Mahmoud Ahmadinejad murders gay people! by CrevanReaver

That's one way to stop the spread of AIDS. Have you seen Iranian women though?...yikes!, "too much hair"!....Kinda makes goin' homo almost a necessary option there. A'int no Gay Days at Disneyworld-Teheran. I also wonder how long Mr. DTMB would have lasted at Teheran University interrupting one of Achminassholeajhad's speeches. I wish all "open-minded" liberals the joyful opportunity to visit there...soon.

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 2:29 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by CrevanReaver:
Although he claims there are no gay people in Iran.

Somebody is lying. Unless he means there are no gays in Iran because he's killed them all. In which case...he's right.

I suspect he looks foreward to the day when there are no Jews in Isreal...

Funny though how they applaud everything he says...the lies, the threats, the stupid assed assertions...they only boo his hardline stance on gays. I suspect, given a choice, that the majority of faculty at Columbia would gladly take this fellow over President Bush. After all the way liberals see it, if you can't trust civil liberties, the lives of countless Jews, gays, and women, and a nuclear bomb to an Iranian dictator...who can you trust?

H

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 3:07 AM

America loves a winner!

And this is the guy so many wanted to hear ? This is the 'world leader' that so many on the Left would rather have instead of George Bush ???

I'm beyond stunned. Look at this photo. THIS is who the Islamo fascist are! This is what they DO! This guy and his kind are 100x's worse and are donig EXACTLY what the Left accuses Bush and his types of doing. Only this isn't some piratenews bullshit, this is real life! WTF are folks thinking about when THIS is what he does to his own people, and they applaud him in the halls of Columbia University ??? Are folks out of their FUCKING MINDS??

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 4:06 AM

So, I suppose this is the reason to invade Iran. Save the Iranian gays from their leader. There is another alternative though, we could have the Iranian gays apply for status as political refugees.
BTW, I'm not joking or being sarcastic.

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 4:47 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I'm not sure I agree with much of the sentiment here.

First of all, it looks like the primary reason the Iranian president was invited to speak at the University was so that he could be insulted.

The University president actually said he felt the weight of the western world on his shoulders, and that it was his duty to express the revulsion of the world. He spent his entire introduction insulting his invited guest speaker.

And I guess... I guess I'm the only one who thinks that's wrong.

I really don't care who it is, but when you invite someone to speak you have a duty to be civil and respectful. No one wants Hitler to knock on their door for tea and cakes, but if you invite the man over, then it becomes your duty to treat him with respect. It makes no difference who he is, because it is not about the man you've invited. It's about you. You do yourself a disservice to display such disregard to a guest.

The Iranian president's visit to the University was an exceptional learning opportunity. His ignorant or homophobic remarks on gay people were vastly illuminating. His softening stance on jews may signal political pressures at home. A platform designed to learn about him, rather than to persecute him, could have gleaned innumerable insights into the man. It could have provided fodder for countless psychology and political essays.

But quite frankly we learned more about Americans than we did about Iranians during his visit. And to me, that's sad.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 4:49 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Judith:
So, I suppose this is the reason to invade Iran. Save the Iranian gays from their leader. There is another alternative though, we could have the Iranian gays apply for status as political refugees.
BTW, I'm not joking or being sarcastic.

Who said anything bout invading Iran?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:04 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Anthony T wrote: But quite frankly we learned more about Americans than we did about Iranians during his visit. And to me, that's sad.

We learned more about American University Presidents, namely, from Columbia, than we did about Iranians. But we didn't learn more about AMERICANS. Not by a long shot.

I sorta cringe when I hear the position that no matter who you invite to speak, you can't criticize that person. While I think that's fine, as a general rule, I have to wonder if the same attitude would hold true should say, Bush accept an invitation to speak before the NAACP. The reason he's declined, of course, is the vile and hateful things which top members of that organization have gone on record and said about the President. It's no wonder he's declined an invite. I doubt very strongly that many there would be able to hold their tongues, from the things they've called him. Now, this isn't a direct, one to one comparison of the various parties, to be interchanged on the whim of one's political view, but an attempt to show the overall issue of inviting one to speak before you with who you may have strong disagreements.

But back to the main point. Ahmadinejad says there are no gays, there is no 'homosexuals' lifestyel in Iran. Then we see 2 teenage boys, being hung to death, for the crime of being gay.

What are we, as a evolved species, suppose to say about that ? Some will ignore it , dismiss it out of hand, and try to bring up some other irrelevent point. Some will scold Columbia's President, for being a bad host, as if that crime is so much worse than putting to death these 2 teenage boys. By the way some folk are responding, Bollinger is being made the villain here, while the blood is all over the hands of Ahmadinejad.

