Sad Story by GinoBiffaroni

Don't fall for this obvious Al Jazeera anti-America propaganda bullshit. It's as fabricated as the Baghdad Diarist's Journal that has just been admitted to as being totally bogus. Sorry bleeding hearts, best look for another sappy tree somewhere to hug.

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:14 AM

KOILA

*Shivers and cries*

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:29 AM

ZONER

not sure i trust the signal on your source but - aw jeez - do i doubt this stuff is happening - and all over (not just iraq)? - hell no.

please go to www.equalitynow.org
it's what joss would want.

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 2:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
When Rana Jalil, 38,

Has to be a phony story, else she'll get stoned. This sort of behaivor is frowned on by the Islamic types.

While this particular story is likely fabricated, the story has a true ring cause it sounds like the same story countless women have told throughout the history of the oldest profession.

This is not caused by the US invasion, its caused because sometimes life presents women with challenges and this is their answer...perhaps the only one they can think of that allows them to survive and provide for themselves and often their children.

You can't blame the US for a problem in humanity that has existed in every age and culture since the dawn of time. I suggest that American freedom, which promotes equal rights for women, has done more to combat this sort of situation then the stoning she'd face under Shariah Law.

H

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 3:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Don't fall for this obvious Al Jazeera anti-America propaganda bullshit.

Okay, try this...
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/06/24/prostitutes/index.h
tml

Still sad Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Don't fall for this obvious Al Jazeera anti-America propaganda bullshit.
Okay, try this...
http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/06/24/prostitutes/index.h
tml

Still sad Chrisisall

Okay, I read it. I'm not sure how I feel yet....article says Saddam publicly executed 200 prostitutes a year in Iraq...these girls have fled to Syria to do this work, and they're mostly children and spouses of ex-protected by Sadaam Sunnis from Fallujah. Frankly I'm astonished that this can be going on in Syria.

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 9:50 AM

I can't believe an international sex-slave trade still exists....or high stakes dog fighting...

Constantly astonished Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:00 AM

MALBADINLATIN

ooops

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I can't believe an international sex-slave trade still exists....or high stakes dog fighting...

Constantly astonished Chrisisall

Ok...we already knew about the rampant sex-slave trade in Thailand & Eastern Europe...now this too? Between THIS & the one-button internet filth flourishing out there, we really MUST consider than we ARE horribly flawed creatures, doomed as a species, and truly NOT worthy to continue as the dominant life form on the Earth.

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
we really MUST consider than we ARE horribly flawed creatures, doomed as a species, and truly NOT worthy to continue as the dominant life form on the Earth.

Or that we're all just really horny, not getting enough, and choosing our crazy behaviour to sublimate.

Chrisisall

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 10:53 AM

KANEMAN

"The US invasion and the sectarian war have
created thousands of widows in Iraq
When Rana Jalil, 38, lost her husband in an explosion in Baghdad last year, she could never have imagined becoming a prostitute in order to feed her children."

Can't she have her vagina pulled out for this? Don't those camel-jockeys cut off peoples hands and shit for stealing? Not to mention this story reeks more than Ginobiffaroni's feet.....I smell an agenda here. Gold bond anyone?

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Thursday, August 16, 2007 11:16 AM

My point has been backed up

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Saturday, August 18, 2007 3:16 PM

many have been critical of news story's from Al-Jazeera, but I think they are par with BBC which style they seem to emulate.

Just read another story about Israel, and not seeing any conflicts or bias

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/8606B5EE-86E8-40B9-82D9-83F783A
4F0D5.htm

Now, I'll cut and paste the article for those Americans living in a free society afraid to wind up on a list if they follow the link :

Holocaust victims living in poverty
By Jacky Rowland

Click here to watch Jacky Rowland's report on the
Holocaust survivors' call for more support

The Israeli government has been criticised for "severe shortcomings" in its treatment of elderly holocaust survivors.

A report from the state comptroller's office blamed red tape for preventing effective assistance being provided and urged action to help the ageing victims.

Leopold Rosen measures the world by the pipe that connects him to his oxygen machine. He suffers from several chest complaints dating back to when he hid from the Nazis in a forest in Poland.

The German government pays him compensation every month and he gets a small pension from Israel, but he can barely pay for both his drugs and his food.

"I was born of the 5th of June, 1922. Do I have time to wait for help from the government? There are a lot of people in the same position. They don't have time to wait," he told Al Jazeera.

