REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

The Anti-Americans ( A hate/love relationship)

POSTED BY: GEEZER
UPDATED: Friday, August 31, 2007 13:59
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VIEWED: 1399
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Monday, August 27, 2007 5:26 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Anybody see this on "America At A Crossroads" om PBS tonight?

Pretty interesting stuff.

Please discuss.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:15 AM

KANEMAN


What is PBS

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 7:13 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


No. What did it say?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 7:43 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
What is PBS


Pure Bull Shite

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:32 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
What is PBS


Pure Bull Shite


Are you sure 'bout that? I always thought it stood for Politically Biased Slanderers....especially when I watched a bit on Election night in 2004 when Bill Moyers and guest were discussing at great length and detail how Bush ( IF HE DESIRED SO )could use the military to overthrow the Govt. if he lost the election. I expected that sort of nonsense from other sources, but PBS really went over the line of good taste and sanity with Moyers ranting out loud all his Bush phobias for voters to hear.

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:11 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!


Don't look at Bush ...

OOOhhh LOOK ! There !

A shiny object ...



***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:12 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
No. What did it say?




You can read about it and watch some clips here.
http://www.pbs.org/weta/crossroads/about/show_anti-americans.html

They visited England, France, and Poland.

The English and French folks they talked to knew quite a a bit less about Americans than I thought they would. At least around here we don't ALL eat Big Macs exclusively, and do know how to make a Hollandaise sauce. And I don't recall ever calling a French person a "stinkycheese".

The Poles seemed to like us a bit more, perhaps because they all apparently have relatives living in the States. They're interested in coming here to work for a while, if not to move permanently. They also have a strange affection for Cowboy Culture and country-western music.

I didn't care much for the Sept. 12, 2001 clip from the French comedy show Les Guignols De L’info (“The News Puppets”) showing a fake copy of the French newspaper Sporting News with a picture of the burning WTC and the caption "Allah 1, Jesus 0". Maybe some French folk are stinkycheeses, after all.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:37 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:


The Poles seemed to like us a bit more, perhaps because they all apparently have relatives living in the States. They're interested in coming here to work for a while, if not to move permanently. They also have a strange affection for Cowboy Culture and country-western music.

"Keep the Shiny side up"



I think you're overlooking the relationship Pope John Paul II had w/ Ronald Reagan, and how both assisted Lech Welesa and his trade union's anti-Soviet Union stance.

Lech Walesa on President Reagan -

"When talking about Ronald Reagan, I have to be personal. We in Poland took him so personally. Why? Because we owe him our liberty. This can’t be said often enough by people who lived under oppression for half a century, until communism fell in 1989.Poles fought for their freedom for so many years that they hold in special esteem those who backed them in their struggle. Support was the test of friendship. President Reagan was such a friend. His policy of aiding democratic movements in Central and Eastern Europe in the dark days of the Cold War meant a lot to us. We knew he believed in a few simple principles such as human rights, democracy and civil society. He was someone who was convinced that the citizen is not for the state, but vice-versa, and that freedom is an innate right. "

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:48 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


"When talking about Ronald Reagan, I have to be personal. We in Poland took him so personally. Why? Because we owe him our liberty.

Unlike the Present president, not EVERYTHING Reagan did was bad...

Tear down that wall Chrisisall

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 10:28 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Geezer:
do know how to make a Hollandaise sauce


A what kind of sauce. There's marinara sauce, pizza sauce, cranberry sauce, and barbeque sauce...what the hell is a Hollan and why would I make a sauce out of it.
Quote:


And I don't recall ever calling a French person a "stinkycheese".


I'd never call someone "stinkycheese". Only some pansy-assed French surrender-monkey would say something like that. No wait...the French are on our side now...noble folk, good and valuable allies one and all.

H

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 12:56 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:


"When talking about Ronald Reagan, I have to be personal. We in Poland took him so personally. Why? Because we owe him our liberty.

Unlike the Present president, not EVERYTHING Reagan did was bad...

