marryourdaughter.org by fredgiblet

http://marryourdaughter.org/

Discuss.

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Friday, September 14, 2007 11:43 AM

Ack! Arrrrggg!!!! E-gads!
14 & 1/2? Ack! Arrrrgggg!!!! E-gads!
The prices aren't bad. Did I say that? What I mean is, I figured the price would be higher. Not that that makes it right; I just figured being wrong would be more expensive.

After the initial shock, I read a bit more about the site; it might be less bad than I first thought. I can only say, I sure as heck hope the women involved are getting some say in what happens.

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Friday, September 14, 2007 11:54 AM

Ewww. I read the testimonials. Scary.

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Friday, September 14, 2007 11:58 AM

SIMONWHO

First I read it as Marry Your Daughter.org, which is even more ewww.

Of course it's really a fun satire of Americans who keep holding up the Bible as an example of how one should live and the fixed point of morality. I guarantee they're getting plenty of proposals though.

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Friday, September 14, 2007 12:12 PM

http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/marryourdaughter.asp

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Sounds like that article about Afghanistan.... or was it India? Maybe Pakistan? Bangladesh? Somalia? One of those sick countries where they sell girl children for money. "Man sells daughter, 7, to pay gambling debt"

What I want to know is... when do they get to selling slaves and stoning the neighbors?
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, September 14, 2007 12:25 PM

REAVERMAN

Sick fucks. How in the hell is this BS still legal? This is like a child molester supermarket. How could anyone think that selling their 14,15 or 16 year old daughter to a man they've never met is okay?

The parents of those girls should be shot.

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"I refuse to submit,
To the god you say is kind.
I know what's right, and it is time,
It's time to fight, and free our minds!

Our spirits were forged in snow and ice,
To bend like steel forged over fire.
We were not made to bend like reed,
Or to turn the other cheek!"

- from the song "Thousand Years of Opression" by Amon Amarth

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Friday, September 14, 2007 1:12 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

This reads more like Sci-Fi than any real world I want to live in.

Courtney...."She got an A in Home Ec. and has read up on what else would be expected of her as a wife and is looking forward to it.

Courtney is 13
I got no words but sad and tragic.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, September 14, 2007 1:12 PM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

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Friday, September 14, 2007 1:16 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Thank our dear and fluffy lord....

If it's a hoax, and I truly hope it is, then *whew*!

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, September 14, 2007 1:21 PM

Wow, Gabriella is a good buy at only $19,995! My car was worth more than that.

Wait, Anna is only $3,995.

Hey, Ashlee is an adorable little thing, but I can't really afford her whole price.

Anyone want to go halfsies?

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Friday, September 14, 2007 2:32 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Wait, Anna is only $3,995.

While the urge for me to type in " I'd buy that for a $1" is strong, I simply can't. I won't. I'm above that....better than.

Still.....$3,995 is one hell of a bargin.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, September 14, 2007 2:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Still.....$3,995 is one hell of a bargin.

JC Penny quality for a Walmart price!

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 3:45 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/marryourdaughter.asp

Ok, hopefully; still, the guy maybe turning a nice profit here. Notice the 'ads by google' and the nature of the ads. This site might not be offering 'for real' what one might be looking for, but it has become a nice collection point for folks willing to pay to offer similar 'services'.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 4:41 AM

That depends on what you mean by “similar.” There are no lack of sites willing to put wealthy American men in contact with willing women from other countries, but I'm not sure that’s the same thing as human trafficking in the sex trade.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 4:48 AM

One could reasonably argue that marryOurDaughters site is putting wealthy American men in contact with willing women from America. Technically, would it be 'trafficking in the sex trade'? Honestly, don't know the laws that well. While this particular site might be a hoax, I'm not convinced that a site similar to it would be deemed to be illegal, as long as the woman (ok, often girls) are agreeable and of legal age to marry (at least in the state they happen to be in). So yes, similar.

(Note: I'm talking legally here, not ethically or morally; which I would still find such a site to likely be on the 'short side of'.)