Holocaust survivors have been trying to embarrass the Israeli government into action.

At a recent event, protesters wore symbols from the Nazi-era to drive home their point.

There are about one quarter of a million Holocaust survivors in Israel and official figures say that one in three of them live below the poverty line.

Dignity

"We don't need any charity. We need for people to live at the end of their life with some kind of dignity," Colette Avital, the deputy speaker of the Knesset, said.

"Even though the problem was not caused by the state of Israel, the state bears a responsibility to its citizens."
"Even though the problem was not caused by the state of Israel, the state bears a responsibility to its citizens"

Colette Avital, deputy speaker
of the Knesset
In many ways the experience of the Holocaust defines the state of Israel but until now there has never been a specific government allowance for survivors. That is something the government says it has been trying to address.

The first problem they encountered was that there was no real definition of a Holocaust survivor. So ministers commissioned a report which found that the state needed to set aside hundreds of millions of dollars to help them.

"It's clear that if it rolls out over a few years, thousands of them will pass away," Isaac Herzog, Israeli welfare minister, said as the government continued negotiations with survivors' groups over plans to increase welfare payments.

"So our intention as a government, is to award a stipend of the highest level as soon as possible to the oldest echelon, that is 80 years or older," he said.

Holocaust survivors occupy a unique position in Israeli society so the government is under particular pressure to help them before time runs out.

Another sad yet true story, with all the money spent on arms in that country ( American money for a large part )
They seem to be lacking in other areas, which really conflicts with what they say they are all about.

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Saturday, August 18, 2007 5:31 PM

Don't I know it, and Congress just approved sending 30 BILLION of our tax money to em to buy more weapons with..

It's insane, is what it is.

They've become the monster that once chewed upon them... some of my allies are current and former refuseniks.

-F

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Saturday, August 18, 2007 11:40 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK

I think I saw this story on Lifetime last week. Boy, was it a real tear jerker....

Quote:
many have been critical of news story's from Al-Jazeera, but I think they are par with BBC which style they seem to emulate.

Sure... propoganda emulating propoganda, which had originally emulated propoganda.

Does anybody still even believe anything they see on the news? People should really take a few film classes and learn how big media manipulates the will of the sheep through their storytelling and careful manipulation of the facts....

Do I doubt that this scenario and others like it happen? Not at all.....

But this is one of the few cases where I'm going to have to support Hero and Jongs 100%.... This is pure anti-American bullshit and I won't give it another second of my time. Ask the women over there who have been raped and stoned to death for thousands of years before America's meddling and imperialism just how different their lives are today than they were yesterday.

Shit like this is what's going to make us nothing more than a seat at the UN table. Don't be a hater because you want what I got. Make yourself better and get it yourself....

And for [insert your god here]'s sake, if you're an American, stop hating yourself and your country. We are still great and have the ability to be the great nation we are capable of being. Certain individuals need to be purged is all, and remember, just because it was a Rethug that got us into this shit doesn't mean that the answer in 2008 is a Democrat.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Sunday, August 19, 2007 1:32 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Where's a good Companion Guild when you really need one ?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, August 20, 2007 4:46 PM

KOILA

I saw something horrible last night on the news last night, it talked about how there are those in China who take 5-6-7 year old girls, starve them and put them in a boxing ring to fight, only after they fight do they get food.

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Monday, August 20, 2007 6:27 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by koila:
I saw something horrible last night on the news last night, it talked about how there are those in China who take 5-6-7 year old girls, starve them and put them in a boxing ring to fight, only after they fight do they get food.

Do you have a link ? looked but couldn't find anything about this ?

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 1:49 AM

KOILA

I think it was on CTV, I'm not sure, my husband doesn't remember. I'll look for it for you.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by koila:
I saw something horrible last night on the news last night, it talked about how there are those in China who take 5-6-7 year old girls, starve them and put them in a boxing ring to fight, only after they fight do they get food.

Hush!, please....don't give Michael Vick any new ideas.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 4:48 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Now, I'll cut and paste the article for those Americans living in a free society afraid to wind up on a list if they follow the link :

Yeah, but you probably ignored the Editorial that called all good Muslims to finish the job the Nazis started.