Strange days we live in. Very strange indeed.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:26 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

I think you miss the point, Auraptor.

First of all, if someone invited President Bush to speak, and they behaved this way, I'd have the same complaints. It's one thing to ask hard-hitting questions that reveal a guest's inequities. It's quite another to outright insult him, especially during an introduction!

Where you really miss the point is in this paragraph here:

"What are we, as a evolved species, suppose to say about that ? Some will ignore it , dismiss it out of hand, and try to bring up some other irrelevent point. Some will scold Columbia's President, for being a bad host, as if that crime is so much worse than putting to death these 2 teenage boys. By the way some folk are responding, Bollinger is being made the villain here, while the blood is all over the hands of Ahmadinejad."

Perhaps what you fail to remember, is that the moment the Iranian President said there were no homosexuals in Iran, he was greeted with laughter. Perhaps what you fail to realize, is that no one said to themselves, "There's no gays in Iran? Wow. I wonder what's different about Iran? Is it something in the water?" Everyone understood that he was quite incorrect.

Probably the best thing the Iranian President said during the entire interview was that there were no homosexuals in Iran. It put valuable context onto all of his other statements.

There is no doubt that the Iranian President's hands are covered in blood. That was known and understood at the time of invitation. I don't expect much from the President of Iran. I expect a great deal from our intellectual leaders. Leaders who create an example for the world, and demonstrate our values to the international community.

And the message was this: "Think twice before you accept a dinner invitation at that house."

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:29 AM

There are eye-witness survivors who say that this guy was one of the kidnappers during the 440+day Teheran Embassy seige in 1979. Why can't the UN arrest him today?

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 5:35 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Well, I honestly don't know anything about that. I suppose he'd probably have a dozen people stand up and say that he was playing golf at the time of the incident.

But, really, it's a bad idea to arrest heads of state who have been invited or accepted to the attendance of a diplomatic conference. It makes future diplomatic conferences difficult to conduct.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 6:10 AM

America loves a winner!

I've stated that the best thing to come from this appearance was that the world saw what a buffoon Ahmadinejad was in his denial that homosexuals were in Iran.

And I'm not missing the point that Bollinger was a bad host. It seems to me that the thumbed his nose at most of America who didn't want the Iranian President to speak at C.U., then thumbed his nose at everyone else when he attacked his 'guest'. I think he put himself in a poor position, and then only made matters worse. And perhaps I'm just more outraged at the Iranian leader, with the human rights violations, the assisting of terrorism in the world, and sending IED's to Iraq which ends up killing our soldiers than some U President for his bad manners.

But I agree. It is poor taste to invite someone and then attack them if they show up. Let the audience have their way w/ this guy, and have at it.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 6:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Judith:
So, I suppose this is the reason to invade Iran. Save the Iranian gays from their leader. There is another alternative though, we could have the Iranian gays apply for status as political refugees.
BTW, I'm not joking or being sarcastic.

Who said anything bout invading Iran?

No one said anything about invading Iran but me...it's my cynicism with regards to the present administration. OK so that's sarcastic...

Does anyone here want to help those identified as gay in Iran? Does anyone here want to do anything other than bitch about it? I have merely offered a solution of my own to the problem of mistreating those individuals while casting a cynical eye to the present administration. As for how the president of Iran was treated at Columbia - disgraceful seems too inadequate.

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 7:30 AM

Is he smarter than he seems, or a lot dumber?

He handled President Bollinger's bombshells with great patience and calm. That's usually the sign of a very calculating man....ie. nothing was going to upset him...not Bollinger, not being able to go see Ground Zero, not all the protesters outside, nothing. A lesser polished maniac, like Hugo Chavez for example, would probably have charged up to Bollinger and either spit in his face or decked him. I think the experience demonstrates how cold-blooded and determined this guy is. You can believe his daily rabid threats against Israel and the West.

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 7:59 AM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Is he smarter than he seems, or a lot dumber?

He handled President Bollinger's bombshells with great patience and calm. That's usually the sign of a very calculating man....ie. nothing was going to upset him...not Bollinger, not being able to go see Ground Zero, not all the protesters outside, nothing. A lesser polished maniac, like Hugo Chavez for example, would probably have charged up to Bollinger and either spit in his face or decked him. I think the experience demonstrates how cold-blooded and determined this guy is. You can believe his daily rabid threats against Israel and the West.

Actually it's worse than you think.

He's always come across to me as a reasonable man with an unreasonable worldview. By that I mean he isn't a raging nutjob like Chavez and others. Under normal circumstances politics aside you'd probably think he was a nice, thoughtfull and reasonable guy, he probably loves children and puppies.

