

on edit --- did you watch the video? He said we shouldn't have gone into Bagdad

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Originally posted by Righteous9:
yeah, true.

His association with Haliburton grew a lot, and so have his stock options.

Are you saying that 10 years later, 3,000 american lives are not as important as they were then?

Are you saying that there were reasons before entering into the war of our choosing, which helped Cheney to revise his opinion that Iraq would become a quagmire? Because he did revise that opinion. And what pray tell, if there were reasons for this change, beyond the obvious conflict of interest, were they?

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


Screw Haliburton, you dumb fuck. I has to do w/ 9/11 and not sitting on our asses waiting for a corrupt U.N. to do its job when clearly it had every intention to NOT do its job. Only a dim whitted dumb fuck would think that Cheney simply changed his mind , concocted this whole story about needing to go into Iraq , despite the odds, all for the sake of gaining a few more bucks when the guy already has more than he could possible need in several life times. God damn you fucking conspiracy assholes.

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:


Screw Haliburton, you dumb fuck. I has to do w/ 9/11 and not sitting on our asses waiting for a corrupt U.N. to do its job when clearly it had every intention to NOT do its job. Only a dim whitted dumb fuck would think that Cheney simply changed his mind , concocted this whole story about needing to go into Iraq , despite the odds, all for the sake of gaining a few more bucks when the guy already has more than he could possible need in several life times. God damn you fucking conspiracy assholes.

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A well thought out and reasoned response, as usual.

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Cheney was right, though. We DIDN'T go in, and look where it got us. No where. Saddam still in power, the U.N. neutered, powerless and in bed w/ the corrupt dictator. Iraq a breeding gound for terrorist activity. Maybe not al Qaeda central, but certainly a friendly nation for any number of terrorist organizatoins.

We had 2x's the man power and equipment in place, and we balked at doing what everyone knew HAD to be done.

We gave peace a chance. And it failed.


This shouldn't be news to anyone, except those who choose to forget history.

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And since when has there ever been too much money for these people? That's what capitalism is all about isn't it? That's what drives everything.

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Auraptor-
Cheney was right, though. We DIDN'T go in, and look where it got us...

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...Iraq a breeding gound for terrorist activity. Maybe not al Qaeda central, but certainly a friendly nation for any number of terrorist organizatoins.*

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We gave peace a chance. And it failed.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

Screw Haliburton, you dumb fuck. I has to do w/ 9/11

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and not sitting on our asses waiting for a corrupt U.N. to do its job when clearly it had every intention to NOT do its job.

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Only a dim whitted dumb fuck would think that Cheney simply changed his mind , concocted this whole story about needing to go into Iraq , despite the odds, all for the sake of gaining a few more bucks when the guy already has more than he could possible need in several life times.

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God damn you fucking conspiracy assholes.

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Originally posted by Righteous9:
Really? my understanding is that Cheney's assets made exponential gains in the last 4 years.

But see, I thought your point was that we should have gone in and deposed Saddam in 1992 but instead we gave peace a chance, and look what happened...

9/11

which is, of course, and since this wasn't your point I'm sure you'll agree with me,

RETARDED

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Auraptor- You'd have to be deaf,dumb AND blind not to have suspected any al-Qaeda/ Saddam connection. But it never was a hard selling point for going INTO Iraq. So much for the 'infamous debunked' nonsense.

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Yeah, because the 'world order' we've had in the past century worked out SOOOO god damn well, didn't it ?

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thats precisely the point. it isn't meant to work out for me and you. its so the aristocratic elite can sit atop a global plantation of indentured servants, who are too stupid and dumbed down to know they're slaves, and to ignorant and naive to realize they're being systematically exterminated

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Originally posted by Righteous9:
They knew at the time they drummed up approval for our invasion that there was no Qaeda/saddam connection --- that it was a dead end...that Saddam didn't trust Al Qaeda.

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Originally posted by Phoenixship:
Auraptor, I think you should keep up with current events. Yes, things are changing, but not in the way you think. Bush's morally bankrupt, idiotic and continual failures are finally starting to pile up.

I don't believe conservatives are "bad" anymore the liberals "good." Unfortunately, your current representative in the White House is an unholy mixture of evil, dishonesty and incompetence. But I digress...

Your use of childish, angry profanity weakens your credibility.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

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Originally posted by Phoenixship:
Auraptor, I think you should keep up with current events. Yes, things are changing, but not in the way you think. Bush's morally bankrupt, idiotic and continual failures are finally starting to pile up.