H

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 5:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Now, I'll cut and paste the article for those Americans living in a free society afraid to wind up on a list if they follow the link :

Yeah, but you probably ignored the Editorial that called all good Muslims to finish the job the Nazis started.

H

Wow, getting all lined up for that State department job hero... wait that was another thread...

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 7:10 AM

Well golly gee, there's people who don't like a country who steals their land, slaughters arabic people, and hides behind the skirts of the USA whenever it gets too hot for em, while engaging us as their proxy...

Hmm, who'da thunk it ?

Dude, between AIPAC, COMVERSE, AMDOCS, Pollard, Liberty, Lavon, Ecstacy, Pan-am, and all the rest of the crap these berks have pulled *here*, a substantial amount of *americans* are saying exactly the same thing.

I do not agree with them, anymore than I blame all Christians for assmunches like Dobson and Robertson - but I do view someone of that belief with suspicion, as I do Christians, because of the tacit approval and acceptance of such folk within that belief, show me a widespread and overwhelming rejection and repudation of Christian hatemongers, and maybe that suspicion would ease up... same with other beliefs.

I think it's stupid to even make it a religious issue on either side, this is a state and it's apparatus acting like jackasses under the cover of religion and then hiding behind a long past history of oppression to play the victim, much the same fashion as a crack dealer who murders a rival dealer often starts throwing the race card when it comes to trial, it's bullshit.

Just because a state plays that game doesn't mean anyone else has to - not all Isrealis are Jews, and not all Jews condone what Isreal does, although that fact doesn't seem to be getting through some folks heads, probably cause they're busy ducking american bullets out of a american rifles, and american missles, fired from american attack choppers, fired and piloted by Isrealis, so, I rather doubt they give a fuck about OUR opinion on the matter, you know ?

A hate like that, in BOTH directions, don't deny it, isn't something you can sort out until the shooting stops, cause otherwise no one is going to listen to you.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 7:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Well golly gee, there's people who don't like a country who steals their land, slaughters arabic people, and hides behind the skirts of the USA whenever it gets too hot for em, while engaging us as their proxy...

Hmm, who'da thunk it ?

Dude, between AIPAC, COMVERSE, AMDOCS, Pollard, Liberty, Lavon, Ecstacy, Pan-am, and all the rest of the crap these berks have pulled *here*, a substantial amount of *americans* are saying exactly the same thing.

I do not agree with them, anymore than I blame all Christians for assmunches like Dobson and Robertson - but I do view someone of that belief with suspicion, as I do Christians, because of the tacit approval and acceptance of such folk within that belief, show me a widespread and overwhelming rejection and repudation of Christian hatemongers, and maybe that suspicion would ease up... same with other beliefs.

I think it's stupid to even make it a religious issue on either side, this is a state and it's apparatus acting like jackasses under the cover of religion and then hiding behind a long past history of oppression to play the victim, much the same fashion as a crack dealer who murders a rival dealer often starts throwing the race card when it comes to trial, it's bullshit.

Just because a state plays that game doesn't mean anyone else has to - not all Isrealis are Jews, and not all Jews condone what Isreal does, although that fact doesn't seem to be getting through some folks heads, probably cause they're busy ducking american bullets out of a american rifles, and american missles, fired from american attack choppers, fired and piloted by Isrealis, so, I rather doubt they give a fuck about OUR opinion on the matter, you know ?

A hate like that, in BOTH directions, don't deny it, isn't something you can sort out until the shooting stops, cause otherwise no one is going to listen to you.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

couldn't agree with you more,

but which side is in a better position to disengage ?

in the fight you start to feel that the first to back off is going to be wiped out

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:01 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by koila:
I saw something horrible last night on the news last night, it talked about how there are those in China who take 5-6-7 year old girls, starve them and put them in a boxing ring to fight, only after they fight do they get food.

Hush!, please....don't give Michael Vick any new ideas.

Living in Atlanta, that gave me a chuckle. Amazing ( and sick ) as it sounds, there are folks who still support Mike Vick. Even AFTER he's agreed to admit guilt.

About the only things worse than dog fighting Vick could have done was to sponser a kiddie fight club, or possibly kiddie porn.

Even then, some would still find a way to justify him being allowed to play football.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:07 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Wow, getting all lined up for that State department job hero... wait that was another thread...

Are you saying that AJ Network has NEVER editorialized about the destruction of Isreal?

Cause I'm pretty sure they have. Maybe your too busy comparing them to the BBC, and we all know how much the BBC loves America and Isreal.