The problem is that the world view he has and believes is reasonable, logical and natural is entirely opposite to ours. He doesnt see his worldview as being superior like guys like Chavez and Bin Laden do. That's why he doesnt campaign like they do to promote his vision. Instead he just sees his view as being correct and ours wrong. That's why he can take these insults with good humour, in his mind you are not challenging his belief you are just throwing a tantrum and being a nice guy he forgives you for it.

It's like when a child gets a foolish idea that you as an adult know is wrong. Some folks may get angry but nice people just try to correct the error and show good humour.

In his mind we're just wrong, and he's humouring us.

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:40 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
First of all, it looks like the primary reason the Iranian president was invited to speak at the University was so that he could be insulted.

Actually the primary reason he was invited was so he could be insulting. The left took this as an opportunity to embrace a leader who would come here and insult American policy, American culture, and most important to the liberals, to insult the American President. That he could then insult the American gays and the American left was surprising, after all they are the ones standing up for him. He should appreciate them, as should we all, the left would argue, for giving him a forum, a mild rebuke, and showing that the American left are the pillars of civilzation, diplomacy, and achievement.

Its the sort of thinking that went out of fashion when it directly resulted in World War 2. Early 20th Century liberal idealism, that wants to talk to Hitler...not confront and kill them. Hitler needed to be confronted in 1933, before he built the Nazi war machine, did the groundwork to ready the greatest mass executions in world history, or started the most widespread and destructive conflict we've seen yet.

Make no mistake, modern Iran is as hard on liberals, free thinkers, artists, writers, and professors as it is on gays and Jews. In that respect they have a lot in common with Hitler.

Quote:

And I guess... I guess I'm the only one who thinks that's wrong.

I really don't care who it is, but when you invite someone to speak you have a duty to be civil and respectful.

I agree. This man should NEVER have been invited. Columbia University is a place that is not safe for American speakers, like the Minutemen, and where American soldiers are not welcome, yet they welcome a brutal dictator.

Free speech does not mean providing a forum for a man like this. He's free as anyone to get on a soapbox and shout for all to hear, but we as a people are under no obligation to give him a hall, a microphone, and an audience.

H

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:06 AM

Hero, is there a liberal under your bed? Not everything is a 'left wing' conspiracy designed to bring down the ' (self?)righteous.' If we can't rationally discuss and exchange information in a civil way, diplomacy has no chance of effectiveness. This man may not to be trusted, but if we can't talk to him in a calm manner, we'll never figure things out.

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:42 AM

Hero....you're right on about Liberals and peaceniks....the end result of their "beliefs" is death....death of millions...always! It was the Liberal Peace Movement during the '30s that kept America from declaring war on Germany when England declared war on Germany. America sat on the sidelines....America watched England get pounded and pounded, night after night, buzz-bomb after buzz-bomb, thousands dead...while we did nothing...We did nothing as our friends in France, Holland and dozens of countries lost their countries to Hitler's invading hordes. We sat by and watched Japan commit countless atrocities against China and Manchuria....ONLY when WE were attacked did we get in the fight. If I were a British citizen I don't think I'd like America as a friend very much. Roosevelt's refusal to declare war back in early 1940 ultimately led to millions of deaths...deaths that could have been prevented if we had united with England right away to defeat Hitler.

If Iran DOES attack Israel or Saudi Arabia with nukes the LIbs here will not have the stomach for a fight....millions more will die because Ahmadinjad was allowed to expand his influence....hell I bet the "first" nuke or dirty bomb attack won't be carried out by Iran "officially"...they'll just hand it off to Al Qaida. That is a concept Liberals will not or cannot comprehend. Liberals forced America to hastily withdraw from Viet Nam...what was the result?...A fucking bloodbath of our friends and forces of democracy....millions tortured and killed because we didnt finish the job...and of course Liberals NEVER see their responsibility for all of it. These are the same Liberals who CRY for murderers like Tookie, but call our troops Nazis.....they oppose the death penalty by lethal injection on grounds of cruel & unusual, but they promulgate abortions...all types of abortions, including those that rip the fetus out piece by piece. They are a sad, pathetic demented lot of suicidal idiots, ever-determined to allow our country and way of life to be destroyed in the name of what they deem appropriate.

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 9:52 AM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
First of all, it looks like the primary reason the Iranian president was invited to speak at the University was so that he could be insulted.

