Forget 'Be all you can be'- Get paid all you can get paid! by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Forget 'Be all you can be'- Get paid all you can get paid!

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Monday, October 22, 2007 09:34
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Saturday, October 20, 2007 3:57 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/04/01/iraq.contractor/
[qouot]"It pays quite well. There's a lot of contracts that pay anywhere from $350 a day to $1,500 a day," said Chris Boyd of Kroll-Crucible Security.

Right out of Escape From LA, our very own United States Police Force...the Elite Blackwater Boys.

From Iraq to New Orleans and beyond, costing the taxpayers billions by now, they rule...almost literally. That Prince guy must think he really IS one, rich beyond reason and able to set policy, sort of a Bush Jr., Jr.

In Iraq their casualties have been notably low, due to their 'shoot first' tactics. Tends to get a lot of civies waxed, but hey- it works!

In New Orleans they weeged about lack-O-action, poor adrenaline junkies.

Now they are exempt from sovereign Iraqi justice, according to Mr. Prince.

Anyone else here see this as a BAD thing?

Heil Chrisisall

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Saturday, October 20, 2007 12:07 PM

LEADB

I'd rather they not be permitted to operate within the US. Not thrilled they are operating in Iraq; makes you wonder if our Military is 'right sized.'

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Saturday, October 20, 2007 4:39 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
I'd rather they not be permitted to operate within the US. Not thrilled they are operating in Iraq; makes you wonder if our Military is 'right sized.'

Makes me pissed our troops are not as well equipped, not to mention paid s**t in comparison. With the dough they're spilling on Blackwater, our troops could have equiptment and training that could save lives, but oh, I forgot, they're just the grunts, poor and such, they're expendable. The Blackwater dudes are the elite, connected and favoured ones.
So much for "Support the troops".

Chrisisall

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Saturday, October 20, 2007 5:07 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

From everything I've read and observed since 9-1-1, your not America anymore.

Wonder if I can convince my Aunt to move back up here.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~Peter*Peter*Power>~re-peater~

HEROES IS MY CRACK!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

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Saturday, October 20, 2007 9:05 PM

LEADB

Quote:
Originally posted by Misstressahara:
From everything I've read and observed since 9-1-1, your not America anymore.

Wonder if I can convince my Aunt to move back up here.

Canada?
In any case, there are folks fighting to get things back to where they should be.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Makes me pissed our troops are not as well equipped, not to mention paid s**t in comparison. With the dough they're spilling on Blackwater, our troops could have equiptment and training that could save lives, but oh, I forgot, they're just the grunts, poor and such, they're expendable. The Blackwater dudes are the elite, connected and favoured ones.
So much for "Support the troops".

They talk about these Blackwater guys getting paid $100K; given the risk,etc. I'm not sure that's 'too much'; but it sure does put in context how poorly paid the typical US soldier is for the same, or riskier, work.

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Sunday, October 21, 2007 5:26 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Worse is their commander, guy by the name of Erik Prince.

Absolute fanatic, silver-spoon fair haired boy of the wealthy elite, who unusually is a pretty tough SOB in his own right in spite of such.

Problem is, he's four kinds of crazy, staunch Straussian Neocon who thinks we ain't takin it far *enough* and his foreign policy views are right up there with Boltons, not to mention his view that anyone not part of their Cabal is just subhuman factory or cannon fodder for his own enrichment.

The DeVoss family's involvement with Prince (who is universally despised around here) was also part of why ole Dicky boy got run out of town on a rail when he tried to run for Governor.

And mind you, THIS is the guy running blackwater, an iron-fisted bastard who sets the agenda, and the lunacy flows from the top down.

Know what happened to the last private army of rabid partisan psychos in this country ?
(Pinkertons, specifically)
They become the US Dept of Justice.

And their conduct was so horrific that in 1893 a law was passed forbidding the US Gov to ever, ever hire them again for anything, ever.

"Therefore, let him who has no desire to conquer make use of these arms, for they are much more hazardous than mercenaries, because with them the ruin is ready made; they are all united, all yield obedience to others; but with mercenaries, when they have conquered, more time and better opportunities are needed to injure you; they are not all of one community, they are found and paid by you, and a third party, which you have made their head, is not able all at once to assume enough authority to injure you. In conclusion, in mercenaries dastardy is most dangerous; in auxiliaries, valour. The wise prince, therefore, has always avoided these arms and turned to his own; and has been willing rather to lose with them than to conquer with others, not deeming that a real victory which is gained with the arms of others."

Dangerous ground, this is.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, October 21, 2007 7:00 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Know what happened to the last private army of rabid partisan psychos in this country ?
(Pinkertons, specifically)
They become the US Dept of Justice.

Thanks for that footnote, Frem.

Acknowledging Chrisisall

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Sunday, October 21, 2007 11:44 AM

JARHEAD

Quote:
Originally posted by leadb:
I'd rather they not be permitted to operate within the US. Not thrilled they are operating in Iraq; makes you wonder if our Military is 'right sized.'

Blackwater isn't military - that's kinda the point of mercenaries. The only thing that makes Blackwater a standout is that we actually know about them. They do more than than shoot Iraqi civilians too - they handle security for State Department officials and functions and various other services that they can charge large sums of money for. They have also proven to be highly effective in combat precisely because they don't have to worry about who gets in the way. Was a time Blackwater wouldn't have a role because our own troops were allowed to operate that way, and frankly I can't blame them - why charge into a building dug-in with hostiles and hostages when you can just drop it on their heads? Yeah you'll hate yourself later because you'll be ALIVE to hate yourself later.