H

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by koila:
I saw something horrible last night on the news last night, it talked about how there are those in China who take 5-6-7 year old girls, starve them and put them in a boxing ring to fight, only after they fight do they get food.

Like the sex slave trade, that's been around for a while (but not as long, obviously).

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:24 AM

Editorial......

Everyone has a opinion, Israel not being a valid state is one. Many around the world feel that its formation was the biggest post WW2 mistake made

They are not trying to pass it off as news,

Should I slam every newspaper that prints Ann Coulter as propaganda ?

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 9:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Editorial......

Everyone has a opinion, Israel not being a valid state is one.

Every Jew-hating Nazi neaderthal ya mean...right?

Quote:
Should I slam every newspaper that prints Ann Coulter as propaganda?

Yes...if they print it in the News section, and not in the editorial or op-ed pages.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Editorial......

Everyone has a opinion, Israel not being a valid state is one.
Every Jew-hating Nazi neaderthal ya mean...right?

Quote:
Should I slam every newspaper that prints Ann Coulter as propaganda?
Yes...if they print it in the News section, and not in the editorial or op-ed pages.

My grandparents on my mothers side were in German camps, ( Polish Military ), I do not consider myself a Jew Hater either, but I think creating Israel was a huge mistake. Hero was dismissing Al Jazera because of some of their Editorials as being a propaganda network, and as you and I agree editorials do not label a news source as propaganda, editing or reporting false news does

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:31 AM

Gino,

I didn't intend to imply that statement to you personally...sorry if it looked that way...more towards the Pirate News, Skinheads & Achminajhads of the world.

As far as Israel's creation "being a mistake"...I mean it's 50+years already...it's not debatable or relevant anymore. It just IS...and they have fought at least 6 wars to earn the right to keep it.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 10:55 AM

Quote:
but which side is in a better position to disengage ?

That's a big problem, cause Isreal has even less diplomatic credibility than WE do, and that's sayin something.

Mostly the problem is, a ceasefire is called, and the IDF doesn't even pause to reload, screaming all the while, when the return fire starts picking up again, how these pesky lesser people didn't lay down arms like they were told.

And every time the UN goes in to try and help hold a ceasefire, they've taken fire from, or been shelled, by th IDF often quite deliberately.

Journalists go in to bring it to the worlds attention, the IDF shoots em.

Are there going to be occasional zealots on either side who'll cap a round ? sure.
Is that really reason to throw out a ceasefire utterly ?

There's also the problem of Isreal dictating Palestines government to them in spite of what they want, and attempting to do so to other neighboring nations as well.
(Syria, for example)

Imma take some flak for sayin it so, but the painful fact is that Isreal wants peace with the rest of the middle east about as much, and in the same way, as Hitler wanted peace with europe.

They've *become* the very monster they once fled, and Palestine looks like 1940's warsaw, with ghettos and refugee camps that with even the smallest further push, could turn into worse.

I don't begrudge their right to exist, even if we did steal other peoples land and give it to them, I begrude them pillaging more from the people that initially gave them sanctuary all throughout history all the way back to the Medina Compact.

Those "six wars" you mention Jong, were mostly conflicts of conquest and attempts to take more territory by force - there's no "right" about that.

It's wrong, and imma call it wrong, be offended if ya like - it's about time folks called em on this shit, they've been hiding behind that whole oppressed bullshit for far too long.

Just ponder what our response would be if Mexico started forcibly colonising Texas on us, and you might just understand a little bit.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Gino,

I didn't intend to imply that statement to you personally...sorry if it looked that way...more towards the Pirate News, Skinheads & Achminajhads of the world.

As far as Israel's creation "being a mistake"...I mean it's 50+years already...it's not debatable or relevant anymore. It just IS...and they have fought at least 6 wars to earn the right to keep it.

Problem is any solution has to look at some of the injustice caused by that mistake, perhaps the mistake has to at least be acknowledged, something our civilization is not good at.

As Versailles caused WW2, Israel has been the core of nearly every conflict in that region since its inception, a two state solution will not work when one of those states exists only in name, with all the control to the other. And in addition any long term solution must have these people standing on their own, neither would survive without foreign aid at the moment...

Another source of conflict is water, Israel uses something like %200 more per person than its neighbors ( I could go looking for the numbers if you like ) and have in the past used military force to stop irrigation projects in neighboring countrys to protect their monopoly.