Tear down that wall Chrisisall





Thought you'd like to see the entire tribute to Reagan from Walesa. http://www.tommyduggan.com/VP070204lech.html

Tear down this wall AURaptor


p.s. - and if it's Tuesday night, I'll be watching Eureka on Sci Fi channel.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 1:24 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Ah. I wish I had seen it.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 4:47 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by SignyM:
Ah. I wish I had seen it.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.



Check your local PBS website. It'll probably be around again.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, August 30, 2007 9:45 AM

CANTTAKESKY


I thought it was a very thought provoking program.

The French hate us, that wasn't surprising. What hit home for me was the comment from the Poles:

Why is it that the French, who openly hate America, can show up in America whenever they want and get automatic visas for 60 days or 90 days? But Poles, who are supportive of America, cannot get visas after jumping through hoops and standing in lines and paying $100 for the nonrefundable application fee?

Life is so unfair.

I think we should give automatic visas to countries in which reliable polls show a 75% support of America in the general population. Make the French pay $100 to apply to come here, and then laugh when we deny them the privilege.

Hehe. I can dream, can't I?

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Thursday, August 30, 2007 10:01 AM

KANEMAN


Did'nt I already post the Anti-French thread?

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Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:05 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
I thought it was a very thought provoking program.

The French hate us, that wasn't surprising. What hit home for me was the comment from the Poles:

Why is it that the French, who openly hate America, can show up in America whenever they want and get automatic visas for 60 days or 90 days? But Poles, who are supportive of America, cannot get visas after jumping through hoops and standing in lines and paying $100 for the nonrefundable application fee?

Life is so unfair.

I think we should give automatic visas to countries in which reliable polls show a 75% support of America in the general population. Make the French pay $100 to apply to come here, and then laugh when we deny them the privilege.

Hehe. I can dream, can't I?

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.




So if Americans wish to travel to country which oppose their foreign policy, they have to fork over $100 as well...

Fair Trade, could make travel expensive though, %75 would make you pay up even in Britain.





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Thursday, August 30, 2007 1:36 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
So if Americans wish to travel to country which oppose their foreign policy, they have to fork over $100 as well...

Yeah, we already pay $100 to visit most countries in the world. It's called a visa.

We just happen to have a reciprocal visa relationship with most western European countries--we don't charge them, they don't charge us. But given how much they hate us, maybe we should give those reciprocal visa relationships to other, more friendly countries.

Just a thought.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Thursday, August 30, 2007 2:54 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
So if Americans wish to travel to country which oppose their foreign policy, they have to fork over $100 as well...

Yeah, we already pay $100 to visit most countries in the world. It's called a visa.

We just happen to have a reciprocal visa relationship with most western European countries--we don't charge them, they don't charge us. But given how much they hate us, maybe we should give those reciprocal visa relationships to other, more friendly countries.

Just a thought.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.




here is the list of countries that require American citizens to obtain visas prior to arrival, issue a visa on arrival only under special circumstances & conditions which make it inadvisable to travel without a visa, or visa requirement cannot be determined: Abkhazia, Afghanistan, Algeria, Angola, Australia, Bangladesh, Belarus, Benin, Bhutan, Brazil, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Cape Verde Islands, Central African Republic, Chad, China, Congo (ROC), Congo (DRC), Gabon, Gambia, Ghana, Guinea (Republic), Guinea-Bissau, India, Iran, Iraq, Kazakhstan, Kenya, Kiribati, Korea (North), Laos, Liberia, Libya, Madagascar, Mali, Mauritania, Myanmar, Nagorno-Karabakh, Nauru, Nigeria, Pakistan, Paraguay, Puntland, Russia, Sao Tome & Principe, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Somaliland, South Ossetia, Sudan, Suriname, Syria, Tajikistan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Vietnam.

Your plan would add Canada, Europe minus Albania and Poland, Mexico, all of Central and South America to the list...


You have to remember, holding your government in contempt doesn't always mean holding it's people in contempt...

Just seems that way sometimes



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Thursday, August 30, 2007 8:46 PM

SOUPCATCHER


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
... Abkhazia ... Nagorno-Karabakh ... Puntland ... Somaliland ... South Ossetia ...


Damnit.