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 5:06 AM

Well, thinking about it, now I’m not sure I think of this as human trafficking either, assuming that it was real. I was thinking when I first wrote this that it would be, but if everyone is in agreement of what is going on then I’m not sure that I would call it trafficking. I would still have a problem with some of the ages, but in some families girls do get married young and arranged marriages are sill common in some cultures. It may be rare in the US, but I was offered an arranged marriage once, so it’s not nonexistent, actually twice by some views. I can’t see that a service that provided girls for marriage to the highest bidder would appeal to many fathers seeking to marry his daughter, but any service that did would need to assure the service was providing prospective suitors who were in agreement and commitment to what was going on.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 5:15 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So hey Finn- when do we get to that discussion about American values? www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=30558 You were rather perturbed that Kucinich didn't support them- whatever values you think are American. Is freedom one of them?

I'm glad the site is fake BUT it also points out a real issue- according to many states, very young girls can marry with permission of the parent. It's the "bride price" that would prollu trip a bunch of laws and turn it into "human trafficking". But honestly, w/ that "bride price", if one could arrange a sotto voce transfer of money I'd bet the site could actually function. For a while, anyway.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 5:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So hey Finn- when do we get to that discussion about American values? You were rather perturbed that Kucinich didn't support them- whatever values you think are American. Is freedom one of them?

God, you have a one track mind.

And actually, as I remember it, what I was "perturbed" about was that he didn't support promoting them.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 5:25 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well, we finally get to a really interesting point... some place where we're not just trading insults... and then you disappear. And I'd still really like to know what you think are "American values" because I have a feeling this will be like our discussion of "patriotism": I might not "grok" what you think but I will kinda get the flavor.

HOw about I make a new thread called "American values"?

"he didn't support promoting them." Which are....??????
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 5:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I'm glad the site is fake BUT it also points out a real issue- according to many states, very young girls can marry with permission of the parent. It's the "bride price" that would prollu trip a bunch of laws and turn it into "human trafficking". But honestly, w/ that "bride price", if one could arrange a sotto voce transfer of money I'd bet the site could actually function. For a while, anyway.

I agree. The site as it literally exists, if it were real, would be trafficking.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 5:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Well, we finally get to a really interesting point... some place where we're not just trading insults... and then you disappear. And I'd still really like to know what you think are "American values" because I have a feeling this will be like our discussion of "patriotism": I might not "grok" what you think but I will kinda get the flavor.

I didn’t disappear, I just got bored with the discussion. It was approaching 250 posts – that’s usually the lifetime of most discussions. And when there are debates about time travel movies and selling Ashlee to the highest bidder, repeating a discussion from months ago has serious competition.

And as I remember my understanding of patriotism from that long ago thread was that it is defined as “love of country,” which could translate into any or all of several things including government, culture, geographic region, political philosophy or some food made from the guts of sheep. And your conclusion was that patriotism is republicanism and I hate the founding fathers because I didn’t express sole and unwavering agreement with everything you said and nothing of what you didn’t say. That’s what I remember. As far as Kucinich, his views are not realistic. He thinks the US should seek forgiveness from tyrants. I think he believes that it is arrogant for the US to strive for greatness. I think he doesn’t feel the US has any right being a world leader or making international policy without confirmation from the United Nations. Essentially, he doesn’t believe that America is worth promoting, and I don’t think that such a person can possibly hope to lead a nation to success if he doesn’t believe it should be lead to success. That’s my impression of Kucinich.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 6:48 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I would like to be clear on what you're saying. It's not that Kucinich doesn't support "American values" that bothers you? It's that his views are "unrealistic?"

Also, if I left the impression that you were damned for not being a "republican"... I didn't mean to do that. It just seems to me that there are many nations with lovely scenery that speak the English language and have our approximate heritage, but the unique facet of America is supposedly our love of democracy and our fierce dedication to individual freedom.

I mean, I love my native city (Buffalo) with all its faults and I have come to love my new city (LA) with all it's faults, I love my family and our family's heritage despite their faults but I would hardly call that "patriotism". And it's not exactly an unconditional love either- I try, where I can, to push things in a better direction.

