Aurap..siggy ..it some CFR... by kaneman

Quote:
the Christiofascists will say ANYTHING to justify what they're doing,in their God's name. This isn't about revenge or the poor of the world crying out for help, this is about religious zealotry and some who feel their god isn't getting enough attention from the rest of the world. They'll say anything to gather as many useful idiots both in and outside of their religion to use as they see fit, regardless of the truth.

Here, fixed that for you.

Both statements are equally valid, mind you, our own zealots no less vile, deceptive or malicious than theirs are - and to be ruthlessly blunt about it, I'd like to see the lot of em sent off to their preferred afterlife where they can't be of annoyance to rational folk here.

Problem is, while folk are afraid of one set of these zealous fanatics, they're too pigheaded stupid and blind to realize that in engaging the perceieved threat of that set, we are fully delivering ourselves and our nation into the hands of an equally evil set.

One could hope they'd kill each other off, but the prime movers on either side don't fight, they send poor clueless kids to kill each other to further their agendas instead.

Regardless of which set "wins" WE still lose, and the only real difference in the end is which set of religious dogma is gonna be crammed down our throats on a pike.

And folks wonder why imma Anarchist...

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, October 29, 2007 9:10 PM

I recommend you read "Jesus on Mars" by Phillip Jose Farmer Frem...... very entertaining book along the lines of what you say here.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Monday, October 29, 2007 10:04 PM

Scary book, that - and it reminds me of something else... ponder if the council in LoTR had stumbled upon the One Ring with utterly no knowledge of it's history.. the effect might have been similar.

One quote from the book points such out.

"The only difference between them and Jesus is that Jesus can do good. But it's an insidious good that will lead directly but subtly to subtle evil."

You give the One Ring of Power to anyone, and the results will be the same, the only difference is how fast the onslaught comes and in which form.

And in our world, that One Ring has a name.

Government.

"One Ring to rule them all, One Ring to find them, One Ring to bring them all and in the darkness bind them"

Only one tiny minority of people are crazy enough to throw that fucker back into the fire from whence it came - everyone else just wants it for themselves.

I sure as hell wouldn't want it myself.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Monday, October 29, 2007 10:34 PM

Ah.... so you have read it already. Love Phillip Jose Farmer myself. It wasn't "To Your Scattered Bodies Go", but it definately makes you ask a lot of questions after reading it.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 2:51 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Quote:
the Islamo-fascists will say ANYTHING to justify what they're doing,in their God's name......

Both statements are equally valid, mind you, our own zealots no less vile, deceptive or malicious than theirs are - and to be ruthlessly blunt about it, I'd like to see the lot of em sent off to their preferred afterlife where they can't be of annoyance to rational folk here.

Problem is, while folk are afraid of one set of these zealous fanatics, they're too pigheaded stupid and blind to realize that in engaging the perceieved threat of that set, we are fully delivering ourselves and our nation into the hands of an equally evil set.

One could hope they'd kill each other off, but the prime movers on either side don't fight, they send poor clueless kids to kill each other to further their agendas instead.

Regardless of which set "wins" WE still lose, and the only real difference in the end is which set of religious dogma is gonna be crammed down our throats on a pike.

And folks wonder why imma Anarchist...

-Frem

Sorry, but there's no comparison between the Islamo Jihadist and the few fringe abortion doctor killin' Christians. There simply isn't. Looking at the number of suicide bombings, car bombings, deaths caused BY muslims to the handful caused by Christians over the past 30 years, it's mountains to molehills. If we beat radical Islam, we ALL win...gays, women, children..EVERYONE wins.

p.s. Latest Offerings from the Religion of Peace

10/29/2007 (al-Baraka, Somalia) - A woman is killed by a bomb set by Islamic militias.

10/29/2007 (Lashkar Gar, Afghanistan) - A teenage suicide bomber kills three Afghans civilians.

10/28/2007 (Kut, Iraq) - A woman is among two people gunned down by Islamic terrorists.

10/28/2007 (Kirkuk, Iraq) - A suicidal Sunni bomber targets innocent Shia at a bus terminal, killing at least eight.

10/28/2007 (Baghdad, Iraq) - Two people are killed in a Jihad bombing.

10/27/2007 (Swat, Pakistan) - Islamic militants behead two captured soldiers and five civilians.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 5:49 AM

*points to the peaceful "Christian" history of crusades, inquisitions, persecutions and general bloody conquest going all the way back to damn near pre-history*

And I am supposed to trust THESE guys not to act like THOSE guys ?

Right, sure.

All I am saying is that from MY position, when BOTH sides pretty blatantly would like my unbeliever ass wiped from the planet - that their actions and rhetoric look very much alike, cause crazy zealots all have the same basic do or die agenda.

As for a "few fringe" haven't you been paying attention ?

John Bolton, General Boykin, Michele Bachmann, Rick Perry, Erik Prince, Randall Terry, James Dobson, Jerry Falwell, Sam Brownback, PNAC and the Zionists....

Try listening to the endless torrent of hate coming out of their mouths for anyone not of their beliefs, and ask yourself why I would not see these folk as an equal if not greater threat ?

Most of them muslim fanatics are over THERE -->
7000 miles away, with no air force, no substantive military arm, and a subsistence level infrastructure.

Most of them christian fanatics are over HERE <--
Right in my back yard, and way too damn many of them are in charge, or in positions of power which can be bent upon us poor unbelievers in an instant should they ever get their way significantly.

It's like looking at Godzilla versus Mothra from the perspective of Tokyo - at least for me, no matter which "wins" the city is still gonna get wrecked, and you'll probably be stomped or eaten by the survivor.

When it comes right down to it, the only difference at all between these religious lunatics is the specifics of their faith and where most of them live - and that's IT.

-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:14 AM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1195568,00.html

Luckily the Christian Far Right and Rapture party nutjobs have no say in Bush Government foriegn policy.

Cause that would be scary.

Quote:
US Christian fundamentalists are driving Bush's Middle East policy
To understand what is happening in the Middle East, you must first understand what is happening in Texas. To understand what is happening there, you should read the resolutions passed at the state's Republican party conventions last month. Take a look, for example, at the decisions made in Harris County, which covers much of Houston.
...
I don't know what the original motion said, but apparently it was "watered down significantly" as a result of the shouting match. The motion they adopted stated that Israel has an undivided claim to Jerusalem and the West Bank, that Arab states should be "pressured" to absorb refugees from Palestine, and that Israel should do whatever it wishes in seeking to eliminate terrorism. Good to see that the extremists didn't prevail then.