I don't believe conservatives are "bad" anymore the liberals "good." Unfortunately, your current representative in the White House is an unholy mixture of evil, dishonesty and incompetence. But I digress...

Your use of childish, angry profanity weakens your credibility.

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The folks in the White House are anything but evil and dishonest. Talk about childish use of words. One thing I can't abide is when folks call that which isn't evil 'evil', for lack of anything else to say because they simply don't like the politics. Any rants I might have are due to the fact that there are too many myrmidons on here who simply react to things w/ out looking objectively. I also note how excessive profanity is 'ok' when those on the Left use it, but when anyone else pops off once in a while, it becomes an issue which weakens credability. I've tried being reasonable, for the most part, but there are times when I'm at wits end and fed up w/ some of the idiocy which I see here on a daily basis.

If only you'd hold the same standard for all.

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Originally posted by Righteous9:
What could have changed Dick's mind somewhere between 1994 and 2003 I wonder.

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Originally posted by Hero:

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Originally posted by Righteous9:
What could have changed Dick's mind somewhere between 1994 and 2003 I wonder.

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The Clinton Administration.

It is generally recognized that 1992-1994 was a time for great diplomatic opportunity in the Middle East. Clinton blew it, although the fault really lies with his inept Secretary of State and his lack of any real policy.

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Once you got to Iraq, took it over, and took down Saddam Hussein's government, then what are you going to put in it's place? That's a very volatile part of the world and if you take down the central government in Iraq, you can easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off. Part of it, the Syrians would like to have, to the west. Part of eastern Iraq, the Iranians would like to claim--fought over for 8 years. In the north you've got the Kurds. If the Kurds spin loose and join with the Kurds in Turkey, then you threaten the territorial integrity of Turkey. It's a quagmire.

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Auraptor-

The folks in the White House are anything but evil and dishonest. One thing I can't abide is when folks call that which isn't evil 'evil', for lack of anything else to say because they simply don't like the politics.

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
One thing I can't abide is when folks call that which isn't evil 'evil', for lack of anything else to say because they simply don't like the politics. "

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Originally posted by oldenglanddry:

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Originally posted by AURaptor:
One thing I can't abide is when folks call that which isn't evil 'evil', for lack of anything else to say because they simply don't like the politics. "

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Like for example your opinion of every Muslim and Socialist on the planet?
"Hello Pot? this is the Kettle, your black."

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Fremdfirma wrote:
Monday, August 13, 2007 11:44
Well, they've still got Bill-O the Oxy laden pillow, Rupert Murdoch and old smoking gun Will Kristol to fall back on, not to mention the mockingbird-shills... so I figure the right wing has prolly half a dozen brain cells left even now.

Of course, that's three less than before, so if anything they'll just get louder and even more incoherent, note the shrillness of our current crop of wingnuts here.

Call me cruel, but watching it come to clear to everyone ELSE on this board that these people really are what I have called em all along, under the masks which have finally come off.... has a certain satisfaction.

They. are. deranged. lunatics.
Ok ? we got that clear enough ?


-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it .

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Originally posted by antimason:
just as i suspected ... both parties are 'in on it'

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- "If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

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- "Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

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- "Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

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- "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

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- "I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

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rue wrote:
Bombing, of course, not a silly ground invasion to remove Hussein.

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rue wrote: All true. But by the US war of aggression on Iraq - when weapons inspectors were on the ground finding nothing BTW - it was found Hussein had secretly destroyed all but a handful of WMD, and the ones that were missed were old, degraded and useless.

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Well, the palaces part was true. The WMD part, as everyone found out later, was abandoned after Gulf War the First.

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If that's the intelligence the vp - no wait- the president released to you, you might think the same thing. Too bad they were lied to, instead of given the truth.

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Obviously, Kerry was acting on the information given him, by - who else - Cheney. Wait, I think it's supposed to be Bush.

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Clinton says Saddam has WMD, so we should only bomb?? Here I thought Bush lied about WMD! I'm confused. If Clinton says it, it's true, but if Bush says it, it's a lie ??

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Saddam wasn't supposed to 'secretly' destroy ANYTHING. ... or at least be able to show how/when such destruction was done.

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Their word was worth nothing, so the search for WMD had to continue.

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Iraq didn't (live up to its end of the bargain).

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(The WMD part, as everyone found out later, was abandoned after Gulf War the First.) We don't know that. We can't know that, because of all the secrecy that Saddam engaged in.

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Congressional leaders had more than enough intel ... the lie here is that the Senate was told ONLY what the President wanted them to hear, which is complete bunk.

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