Earth-That-Was...Greatest scam in history ! by chrisisall

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Earth-That-Was...Greatest scam in history !

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Saturday, November 17, 2007 07:22
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 3700
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Sunday, November 11, 2007 3:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Uhhh, no, dumass*. I rate the economy by how big the poor class is, the purchasing power of the individual, the wealth of the wealthy vs. the poverty in the streets, etc.
If you just want to go by how many billionaires there are, then certainly, our economy is roaring away, and no little recession will affect that.

*put in for effect only.

Yeah, I think you just proved my point.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Sunday, November 11, 2007 4:40 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Yeah, I think you just proved my point.

What Finn? That I have some political agenda?
All of a sudden you sound so hostile

.

There's three kinds of peeps in this world; those that see social and economic Darwinism as perfectly natural and fine, those that want us to 'evolve beyond that' (to quote Picard), and those that are disconnected from the fray.
I simply want 'humanity' to trump greed, don't you?
That's not ostensibly left OR right IMO.
I have a HUMAN agenda.

...some may see it as a utopian one, I don't know....

So. What do ya think of Ron Paul?

Chrisisall

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Sunday, November 11, 2007 5:34 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Yeah, I think you just proved my point.

What Finn? That I have some political agenda?
All of a sudden you sound so hostile.

I’m not the least bit hostile, though I do think that you are desperately trying to avoid hearing me, which is ironically exactly what you accuse Auraptor of.

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I simply want 'humanity' to trump greed, don't you?
That's not ostensibly left OR right IMO.
I have a HUMAN agenda.

...some may see it as a utopian one, I don't know....

Whatever you want to call it. Nonetheless, you’re still defining the state of the economy by your ideological view and not the actual state of the economy. I have a friend who insists that the Chinese economy is always crap, no matter what’s going on in China, because China is a communist state. My friend’s ideological disagreement with communism prevents him from assessing the true state of the Chinese economy. I don’t see any difference between his point of view and you insisting that the US economy is “bad” because you don’t like greedy rich people. Basically the fallacy that you’re working with here is that if I don’t admit to you that the US capitalist economy is “bad” that means I’m greedy or I condone abject materialism, which is nonsense. What does my condoning abject materialism, assuming I do, have to do with the shape of the US economy?

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
So. What do ya think of Ron Paul?

He’s the Republican answer to Dennis Kucinich.

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Monday, November 12, 2007 12:52 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
you, like many of your ideological comrades
That is so cold-war.

Speaking of comrades, don't you find it the least bit odd that the goals and interest of the old soviet commie types line up exatly w/ the goals and interest of the new greenies ?

Diminish the status of the Western nations, kill their economies, cut back their energy production, while countires like China , who pollute more and more, are barely affected?

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, November 12, 2007 4:12 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I do think that you are desperately trying to avoid hearing me, which is ironically exactly what you accuse Auraptor of.

That's a possibility...*must ponder this*

Quote:
Nonetheless, you’re still defining the state of the economy by your ideological view and not the actual state of the economy.

I was defining the state of the economy by it's effect on the larger group...the same way that you could say a bus that is functioning perfectly and has a good strong engine is doing fine, even though it has a slight hole in it's muffler and floor boards, allowing carbon monoxide to seep into the passenger area and make folks sick.

Analogous Chrisisall

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Monday, November 12, 2007 4:18 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Diminish the status of the Western nations

That's not MY goal...

Quote:
kill their economies

OR that...

Quote:
cut back their energy production

maybe a little, but usage is more my interest...

Quote:
while countires like China , who pollute more and more, are barely affected?

We can't dictate to corrupt Neo-Comms how to clean up their act...

'Splainin' Chrisisall

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Monday, November 12, 2007 7:47 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I was defining the state of the economy by it's effect on the larger group...the same way that you could say a bus that is functioning perfectly and has a good strong engine is doing fine, even though it has a slight hole in it's muffler and floor boards, allowing carbon monoxide to seep into the passenger area and make folks sick.

Not really. You were defining the economy based on values of morality, not any criteria of the function or effect of the economy. Avarice and egocentricity are not economic indicators. They are human flaws. They are moral judgments defining the sins of the people believed to control the economy. When the economy is growing and unemployment is down, the Left-wing types tell you that the economy is doing poorly, because it‘s what they want to believe and what they want you to beleive. It‘s almost a religious conviction. Then when the economy starts to slow, they point a finger and say “See, I was right all along!!” But in reality, they were full of shit from the beginning. The economy just goes up and down like that.

And actually, according to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the US has NOT experienced a real recession since before 1982, when Reagan pulled us out of the recession in the 70s. For the last 25 years, the US has been in an economic boom.

