Blackwater kicked out of Iraq by fredgiblet

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Blackwater kicked out of Iraq

POSTED BY: FREDGIBLET
UPDATED: Thursday, October 25, 2007 04:09
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Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:22 AM

FREDGIBLET

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/09/17/iraq.main/index.html

Just in case Frem hasn't already seen it.

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Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:15 AM

ERIC

Quote:
An Interior Ministry spokesman, Brig. Gen. Abdul Kareem Khalaf, said, "We have revoked Blackwater's license to operate in Iraq. As of now they are not allowed to operate anywhere in the Republic of Iraq."

Joke's on them- they don't have a license to operate in Iraq! According to Coalition Provisional Authority order 17, no part of the occupying force is subject to Iraqi law.

You didn't think "sovereignty" really meant sovereignty, didja?

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Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:20 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Too bad it wasn't Haliburton. Libs/Dems would have a reason to go out and dance and rejoice in the streets...( except the lib/Dems who own Haliburton stock ).... .

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Tuesday, September 18, 2007 12:21 PM

FLETCH2

You know, when Mal explains the security company they are going to steal the payroll from in "Serenity" I always think of Blackwater.

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Thursday, September 20, 2007 5:10 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Too early to know anything factual about what went on, and we may never know, really.

Right now everyone is pointing at everyone else and screaming, "They started it!"

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, September 20, 2007 7:02 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I wonder if the people of NOLA wished they could kick out Blackwater.

And BTW- the point of foreign occupiers not being subject to Iraqi law.... don't you think that RANKLES just a bit? And being contractors, they're not subject to military law either! Gee, why would they want then out? I CAN'T imagine!

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, September 21, 2007 1:04 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Well, Frem just got back, saw it, and doesn't quite buy it - word is they're still operating through a couple dummy front corporations created for the sole purpose of insulating their own corporate name from the effects of their actions.

Of the few remaining(i.e. still alive) troops I am in contact with, it's about 30/70 love/hate goin on there, and most of them that don't hate em are thinkin better them than me, really.

Let's just say I am appaled at how short my mailing list in the sandbox has gotten.

-F

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Saturday, September 22, 2007 3:21 PM

GINOBIFFARONI

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/09/22/iraq-blackwater.html

Iraq has incriminating Blackwater tape: official

Iraqi investigators have a videotape that shows Blackwater USA guards opened fire against civilians without provocation in a shooting last week that left 11 people dead, a senior Iraqi official said Saturday.

He said the case was referred to the Iraqi judiciary.

Interior Ministry spokesman Maj.-Gen. Abdul-Karim Khalaf said Iraqi authorities had completed an investigation into the Sept. 16 shooting in Nisoor Square in western Baghdad and concluded that Blackwater guards were responsible for the deaths.

He told the Associated Press that the conclusion was based on witness statements as well as videotape shot by cameras at the nearby headquarters of the national police command. He said eight people were killed at the scene and three of the 15 wounded died in hospitals.

Blackwater, which provides most of the security for U.S. diplomats and civilian officials in Iraq, has insisted that its guards came under fire from armed insurgents and shot back only to defend themselves.

Blackwater spokeswoman Anne Tyrrell said Saturday that she knew nothing about the videotape and was contractually prohibited from discussing details of the shooting.

Khalaf also said the ministry was looking into six other fatal shootings involving the company in which 10 Iraqis were killed and 15 wounded. Among the shootings was an incident Feb. 7 outside Iraqi state television in Baghdad that killed three building guards.

"These six cases will support the case against Blackwater, because they show that it has a criminal record," Khalaf said.
No charges yet

Khalaf said the report was "sent to the judiciary" although he would not specify whether that amounted to filing of criminal charges. Under Iraqi law, an investigating judge reviews criminal complaints and decides whether there is enough evidence for a trial.

Government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh denied Saturday that authorities had decided to file charges against the Blackwater guards.

"The necessary measures will be taken that will preserve the honour of the Iraqi people," he said in New York, where Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki arrived Friday for a UN General Assembly session. "We have ongoing high-level meetings with the U.S. side about this issue."

Al-Maliki is expected to raise the issue with U.S. President George W. Bush during a meeting Monday in New York.

Law could block prosecution

It is doubtful that foreign security contractors could be prosecuted under Iraqi law. A directive issued by U.S. occupation authorities in 2004 granted contractors, U.S. troops and many other foreign officials immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law.

Security contractors are also not subject to U.S. military law under which U.S. troops face prosecution for killing or abusing Iraqis.

Iraqi officials have said in the wake of the Nisoor Square shooting that they will press for amendments to the 2004 directive.

A senior aide to al-Maliki said Friday that three of the Blackwater guards were Iraqis and could be subject to prosecution. The aide spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the case.

Shortly after the Sept. 16 shooting, U.S. officials said they "understood" that there was videotape, but refused to give more details. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not supposed to release information to the media.
Joint investigation

Following the Nisoor Square shooting, the Interior Ministry barred Blackwater from operating in Iraq but rolled back after the U.S. agreed to a joint investigation. The company resumed guarding a reduced number of U.S. convoys on Friday.

The al-Maliki aide said Friday that the Iraqis were pushing for an apology, compensation for victims or their families and for the guards involved in the shooting to be held "accountable."