The reason WHY I love my country is for all the GOOD things it represents, and to me that means freedom and equality under the law. I just can't imagine loving the USA for the BAD things it does. Maybe your'e able to extend a "warts and all" love that I feel for my personal connections to all of America.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 8:42 AM

Nit: Unconditional love does not necessarily mean you do not try to change things for the better. For instance, one might have unconditional love for one's children, but must still discipline, teach, guide, etc. them. So, just because you are looking for change, does not mean you do not have unconditional love.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 9:04 AM

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/09/11/please-dont-marry-our-daughte
rs

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I guess I would prolly call that unconditional commitment. The Greeks had several words for "love". For us, love covers a lot of ground. Makes discussion difficult.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 9:49 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
http://www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/marryourdaughter.asp

Ok, hopefully; still, the guy maybe turning a nice profit here. Notice the 'ads by google' and the nature of the ads. This site might not be offering 'for real' what one might be looking for, but it has become a nice collection point for folks willing to pay to offer similar 'services'.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 12:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I guess I would prolly call that unconditional commitment. The Greeks had several words for "love". For us, love covers a lot of ground. Makes discussion difficult.

Oh, harken me back to the days of religion class... agape and all that good stuff. We Americans just lump it all together and yet know we mean something different when we tell our wife we love her vs telling our good friend we send him our love.

In any event, I'm not sure I agree with you; love, of any sort, need not make you blind to flaws (though at various times -that- has also been known to happen), and simply because one loves a person/place/thing/political-entity one may attempt to mend or improve the object of love. I would say I love my country -and- I make efforts to make it a better place to be.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 1:16 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well yes that's true. One can love someone or something and still see its flaws.

Then the only way I can figure Finn's approach to the USA is that he sees no flaws because he deosn't know certain facts. Or that he feels that if you see flaws it must mean that you don't love, so he denies things. Or he sees the same facts that I do but what I interpret as flaws he sees as "features". Wish I knew!

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 3:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Then the only way I can figure Finn's approach to the USA is that he sees no flaws because he deosn't know certain facts. Or that he feels that if you see flaws it must mean that you don't love, so he denies things. Or he sees the same facts that I do but what I interpret as flaws he sees as "features". Wish I knew!

What is there to know? The US is superhumanly perfect in every conceivable way with no flaws whatsoever.

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Also, if I left the impression that you were damned for not being a "republican"... I didn't mean to do that. It just seems to me that there are many nations with lovely scenery that speak the English language and have our approximate heritage, but the unique facet of America is supposedly our love of democracy and our fierce dedication to individual freedom.

You’ll find, if you decide to travel, that many nations also love democracy and have a fierce dedication to individual freedom. The US is not unique in that regard either.

But as far as the patriotism thread was concerned, that was precisely the impression that I got, which was somewhat confusing because I think I was clear that I agreed with you on the issue of republicanism.

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Sunday, September 16, 2007 5:37 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
What is there to know? The US is superhumanly perfect in every conceivable way with no flaws whatsoever.

You what's weird? Here I am trying to understand what you're saying and why, which is why I keep asking questions, and it occurred to me....

... You, Auraptor, Hero, and Geezer have NEVER ONCE asked me what I meant or why I said what I said. Weird, isn't it?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, September 16, 2007 6:26 AM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
What is there to know? The US is superhumanly perfect in every conceivable way with no flaws whatsoever.
You what's weird? Here I am trying to understand what you're saying and why, which is why I keep asking questions, and it occurred to me....

... You, Auraptor, Hero, and Geezer have NEVER ONCE asked me what I meant or why I said what I said. Weird, isn't it?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

Since we are now talking in a different thread that has been hijacked to discuss..... whatever it is that this is..... perhaps they have lost track of what your point was.

Getting back to the topic in question. The Indian government has started to leave cribs in public places where mothers can leave unwanted female babies rather than resort to infanticide. The main reason for people killing daughters is because in Indian society a man must pay a dowry to the groom to marry his daughter. Poor families finding they have a baby girl will often kill her.

If this site was "buyourdaughter.com" and the seller was a poor Indian family and the buyers childless western couples, would that be as morally abhorent? I ask because when the BBC was doing a story on this at a Indian hospital one of the reporters was approached by the relatives of a woman who had just had a little girl and asked to take the baby. I have to admit where I in that situation and knowing that saying no would result in another "crib death" I'd be calling my wife to start decorating a nursery.