Actually the primary reason he was invited was so he could be insulting. The left took this as an opportunity to embrace a leader who would come here and insult American policy, American culture, and most important to the liberals, to insult the American President. That he could then insult the American gays and the American left was surprising, after all they are the ones standing up for him. He should appreciate them, as should we all, the left would argue, for giving him a forum, a mild rebuke, and showing that the American left are the pillars of civilzation, diplomacy, and achievement.

I think that's a partial analysis. I think there was a degree of grandstanding here, I think the message Columbia was ORIGINALLY going to send was that civilised people talk to the enemy and try to change their minds through discourse rather than violence. I don't think that anyone there thought he was a friend of the liberal worldview, in fact his worldview (Israel aside) has more in common with some right wing Christians than it does with anyone else in the US, after all he does live in the theocracy.

My guess is that sometime in the last week, when the media, pro-Israeli students and Alums started asking WTF were Columbia thinking, a decision was made to firmly show that Columbia wasn't endorsing him. That was what the pre-speech speech was all about.

Quote:

Its the sort of thinking that went out of fashion when it directly resulted in World War 2. Early 20th Century liberal idealism, that wants to talk to Hitler...not confront and kill them.

Your history is different from mine then. I don't know that anyone on the "liberal" side in Europe actually trusted Hitler for a moment. There was a move by industrialists in Europe to support Fascism because it was seen as a valid alternative to Communism. That was a time in Europe when the ruling and property owning classes really feared that Russia Communism would spread through their own socialist and communist movements. The idea that Fascist states would be a buffer between capitalist Europe and communist Russia was not really a liberal notion.

Quote:

Hitler needed to be confronted in 1933, before he built the Nazi war machine, did the groundwork to ready the greatest mass executions in world history, or started the most widespread and destructive conflict we've seen yet.

Nobody wanted to confront Hitler in 1933, European losses in WW1 meant most European leaders could not get a mandate for pre-emptive action and America was in an isolationist phase dealing with the depression. It wasn't that lberals prefered to talk it was that nobody prefered to fight.

Quote:

Make no mistake, modern Iran is as hard on liberals, free thinkers, artists, writers, and professors as it is on gays and Jews. In that respect they have a lot in common with Hitler.

Theocracy in action.

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:47 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

Nonsense Hero,

Nothing is better for instigating thought than abrasive ideas. They create a friction that forces you to look seriously at an issue. I'm not generally inspired to post when I read something here that I agree with, but when I read something from you or Auraptor it makes me tackle the issue in my head. It makes me look at something that otherwise I might have continued to accept without delving. I generally don't come away agreeing with you, but I come away with a better understanding of my own position.

I say he should be given a forum to speak, and to be questioned as he was. I don't completely agree with antonyt that he should have been treated with respect in terms of the types of questions thrown his way. I believe that when you have somebody like that in that kind of venue, its your duty to ask him the hard questions.

And it sounds like he was.

so for all your accusations about what the left was looking for, where is your proof? Don't give me some bullshit line suggesting that they asked a question about homosexuality and expected him to go..."I'M GAY!"

that's not to say these distasteful platforms should be given the kind of play that our main-stream media gives them. Anne Coulter's hate peddling has been mainstreamed to the point where people might actually start thinking she's not so far out from the middle...that's the power of shifting our perception of what is the norm by overplaying radicalism...

This reinforces my feeling that the Iranian President should be grilled when he speaks. When you talk to somebody you feel is radical and out of touch with reality you can't publically accept their bull. Give them a chance to defend their bull, sure, but giving them a pass on it in the world of media is very near to condoning and reinforcing it.

...........

Sadly, the Bush administration doesn't like it when we talk to anybody. It's almost as if they feel their own position so tennuous that any digging would undermine them rather than to strengthen their own cause. That's probably true. They are kings of rhetoric. They like it when we don't examine the issues...when we allow our gut reactions to allign our sentiment with their agendas.

I'm not buying either of their bullshit...but I like to know what it is. they are both leaders with different goals and different pressures, and what they say should never be considered without taking into account those contexts.

Right now the Bush administrations goal seems to be to ratchet up a reason to invade Iran.

The Iranian President's goal is to make himself into a martyr for the middle east, and other sympathetic countries getting tired of Americas foreign policy.

It looks like they're both going to get what they want. The rest of us...

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 12:43 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Judith:
No one said anything about invading Iran but me...it's my cynicism with regards to the present administration. OK so that's sarcastic...

Does anyone here want to help those identified as gay in Iran? Does anyone here want to do anything other than bitch about it? I have merely offered a solution of my own to the problem of mistreating those individuals while casting a cynical eye to the present administration. As for how the president of Iran was treated at Columbia - disgraceful seems too inadequate.