Quote:
Bush White House checked with rapture Christians before latest Israel move
It was an e-mail we weren't meant to see. Not for our eyes were the notes that showed White House staffers taking two-hour meetings with Christian fundamentalists, where they passed off bogus social science on gay marriage as if it were holy writ and issued fiery warnings that "the Presidents [sic] Administration and current Government is engaged in cultural, economical, and social struggle on every level"—this to a group whose representative in Israel believed herself to have been attacked by witchcraft unleashed by proximity to a volume of Harry Potter. Most of all, apparently, we're not supposed to know the National Security Council's top Middle East aide consults with apocalyptic Christians eager to ensure American policy on Israel conforms with their sectarian doomsday scenarios.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0420,perlstein,53582,1.html

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:19 AM

America loves a winner!

I love the way how y'all expand the issue from murderous religious zealots TODAY to citizens simply having a say in Gov't, or dredging up history from 100's of yrs ago. Wow. Big shocker there (sarcasm)

You're mixing apples and oranges. Are the Fred Phelps of the world as deranged and off kilter as OBL and al Qaeda? Perhaps in their views, yes, but in how they run their organizations or how they chop off the heads of those who they oppose......it's a moot point.

Who killed Theo Van Gogh?

Who kiils their daughters that shame the family name ?

Who routinely mutilates young girls genitals ?

Unless and until you can honestly answer those types of qusetions, then there's no point in even moving forward w/ the discussion.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:39 AM

FLETCH2

The honour killings thing is an Arab cultural contamination of the Muslim religion not something demanded by the religion itself. In fact if you look you will find honour killings are common in Lebanese Christian communities as well for the same reason and I know the J-man definately didn't say that was OK.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:56 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
You're mixing apples and oranges. Are the Fred Phelps of the world as deranged and off kilter as OBL and al Qaeda? Perhaps in their views, yes, but in how they run their organizations or how they chop off the heads of those who they oppose......it's a moot point.

Believe it or not, you're not the final arbiter of truth AU, saying "it's a moot point" doesn't make it so. What I'm more amazed about is how you, and others are so hell bent on turning this into a "whose religion is better" issue. There's enough skeletons in every closet to make THAT a moot point.

Quote:
Who killed Theo Van Gogh?

Mohammed Bouyeri, but I guess you want the answer "A Muslim", like they're some sort of Gestalt. Not that it proves anything (unless you ignore the fact that murder is an act unrestrained by ones religious affiliation). Muslims didn't invent Murder, and they're not the only ones killing people in the name of their religion.

Jeffrey Dahmer was a fundamentalist Christian, the difference between you and me is that I don't think that proves anything.

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Who kiils their daughters that shame the family name ?

Actually Christians do this as well. It's a cultural, rather than religious issue.

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Who routinely mutilates young girls genitals ?

You want the list? It's a lot longer than "some Muslim sects".

Quote:
Unless and until you can honestly answer those types of qusetions, then there's no point in even moving forward w/ the discussion.

Unless and until you can stop making this into a "their evil we're good" issue, there's no way we can move on as a species.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 11:22 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Believe it or not, you're not the final arbiter of truth AU, saying "it's a moot point" doesn't make it so. What I'm more amazed about is how you, and others are so hell bent on turning this into a "whose religion is better" issue. There's enough skeletons in every closet to make THAT a moot point.

Yes, it DOES make it so if you're trying to distort the issue and I'm the only one honest enough to call you out on it. I'm not talking about skeletons in closets, I'm talking about how folks are living ( and murdering ) for their religion TODAY. Play the moral equivalency game somewhere else. Islmo - fascism IS the worst religion. Period. All others run a distant 2nd in this contest.

Quote:
Jeffrey Dahmer was a fundamentalist Christian, the difference between you and me is that I don't think that proves anything.

Dahmer wasn't a fundementalist Christian until AFTER he was caught and in prison. He wasn't slicing and dicing his victims in the name Jesus. Nice try. Oh, wait....no it wasn't. But
Mohammed Bouyeri,( aka Abu Zubair ),a Muslim, specifically DID kill Van Gogh because he felt his religion gave him the right to do so. He even pinned a nice note on Theo's dead body. Such the considerate religious killer.

Christians don't mutilate their young women anywhere near the numbers as do Muslims. Where it does occur, the practice predates the word of Christianity spreading to parts of Africa, and has little to do w/ the teachings. Unlike with Islam, where Sharia law and Islam are, in many places , intertwined.

There's no denying they ( the Islamo Jihadist ) are evil. They're as evil as humans come, and that's not debatable. As a culture and as a religious sect, the rest of the world would be better off if such zealots didn't exist. Some have known this for a while, some are still blind to the facts. If this sounds too 'scary' for you to consider, then think of the alternative.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 12:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Yes, it DOES make it so if you're trying to distort the issue and I'm the only one honest enough to call you out on it.

Except you're the one making it an issue of 'whose religion is better', not I. I'm not the one distorting the 'issue', and frankly, you being the only one 'calling me out' on it doesn't make you 'honest'. Like we all secretly agree with you, but can't admit the fact, please.

You need to realise theres a difference between your opinion, and objective facts.

Quote:
I'm not talking about skeletons in closets, I'm talking about how folks are living ( and murdering ) for their religion TODAY.

Erm, there's people killing in the name of every religion today, it's just Muslim extremism gets the most press. They're the new Jews, it's hip to hate Mohammed.

Get a bit closer and you'll realise that not no ones shit smells like roses.

Quote:
Islmo - fascism IS the worst religion. Period. All others run a distant 2nd in this contest.

Woah, take a deep breath there skip. Who are we talking about exactly? Because you know, 'Islamo-fascism' isn't a religion, it's a made up term to make hating a group of people easier, kinda like 'international Jewry' in that regard. If you're going to start waxing made up words as if they're some sort of meaningful term we might as well stop right here.

Are we talking about "Islam", because Islam is fairly unremarkable in it's level of violence, or are we talking about "Islamic Terrorists", because they're really not a religion. What exactly are we talking about? Define the term please.

Quote:
Dahmer wasn't a fundementalist Christian until AFTER he was caught and in prison. He wasn't slicing and dicing his victims in the name Jesus. Nice try. Oh, wait....no it wasn't.

Way to miss the point there big fella.

Quote:
But Mohammed Bouyeri,( aka Abu Zubair ),a Muslim, specifically DID kill Van Gogh because he felt his religion gave him the right to do so. He even pinned a nice note on Theo's dead body. Such the considerate religious killer.

Are you really trying to tell me that you don't believe Christians, or any other religious group has members that kill for their religion today? Come on man, read a newspaper.