If winning war gives you the right to exist, why prop up one side of that fight. In 73 the Israeli airforce suffered %180 losses in aircraft, without aid from the US they likely would have lost, thereby validating the Palestian position ?.....
I don't think so, a way has to be found for them to live in one country. To achieve that both side will have to cave alot...

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 11:05 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Just ponder what our response would be if Mexico started forcibly colonising Texas on us, and you might just understand a little bit.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

More like Europe handing New Jersey over to become the homeland of the scientogists, and they then start to force out anyone who disagreed and started a massive scientogist immrigration policy to fill the houses of the people they just drove out.....

Then they start pissing off the neighbors

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:46 PM

Funny that this was on my mind today - I spotted a totally awesome peace overture that come from a direction most unexpected....

===============
Original URL -
http://haaretz.com/hasen/spages/895893.html

Jewish-Hawaiian surfing guru donates surfboards to Gazans
Last update - 17:05 21/08/2007
By The Associated Press

An 86-year-old Jewish surfing guru from Hawaii donated on Tuesday 12 surfboards to Gaza's small surfing community, in a gesture he hoped would get Israelis and Palestinians catching the same peace wave.

"God will surf with the devil, if the waves are good," retired doctor Dorian Paskowitz said Tuesday. "When a surfer sees another surfer with a board, he can't help but say something that brings them together."

Paskowitz emerged shirtless at the Israel-Gaza crossing after handing over the dozen boards to Gazan surfers waiting on the other side. He said he was spurred into action after reading a story about two Gaza surfers who couldn't enjoy the wild waves off the coast because they had only one board to share between them.

Arthur Rashkovan, a 28-year-old surfer from Tel Aviv, said Paskowitz's project was part of a larger effort called Surfing for Peace, aimed at bringing Middle East surfers closer together. He said eight-time world surfing champion Kelly Slater, who is of Syrian descent, is expected to arrive in Israel in October to take part in the drive.

Paskowitz, whom Rashkovan called a 'guru' to Israeli surfers, has surfed in Israel several times over the past five decades.

Paskowitz, a father of nine, served in the Navy during World War II, practiced family medicine for more than half a century and has published books on surfing and health. He said he's surfed for 75 years, in locations all over the world, and ranks the waves off the coasts of Israel and Gaza as among the world's best.

"It's really quite remarkable how good they are for modern surfing," he said.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 2:56 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Those "six wars" you mention Jong, were mostly conflicts of conquest and attempts to take more territory by force - there's no "right" about that.

Oh how you've been poorly educated about Israel, oh self-proclaimed resident historian.
2 biggest "wars"...1967 Six Day War : Israel was sneak-attacked by forces of UAR...the short-lived alliance of Egypt, Syria, Lebanon etc. Moshe Dyan & Co. completely surrounded all the attacking forces...could have wiped them all out of existence but didn't out of mercy. Wouldn't / shouldn't have been countries called Egypt, Syria etc by all rights after their un-provoked agression and sneak attack against Israel. Jump ahead 6 years to the Yom Kippor War of 1973...AGAIN ISRAEL was SNEAK ATTACKED by Egypt and Arab allies...on their highest holiest Holiday ..(nice touch, Arab scum )....Once again Israel, this time with Sharon et al, whipped those cowardly women-killers in no time, and again had them completely at their mercy...and once again Israel let them all live and slither away on their bellies back to home so they could beat their wives and rape their daughters out of their bitter frustration at being inferior human beings and seeing all their comrades die at the hands of the dreaded JEW.... Israel did occupy add'l lands after that...only as a result of those 2 WARS STARTED BY ARAB COWARDS...forcing Israel to improve their overall defenses for their citizens...to GUARD AGAINST FUTURE UN-PROVOKED SNEAK ATTACKS BY THE VASTLY-SUPERIOR FORCES & VASTLY SUPERIOR RESOURCED ARAB dictatorships and slave-states. It was like NY, Mass, Penna, Md, Va, NJ, Georgia all attacking Delaware for Christ sakes...and all Israel ever kept for it's un-asked-for troubles was the boardwalk in Atlantic City. ...And prior to all of this they had to originally fight against Great Britain, Egypt, etc in their mini wars of post UN ratification of statehood...circa 1947, 1948, and 1949... because some folks basically just couldn't handle it. I don't personally understand all the hatred towards Israel from America...our 2 countries have the same basics...freedom, democracy, women's rights, etc etc...what Arab country has that? I just think it's good 'ole fashioned Jew hatred...plenty of that here in USA during WWII...plenty of folks just adored what the Nazis and just about everybody else did to Jews all over Europe and the Balkans....fun times for the pyschopathic, illiterate, bad-breathed mob of trogladytic neaderthals...and lots of folks today are jealous that they missed out on those cherished fun times.