For starters, no one is talking about going to war w/ Iran, other than the French, of all folks. Seems others, besides Bush and Cheney, are less than thrilled at Iran's desire to 'go nuclear'. Go figure

But per THIS issue, what does anything here have to do w/ our current administration? Is your memory so short or your mind so obscured by politics that you foget the previous 11 + years which lead up to us using force in Iraq?

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 .....
There's zero comparison, what so ever, so why even bring it up??

Must I explain everything all over again, step by step, about the sad irony of the American Left, praising Ahmadinejad's speaking before an American University? How the Iranian President will, with all honesty and a straight face ( pun sorta intended ) tell his audience and the world that there are NO gays in Iran, while the horrific truth stares us all in the face ?

Why do I even bother ??

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 12:51 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Well at least we now know that the US isn't the only country with an ignorant, intolerant and crazy-in-the-head elected prez-dent.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 12:55 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Well at least we now know that the US isn't the only country with an ignorant, intolerant and crazy-in-the-head elected prez-dent.

Riiiight. Because a nuclear Iran is what every level headed, clear thinking and PEACE LOVING world leader wants.

PeaceInOurTimeRaptor

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:03 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Riiiight. Because a nuclear Iran is what every level headed, clear thinking and PEACE LOVING world leader wants." Especially Bush who really wants to try out those bunker busting tactical nukes !

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 1:47 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Riiiight. Because a nuclear Iran is what every level headed, clear thinking and PEACE LOVING world leader wants." Especially Bush who really wants to try out those bunker busting tactical nukes !

Better to use those than to wait unitl Iran uses their toys.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 3:36 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I presume this is lost on you:

"We have seen the depth of our enemies' hatred in videos, where they laugh about the loss of innocent life. And the depth of their hatred is equaled by the madness of the destruction they design. We must be their equals, and more."

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 4:07 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I presume this is lost on you:

"We have seen the depth of our enemies' hatred in videos, where they laugh about the loss of innocent life. And the depth of their hatred is equaled by the madness of the destruction they design. We must be their equals, and more."

Fight fire with fire.

It takes a wolf to catch a wolf.

Seems more like it's lost on you, sir.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 8:05 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

So I take it it was beyond you ... ... did the US have to be exactly like the Nazis to fight them ? Or like the Japanese to fight them ? Think about it.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, September 25, 2007 11:56 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
So I take it it was beyond you ... ... did the US have to be exactly like the Nazis to fight them ? Or like the Japanese to fight them ? Think about it.

Me not agreeing with you or you not able to make your case isn't the same as something being beyond me. I reject the inane notion that to fight an enemy one must become that which you're trying to defeat. It's an absurd notion.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Judith:
No one said anything about invading Iran but me...it's my cynicism with regards to the present administration. OK so that's sarcastic...

Does anyone here want to help those identified as gay in Iran? Does anyone here want to do anything other than bitch about it? I have merely offered a solution of my own to the problem of mistreating those individuals while casting a cynical eye to the present administration. As for how the president of Iran was treated at Columbia - disgraceful seems too inadequate.

For starters, no one is talking about going to war w/ Iran, other than the French, of all folks. Seems others, besides Bush and Cheney, are less than thrilled at Iran's desire to 'go nuclear'. Go figure

But per THIS issue, what does anything here have to do w/ our current administration? Is your memory so short or your mind so obscured by politics that you foget the previous 11 + years which lead up to us using force in Iraq?

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998 .....
There's zero comparison, what so ever, so why even bring it up??

Must I explain everything all over again, step by step, about the sad irony of the American Left, praising Ahmadinejad's speaking before an American University? How the Iranian President will, with all honesty and a straight face ( pun sorta intended ) tell his audience and the world that there are NO gays in Iran, while the horrific truth stares us all in the face ?

Why do I even bother ??

It helps to listen a person to see what they are really like. I don't trust this person any more than you but not trying to get into their head just makes one ignorant of the opponent. Not everything in the world is about left/right prejudices. Your tirade re: the previous lead up to the Iraq issue is not applicable here. This is about what to do about the poor gay souls in Iran. So just pull your right wing boxers out of your pompous crack and get with the program. Truthfully , I don't know why you bothered with your nonsequiter Iraq lead-up either. This is about Iran.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:11 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Judith:
This is about what to do about the poor gay souls in Iran.