It's a very real fact that killing gets easier and more mechanical each time you do it. One of the things I liked about Firefly was that Mal was a fairly good humored sort that didn't hurt anyone that he didn't have to, but had killed enough that he could shoot a lawman in the head and dump the body without a second thought if need be. It added a believability to his veteran status.

Unfortunately Blackwater is not the problem. They are nothing more than a tool - a private army operating because of the laws of supply and demand. The administration needs effective troops, and that means they need a force that doesn't have to abide by Geneva Convention absurdities (demand) - I hear the next revision on the treaty will include mandates to adopt nerf weapons - and this crew stepped up(supply).

Whether Iraq is right or wrong, whether Katrina's aftermath was bad enough to require mercenaries to "restore order", or for that matter to have National Guardsmen thrust into the role of possibly haven't to open fire on looters(common criminals)or confiscating legally owned firearms when there was not a shred of proof of misuse by the lawful owner - these are the questions that we should be addressing.

I’m never serious. Serious means something bad is about to happen.

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

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Sunday, October 21, 2007 11:55 AM

TPAGE

I think the situation is fundamentally wrong. I don't mean morally, righteously, etc. In fact, I am not even talking about the Iraq or any such thing. But what does it say about the American military forces when American Ambassadors, etc. are protected by third parties?!

Does that not state, in itself, that the American military is not up to the standards it should be? Anytime a nation's officials are protected by those employed outside the state apparatus, irregardless of citizenship, there is a problem that must be fixed.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

And if someday on some little piss-ant moon/My hand is a little too slow, or my aim a little bit off/At least I’ll go down fighting, not lying abed surrounded by quacks - "Sir Warrick" by Geezer

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Sunday, October 21, 2007 12:51 PM

JARHEAD

Quote:
Originally posted by TPage:
I think the situation is fundamentally wrong. I don't mean morally, righteously, etc. In fact, I am not even talking about the Iraq or any such thing. But what does it say about the American military forces when American Ambassadors, etc. are protected by third parties?!

Does that not state, in itself, that the American military is not up to the standards it should be? Anytime a nation's officials are protected by those employed outside the state apparatus, irregardless of citizenship, there is a problem that must be fixed.

Blackwater's higher paid employees are mostly former US Special Forces/SEALS/Marine Force Recon/etc. And the State Department is not at all equipped to operate in a war zone. If you want the military proper to do the job, then you have to deal with how they will to do it - in force: a broadsword when the situation could be handled with a dagger, provided the wielder was skilled enough.

I'm a constitutionalist, but I can't condemn these guys. I've been a grunt on the ground; the more I find out about Blackwater the less worried about them I am. I'm much more worried about the intentions of the Ivy Leaguers that hired them.

I’m never serious. Serious means something bad is about to happen.

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

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Monday, October 22, 2007 5:38 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

But Jarhead,

we aren't trying to win a bodycount war there,

we're trying to win hearts and minds remember?

Now how are you going to do that if every living Iraqi has a grudge against us because they've lost someone close to them at our hands? That may be an exxageration, but I'm not sure that it is.

I agree, our soldiers are hamstrung as to how they can deal with the real threats to their person. They are occupiers trying to pose as liberators, and there's a great contradiction in how the two roles should behave.

So maybe they're in an untennable situation which they should never have been put in in the first place. Maybe they shouldn't be left there in harms way, a buffer target that is only mitigating the assured casualties between the warring parties that we let lose on each other when we deposed Hussein.

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Monday, October 22, 2007 7:46 AM

JONGSSTRAW

$1000 a day to be "professional" security? They haven't done a very good job at it. Baghdad's been a disaster for years now...even the Green Zone was not safe.....every street and dirt road is a potential bomb/ambush waiting to happen. Who exactly do they work for?

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Monday, October 22, 2007 8:26 AM

JARHEAD

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
$1000 a day to be "professional" security? They haven't done a very good job at it. Baghdad's been a disaster for years now...even the Green Zone was not safe.....every street and dirt road is a potential bomb/ambush waiting to happen. Who exactly do they work for?

Blackwater is very proud of the fact that they have a zero percent failure rate. Every individual that they have been tasked with protecting is still alive today, and it doesn't matter to them how many had to die in order to do that.

As to what my feelings are when it comes to the whole Iraq war, etc., please check out Ned Beatty's speech on top of the glacier in the movie "Shooter". Of course we shouldn't be there. In fact I don't think American troops should be anywhere else in the world, save for Israel if they will have us. But then that would only happen in an America where the Federal government was independent of Corporate interests, and that will never happen without considerable American bloodshed, I'm sad to say.

For my solution on how to fix America, please see the end of the movie "Shooter". It's rather self explanatory.

I’m never serious. Serious means something bad is about to happen.

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

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Monday, October 22, 2007 9:34 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by jarhead:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
$1000 a day to be "professional" security? They haven't done a very good job at it. Baghdad's been a disaster for years now...even the Green Zone was not safe.....every street and dirt road is a potential bomb/ambush waiting to happen. Who exactly do they work for?

Blackwater is very proud of the fact that they have a zero percent failure rate. Every individual that they have been tasked with protecting is still alive today, and it doesn't matter to them how many had to die in order to do that.

As to what my feelings are when it comes to the whole Iraq war, etc., please check out Ned Beatty's speech on top of the glacier in the movie "Shooter". Of course we shouldn't be there. In fact I don't think American troops should be anywhere else in the world, save for Israel if they will have us. But then that would only happen in an America where the Federal government was independent of Corporate interests, and that will never happen without considerable American bloodshed, I'm sad to say.

For my solution on how to fix America, please see the end of the movie "Shooter". It's rather self explanatory.

I'm not familiar with Shooter. Ned Beatty made one of the greatest "corporate" speeches ever in Network.

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