Discuss.

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Sunday, September 16, 2007 7:27 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Sorry for the thread-jack. Selling anyone is morally abhorrent. But if I were richer than god I'd buy up all the unwanted, give them all great educations and then have them take over the place.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Sunday, September 16, 2007 9:46 AM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Sorry for the thread-jack. Selling anyone is morally abhorrent. But if I were richer than god I'd buy up all the unwanted, give them all great educations and then have them take over the place.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

I absolutely agree that buying anyone is abhorent however if it stopped some baby girl being smothered in her crib ..... well THAT is even more abhorent.

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Sunday, September 16, 2007 9:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Getting back to the topic in question. The Indian government has started to leave cribs in public places where mothers can leave unwanted female babies rather than resort to infanticide. The main reason for people killing daughters is because in Indian society a man must pay a dowry to the groom to marry his daughter. Poor families finding they have a baby girl will often kill her.

If this site was "buyourdaughter.com" and the seller was a poor Indian family and the buyers childless western couples, would that be as morally abhorrent? I ask because when the BBC was doing a story on this at a Indian hospital one of the reporters was approached by the relatives of a woman who had just had a little girl and asked to take the baby. I have to admit where I in that situation and knowing that saying no would result in another "crib death" I'd be calling my wife to start decorating a nursery.

Discuss.

Gee, for a moment I thought you were going to ask a hard question ;-).

Well folks, there you go; head over to India and get girl babies on the cheap. China wants it's daughters only a little more. Of course, it's a bit awkward when on the way back to the states they ask if you have anything to declare.

Friends of mind adopted a lovely baby Chinese girl; it's worked out very well for them.

International adoptions are possible; and are very expensive. The costs are in the paper work and fees; nothing is going to the parents (at least, in these types of cases).

So, if you have money to burn, this is a worthy way to spend your money; bring these girls to the states and give 'em a good home.

As far as actually 'selling' children via a web site, well, that's a step beyond the 'grey line'. Now the question is, how do you setup a reasonable way to fund getting the children from India, to the US, ensuring the homes are good, and that 'less than ridiculously wealthy' can provide homes so that the number of potential homes can match up with the need?

Reality sucks.

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Sunday, September 16, 2007 5:22 PM

I have to say, in the current market, this is probably a much better investment than real estate. As long as you kept her well fed, healthy and clean and you flip her after two years and avoid paying Capital Gains Taxes, and make the sale before she starts getting all wrinkly...

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, September 17, 2007 1:51 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I read an interesting article a few years ago which talked about modern-day slavery, and what it said was that - adjusted for inflation- slaves are cheaper now than ever because the supply is so much greater than before. It's not as if we're exactly facing a shortage of humans. Some info

www.infoplease.com/spot/slavery1.html
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Monday, September 17, 2007 2:07 AM

Of course I was joking Signy....

But then again, been wondering what to do with my money now that I missed the gold boat.....

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, September 17, 2007 2:12 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Yes I know. And FWIW considering that the supply of people just keeps going up, it's not a good investment.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Monday, September 17, 2007 3:31 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by Reaverman:
Sick fucks. How in the hell is this BS still legal? This is like a child molester supermarket. How could anyone think that selling their 14,15 or 16 year old daughter to a man they've never met is okay?

You'd still have to comply with state marriage laws. In some states its legal to marry an underage girl with the parents permission.

14 years old is disgusting. Can't imagine it. Plus I have a 14 year old sister. She's extemely annoying, I wonder how much I could get for her...

H

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Monday, September 17, 2007 5:02 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Buying a child bride ...... $ 25,000
Getting her to say "Daddy Loves Blue Velvet"......Priceless

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Monday, September 17, 2007 5:32 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:
I absolutely agree that buying anyone is abhorent however if it stopped some baby girl being smothered in her crib ..... well THAT is even more abhorent.

It's one thing to take a child off the parents' hands for FREE. It's ultimately unproductive to ever BUY a child.