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Christians don't mutilate their young women anywhere near the numbers as do Muslims.

*sigh* I wasn't making this a Christian vs Muslim issue. This is another Cultural issue, not an Islam issue.

Quote:
Where it does occur, the practice predates the word of Christianity spreading to parts of Africa, and has little to do w/ the teachings. Unlike with Islam, where Sharia law and Islam are, in many places , intertwined.

This sentence makes no sense. Christianity predates Islam by quite some way. Christianity in Africa is recorded in the Bible, it's been there as long as Christianity has existed. Islam didn't start coming into the continent until the 7th Century. How can the practice predate Christianity, but not Islam, that makes no sense.

Quote:
There's no denying they ( the Islamo Jihadist ) are evil. They're as evil as humans come, and that's not debatable. As a culture and as a religious sect, the rest of the world would be better off if such zealots didn't exist. Some have known this for a while, some are still blind to the facts. If this sounds too 'scary' for you to consider, then think of the alternative.

I think you need to re-read my statements, and not just assume I'm a pro-Terrorist because I disagree with you.

Now I agree, Islamic Terrorists aren't cuddle bunnies, but you're not stopping at "Islamic Terrorists are fucked up", you're going on to "Islamic Terrorists are fucked up, so Islam is fucked up, therefore all (or most) Muslims are fucked up". It's a conclusion that doesn't follow, it's an association fallacy.

You're then making another, even worse leap, and assuming that Muslims have the market cornered on un-cuddle bunny like behaviour. You seem to be raising confirmation bias to the level of an art form.

EDIT: for clarity.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 1:05 PM

Let's be truly blunt.

Taken as a whole, it smells of the same fearful racism that spawned the Klan, it really does, the rhetoric is even exactly the same.

The point I was making is that just cause THOSE guys -->
Are some serious dickheads...

Does not in any way make THESE guys <--
Any kind of righteous.

To make an analogy some folk might better understand - which would you fear more, the murderer eight states away who only owns a bicycle, or the mugger eight houses down the row ?

Chances of some jihadist ever trying to force his religion on me at gunpoint ?
About fucking zilch.

Chances of some christian fundamentalist trying to force his religion on me by using our own government as a lever ?
100%

I'm not gonna get into all the details, but many of the things my beliefs entertwine with are outright illegal - like the belief that a person has the right to do anything they damn well please to themSELF, long as they deliver no harm to others.

And as I said before, both sides would like to wipe me and mine off the planet, and one of em lives HERE.

Simple. Freakin. Logic.

They're the greater threat.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 1:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Let's be truly blunt.

Taken as a whole, it smells of the same fearful racism that spawned the Klan, it really does, the rhetoric is even exactly the same.

I've seen the rhetoric before, but not from the Klan...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:02 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I love the way how y'all expand the issue from murderous religious zealots TODAY to citizens simply having a say in Gov't, or dredging up history from 100's of yrs ago. Wow. Big shocker there (sarcasm)

You're mixing apples and oranges. Are the Fred Phelps of the world as deranged and off kilter as OBL and al Qaeda? Perhaps in their views, yes, but in how they run their organizations or how they chop off the heads of those who they oppose......it's a moot point. Who killed Theo Van Gogh? Who kiils their daughters that shame the family name ? Who routinely mutilates young girls genitals ?

Who has killed tens of thousands of Iraqis for "freedom"?

I'm going to engage in moral absolutism again: Dead is dead. If you kill someone for anything other than immediate self defense or defense of others... and I don't mean a general hand-waving defense, I mean engaging in an action that is likely to save more lives than it kills... then you're a fanatic. It doesn't matter what color your fanaticism wears, whether it's the color of Xtianity, Islam, Zeusism, capitalism, or communism

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 7:02 PM

America loves a winner!

I didn't bring up the religion game, Frem did.

I show you objective fact, and you simply call it 'opinion'. You and Baghdad Bob must be related somehow.

Islamo-fascist, Islmo-jihadsit, Muslim extremist,Radical Islam, Islamo-terrorist, etc...call it what you will, it's all the f-ing same. A world wide culture of terrorism which uses Islam as it's front while committing every known atrocity known to man. In the 21st century.

You're missing the point, fellah. YOU made a claim about Jeffery Dahmer and then when called on it, ( per usual ) you crawfish away from your original intent - making Christians sound every bit as bad as Islamo-fascits. Sorry, but the OBJECTIVE facts show otherwise. I'm sorry that pisses you off to have to hear that, but it's true. Get f-ing use to it.

Per the female genital cutting ( FGC ), it's FAR more common in Muslim practicing parts of Africa and the Mid East than any other religion. That's all you need to know.

What pisses me off is how you try to equate 2 totally unlike situations. Islmo-fascism is a wild fire burng out of control. In contrast, Christian extremism is mildly smoldering, here or there, but not causing anywhere NEAR the rampant danger and destruction as Islam. I do read the papers, and there simply aren't the car bombings, the gang rapes, the murders found in Christian cultures as there are w/ Islam.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 8:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
[BTheir ordeal ?? Have you not seen the emaciated bodies piled 20-30ft high? The mass graves ? The ovens ? The showers/gas chambers ? Seriously, wtf is it in your brain that blocks you from acknowledging these facts ???

Not to stir up old shit for nothing Rap and anybody else who just can't believe that I don't buy the Holocaust as it was sold to us, but I saw Forrest Gump shake JFK's hand. I don't believe anything I see on the news or read in a history book. It has nothing to do with anything against Jews, although that's the kind of reply I've been getting back (again, no big suprise).

Of course, the German people had a lot of propoganda during the war that at one time or another you've all no doubt seen. And I'm sure that you were told it was propoganda before or while you watched it.

Now let me ask you? Had the Germans won WWII, do you suppose that the German propoganda would have gone down in the history books as propoganda? History is written by the winners my friends.

And dont' bring my Uncle into this. Just like all black people shouldn't be judged by what 50 Cent says or does, many Jewish people are working class and completely without any power and you couldn't even pick them out of a crowd of white people. That's just another way of making somebody who says "why the fuck are we helping Israel out?" to be a racist.

The Jews in power have us spending tons of our tax dollars defending Israel. I don't see no point to it, just like we shouldn't be in Iraq or Iran either, but when a politician tries to point that out they're defamed and labeled an anti-semite. It is impossible to argue with a Jew that is in power because of that likely supremely over-exagerated history.

And somebody is going to argue with me about the power Jews have in the country and this world? Christ... was anybody in the world more powerful than Alan Greenspan? I rest my case.