The economy is run by flawed people who all have their various sins to contend with. People like to throw fits about greed, but not all rich people are sons of bitches. Often gluttony gets a pass, but the truth is that there are a lot of people out there who are poor simply because they want their wealth handed to them. There are different points of view about how the economy should deal with these various sins. Some think we need an aristocracy. A wealthy elite to control the economy and bestow upon the peasants the wealth the aristocrats think they deserve. Others think we need a purely Laissez-faire economy where people succeed based on their own ability, and the aristocrats stay the hell away. I lean more towards the laissez-faire side, but in all honesty I like having an aristocrat smite those who might unfairly exploit others disadvantages. Though the laissez-faire side might traditionally be more likely to be a strong economy, there is nothing to say that a capitalist economy won‘t collapse and communism will. An aristocracy, like the Chinese communism or the Nazi regime can be successful. It might not be a place I want to live, but it certainly can have a strong economy. And similiarly with the Left-wing types, just because some people don't agree with the US brand of capitalism, doesn't mean the US economy is bad, when actually it is quite strong.

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Monday, November 12, 2007 8:14 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
just because some people don't agree with the US brand of capitalism, doesn't mean the US economy is bad, when actually it is quite strong.

Okay Finn, thanks for the adjustment. I need to be able to separate my thoughts better.
So, the last 25 years has been a steady rise...it's just that wages haven't grown as fast and cuts in benefits were necessary and layoffs and outsourcing (hi, Abu) caused many to accept lower paying jobs and loans were given to too many who couldn't afford them, but the loans were sold back and forth- so the overall effect of THIS economy was not all so very good for the average person although in measurable $ exchange it was strong.
Do I get it now? I'm really asking, BTW.
(this is all in Chrisisall-dummy-talk, of course

)

Financial wiz Chrisisall

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Monday, November 12, 2007 8:43 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Okay Finn, thanks for the adjustment. I need to be able to separate my thoughts better.
So, the last 25 years has been a steady rise...it's just that wages haven't grown as fast and cuts in benefits were necessary and layoffs and outsourcing (hi, Abu) caused many to accept lower paying jobs and loans were given to too many who couldn't afford them, but the loans were sold back and forth- so the overall effect of THIS economy was not all so very good for the average person although in measurable $ exchange it was strong.
Do I get it now? I'm really asking, BTW.
(this is all in Chrisisall-dummy-talk, of course)

I think that’s a more reasonable position to take. I don’t really know what you mean by the “average person.” I’m pretty average and the last 25 years have been pretty good to me. The economy has exhibited an unprecedented low interest rates, unemployment has been low, both of which help the average guy quite a bit. I don’t like that the US dollar is weak in relation to the Euro, because it makes it more difficult for me to travel to Europe and ultimately might cause an increase in the cost of living. People used to claim that Reaganomics hurt the little guy, but in hind sight, it seems the opposite was true. I’m not disagreeing that there are problems with the economy. The economy is also a big animal though and generally just about anything that ripples through it will have both negative and positive effects. It’s the net effect of those ripples that matter, and I don’t know how well I am at assessing details like that. I’m not ready to say that the net effect of the economy has been bad for the average person. Fletch2 would be a better person to ask, however.

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Monday, November 12, 2007 8:50 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I think that’s a more reasonable position to take.

We 'ave an accord!

Thanks for getting me more precise Chrisisall

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Monday, November 12, 2007 3:13 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
We can't dictate to corrupt Neo-Comms how to clean up their act...

'Splainin' Chrisisall

Spoken like a true watermellon.

Green on the outside, red on the inside.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Monday, November 12, 2007 5:09 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I think that’s a more reasonable position to take. I don’t really know what you mean by the “average person.” I’m pretty average and the last 25 years have been pretty good to me.

People who have the advantage of progressing thru 25 years of work experience may mistake THEIR rise in living standards for an overall rise. But I think it's fari to say that many of us were starving students at one time or another (some of us prolly still are). what you should be comparing is the living standards and prospects of the 25-year-old Finn against the living standards and prospects of a current 25-year-old... not the professionally mature Finn against the greenhorn Finn.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:51 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
We can't dictate to corrupt Neo-Comms how to clean up their act...

'Splainin' Chrisisall

Spoken like a true watermellon.

Green on the outside, red on the inside.

Okay, I'm totally not understanding this remark..."watermellon"...well, I'm not black, so it's not the racist thing...I just plainly displayed my dislike for China's "corrupt Neo-Comm" government, so the "red on the inside" can't mean I'm a commie sympathizer...

I'll admit- I'm lost here, AU.

Curious Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 8:38 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Okay, I'm totally not understanding this remark..."watermellon"...well, I'm not black, so it's not the racist thing...I just plainly displayed my dislike for China's "corrupt Neo-Comm" government, so the "red on the inside" can't mean I'm a commie sympathizer...

I'll admit- I'm lost here, AU.