A parent who is threatening to kill a child unless he were paid money is a hostage taker. As we all know, giving in to hostage demands is not a good idea. That is how kidnapping has turned into an industry in countries like Colombia.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Monday, September 17, 2007 6:31 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

FredG- there's something about this topic that just brings out the CREEP in some people. And I note for the record that most of them are right-wingers.

Yes, I agree with CTS. IF I could buy up all the unwanted, I would... and then turn them into a force to stanch the flow of unwanted. But the real answer to slavery is to reduce the circumstances that create "unwanteds" in the first place.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Monday, September 17, 2007 8:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
FredG- there's something about this topic that just brings out the CREEP in some people.

Well that can be said about most topics really, it's just a question of how many and how creepy.

Quote:
But the real answer to slavery is to reduce the circumstances that create "unwanteds" in the first place.

Hmmmmmmm...free vasectomies to everyone in a third-world country? In India it's as simple as no longer allowing the dowry system.

P.S.

As the OP of this thread, feel free to hijack if something more interesting comes up, when I found out this site was a hoax I kind of lost interest.

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Monday, September 17, 2007 9:30 AM

CANTTAKESKY

Quote:
Originally posted by fredgiblet:
when I found out this site was a hoax I kind of lost interest.

I thought the author of the hoax had a good point though. Does it make sense that had this site NOT been a hoax, it would have been legal?

I am all for parental freedom and all, but this definitely pushes my buttons. Is it right that parents can "consent" to marriage on behalf of their underaged girls? Is it right that the age can be as low as 13 or 14?

On one hand, I can understand parents wanting to let their pregnant teenage daughters to marry and stop "living in sin." On the other hand, what's to stop parents from marrying their daughters off to the highest bidder?

I object to the idea that parents can offer consent for sexual activity on behalf of children who are not legally able to give sexual consent themselves. We need to set the age of consent to marry/have sex at one age, be it 16, 17, or 18, and forego parental permission for exceptions altogether. If a 13 year old wants to get married, too bad--with or without a parent's permission. If you're not old enough to drive, you're not old enough to marry.

Ultimately, we can't separate the marriageable age and age for sexual consent. They have got to be the same age, legally speaking. Nothing else makes sense to me.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

--------------
Aude sapere (Dare to know). -- Samuel Hahnemann, M.D.

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Monday, September 17, 2007 2:17 PM

Quote:
SignyM: there's something about this topic that just brings out the CREEP in some people. And I note for the record that most of them are right-wingers.

Must everything be turned into a partisan issue?

Can't we all just get along?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, September 18, 2007 6:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Must everything be turned into a partisan issue?

Yes.

Quote:
Can't we all just get along?

No.

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Tuesday, September 18, 2007 6:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by canttakesky:
I am all for parental freedom and all, but this definitely pushes my buttons. Is it right that parents can "consent" to marriage on behalf of their underaged girls?

I don't know he law, but I think the way it works is that the child has to agree too.

Quote:
I object to the idea that parents can offer consent for sexual activity on behalf of children who are not legally able to give sexual consent themselves.

I had a 19 year-old friend with a 14 year-old girlfriend, the only reason he isn't in jail on statutory rape right now is because when they were caught (by the police 2 states away from her home) her mom basically said "fine whatever I don't care" so there wasn't any charges pressed.

Quote:
Ultimately, we can't separate the marriageable age and age for sexual consent. They have got to be the same age, legally speaking. Nothing else makes sense to me.

Makes sense to me too, but then there's the question, raise the marriageable age, lower the sexual consent age or both?

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Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:10 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION

I thought it was illegal to sell your children, cause DAMN! I have a house full of them.....

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original

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Tuesday, September 18, 2007 7:18 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I think it's Utah that allows girls as young as 14 to marry with parental consent, or often in the case of polygamy by parental decree. In that case as a practical matter the girls have no say.

Why is it that the so-called Christians are so attached to the OT ? If you stopped to ask yourself WWJD, or even more what DID Jesus do, you'd see he believed in close same-sex bonds and overnight free association with prostitutes and close female companions in their homes. If I were to conclude anything at all given the NT I'd say it advocated free love.

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, September 18, 2007 3:13 PM