That is why I don't believe.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Tuesday, October 30, 2007 10:11 PM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I don't believe anything I see on the news or read in a history book....

Of course, the German people had a lot of propoganda during ...

How do you know? 'Cause it seems like the kind of thing you might have seen on the news or read in a history book. Just sayin'.

Quote:
And dont' bring my Uncle into this.

uh.. I thought you brought up your uncle. Yeah, you did, because I didn't even know you had an uncle, or that he was Jewish until I read it in your post.

Anyway, the problem with this kind of approach is, how do you ever know what or whom to trust? You seem willing to believe a worldwide conspiracy of Jews faked the holocaust. How does that seem more plausible than genocide? It seems to take a much larger 'leap of faith' to follow your theory than the traditional story.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:20 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I don't believe anything I see on the news or read in a history book....

Of course, the German people had a lot of propoganda during ...

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
How do you know? 'Cause it seems like the kind of thing you might have seen on the news or read in a history book. Just sayin'.

Wow.... nice. Now you're just playing games with me. I'm game. I'm willing to get as circular with our logic as you'd like to get.

Okay.... how's this. Of course there may or may not have been German propoganda during World War II when the Germans may or may not have been putting Jews and Polocks in the ovens. We've all seen the alleged propoganda pictures before. If this alleged propoganda were to actually have existed in the first place, and the Germans won the war, do you really believe that it would have gone down in the history books as propoganda, alleged or otherwise?

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ME: And dont' bring my Uncle into this.

Quote:
YOU: uh.. I thought you brought up your uncle. Yeah, you did, because I didn't even know you had an uncle, or that he was Jewish until I read it in your post.

That's right. I did. To illustrate that I'm not somebody that is racist against Jewish people. You know that, so let's not play games. As far as I'm concerned my uncle is just another one of the guys. I enjoy spending time with him and his family very much. I brought him up because I don't just hate somebody because their Jewish, which is what one automatically assumes when somebody, like me, says they doubt the legitimacy or the insane Hollywood story of millions of people dying and being burned without anybody knowing about it or doing anything about it if they did. Do you know how much burning flesh reeks? Take a lighter and burn some of your arm hair and see just how long that stank lingers. The entire continent of Europe all the way to Moscow would have smelled like shit for years.

You, however, turned that around on me and said that my Uncle must be evil because he is Jewish or some such nonsense. This is the exact thing that I'm trying to say is not the truth, and you bastardized and twisted my words. That is why I also said that not all black people should be judged on what 50 cent says or does. Nor should all Germans be judged on what Hitler allegedly did, for that matter.

Quote:
Anyway, the problem with this kind of approach is, how do you ever know what or whom to trust? You seem willing to believe a worldwide conspiracy of Jews faked the holocaust. How does that seem more plausible than genocide? It seems to take a much larger 'leap of faith' to follow your theory than the traditional story.

You haven't read all of my other posts Sergent? I know we've both been here a long time. I don't trust anybody. I don't even trust my self my man. I don't believe anything I didn't witness with my own eyes, and even then I still question a hell of a lot of it. I see things in trends and all I can do is comment on them.

1. Jews (see: not all jews, just those who matter and are in power) run the money and the show today. They own Wall Street, they own Hollywood, the run the FED. They are fine associating themselves with white people until it suits them to distinguish themselves as Jewish.

2. Any politician who says that we have no business in Isreal is labeled an anti-semite and risks his political career simply uttering words along those lines. What is there really in Isreal that's worth keeping. What secret lies there that they would have us defend to the point that we may cause World War III because we are simply unable to let the middle east devour it? I'm all for giving any Isrealite safe harbor here, but we need to get our ass out of that business immediately.

It just all seems very convient the way that the people without a nation have so much control over the world and the economy today.

Hey... I could be wrong. It's not as if I'm Mr Iran flat out denying that it ever happened. I wasn't there... maybe the fishiest story that reeks of the most bullshit that I've ever heard of in my life really did somehow happen. But I'm not going to buy it because my history book in school said it and a bunch of Jewish producers in Hollywood make a new movie to remind us what a tough time they had every couple of years that wins a bunch of Oscars.

Sorry

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 2:30 AM

America loves a winner!

6ixstring, you're an idiot.

Quote:
Not to stir up old shit for nothing Rap and anybody else who just can't believe that I don't buy the Holocaust as it was sold to us, but I saw Forrest Gump shake JFK's hand. I don't believe anything I see on the news or read in a history book.

You equate CGI technology of today to the 1000's of photos taken 50 yrs ago ? Wow. And I suppose all those folks simply got tattoos of serial numbers on their arms for kicks and giggles, huh? Your reasons for not believing in the holocaust have nothing to do w/ the actual evidence,they're a priori. Your indignation towards Jews and at what you imagine is 'jew power' around the world has obviously warped your mind. Yours is such a contorted position on its face, I don't see how you've survived in a world in which clearly you're extremely cynical of everything all around you.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Auraptor:
I didn't bring up the religion game, Frem did.

If you say so, it sure as hell wasn't me, which is what you accused me of.

Quote:
I show you objective fact, and you simply call it 'opinion'.

As I said, you're going to have to learn that you're opinion isn't an objective fact. You've not shown me objective fact, you've ranted, and made vague references to Islamic terrorism as if its representative of all of Islam. Objective fact would be figures, statistics and data from third party sources, not just your opinion qualified with "because I say so."

If you can provide that, we can talk in terms of facts, until then we're both discussing our opinions, no matter how undeniable you believe yours to be.

Quote:
You and Baghdad Bob must be related somehow.

I can assure you none of my relatives go by that name. Is this perhaps another reference to me being a pro-terrorist because I don't agree with you?

Quote:
Islamo-fascist, Islmo-jihadsit, Muslim extremist,Radical Islam, Islamo-terrorist, etc...call it what you will, it's all the f-ing same. A world wide culture of terrorism which uses Islam as it's front while committing ever known atrocity known to man. In the 21st century.

See, wasn't that easy? Though 'Islamo' isn't actually a word...

So can we accept that the point that Islamic terrorists are not representative of mainstream Islam is conceded? In which case will you stop using the terms as interchangeable?

Quote:
You're missing the point, fellah. YOU made a claim about Jeffery Dahmer and then when called on it, ( per usual ) you crawfish away from your original intent - making Christians sound every bit as bad as Islamo-fascits.

I suggest you keep working on your mind reading skills. The truth of my intent lay with the qualifier of my original statement, it came after the comma you must have read as a full-stop. My only claim about Dahmer was that he was a Christian, and that that proves nothing about Christianity. The words are right there in my initial post, refuting any Strawman you would like to prescribe to me.