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Tuesday, August 21, 2007 8:20 PM

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

You actually *bought* that line of crap ?
History ain't ever, never, ever just that black and white simple, and the turf tells the tale.

I dunno whether you're just trolling or really that gullible, and that's kinda sad, in it's own way, innit ?

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 1:31 AM

All facts butthead.....facts lived through & witnessed in my life....aka real history....and BTW, I wouldn't have written it if I didn't believe it....as opposed to you that I now don't believe to be honest and sincere.

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 2:16 AM

LEADB

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
You actually *bought* that line of crap ?
History ain't ever, never, ever just that black and white simple, and the turf tells the tale.

You seem to be indicating that Israel instigated aggressive wars for the purpose of claiming additional territory. Would you please cite references?

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 3:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
It was like NY, Mass, Penna, Md, Va, NJ, Georgia all attacking Delaware for Christ sakes...

Except Delaware is full of pansies...and lax corporation laws.

I'm just sayin...

H

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 3:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
It was like NY, Mass, Penna, Md, Va, NJ, Georgia all attacking Delaware for Christ sakes...

Except Delaware is full of pansies...and lax corporation laws.

I'm just sayin...H

And you say it so well! lol

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 10:06 AM

Leadb, just ask Ben-Gurion.. he wasn't shy about his aims, not one bit, and further leaders followed in his footsteps, in short they belive that they are Gods chosen, and that is THEIR land by right, and they mean to take it.

http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Famous-Zionist-Quotes/Story695
.html

You're very unlikely to find a non-partisan source, given how polarised the issue is, however, even pro-zionist orgs make no real secret of the intented agenda.

http://www.zionism-israel.com/maps/Israel_Maps.htm

They might be slicker about it now, but is, and always has been, their intent to take what they think God owes em, and woe unto them who stand in the way.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 2:47 PM

LEADB

I found the palastineremembered site to be a bit disjointed. However, it sheds some light on the '48 war, which, to be honest, I was not particularly aware. I didn't find much that made sense about the drivers for the '67 war, which is really what I had in mind when I asked the question (not being particularly aware of the '48).

So I went where you love to hate...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_day_war
Which, to summarize brutally:
Israel claimed to fear an imminent invasion to justify initiating the war against Egypt. Reading between the lines, it is entirely possible the Israeli government pushed the situation toward this end; yet retained 'plausible deny-ability'. Very interesting, certainly not a perspective I've heard before.

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 4:45 PM

Yeah, finding any honest answers to anything related to the whole mess is well nigh impossible, and history is never as clean or clear as some would paint it, specially when you got countless factions, even factions within factions, all with some kind of axe to grind.

The only realistic indicator is the tale of the turf, historical progression maps show a pretty obvious expansion, and in combination with the religious bent and aims of Zionist and Likud Party elements, it's pretty clear that a substantial portion of Isreals government wants that land and means to take it.

Conversely, the Arab folk feel somewhat betrayed, as prior to 1948, they had a long history of offering Jews sanctuary, pre-dating even the Medina Compact, and even from Christian persecutions and pogroms.... to see them in alliance with Christians and killing their people offends them on a deep cultural level cause they take the principle of hospitality and respect for it more seriously than we do - but come to cases in the present day, they're out of patience and would gleefully exterminate the entire nation, a lot of em.

There's no easy answers to be found, nor any innocent players in the game, not after so many years of brutal and bitter conflict marked by some of the ugliest atrocities since WWII by both sides... but in the end, that expansionist agenda is something no one wants to talk about, and no one wants to call them on - and I think it's well past time that someone did.

It's unacceptable, period... and hiding behind the whole were-so-oppressed card doesn't fly with me, not when 30 BILLION of our tax dollars is going into their military budget, nuh-uh.