Did it ever occur to you that many, if not most Americans are not all too concerned about the fate of gay people...either in Iran or in America? Probably not.....years of media indoctrination to the masses about gay this and gay that have not influenced all of us yet, and frankly I will always find their lifestyle a disgusting abomination to everything good and decent...everyone I know is sick to death of gays and their gay issues. I think they're all mentally ill anyhow...they say being gay isn't a choice for them and they are complelled to be gay....well if it's not a choice then it's an un-wanted medical condition that needs to be cured to free them from this overriding gay behavioral control from their defective brains. Iran hangs gays, Cuba quarrantines gays, Hugo Chavez is gay and rapes young boys all day long in his purple jumpsuit....all the Liberal Heros of the world hurt gays in some way, yet the gays, part of the Liberal Suicide Pact for America, embrace these dictators as great men.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Quote:
Originally posted by Judith:
This is about what to do about the poor gay souls in Iran.

Did it ever occur to you that many, if not most Americans are not all too concerned about the fate of gay people...either in Iran or in America? Probably not.....years of media indoctrination to the masses about gay this and gay that have not influenced all of us yet, and frankly I will always find their lifestyle a disgusting abomination to everything good and decent...everyone I know is sick to death of gays and their gay issues. I think they're all mentally ill anyhow...they say being gay isn't a choice for them and they are complelled to be gay....well if it's not a choice then it's an un-wanted medical condition that needs to be cured to free them from this overriding gay behavioral control from their defective brains. Iran hangs gays, Cuba quarrantines gays, Hugo Chavez is gay and rapes young boys all day long in his purple jumpsuit....all the Liberal Heros of the world hurt gays in some way, yet the gays, part of the Liberal Suicide Pact for America, embrace these dictators as great men.

It's not so much a 'gay people' issue as it is a 'people' issue. The sooner folks get over 'gay' as a derogatory label and cut to the human level, the better for all of us. Is it your opinion that all 'gays' should be rounded up and executed? Should they be quarantined until a 'cure' can be found? Those who are attracted to members of their own sex are just people. Some are good and some are bad. It has been my experience that homophobia is usually associated with an insecurity with ones own sexuality. I'm sure that no one on this board is homophobic or insecure with their own sexuality, however. Which raises the question of why there are such strident diatribes against homosexuals. Then again, I imagine you don't like lesbian porn and never fantasize about being with two women at the same time.

......You're my hero!

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:03 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

"a disgusting abomination to everything good and decent."

Do you have a basis for this, or is this just a gut reaction? Don't puss out here by saying "it's just my opinion." What informs that opinion?

Do you really do so little heavy lifting with your brain that you can have such a hard-line opinion on a subject that is between consenting adults? What, according to your "undefective" brain, is the evil at work here? What is so debilitating about the condition of homosexuality that it would warrant "fixing." Who gives a shit what they do?

What is it doing, in your opinion to the rest of us? Is it making baby Jesus cry? Does an angel lose its wings every time a dude takes it up the butt? Are you terrified of accidentally becoming aroused at the sight of two men kissing?

I don't get it, really.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 6:38 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Exactly, Righteous, I file that one under "Why the hell should I care ?"

Only OTHER person whos sexual preferences I give a damn about is the one I am currently bangin, and ain't that just how it should be ?

-F

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:00 AM

MALBADINLATIN

You can always tell a top down propaganda effort is in progress because the dribble starts coming out of the mouths of republicans in the exact same form it started, no differences whatsoever, uncorrupted by original thought.

Here is the translation of the feelings the Republican war machine is trying to get accross. "We need to invade Iran right now liberals, they're killing gays, support our war efforts liberals!"

In reality....The Republican war machine doesn't give one iota of shit about gays in Iran. Eat shit and die pro war sheeple.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:03 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Judith wrote:
It helps to listen a person to see what they are really like. I don't trust this person any more than you but not trying to get into their head just makes one ignorant of the opponent. Not everything in the world is about left/right prejudices. Your tirade re: the previous lead up to the Iraq issue is not applicable here. This is about what to do about the poor gay souls in Iran. So just pull your right wing boxers out of your pompous crack and get with the program. Truthfully , I don't know why you bothered with your nonsequiter Iraq lead-up either. This is about Iran.

Sweet pea, it was YOUR comment about the cynicism toward the current administration and the desire to invade, not mine. The tone of your post was that Bust et al simply want to invade, for the sake fighting ANOTHER war. It's from those 2 points which I took your comments to mean something about Iraq. If I misunderstood, then I am wrong. But we do agree on 1 thing, that this is more than just about poor gay souls in Iran. It's about a figure head of Iran, telling an adoring Left wing audience filled auditorium at an American university that " there are no gays in Iran " in response to a question over human rights issues in his country. Ahmadinejad says this, with all seriousness and candor, while gays are being executed in public.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:16 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by MalBadInLatin:
You can always tell a top down propaganda effort is in progress because the dribble starts coming out of the mouths of republicans in the exact same form it started, no differences whatsoever, uncorrupted by original thought.