As for your characterisation of my position, you'll have to back that up. Where did I say "Christians are the same as 'Islamo-fascists'?" If you're honest you'll recognise that I said nothing of the sort, my position is and all ways has been that: Christianity is no better or worse than Islam, on the whole. I am not the one who thinks the terms 'Islam' and 'Islamo-fascists' are equivalent, remember? Characterising my position as you have done is at best a misunderstanding driven by not reading what I have said properly, and at worst a barefaced lie. Reread what I wrote, accept you've got my position wrong (rather than assuming you know more about the contents of my head than I do), and stop flogging this dead horse, please.

Quote:
Sorry, but the OBJECTIVE facts show otherwise. I'm sorry that pisses you off to have to hear that, but it's true. Get f-ing use to it.

Step back from the keyboard, take a deep breath and look again. It is not I getting overly emotional here.

Quote:
Per the female genital cutting ( FGC ), it's FAR more common in Muslim practicing parts of Africa and the Mid East than any other religion. That's all you need to know.

I'm glad you've decided what information I need and what I don't, how refreshing to not have to think for myself with you as my censor. However, you will have to back this up with something other than your say so.

Also, this in and of itself doesn't prove that it is a 'Muslim practice', that would be an irrelevant conclusion, correlation does not prove causation.

The question (which you side stepped quite nicely, well done you) was: how can the practice pre-date Christianity, but not Islam, when Christianity is older? And if it pre-dates both, it must be a cultural issue, surely? You're assertion that it predates Christianity, but not the younger Islam, makes no sense.

Quote:
What pisses me off is how you try to equate 2 totally unlike situations.

Really? Because you're getting 'pissed off' at your own strawman. What might piss me off is your continued desire to misrepresent my position rather than honestly debate my argument.

Quote:
Islmo-fascism is a wild fire burng out of control.

So George Bush's tactics are failing? :-p

Quote:
In contrast, Christian extremism is mildly smoldering, here or there, but not causing anywhere NEAR the rampant danger and destruction as Islam.

Really, care to back that up? There's some pretty prolific Christian groups, especially in Africa; Its just we never hear about them. Know one wants to know if you're only killing brown folk...

Quote:
I do read the papers, and there simply aren't the car bombings, the gang rapes, the murders fund in Christian cultures as there are w/ Islam.

You've got a good bit of slight of hand going there. I argue that Christianity and Islam are about as good or bad as each other, you frame the debate as "Christian vs Islamic terrorism" and of course Christianity isn't as bad as Islamic extremism, but once so framed you move on to say Islam, Sneaking in an equivalency of Islam==Islamic extremism. In essence you say "Islam is an evil religion" and when called on it say "So you don't think Islamic terrorists are evil?". Interesting tactic, a formal and deceptive fallacy, and an invalid argument, but interesting nonetheless.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 6:56 AM

"I didn't bring up the religion game, Frem did."

Bullshit, are you really that clueless or think we're that gullible ?
Scroll up, fucktard.

I was talking about Ron Paul - YOU chose to bring your fanatic religious venom and hatred into the topic, and I turned it about on you, showing that the so called "good guys" were every single bit as vile, and from my perspective a greater threat to what I hold dear.

"I show you objective fact"

You hand out a bunch of biased rightwingnut faery tales from laughable sources and I blow them to fucking powder, is more like it - we've been round and round THAT table often enough Rap, just like here where you pretended to take issue with someones positions... and then when pressed, admitted you did not even know what the fuck they WERE.

Do you even ever fact check anything at ALL if it's something you wanna hear ?

"Compasssionate Conservativism, Christian Values, Spreading Democracy etc...call it what you will, it's all the f-ing same. A world wide culture of terrorism which uses Christianity as it's front while committing every known atrocity known to man. In the 21st century."

Here, fixed that for you.

Seriously dude, you sound EXACTLY like a Klansman talking about black people, EXACTLY.

Not to be especially crass, but what those fuckers do in some other country is THAT countries problem, and if they wanna fix it, they can damn well start killin the bastards themselves - not to mention a lot of them were elevated to or even voted into the positions of power they now hold by a substantial majority of the folks you're trying to play off as victims.

Fact is, no matter how powerful a dictator is, if ENOUGH of their own people want em dead, they're gone, and for a foreign power to step in and meddle is to guarantee that even the ones who hate the sumbitch will attack YOU, because he is *their* sumbitch to deal with, not yours.

Sure, islamic fanatics *at this time* may be worse in behavior than christian fanatics, but history has endless cycles where various religions have gone through reformation and moderate policy, as well as cycling back into fanaticism, which fanaticism is something the nature of most religion itself encourages.

Just because a serial burglar is taking a week off and not currently at the moment burgling a house, doesn't mean imma scrap and sell my alarm system, oh hell no.

ALL of these zealots are a threat, but the ones that are a threat to ME are the ones HERE.

Maybe you can't understand that, maybe you're too drenched in religious and racial hatreds to see threats outside of your narrow worldview, or maybe even you can't comprehend it cause you're one of them and thus they are no threat to you - hell in that case you might not even see a problem with it....

I'm pretty sure it just ain't even gonna get across to you, ever, but this much I will say, cause I want it loud and clear even if you never do comprehend it.

To me, YOU.. sound... just. like. them.

Oh, and Jack - get used to it.

When you start to question things people hold so dearly that even attempting to examine the evidence sends them into a fanatic rage of violated "faith", you won't be making very many friends - and questioning "The Lobby" is always gonna amount to a knee-jerk flaming, dude.

Kinda funny how Pagans don't react that way when discussing the inquisitions and the burnings though.

I find the reactions themselves very telling - cause if anything, examining the evidence would lead to a better understanding not only of what happened, but how to better prevent it, as well as a better understanding of all the causes and peoples involved.

It's like a prosecutor in a murder case holding up a weapon in a smeared, cloudy evidence bag 20 feet away and stating that it's the murder weapon... but when the court goes to examine it, screaming "DONT TOUCH THAT!" when anyone tries to even go near it.

At which point you might begin to suspect that ain't the murder weapon.

Anyhow, the basic events are not in doubt, only the scale and methodology.

I'll also note that the iranian president said something a bit different than the radically biased MEMRI mis-translation endlessly touted in the press, and I wouldn't trust MEMRI to translate english to english and no skew it, to be honest.

Anyhow, folks have made their points and explained em, and I don't see any further productive discussion likely to happen here, so imma just stand pat on "agree to disagree" and move on.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 7:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Okay.... how's this. Of course there may or may not have been German propaganda during World War II when the Germans may or may not have been putting Jews and Polocks in the ovens. We've all seen the alleged propaganda pictures before. If this alleged propoganda were to actually have existed in the first place, and the Germans won the war, do you really believe that it would have gone down in the history books as propoganda, alleged or otherwise?

