start writin' the obits now by NewOldBrownCoat

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Oh boy- did I misread the headline! For a moment I thought Bush had suddenly discovered the truth! I read it as "Bush offers Gonzales strong backstabbing".

My bad!

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 10:04 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...snort ... ha ha ha ha ha ha

Other than that I have nothing to add. Carry on, then.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 11:43 AM

DAYVE

The arrogance of these fine elected officials is truly mindboggling.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070320/fired-prosecutors

White House offers to let Congress interview aides on firings; Democrats call it 'meaningless'
LAURIE KELLMAN | AP | March 20, 2007 05:30 PM EST

WASHINGTON — The White House pushed back Tuesday against Democrats demanding answers on the firings of federal prosecutors, refusing to allow President Bush's top aides to testify publicly and under oath about their roles in the dismissals.

Democrats rejected the offer just as firmly. Said Patrick Leahy, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee: "Testimony should be on the record and under oath. That's the formula for true accountability."

Bush gave his embattled attorney general, Alberto Gonzales, a boost during an early morning call to his longtime friend and planned to end the day with a public statement in support of him.....

.....The Senate, meanwhile, voted to strip Gonzales of his authority to fill U.S. attorney vacancies without Senate confirmation. Democrats contend the Justice Department and White House purged eight federal prosecutors, some of whom were leading political corruption investigations, after a change in the Patriot Act gave Gonzales the new authority.

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Tuesday, March 20, 2007 1:31 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Do you recall Bush's "conversation" with the 9-11 Commision? It wasn't under oath, and he had to hold Cheney's hand.

So much for accountability!

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:07 AM

DAYVE

Does anyone else see this standoff between Bush and the congress as the beginning of the end? Kind of like a snowball rolling downhill?
The administration has been without oversight for so long that now they seem to feel invincible – to the point of arrogance. I suppose lots of people admire Bush’s stubborn, dig-in-his-heels attitude when it comes to questioning his authority, but the fact is the majority in congress seems to want to distance themselves from his stranglehold on all branches of government.

There will be plenty of backlash at the dems who want to pursue all perceived wrongdoings by the White House and it could hurt them politically, but playing politics to get to the truth of so many unanswered allegations of unethical practices by this administration, IMHO, would be well worth the risk.

A very interesting article from Mark Kleiman, at samefacts.com, helps explain the power of the congressional subpoena and shows how congress does have some leverage in the matter.

Here are a few excerpts from that article and a link to the full story as well.

What leverage do the Judiciary Committees have over the Administration with respect to the Overblown Personnel Matter? Why shouldn't Fred Fielding just stonewall to his heart's content?

Answer: a Congressional subpoena isn't a request, it's an order. (Sub poena: "under pain.") If the order is ignored, the Committee that issued the subpoena asks the parent body to vote a Contempt-of-Congress citation. Contempt of Congress is like contempt of court: defiance means jail. In principle, the Justice Department could refuse to prosecute but at that point even the Republicans in Congress would probably have reached the limits of their tolerance. In addition, either House of Congress has (though it seldom uses) the power to order its Sergeant-at-Arms to simply arrest anyone who defies a subpoena; that power, like civil contempt of court, is coercive rather than punitive. That is, confinement lasts only as long as defiance lasts.

If it looks as if there's going to be a subpoena battle, perhaps the Congressional Democrats might want to file Resolutions of Inquiry covering all of the white House and DoJ players now known to have been involved in the firing.

After the spectacle of the Clinton impeachment, my guess is that impeaching the President, even this President, would be unpopular with the voters. But I can't see any political downside to impeaching Karl Rove.

Footnote Of course there is one undoubtedly valid privilege against having to testify: the Fifth Amendment's guarantee against being forced to incriminate oneself. Rove, or whoever, could avoid testifying by claiming that privilege, though somehow I doubt they'd want to. But that applies only to testimony; someone can be forced to produce an incriminating document.

http://www.samefacts.com/archives/overblown_personnel_matter_/2007/03/
leverage.php

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Dayve:

The arrogance of these fine elected officials is truly mindboggling.

As Zoe said to Mal, " Mind bein' a little more specific there, sir?"

Both sides full of elected guys.

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 6:41 AM

Dayve,
I spoke too soon. Looks like you answered my question.

And this does look like a kind of brinksmanship, pushing us right to the edge of a Constitutional crisis.

But remember this: the Founding Fathers did not create the Presidency as a kind of 4 year, or 8 year, Kingship, where any One man got to have all the power. They had just fought a revolution against that, for the right of legislative democracy.
If, in the end, Congress does not prevail over the President, this country is lost.

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:03 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yep.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:12 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I suppose we're all on the same page with "House panel defies Bush, votes for subpoenas".

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Wednesday, March 21, 2007 11:00 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Do you recall Bush's "conversation" with the 9-11 Commision? It wasn't under oath, and he had to hold Cheney's hand.

So much for accountability!

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

Why should the Execuitive Branch be questioned under oath ? He wasn't on trial, so why treat him like he is ?