I thought I was doing pretty good on keeping up to date with modern geography but I didn't recognize these countries.

* edited to add: That's okay. After doing some quick surfing it appears that nobody else recognizes those countries either.

ba dum bum

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Friday, August 31, 2007 7:47 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Your plan would add Canada, Europe minus Albania and Poland, Mexico, all of Central and South America to the list...

I think you misunderstood my proposal. Instead of simply adding these countries to the list, I suggested exchanging these countries for other countries that are more supportive of America.

For example, let us go to Poland for free, and let the Poles come here for free. Then charge the French to come to the States, and we pay to go to France. Why? Cause the Poles like us and the French don't.

The most compelling arguments against my proposal are:
1. Americans don't want to go to Poland and those other countries. They want to go to France, West Europe, and the Americas.

2. People from countries that are not required to pay for visas to the USA are not likely to want to stay in the USA. The French hate us, so it is very likely they will return home after a short visit.

I could counter with an alternative proposal. Give the French, and whoever else, a survey to rate "How great is America" on a scale of 1 to 10. If the applicant rates America less than a 7, that person has to pay the $100 visa fee to visit our country.



Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Friday, August 31, 2007 8:23 AM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Your plan would add Canada, Europe minus Albania and Poland, Mexico, all of Central and South America to the list...

I think you misunderstood my proposal. Instead of simply adding these countries to the list, I suggested exchanging these countries for other countries that are more supportive of America.

For example, let us go to Poland for free, and let the Poles come here for free. Then charge the French to come to the States, and we pay to go to France. Why? Cause the Poles like us and the French don't.

The most compelling arguments against my proposal are:
1. Americans don't want to go to Poland and those other countries. They want to go to France, West Europe, and the Americas.

2. People from countries that are not required to pay for visas to the USA are not likely to want to stay in the USA. The French hate us, so it is very likely they will return home after a short visit.

I could counter with an alternative proposal. Give the French, and whoever else, a survey to rate "How great is America" on a scale of 1 to 10. If the applicant rates America less than a 7, that person has to pay the $100 visa fee to visit our country.



Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.



Yes, I understood you... but I suggested that if the reverse was true and if a American traveling to any country that has less than %75 support for your government... Americans would be paying that fee to travel almost anywhere. Including country's whose governments may be more supporting that the people who live there.

Your alternative proposal is interesting, perhaps the reverse could also be accomplished if Americans traveling abroad had to pass a general knowledge exam regarding the country they wished to visit. It very well could improve the standing of the US by containing the Ugly American once and for all.


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Friday, August 31, 2007 9:55 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
if a American traveling to any country that has less than %75 support for your government... Americans would be paying that fee to travel almost anywhere.

Hehe. I see what you mean. You're suggesting that there are so few countries where people actually like us that we would end up having to pay to visit just about anywhere.

I've traveled a great deal, and my experience is that MOST people like America a great deal. They don't like our govt but they like America (people, culture, etc.) So with my assumption that most folks like America, we would actually have more reciprocal visa relations.

Quote:

Your alternative proposal is interesting, perhaps the reverse could also be accomplished if Americans traveling abroad had to pass a general knowledge exam regarding the country they wished to visit.
Ooh. I like that.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Friday, August 31, 2007 1:59 PM

GINOBIFFARONI


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
Quote:

Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
if a American traveling to any country that has less than %75 support for your government... Americans would be paying that fee to travel almost anywhere.

Hehe. I see what you mean. You're suggesting that there are so few countries where people actually like us that we would end up having to pay to visit just about anywhere.

I've traveled a great deal, and my experience is that MOST people like America a great deal. They don't like our govt but they like America (people, culture, etc.) So with my assumption that most folks like America, we would actually have more reciprocal visa relations.

Quote:

Your alternative proposal is interesting, perhaps the reverse could also be accomplished if Americans traveling abroad had to pass a general knowledge exam regarding the country they wished to visit.
Ooh. I like that.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.




Once you sever your government from the regular people, the regular people for the most part are pretty cool.

That said I can agree with your point...


But I think we should all lock our political figures away out of sight where they would do less harm



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