Well we can be fairly safe in the knowledge there was German propaganda, ever read Mein Kampf? Would what we call propaganda today been called such if the Germans had won the war? Probably not (though British and American propaganda of the time is labeled as such), but if you don't mind me asking, so what?

Quote:
To illustrate that I'm not somebody that is racist against Jewish people. You know that, so let's not play games. As far as I'm concerned my uncle is just another one of the guys.

Before I say this I want to preface it, I don't think you're an anti-Semite, but having a Jewish uncle doesn't mean you aren't, Hitler had a Jewish doctor he spoke very highly of. People can compartmentalise some quite extreme antithetical view points.

Quote:
Nor should all Germans be judged on what Hitler allegedly did, for that matter.

Hitler was Austrian, but I get your meaning ;-).

Quote:
1. Jews (see: not all jews, just those who matter and are in power) run the money and the show today. They own Wall Street, they own Hollywood, the run the FED. They are fine associating themselves with white people until it suits them to distinguish themselves as Jewish.

2. Any politician who says that we have no business in Isreal is labeled an anti-semite and risks his political career simply uttering words along those lines. What is there really in Isreal that's worth keeping. What secret lies there that they would have us defend to the point that we may cause World War III because we are simply unable to let the middle east devour it? I'm all for giving any Isrealite safe harbor here, but we need to get our ass out of that business immediately.

If you're talking about the US Gov. seemingly limitless support for Israel, you don't have to look any further than the rapture nuts Christians. These guys think the rapture is on its way, but they need Israel to take over the middle east, and rebuild a few temples first. Its all down to Bible prophecy, apparently. Self fulfilling prophecy, if those nutters get their way.

World War III is a wet dream to those people...

Quote:
It just all seems very convient the way that the people without a nation have so much control over the world and the economy today.

Well technical Israel is a Jewish nation, but I'm not sold on whether they do have disproportionate control in the world.

Quote:
Hey... I could be wrong. It's not as if I'm Mr Iran flat out denying that it ever happened. I wasn't there... maybe the fishiest story that reeks of the most bullshit that I've ever heard of in my life really did somehow happen.

If ever you're in the mood to visit Europe, tour one of the concentration camps.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:42 AM

America loves a winner!

Frem - you EXPANDED the issue of religion, but the hard fact of the matter is, the currrent Islamo-fascists are , by their own admission, RELIGIOUS, so the point of who started it all is moot. It was they who started it, w/ the mere discussion of the 'war on terror' which Ron Paul wants to ignore.
That you're spinning so far off the topic is now getting annoying.

Quote:
You hand out a bunch of biased rightwingnut faery tales from laughable sources and I blow them to fucking powder, is more like it - we've been round and round THAT table often enough Rap, just like here where you pretended to take issue with someones positions... and then when pressed, admitted you did not even know what the fuck they WERE.

More empty hyperbole on your part. Stick to the facts or shut the fuck up. Stick a sock in your bloviating blow hole.

Quote:
Compasssionate Conservativism, Christian Values, Spreading Democracy etc...call it what you will, it's all the f-ing same. A world wide culture of terrorism which uses Christianity as it's front while committing every known atrocity known to man. In the 21st century."

Here, fixed that for you.

No, you stuck your head up your ass changed Islamo-fascist to something inapplicable, and then tried to paint everything w/ the equivocal paint brush of yours, becaues you're too much of a pussy to face the facts.

Quote:

Fact is, no matter how powerful a dictator is, if ENOUGH of their own people want em dead, they're gone, and for a foreign power to step in and meddle is to guarantee that even the ones who hate the sumbitch will attack YOU, because he is *their* sumbitch to deal with, not yours.

Stalin, Hitler, Pot, Mussolini, Kim Jong- il, Saddam Hussein,....do you REALLY need me to go on? Sorry to have to do that to you, but you asked for it.

Quote:
Sure, islamic fanatics *at this time* may be worse in behavior than christian fanatics,

....and what fuckihg do are we living in NOW? Are we living in the Dark Ages of Europe? Nope. we're having to deal w/ these zealots NOW. Or, at least some of us want to deal with them. Others simply want to whine and bitch that EVERY religion has its brigands,and who are we to defend ourselves from one group over another ? HINT: Because they threaten life in OUR time.

" Blah blah blah..narrow world view and religious hatred "

And thus the debate ends. Say goodnight, Gracie.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 8:57 AM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Wow.... nice. Now you're just playing games with me.

Actually, I'm not. I'm making a fairly serious point about conspiracy theories. Once you veer into that territory, all bets are off. I'm not saying that the conspiracies themselves aren't true, but you can drive yourself crazy going down this path. If you doubt all the information that's out there, how can you maintain any convictions at all?

My litmus test is the overall plausibility of the proposition. Now, the idea of millions of people being systematically exterminated is hard to believe. But you're asking people to believe that there was a worldwide conspiracy to fake the holocaust. It doesn't take much consideration to realize how insanely difficult it would be to pull that off, much less maintain it as official history for sixty years.

There's a huge mass of evidence and direct accounts indicating that the Holocaust happened. You'll have to do better than some imagined Jewish cabal to build a convincing argument.

Quote:
...Germans won the war, do you really believe that it would have gone down in the history books as propoganda, alleged or otherwise?

Yeah, I think it would have. Attempts to hide the truth on the scale you're suggesting inevitably fail in the long run.

Quote:
You, however, turned that around on me and said that my Uncle must be evil because he is Jewish or some such nonsense.

Uh, no. I didn't. I was suggesting that if you think Jews have access to some secret nexus of power, then you should tap your uncle. I was pointing out the silliness of basing this kind of paranoia on race. Sure, some Jews are rich and powerful. But far more Christians are rich and powerful. What are they up to?

Quote:
I don't believe anything I didn't witness with my own eyes, and even then I still question a hell of a lot of it.

But aren't you a Christian? Do you question the bible with the same rigor?

Quote:
1. Jews (see: not all jews, just those who matter and are in power) run the money and the show today. They own Wall Street, they own Hollywood, the run the FED. They are fine associating themselves with white people until it suits them to distinguish themselves as Jewish.

You describe Jews as though they have a unity of purpose that defies logic. Do you really think that the kind of strong-willed, independent personalities it takes to achieve that kind of success are likely to take orders from Jew-Central? Sure, there are a lot of successful Jews. So what? It doesn't prove, or even vaguely suggest that there's a conspiracy involved.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:04 AM

No offence meant frem, cause some of that was pretty spot on, but it seems you've given AU the excuse he needed to wriggle out of having to stand up and face his bigotry

.

