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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Ok, first off - these are serious questions and ones I actually have a vested *personal* interest in, and while at THIS point currently, it's all theoretical, that may not continue indefinately especially if the situation deteriorates, which it has the potential to do in a hurry.

My youngest living relation is in a situation both at home and elsewhere, that gives me endless frustration as I honestly and firmly believe there is some risk to her person and safety, and a severe risk to her sanity and mental stability from all aspects thereof.

Sorry to be so vague, but there's a lot of legal 'grey area' where it's not clear what I can or cannot do in order to rectify it, and I need my options open and thus cannot share the exact details... but I am watching the nightmare that created me happen to her, and but for a few mitigating factors, I might well have wound up as much a monster as Carl Panzram.

Having worked in security, being prepared for "What if ?" is part of the mindset, and like Bianchi from CJ Cherryh's Foreigner series.. "One must consider the full range of possibilities."

Just remember that this is quite serious and personal, and I am very likely to start ripping heads off if personal snark or partisanship enters the discussion.

The Questions:

1. Should children old enough to self-realize be considered as fully "people" with their own rights ?

2. Under what circumstances, if any, would you consider arming a minor child ?

3. With what ?

4. Why/Why not ?

5. If intervention was certain to cause extreme and dangerous repercussions to both yourself and the child, at what point, if any, would you draw the line and do so ?
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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
The Questions:

1. Should children old enough to self-realize be considered as fully "people" with their own rights ?

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2. Under what circumstances, if any, would you consider arming a minor child ?

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3. With what ?

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4. Why/Why not ?

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5. If intervention was certain to cause extreme and dangerous repercussions to both yourself and the child, at what point, if any, would you draw the line and do so ?

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
The Questions:

1. Should children old enough to self-realize be considered as fully "people" with their own rights ?

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2. Under what circumstances, if any, would you consider arming a minor child ?

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3. With what ?

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4. Why/Why not ?

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5. If intervention was certain to cause extreme and dangerous repercussions to both yourself and the child, at what point, if any, would you draw the line and do so ?

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Ok, first off - these are serious questions and ones I actually have a vested *personal* interest in, and while at THIS point currently, it's all theoretical, that may not continue indefinately especially if the situation deteriorates, which it has the potential to do in a hurry.

My youngest living relation is in a situation both at home and elsewhere, that gives me endless frustration as I honestly and firmly believe there is some risk to her person and safety, and a severe risk to her sanity and mental stability from all aspects thereof.

Sorry to be so vague, but there's a lot of legal 'grey area' where it's not clear what I can or cannot do in order to rectify it, and I need my options open and thus cannot share the exact details... but I am watching the nightmare that created me happen to her, and but for a few mitigating factors, I might well have wound up as much a monster as Carl Panzram.

Having worked in security, being prepared for "What if ?" is part of the mindset, and like Bianchi from CJ Cherryh's Foreigner series.. "One must consider the full range of possibilities."

Just remember that this is quite serious and personal, and I am very likely to start ripping heads off if personal snark or partisanship enters the discussion.

The Questions:

1. Should children old enough to self-realize be considered as fully "people" with their own rights ?

2. Under what circumstances, if any, would you consider arming a minor child ?

3. With what ?

4. Why/Why not ?

5. If intervention was certain to cause extreme and dangerous repercussions to both yourself and the child, at what point, if any, would you draw the line and do so ?

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Emancipated Minors

Unlike the mature minor, state statutes define an emancipated minor. Although state statutes vary, there are many similarities between the different states and their definition of an emancipated minor. Generally, the youth must be a minimum age, usually 16 years old, live apart form her parents, and be economically self-sufficient.[28] Definitions of an emancipated minor include those who are self-supporting and not living at home, married, pregnant or a parent, in the military, declared emancipated by the court.[28]

Emancipated minors are considered adults for several purposes, including the ability to enter into a contract, rent an apartment, and consent to medical care. Emancipated minors relinquish the right to parental support, and they are expected to be self-supporting.[28] State statutes do vary; for example, in California to be emancipated, a minor must be at least 14 years old.[28, 29] However, in Montana, emancipation will only be granted if the court finds that "the youth has graduated or will continue to diligently pursue graduation from high school, unless circumstances clearly compel deferral of education".[28, 30] Although state statutes allow emancipated minors to make complex decisions, they are not immune from all state age requirements; for example, they must be 18 years of age to vote.[15, 28, 30, 31]

Without going to court to be declared mature or emancipated minor, minors can and do make several decisional choices about reproductive issues. There are no laws that dictate the sexual activity of a minor, other than certain criminal laws such as prohibiting statutory rape. A minor who is sexually active may choose contraception under current laws.[18] If a minor does not use contraception, is sexually active, and becomes pregnant, the minor must then choose whether to have the baby and keep the baby, give the baby up for adoption, or have an abortion. Once the minor becomes a parent, the minor is in charge

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Believe me, if I *was* the kids guardian there wouldn't be a problem, but I am not, and laying assault to my own entire family would be pretty damn traumatic (to her), which is what resolving the situation is likely gonna take - abusive home, abusive school, and cut off from all social contact at this point because of it.

I am completely willing to assume guardianship, and fully able to do it, but it's not that simple, not when children are considered, legally, to be either property or even less than property.

Frankly, I'm appalled by some of the responses, because if the option is to sit back helplessly and watch them die or spiral down into mental breakdown and suicide, or breach the law and all social convention, the latter seems more appropriate, but I *did* ask your opinions, and *do* want them honestly.

Believe me, I wish to hell it was ever as simple as walking in the door and saying "Let's go." - would that it was, but when straightjacketed by society and the law, constrained to watch in helpless misery, something you know is wrong, then what ?

If it were just that, I would not much care, my primary concern is the physical safety and mental stablity of the kid, the latter of which is gonna deteroirate very rapidly if something is not done.

-F

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

1. Should children old enough to self-realize be considered as fully "people" with their own rights ?

Fred, by self-realize I mean actually ask the question.
"I am a person, right, so why do I have less legal rights and protection than the family pet ?"

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Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I do find it somewhat ironic that everyone assumes pistol when I was thinking mace.

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everyone

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