Seems the Dems don't have the stones to impeach the President, so they'll try anything and everything to draw out any non issue and turn it into a kangaroo court. That's leadership ? Not by a long shot.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 7:04 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Bush insists he supports "good man" Maliki

http://in.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idINIndia-29099020070822

Another one bites the dust ...

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
just saw the headline over on CNN: " Bush offers Gonzales strong backing."

Kinda like, "Brownie, you're doing a heckuva job."

Or, " Rumsfeld is a great Secretary of Defense."

It's over . The guy is toast.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:38 AM

Don't get ya hopes up. Remember, Gonzo ain't gone yet.

Meanwhile, I saw this over on CNN, but ya gotta remember, they're part of the Main Stream Liberal lefty pinko commie news media conspiracy:

( Edited somewhat)

U.S. officials rethink hopes for Iraq democracy

* Story Highlights
* Some U.S. officials lose optimism for political system in Iraq
* Government that simply functions would satisfy many
* Iraq lacks sovereignty over its own troops, intelligence
* "Democratic institutions not necessarily the way ahead," general says

* * * * *

Nightmarish political realities in Baghdad are prompting American officials to curb their vision for democracy in Iraq. Instead, the officials now say they are willing to settle for a government that functions and can bring security.

* * * * * *
Maj. Gen. Benjamin Mixon, commander of Task Force Lightning, also reflected a less lofty American goal for Iraq's future.

"I would describe it as leaving an effective government behind that can provide services to its people, and security. It needs to be an effective and functioning government that is really a partner with the United States and the rest of the world in this fight against the terrorists," said Mixon, who will not be perturbed if such goals are reached without democracy.

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 8:49 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

While noting that this thread was started March 20, 2007,( That's 5 months ago, for those of you playing along at home ) I wanted to add my 2 cents in.

Labor Day weekend seems to be the date where those working for the President have to either commit to staying the rest of term or pass in your resignation papers. Rove bailed before the date, so look for anyone else to do the same, or simply accept that they'll be here for the duration.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 9:38 AM

MAL4PREZ

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
While noting that this thread was started March 20, 2007,( That's 5 months ago, for those of you playing along at home )

Oh thanks - I didn't notice that!

I have to ask: re subpeonas, congress has to go through the justice department to enforce them... is that correct? But the whole problem is that the White House owns the DOJ.

What a nightmare. So much for balance.

Must also add: (singing) I'm proud to be a Vermontian, `cause Leahy's got some balls...

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 10:33 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Problem with that is USDOJ being the target and recipient of at least one themselves, and responding with an outright refusal to comply or enforce - which, given their foundation and history is not at all surprising.

Congress DOES have a goon squad for situations like this, legally - but in times gone it's become more of an honorary position than anything else and I am not sure it would be effective.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Capitol_Police

The problem was letting the mad dogs that comprise our alphabet agencies off the leash in the first place - none of em will roll on the others in a sort of jailhouse gentlemans agreement.

Were it me, I would deputize a bunch of recently discharged troops into the USCP with an oath to retain any secrets needful to ACTUAL national security, and then take the lot of em down to the alphabet agencies and turn the whole damn place over, through and through, and start locking bastards up for the crimes they have committed in our name - and do so with an automatic sunset proviso to the matter of one year, unamendable and further moratorium on such actions for another ten.

Call it the Spring Cleaning, initiative, if you will.

I'm sure we could kick out a bunch of folks on minor drug possession and other bullshit charges to make room for em.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 12:25 PM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Call it the Spring Cleaning, initiative, if you will.

Yeah, and let's do this every Spring.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Wednesday, August 22, 2007 1:34 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Couldn't work, it'd become a political tool if they made it a regular thing, it'd have be a one time clean and flush, followed by actual oversight through (I would suggest) a sub-section of the GAO devoted to that purpose with at least one sitting and former judge who are constitutional law specialists in order to keep the leash firmly in hand - most of em should be disbanded, but there's a couple that would be useful enough to keep, having good intel is beneficial to honest diplomacy, if they stick to that instead of the monstrous things they've been doing instead of their jobs.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, August 27, 2007 2:33 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Welllll, it's official - he's gone, and good riddance.

I hesitate to think of what they'll try to replace him with, given that this is the regime that handed us the last two.

-F

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Monday, August 27, 2007 3:56 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

OH NO!!! WE get... SKELETOR!!!! (Chertoff)

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Always look upstream.

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Monday, August 27, 2007 6:42 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

In the statement Bush said he did a good job and is the best lawyer in all of America

You think he quit to start putting together a defense team ?

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Monday, August 27, 2007 6:46 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

And so now, after all this... Can Maliki be far behind?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Monday, August 27, 2007 7:48 AM

saw the news on Slate- they suggested that the timing is such that King George the 43rd can use a recess appointment to put anybody he wants, without confirmation. Considering that he's done that already elsewhere, watch out -- could happen. Karl Rove is looking for a job, isn't he?

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Monday, August 27, 2007 9:31 AM