Not that trying to speak to him rationally was getting any of us anywhere, so maybe thats a good thing?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:28 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
No offence meant frem, cause some of that was pretty spot on, but it seems you've given AU the excuse he needed to wriggle out of having to stand up and face his bigotry .

Not that trying to speak to him rationally was getting any of us anywhere, so maybe thats a good thing?

A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.

Sorry Citizen, but that ain't me either. I'm quite open about my distain and even hatred for low life scum who want to impose their world view onto me and others. What I don't understand is why these muslim zealots can't live their lives and let others carry on with theirs. No, instead , they feel the need to cut off heads of little Christian girls on their way to school in the Philippines, or blow up a produce market in Iraq, Egypt or Pakistan. Why can't they be more like the Ammish , who live primarily in the state of Pennsylvania, here in the USA. They geneally keep the themselves, adhere to their religous teachings, shun the modern life, for the most part, and are to my understanding agreeable folk.

It's not folks who are different that I dislike, it's when they use their differences as justification to rape, murder and destroy that which isn't deemed 'acceptable' to THEIR religion.

Fact is, you have it 180 degrees backwards. But then, you'd never be man enough to admit you were wrong. At least everyone else knows. And that's all that matters to me.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:39 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
It's not folks who are different that I dislike, it's when they use their differences as justification to rape, murder and destroy that which isn't deemed 'acceptable' to THEIR religion

Does that spread equally in ALL directions?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Fact is, you have it 180 degrees backwards. But then, you'd never be man enough to admit you were wrong. At least everyone else knows. And that's all that matters to me.

Strange how it's that last post you chose to respond to.

Whatever man, you're spouting stuff that wouldn't look out of place in Mein Kampf, but I'm the bigot because, erm, well you can't seem to work the reasoning for that one out. So yeah, everyone else knows, like frem said...

YOU. Sound. Just. Like. Them.

Bye AU, go back to your little world. Hopefully you and the rest of the nutjobs will wipe each other out before you harm the decent folk.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 10:03 AM

MAL4PREZ

Hmm. This just makes me sad. I'm occasionally tempted by RWED threads, and this one had potential - I'd like to know a bit about Ron Paul. I'd like to hear a variety of opinions, from blues and reds and all those in between.

But - why is there always someone like Rap who ends up posting nothing but a vomit of anger and bitterness? More to the point - how did Kaneman get that "offensive" tag? I think Rap's last post earns him something like that. What was the point of it? Besides throwing insults and profanties? Was there something I missed? [Edit: I mean the post that included: "Stick to the facts or shut the fuck up. Stick a sock in your bloviating blow hole." Nice. Really. Are you in third grade by any chance?]

Rap - would you talk like this if your mom was in the room?

Whatever. I'm going back to the BSR world, where at least we're polite and respectful when we disagree. Maybe I'll check in here again in a month or so. Maybe Rap'll be on some good meds by then.

No wonder the RWED crowd is constantly shrinking.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 11:49 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
But - why is there always someone like Rap who ends up posting nothing but a vomit of anger and bitterness? More to the point - how did Kaneman get that "offensive" tag? I think Rap's last post earns him something like that. What was the point of it? Besides throwing insults and profanties? Was there something I missed? [Edit: I mean the post that included: "Stick to the facts or shut the fuck up. Stick a sock in your bloviating blow hole." Nice. Really. Are you in third grade by any chance?
Rap - would you talk like this if your mom was in the room?

Just curious Mal, you happen to read Frem's post? Is it the content or the delivery of Au's post you find disagreeable?

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 12:57 PM

LEADB

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
... More to the point - how did Kaneman get that "offensive" tag? ...

Ah, finally, something I can talk to, and maybe not lose my head.

Because Kaneman can be really ... um... offensive. When he gets going, he can make sailors blush, and blow the steam pipes off a steam ship. And, obviously, someone complained. Apparently, he was rated bad enough to get a label rather than a ban. I don't know if there was a specific instance, but I've seen enough over the months to 'understand' how someone might complain about some of his posts.

Personally, I just ignore his swear words and dig out the content. He posts some good stuff. And some worthless stuff (but so do we all, eh?)

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:12 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
It's not folks who are different that I dislike, it's when they use their differences as justification to rape, murder and destroy that which isn't deemed 'acceptable' to THEIR religion
Does that spread equally in ALL directions?

Yep.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:18 PM

America loves a winner!

Oh, so citizen, you deny that little Christian girls were beheaded in the Philippines on their way to school by Muslm radicals? Or that Muslim radicals blow up crowds of innocent people, from Spain, England, Russia, Iraq, Pakistan, Egypt, Bali....pretty much all around the world.

You REALLY deny that, huh?

Seems the famous Chamberlain spirit of tucking tail and running away is still alive and well in jolly old England. Can't very well face a enemy when you close your eyes and pretend isn't there in the first place, now can you??

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 4:32 PM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by mal4prez:
But - why is there always someone like Rap who ends up posting nothing but a vomit of anger and bitterness? More to the point - how did Kaneman get that "offensive" tag? I think Rap's last post earns him something like that. What was the point of it? Besides throwing insults and profanties? Was there something I missed? [Edit: I mean the post that included: "Stick to the facts or shut the fuck up. Stick a sock in your bloviating blow hole." Nice. Really. Are you in third grade by any chance?]

Rap - would you talk like this if your mom was in the room?

First of all, I speak hard, honest truth. That you wish things weren't as harsh as they really are, isn't my fault. Tell me it doesn't make you angry to see Muslim terrorist rape and murder almost 300 CHILDREN in Breslan, Russia. Tell me you're fine w/ the 100's of dead civillians in Spain and England , blown up on rail lines by - yes, Muslim terrorist. I'm sorry, but 9/11 was the last straw for me. After 10 yrs of having seen Muslim terrorist attack everything from Embassys, Apt Buildings, Night clubs and using airlines as missles, I'm not going to lay down and left folks forget who it is that's doing these crimes. Theo Van Gogh died because he was making a film about the real abuses of muslim women at the hands of their fundamentalist muslim men. And you call MY post "nothing but a vomit of anger and bitterness?" . \

You have to be kidding me!

I only respond to folks w/ profanity when THEY start off w/ the vulgarity, not I. Sorry, but I'm not a fan of being referred to as a " fucktard " simpy because the writer doesn't like my point of view. He/she can piss off, for all I care, but of course you won't address those who hurl the stones first, now will you? I wonder why that is. Hmmm.