Hadi al-Amri, a prominent Shia lawmaker and al-Maliki ally, also said an admission of wrongdoing, an apology and compensation offered a way out of the dilemma.

"They are always frightened and that's why they shoot at civilians," al-Amri said. "If Blackwater gets to stay in Iraq, it will have to give guarantees about its conduct."

Allegations against Blackwater have clouded relations between Iraq and the Americans at a time when the Bush administration is seeking to contain calls in Congress for sharp reductions in the 160,000-strong U.S. military force.

Release Iranian, president says

Adding to those strains, President Jalal Talabani demanded the immediate release of an Iranian official detained Thursday by U.S. forces in the Kurdish city of Sulaimaniyah.

The U.S. military said the unidentified Iranian was a member of the Quds force, an elite unit of Iran's Revolutionary Guards accused of arming and training Shia militias in Iraq.

A statement issued Saturday by Talabani's office said the arrest was carried out without the prior knowledge or the co-operation of the Kurdish regional government.

"This amounts to an insult and a violation of its rights and authority," said the statement, quoting a letter Talabani sent to Gen. David Petraeus and U.S. Ambassador Ryan Crocker. Talabani, a Kurd, is one of Washington's most reliable partners in Iraq.

Talabani said Iran had threatened to close the border with the Kurdish region if the official were not freed. That would be a serious blow to the economy in the president's political stronghold.

"I want to express to you our dismay over the arrest by American forces of this official civilian Iranian guest," Talabani wrote to Petraeus and Crocker.

" Law could block prosecution

It is doubtful that foreign security contractors could be prosecuted under Iraqi law. A directive issued by U.S. occupation authorities in 2004 granted contractors, U.S. troops and many other foreign officials immunity from prosecution under Iraqi law.

Security contractors are also not subject to U.S. military law under which U.S. troops face prosecution for killing or abusing Iraqis. "

Wouldn't these guys fall under the " definition " of illegal combatants ?

Perhaps they should be tried with a secret Iraqi army tribunal .....

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Saturday, September 22, 2007 9:43 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

I'd really have to see the tape in order to render a judgement.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, September 23, 2007 5:41 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

But thats the whole point of a secret tribunal....

the evidence never goes public

The Alliance said they were gonna waltz through Serenity Valley. And we choked 'em with those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty.

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Sunday, September 23, 2007 7:19 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I'd really have to see the tape in order to render a judgement.

Not me.

I don't know the details either, but I don't care because I think they're irrelevant. From my point of view, as an American citizen, it's the concept of mercenary warfare that I'm opposed to and that's why I'm glad the Iraqi government is raising hell about this. But it is a little embarrassing, because if we had any pride as a nation we wouldn't be hiring out our dirty work in the first place.

If the war is justified, if it's truly a matter of national defense, then we should be willing to do the job ourselves. Otherwise, we shouldn't be there at all.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Sunday, September 23, 2007 7:51 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

I'm not opposed to mercenary warfare per se. You're hiring someone for the job, so why not a merc?

I am opposed to mercs collecting 2-20 times a regular soldier's salary for the job they do.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Sunday, September 23, 2007 7:55 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:

I am opposed to mercs collecting 2-20 times a regular soldier's salary for the job they do.

They must be worth it, no?

Free market Chrisisall

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Sunday, September 23, 2007 8:36 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I'm not opposed to mercenary warfare per se. You're hiring someone for the job, so why not a merc?

I'm opposed to mercenary warfare because war isn't just another 'service'. They're not building bridges and hospitals. They're killing people -- in our name.

We shouldn't be outsourcing war to third party, corporate interests. Neither should we be going to war to protect third-party, corporate interests. I see both of these going on in Iraq and I think it's what makes it truly a national shame.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Sunday, September 23, 2007 8:40 AM

SERGEANTX

double post

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Sunday, September 23, 2007 12:08 PM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

I don't know, Sergeant...

The goings on in Iraq are a shame no matter who we hire to do what we're doing. Mercs or government soldiers. We boffed it up good as far as I can tell.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:09 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Oh yer gonna looove this.

Guess who they're gonna shovel Blackwaters responsibilities to, it seems ?

Dyncorp.

So, not only scumbags of the worst order, but incompetent ones too boot.

Looks like Dyncorp and Triple Canopy are gonna get stuck with it, after they did such a wonderful job of securing the city initially, and training the Iraqi police forces....

Dyncorp in particular has requested a transfer of some Blackwater personnel "familiar with established duties" and we'll see how that goes, we may well wind up with the same dickheads, doing the same stupid shit, with a different corporate logo on their uniform - yeah, that's really gonna change things.

Some background for those that didn't know it, but Dyncorp got their start as incompetent aircraft mechanics, and then via contacts within the sleazier side of the Gov, was employed as a semi-deniable strongarm to be used in Columbia, kind of like a privatized Phoenix force - were talkin outright death squad type stuff.

Then they got sent to Bosnia, and because folk actually gave a damn and they got caught, such behavior came to light in the media for a while.

And now Iraq...

Blackwater might be scum, but they hold to a better standard of competence and professionalism than Dyncorp ever will.

All this is.. is changin the corp badge on the uniforms.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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