Here is the translation of the feelings the Republican war machine is trying to get accross. "We need to invade Iran right now liberals, they're killing gays, support our war efforts liberals!"

In reality....The Republican war machine doesn't give one iota of shit about gays in Iran. Eat shit and die pro war sheeple.

So, we're to concluded that you favor the killing of gays in this manner, even if they're just teenagers ?

Give war a chance.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 12:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Sweet pea, it was YOUR comment about the cynicism toward the current administration and the desire to invade, not mine. The tone of your post was that Bust et al simply want to invade, for the sake fighting ANOTHER war. It's from those 2 points which I took your comments to mean something about Iraq. If I misunderstood, then I am wrong. But we do agree on 1 thing, that this is more than just about poor gay souls in Iran. It's about a figure head of Iran, telling an adoring Left wing audience filled auditorium at an American university that " there are no gays in Iran " in response to a question over human rights issues in his country. Ahmadinejad says this, with all seriousness and candor, while gays are being executed in public.

Heaven forfend I would accuse our revered leader of being the single most responsible person for the egregious erosion of personal rights in this country or any pre-emptive agression against another sovereign country.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 12:45 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:

Sweet pea, it was YOUR comment about the cynicism toward the current administration and the desire to invade, not mine. The tone of your post was that Bust et al simply want to invade, for the sake fighting ANOTHER war. It's from those 2 points which I took your comments to mean something about Iraq. If I misunderstood, then I am wrong. But we do agree on 1 thing, that this is more than just about poor gay souls in Iran. It's about a figure head of Iran, telling an adoring Left wing audience filled auditorium at an American university that " there are no gays in Iran " in response to a question over human rights issues in his country. Ahmadinejad says this, with all seriousness and candor, while gays are being executed in public.

Heaven forfend I would accuse our revered leader of being the single most responsible person for the egregious erosion of personal rights in this country or any pre-emptive agression against another sovereign country.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 8:20 PM

MALBADINLATIN

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor: So, we're to concluded that you favor the killing of gays in this manner, even if they're just teenagers ?
Give war a chance.

Mere Rhetoric is an Isreali blog and thats where the photos came from. The Isrealis are doing a lot of encouraging of the US to hate Iran. If you can't find someone who can translate what that sign above the hanging victims says in Farsi....based on those two facts, it's not even proven to me that they are gay. I won't take the word of the biased. Now if they are gay, that sucks, but it cannot be used as one of the reasons we attack Iran. If we invade it'll be over nukes, and we won't find any, but we'll need to stay for security reasons, why do you care about gay rights anyway? You say it's a choice, so doing it in Iran when they knew it was a crime, they're getting what they deserve right, and I'm sure that lot's of Republicans in this country secretly wish they could do here.

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 10:18 PM

RIGHTEOUS9

Hey frem,

glad you agree.

Frankly, in this day and age, in this country that purports to laud our freedom to do what we wish as long as that freedom ends at our neighbors nose, it should be astonishing to me that there's disagreement on this at all. Sadly, I'm too jaded to be unsurprised.

Jongstraw, How does a person who believes that the gay life-style is actually evil reconcile that moral judgement with such a liberal foundation of our coutry's principles? I'm not saying gays were accpeted openly at the time of the writing of our bill of rights, but neither was women's suffrage, or racial equality.

When forced to choose between sombody elses freedom of choice, and your morality that tells you homosexuality is evil, how do you weigh in? Can you support both platforms simultaneously? Does one trump the other?

.................................

As to Auraptor and Jong's amusing, and I hope, partly toungue-in-cheek rhetoric about liberals not caring about gays, because we don't want to go in and depose the Iranian President, I'll just ask them how well gays are doing in Iraq today, thanks to our intervention?

I haven't really heard much about the hurdles we've made for the rights of alternative life-styles over there. I'm sure that while the warring factions are killing each other just for being each other, that they have become far more tolerant of homosexuality than they were in the past. I'm sure if we were to publically ask Al Maliki about the plight of the homosexual in Iraq, he would tell us he has many friends who are gay, and that they say the bathrooms have never been more hospitable.

You know, it oculd just be that liberals don't want to invade a nation with a crazy fundamentalist leader(WITH a crazy fundamentalist leader) because we're certain that no matter how bad things are there now, we will manage to make them worse, especially under the watch of our current President.

...................

2/3's in to this I got really tired. If some of it doesn't make any sense, that's my excuse

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Wednesday, September 26, 2007 11:58 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Judith wrote:
Heaven forfend I would accuse our revered leader of being the single most responsible person for the egregious erosion of personal rights in this country or any pre-emptive agression against another sovereign country.