Curious Chrisisall

Well, in a shock departure from standard AU behaviour

instead of making a point he insulted you. He's saying you're nothing but a communist hiding behind enviromentalism, it's the typical resort of extreme right wing followers who hate the idea of enviromental protection, but just can't work out why.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 8:56 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Chis is nothing like a watermelon. I think he's more like an artichoke......keep peeling back the layers of irony, deception, and hooliganism, and you'll find a sensitive heart.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 9:00 AM

CHRISISALL

Thanks Cit! That clears up everything...except AU's confused mind, that is

.

ChrisisnoNeo-Comm

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:01 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"It’s only a matter of days, maybe minutes, before the world crumbles into dust under the weight of modern industry, fascist America and George Bush."

That's so yesterday's news. It happened quite a while ago.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:03 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"And similiarly with the Left-wing types, just because some people don't agree with the US brand of capitalism, doesn't mean the US economy is bad, when actually it is quite strong."

But living hand to mouth on borrowed money ?

***************************************************************
For the record, what is your definition of a 'strong' economy ?

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:13 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:

But living hand to mouth on borrowed money ?

A strong economy needs not be a substantive one Rue.

If I understand correctly Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:24 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

But now I gotta keep that printing press - I mean washing machine - going all hours.

Yeah, washing machine, that's what I got in the basement.

***************************************************************
:smacks self in forehead: THAT'S what I meant to say.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:35 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
But now I gotta keep that printing press - I mean washing machine - going all hours.

Laundered or printed- if it's accepted, it's real enough.

(I just use my mental powers to make folk think my ones are hundreds.)

The key to the Chrisisall economy

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
We can't dictate to corrupt Neo-Comms how to clean up their act...

'Splainin' Chrisisall

Spoken like a true watermellon.

Green on the outside, red on the inside.
Okay, I'm totally not understanding this remark..."watermellon"...well, I'm not black, so it's not the racist thing...I just plainly displayed my dislike for China's "corrupt Neo-Comm" government, so the "red on the inside" can't mean I'm a commie sympathizer...

I'll admit- I'm lost here, AU.

Curious Chrisisall

By saying we can't tell the Red Chinese what to do, you're sympathizing with their position.

You commie bastard!

It was an attempted joke, keyword "attempted". Don't burn any brain cells frettin' over it.

A hoagie and a Chef's salad contain the same ingredients, only the ratios are changed.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:46 AM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

You commie bastard!

Now I get it Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 1:26 PM

SICKDUDE

Isn't this thread vaguely like another one....

"Your gratuitous jello awaits." - Dr. Helen Magnus, Sanctuary

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:09 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

sigh

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 3:57 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Finn has a definitional problem- again. He uses words to express how he feels, but not with any consistency of meaning.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 4:12 PM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

When you have to borrow money just to pay the interest you might possibly want to re-evaluate the economy.

***************************************************************
Of course that might just be my foolish 'left-leaning' notions.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:53 PM

CHRISISALL

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
When you have to borrow money just to pay the interest you might possibly want to re-evaluate the economy.

Rue, a dude that's pumped on PCP is strong, isn't he?

If you take my meaning Chrisisall

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:33 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
When you have to borrow money just to pay the interest you might possibly want to re-evaluate the economy.

Who is borrowing money just to pay the interset.
What is the principal that people need to borrow money to pay the interest on.
Why is it necessary for people to borrow money to pay interest?
Are these money borrowers a large enough section of the economy as a whole to show up as a statistic?

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Of course that might just be my foolish 'left-leaning' notions.

Who is supposed to be paying the interest on these peoples debts, the government?

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:49 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Who is borrowing money just to pay the interest."
Government

"What is the principal that /people/ government need to borrow money to pay the interest on."
Previous debt (duh)

"Why is it necessary for /people/ government to borrow money to pay interest?"
Because of a mad spending spree compounded by lower income - creating debt. The usual, but in this case perfectly avoidable, debt mechanism.

"/Are these money borrowers/ Is this money borrower a large enough section of the economy as a whole to show up as a statistic?"
Definitely yes.

"Who is supposed to be paying the interest on these /peoples/ debts, the /government/?"
Switch government with people and you have a question.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:21 PM

LEADB

BDN, you fell for it hook, line and sinker.

This is what happens when you run a war and decide to keep it 'off the books' as 'emergency spending'. Every single penny to pay for the war is going straight to debt. Or did nobody tell you that?

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Saturday, November 17, 2007 7:22 AM

SPACEMANSPIFF76

i didnt read all the posts but i will say this much to everyone on here.

we can solve all our problems and live in a perfect agrarian utopia....then the yellowstone caldera will blow and take half of north america with it. so nothing really matters does it? the argument and debates are fun, im not knocking anyone, but i just dont care anymore.

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