You got any decent answers, feel free to share, cause I *sure* as hell don't, guy.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 5:54 PM

Another interesting thing to look at, not sure of the accuracy... although much of it did happen

look up google earth, someone put a template in of the location of all the settlements that the Israelis bulldozed from 1948-1960's

After of course they convinced the people living there to leave.....

Not really a looking for peace kind of action.

Arafat took alot of heat later on, making the right for those people and their decedents to move back a sticking point in negotiations and Israel flat out refused, while taking in Jewish immirgrants as quickly as they could...

Immirgration as a form of warfare...

Not since the Americans moved west

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:16 PM

AP Newswire, Warsaw, September 16, 1941.

No one seems to hear the cries from Warsaw enough to act, despite the reports that talk about imminent economic collapse, dangerous food shortages, total aid dependency and impending humanitarian disaster. Neither the cries nor the reports appear in the headlines or news alerts in our mainstream media. And, while the statistics make shocking reading when they do emerge, it is the cries that we should be hearing because they come from people like us--real flesh and blood people who bleed, feel pain and grieve. They are the cries that give rise to the statistics, the cries of Jews no less human and no less vulnerable than any one of us would be as prisoners of Germany’s merciless occupation.

For all the recent news about the infighting that has gripped internal Jewish politics, particularly between those the German authorities placed as puppet regimes to govern in the ghetto and the resistance fighters, there is no mistaking under whose suffocating matrix of control, the Jews are actually forced to live. Germany has threatened the Jews right to exist on their own land since it was created and it has no more disengaged from Warsaw than it has from Lotz or the other German controlled ghettos. Instead, Germany has made a prison of Warsaw and completely sealed it off from the rest of Poland and the outside world. Deeming it a place too dangerous to visit, Germany likes to portray the Jews as a violent people whose acts of resistance threaten Germany's existence and necessitate the punitive measures that the SS takes against them. However, according to international law, resistance is a legitimate response of an occupied people and collective punishment by an Occupying Power against a civilian population is prohibited. The outrage in all this is the world's acquiescence to Germany's suppression of the Jews and the oppressive force it uses to reduce them to a sub-human existence. This cuts to the core of our humanity and it is simply not enough to say, "there but for the grace of God go I".

Grim as the facts and figures are, they can never make us feel the agony of the mother who does not have a grain of rice left to feed her starving children, the desperation of the father who cannot get his sick child through the closed border crossing for treatment in Egypt, the terror of the child who wets the bed every night wondering if the soldiers will come again to ransack the house, the constant fear of schoolchildren knowing that even school is no haven from soldiers' bullets and mortar fire, the despairing distress of families who are not even given time to save their belongings as tanks come to tear down their homes, the desolation of thousands of people with no jobs to go to, the helplessness of thousands more who have received no wages for months and the wretchedness of the starving families who depend on the jobless and the unpaid. An entire population is in shut down--more than a million stories of agonising pain and overwhelming grief. But, no one is hearing the cries.

The shortages are getting worse by the day. Food is running out, fuel is running out, medicines are running out. There has been almost no electricity since Germany shut down the Warsaw ghetto’s only power source. Without electricity, water cannot be pumped. Without fuel, sewage cannot be pumped and the sewage is spilling out onto the streets contaminating the meagre water supplies left. The stench of open sewage hangs over every neighbourhood increasing the risk of disease and contagion. Running water is a luxury few have now, most having to queue to buy it. Children go out with plastic bottles and buckets to get their rations of water when and if supplies arrive. There is no refrigeration for fresh foods and in any case no fresh food is available. Even a staple like wheat is running out as the 600 tons of wheat needed daily is not getting through the SS controlled commercial crossing gate. Wherever one looks, there are faces of despair, but the very human cries from the depths of all this misery are not being heard.

Hospitals are overflowing with wounded people from Germany’s aerial attacks and mortar shelling. Operating equipment is unusable as generators can no longer run without fuel. There are no medicines for the heart patients, diabetics, cancer sufferers and so many others. Doctors, nurses and health care workers are stretched to the limit trying to save lives and stop the pain when their own situations are desperate at home. Essential services can no longer cope with the demand. People are dying in their homes because they cannot get critical health care. Children are literally wasting away from malnutrition as they try to survive on a daily diet of bread and tea. Extreme hunger has driven many to scavenging the rubbish tips to find what they can to feed their families. And everywhere one looks, the greyness of dying has dulled the lifeblood of the people and still no one hears the cries of the sick and the wounded, the starving and the homeless and the keening sounds of people mourning their dead.