And as for my mom, she knew me as well as anyone. She knew I didn't speak up unless I had something I wanted heard. And she knew of my temper, that if I was pushed far enough, there's no place anyone can hide to escape me. Not proud of it, and there are times when I wish I wasn't like that, but somethimes when what's right is right, it needs to be said. Even if I go too far and end up alienating those who might see my point of view, I don't care. Another reason why I'll never run for political office.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:21 PM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

You REALLY deny that, huh?

Seems the famous Chamberlain spirit of tucking tail and running away is still alive and well in jolly old England. Can't very well face a enemy when you close your eyes and pretend isn't there in the first place, now can you??

No, we just chose not to let fear cause us to make irrational generalisations. Since you brought up the war, do you really believe that all German's were Nazi's just because some of them were? Of course not.

Al Queda, even by the most generous estimates has fewer that 100,000 members, fewer than the active number of Nazi party members in Germany during WW2. If we can accept that not all German's are Nazi's then why think all Muslims are Jihadists?

There is a certain type of angry person that sees themselves as persecuted and are prone to radicalisation. These people gravitate towards groups with similar beliefs, that's where you get your brown shirts, your Bader-Meinhoff, your Ba'athists, your Jihadists, Klansmen, and white supremisist militia nutjobs from. They are the same kind of person they share the same kind of mental defect, they are attracted to specific groups only because of culture or opertunty but are otherwise interchangable. If you REALLY think that every Muslim is your enemy because of a handfull of their nuts then you should have bombed the shit out of every trailer park and redneck hangout south of the mason-Dixie line after Oklahoma City.

The best way to deal with this situation is to beat the crap out of the guilty when you can find them and keep a sensible sense of proportion otherwise. Worse two things you can do is live in fear and let that fear make you do stuff that's stupid.

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007 11:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Auraptor
Oh, so citizen, you deny that little Christian girls were beheaded in the Philippines on their way to school by Muslm radicals? Or that Muslim radicals blow up crowds of innocent people, from Spain, England, Russia, Iraq, Pakistan, Egypt, Bali....pretty much all around the world.

You REALLY deny that, huh?

This citizen-strawman seems to make some really dumb arguments. But then arguments made by real people can be tricky, best to ignore them, am I right?

Quote:
Seems the famous Chamberlain spirit of tucking tail and running away is still alive and well in jolly old England. Can't very well face a enemy when you close your eyes and pretend isn't there in the first place, now can you??

Your racist nationalism aside, this is a really dumb thing to say on so many levels. Britain never had to enter the second world war, a conflict so devastating we'll probably never fully recover from it. We entered into it because our ally was attacked, and we stood up to be counted.

Where was America while her allies were being over-run by one of the most evil regimes in history Au?

This isn't about appeasement, its not about shrinking back from the scourge of some fictional 'International Islam', its about recognising the real threats that are there, rather than focusing on fictional bogey men. Though I'm sure that somewhere between the screen and your head, my argument will be strawmanned into something barely recognisable.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 12:00 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by Fletch2:

No, we just chose not to let fear cause us to make irrational generalisations. Since you brought up the war, do you really believe that all German's were Nazi's just because some of them were? Of course not.

It's not an issue of allowing fear causing me to make irrational generalizations, but FACTS making accurate ones. Why can't you see this for what it truly is, instead of trying to wrap it up in a Politically Correct blankie, making it look far less senister than it really is ?

Quote:

Al Queda, even by the most generous estimates has fewer that 100,000 members, fewer than the active number of Nazi party members in Germany during WW2. If we can accept that not all German's are Nazi's then why think all Muslims are Jihadists?

You're not listening to what I'm saying.

Quote:

There is a certain type of angry person that sees themselves as persecuted and are prone to radicalisation. These people gravitate towards groups with similar beliefs, that's where you get your brown shirts, your Bader-Meinhoff, your Ba'athists, your Jihadists, Klansmen, and white supremisist militia nutjobs from. They are the same kind of person they share the same kind of mental defect, they are attracted to specific groups only because of culture or opertunty but are otherwise interchangable. If you REALLY think that every Muslim is your enemy because of a handfull of their nuts then you should have bombed the shit out of every trailer park and redneck hangout south of the mason-Dixie line after Oklahoma City.

Again, are you intentionally taking my words out of context and confusing my position, or is this some sort of defense mechanism you're displaying, unaware that you're even doing it ?

Quote:

The best way to deal with this situation is to beat the crap out of the guilty when you can find them and keep a sensible sense of proportion otherwise.

Oh, but if we dare to even warter board them to get info out , or make them sleep on a cold, concrete floor, we're called NAZIS! In reality, we show these monsters we catch more humanity than they've ever KNOWN, and we have wussies crying that we're torturing them ! COMPLETE B.S. !

Quote:
Worse two things you can do is live in fear and let that fear make you do stuff that's stupid.

I guess the Brits were living in fear when the buzz bombs were raining down on London, huh? Should have just turned the other cheek and moved on about their day, right ? Please, this 'giving in to fear' crap is EXACTLY what lead up to 10 yrs of bloody attacks by al Qaeda

Ignoring the problem won't make it go away!

Doing something about those who are murdering innocent civilians isn't letting fear rule or way of life. When folks have cancer, you find it, cut it out, and then let the healing take place. Too many are willing to ignore the cancer, and are hoping it will go away.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 12:15 AM

America loves a winner!

Quote:
This citizen-strawman seems to make some really dumb arguments. But then arguments made by real people can be tricky, best to ignore them, am I right?

Translation: I can and will deny Muslms are killing folks all around the world, because it goes against my template of disagreeing w/ AURaptor,plus I have no sincere or rational reply.

Quote:
Your racist nationalism aside,

I've actually made no racist, nationalist remarks what so ever

Quote:
....this is a really dumb thing to say on so many levels. Britain never had to enter the second world war, a conflict so devastating we'll probably never fully recover from it. We entered into it because our ally was attacked, and we stood up to be counted.

Where was America while her allies were being over-run by one of the most evil regimes in history Au?

This isn't about appeasement, its not about shrinking back from the scourge of some fictional 'International Islam', its about recognising the real threats that are there, rather than focusing on fictional bogey men. Though I'm sure that somewhere between the screen and your head, my argument will be strawmanned into something barely recognisable.

So, you blame us for not entering into WW2 earlier as a reply for why you won't do something so simple is recognize the very plain truth of Islamo-fascism, and the very real threat it IS posing to man kind around the world?

Huh.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, November 1, 2007 12:25 AM