"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'" - Buffy

First of all, none of our personal rights or freedoms have been eroded. Second, what the hell does that have to do w/ Ahmadeinejad's claim that there are no gays in Iran while simualtaneously gays are being publically executed?

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, September 27, 2007 1:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Judith wrote:
Heaven forfend I would accuse our revered leader of being the single most responsible person for the egregious erosion of personal rights in this country or any pre-emptive agression against another sovereign country.

"I think I speak for everyone here when I say, 'Huh?'" - Buffy

First of all, none of our personal rights or freedoms have been eroded. Second, what the hell does that have to do w/ Ahmadeinejad's claim that there are no gays in Iran while simualtaneously gays are being publically executed?[i

Warrentless eavesdropping on citizens, allowing citizens to be detained without charge indefinitely, without bail or legal representation. Warrantless private information gathering on citizens.

But yes, you're right this has no place in this thread.

Ahmadinejad is a liar. He executes citizens based on the accusation of being gay. So what is to be done? The US and UN are putting political and economic pressure on the country. What else can be done? I merely ask for suggestions. I've proposed allowing Iranian citizens to apply for political assylum. Any other suggestions?

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Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:18 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
First of all, none of our personal rights or freedoms have been eroded

Nah, you just get tasered for asking questions and arrested for peacefully protesting. It's only freedom of speech that's eroded Rap. But I'm sure you won't miss it.

And wow- the right wing is suddenly worried about the rights of gays. What a fucking joke.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
Frankly, in this day and age, in this country that purports to laud our freedom to do what we wish as long as that freedom ends at our neighbors nose, it should be astonishing to me that there's disagreement on this at all. Sadly, I'm too jaded to be unsurprised.

Jongstraw, How does a person who believes that the gay life-style is actually evil reconcile that moral judgement with such a liberal foundation of our coutry's principles? I'm not saying gays were accpeted openly at the time of the writing of our bill of rights, but neither was women's suffrage, or racial equality.

When forced to choose between sombody elses freedom of choice, and your morality that tells you homosexuality is evil, how do you weigh in? Can you support both platforms simultaneously? Does one trump the other?

Your first response to me was condescending and insulting to me...therefore you got no response back. Now you've toned it down a bit, and I will simply tell you I do not care if you and others here need me to explain what I wrote on this subject, or any other. I know what I know, and I have a lifetime of witnessed living history, and personal experiences. Rather than attack my words, why don't YOU at least try to see another side....ya know...that "tolerance" thing you liberal folks always espouse, but really have none of? Here's a little clue for you.....I couldn't care less if men and women want to screw eachother, or goats & sheep for that matter; as long as I dont have to see it, know about it, or have it rammed down my political throat as mainstream dogma.

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Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:29 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Jongsstraw- you sometimes are reasonable but when you refuse to explain yourself it's impossible to "try" to understand you because we're not telepathic.

Yeah, I have a lifetime of experiences too (I'm really old so I prolly have more than you do) but I don't presume you should try to understand them in absence of an explanation on my part. So instead of asking for folks to practice telepathy, why don't you try practicing communication?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:48 AM

SIg....I don't think you believe what you just wrote for one minute. According to the liberal majority of 'coats on this board I'm never reasonable. I can write a 200+ word post, filled with historical facts and conclusions, only to have some obtuse, argumentative twit here cherry-pick a sentence or two and attack based on that....quite dis-honest and immature. To tell you the truth, these boards have become very boring & predictable, and I am thinking of not returning...for example...this thread, other threads...Conservative and moderate folks will engage in thousands of words, interesting stuff...then as predictable as the rising sun, you, Rue and gang will swoop in and say something like above....(paraphrasing here ) Bush is as bad as Amadinejad....or Malbad's " eat shit and die pro-war sheeple"...WOW...how smart, how insightful, how fucking insulting to everyone else who was actually making this topic interesting. You and your allies here have chased off just about every Conservative with your endless argumentative and confrontational attacks, highlighted by your delusionally self-imposed attitudes of intellectual and moral superiority over tradional-minded citizens.

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Thursday, September 27, 2007 2:50 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Judith- I have an answer to what we should do about oppressive nations, but it'll never fly because it gets in the way of maximum profit.

It's very simple: place a 5% import tariff on any nation that doesn't have elections certified by the UN, 5% on any nation that doesn't have free unions, 5% on any nation that doesn't grant equal right to all citizens regardless of (fill in all the usual) etc., 5% on nations without a free press and free internet etc. In that way, national leaders will be rewarded for doing the right thing.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Thursday, September 27, 2007 3:03 AM