The list of impossible deprivations is about as awful as anyone wants to imagine. And with that come the daily, even hourly humiliations and indignities as Jews are pushed, prodded and targeted by Germany’s soldiers, bombs, tanks, gun ships, warplanes and armed helicopters--an awesome military line-up against a population that has nothing even comparable to fight back. This tiny teeming piece of Jewish land has been reduced to a gigantic penitentiary in which the entire one and a half million Jews is permanently incarcerated. And, it is in this violent unforgiving world that Germany continues to indiscriminately punish the people, their cries only muffled by the firing of mortar shells and the explosion of bombs dropped from the sky.

Amidst all this chaos, the effects of the sanctions are painfully obvious. One by one, factories and businesses have closed, government services have folded and jobs have become non-existent. So draconian are the sanctions and closures that the Jews in Warsaw are likely to become one hundred per cent aid-dependent indefinitely. It is almost impossible now for an economy that had shown some promise before the imposition of sanctions, to recover. The lush market gardens that produced an abundance of fruit and vegetables lie dry and fallow without water while those first crops intended for export markets ended up rotting on trucks as they waited in long queues for clearance to leave the ghetto, and none ever did. Nothing can get into the ghetto either except for the most basic food aid, forcing many factories, unable to produce without the necessary materials, to shut their doors. Without supplies, businesses have also been forced to close, plunging both shop and factory owners into penury along with the rest of the population.

The deliberate ruination of the Jewish economy and the gradual disintegration of their society are entirely man-made. As the eye takes in the bombarded landscape, it is hard to imagine that the old Warsaw was once a wealthy and important trading place where proud and dignified people welcomed travellers who came by land and sea. It is hard to imagine that its capital--Warsaw City--was really once a beautiful metropolis with wide roads and parks, swaying palm trees and an expansive seascape. Over the years, hospitals, universities, schools and municipal council buildings have added a modern layer to one of the world's oldest cities, developing and expanding despite Germany's occupation. But all that has been destroyed and nobody seems to care what will happen to the shadows of people merging into the rubble. The worst of it is that Germany is supported - even praised - for what it is doing in the name of security when by any other name it is purely and simply ethnic cleansing. Even those who resist, the students who formed the White Rose Movement for example, are not seen as legitimate resisters to an occupying force, but terrorists that must be exterminated. And with every moment of our silence, we acquiesce and give support to the atrocities that are being committed in our name.

As the siege on the Jew’s life in the Warsaw ghetto tightens further, nobody recalls the ethnic cleansing that forced these people to leave their homes and businesses to live in this over-populated place only to have their homes and businesses confiscated, nobody asks what Germany plans to do with the Jews. For more than a year, various bodies have warned about the imminent collapse of the ghetto’s economy and social order. The list is formidable--the World Bank, Oxfam, UNRWA, CARE International, the World Food Program, B'Tselem, World Vision, UNOCHA, Amnesty International, ECOSOC to name a few, but nothing has been done other than to provide basic food aid. Germany, on the other hand, has only increased the pressure by refusing to open border crossings between the ghetto and the outside world, refusing the transfer of funds and monetary aid and refusing to allow international NGOs to operate their assistance programs in this ghetto. Its acts of violence have not ceased either. Rumours of a large-scale German military operation which were already circulating well before the resistance ousted the puppet regime forces in the ghetto, is more than likely still on the table. It will only be a matter of time before Germany will act to quell any eruption from this suffocating mass of humanity, no doubt citing a security threat as is Germany's wont. The action then is likely to be just as merciless as it was last year when Germany’s bombers strafed the ghetto landscape targeting everything in sight--cities, villages, farmlands, schools, hospitals, government buildings, roads, bridges and essential services and the civilian population that could find no refuge anywhere and could not even flee out of the walled ghetto.

Despite all the warnings and evidence on the ground, the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto continue to slide dangerously towards a humanitarian disaster and world governments have done absolutely nothing to stop it. There has not been a word of censure against Germany and the international community's craven silence will only embolden the Nazi state to continue its cruel, punitive actions against the Warsaw ghetto’s already traumatised and dying people. We can choose to hear their cries or ignore them, but we certainly cannot say that "we did not know".

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:17 PM