michael moore showing the truth by hostile17Now

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Michael Moore is an excellent propagandist, but what does that have to do with truth?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 3:49 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by hostile17Now:
did you know thay shut down his site?

Hmmm...you can log onto a hundred websites and see East European types having sex with anything that moves...included four legged bovine types (or so PirateNews tells me).

If Moore's website is gone...he must be REALLY offensive.

H

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 6:11 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Do you and piratenews discuss bestiality websites often?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 8:53 AM

Hey...stop picking on Michael Moore. Yes, he's had some recent set-backs, who hasn't? Yes, he had to pawn his Joseph Goebbels Truth in Film Award to pay off his delinquent account at McDonald's, but that doesn't matter much to us Moorecoats....we can't wait for his next film masterpiece, rumored to be titled American Arm Pit Hair....The Whole Untold Story.

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 8:57 AM

FREDGIBLET

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Do you and piratenews discuss bestiality websites often?

It's a common subject on boards catering to lawyers.

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 10:54 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Hmmm...you can log onto a hundred websites and see East European types having sex with anything that moves...included four legged bovine types (or so PirateNews tells me).

If Moore's website is gone...he must be REALLY offensive.

well, you apparently know more about Eastern Eurpean bestiality than you do about Moore's website and yet you're willing to pass a (totally uninformed) judgement. Huh. Who would expect a right-wing prosecutor to do something like that?

FWIW I did take a look at Moore's website several years ago. At the time it was about on-par with our RWED.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 10:56 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Apparently it's still up and running.

www.michaelmoore.com

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 3:31 PM

LOL.....

I hate big Gov more than the next guy, but "Michael Moore" and "Showing the truth" belong in a sentence as much as "Waterboarding" and "isn't torture".....

Commie bastard

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 4:01 PM

HOSTILE17NOW

Sites back up.

WTF with the animal thing!, theres just plain sick f@#$ers up on the internet!

I love sicko! A great film that all americans should see and learn to hate the rich right wing a$$holes
that own/outsorce/finacially screw the the working poor aka:us!/ by using and hiding behind
Religion./ and to preach about whats good for this country and it's people. when all thay really only care about ther kin and even more their profit oh whait lets not forget that their dumbing down our youth and most people ! through our media tv/music to make our country to stupid so thay won't know what the word uprising ment if it bit them in the a$$

our time is never up faith we pay for everthing -Angel

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 4:12 PM

KIRKULES

Quote:
Originally posted by hostile17Now:
Sites back up.

WTF with the animal thing!, theres just plain sick f@#$ers up on the internet!

I love sicko! A great film that all americans should see and learn to hate the rich right wing a$$holes
that own/outsorce/finacially screw the the working poor aka:us!/ by using and hiding behind
Religion./ and to preach about whats good for this country and it's people. when all thay really only care about ther kin and even more their profit oh whait lets not forget that their dumbing down our youth and most people ! through our media tv/music to make our country to stupid so thay won't know the word uprising ment if it bit them in the a$$

Is this a joke that I'm not in on or do you get all of your information and ideas from Michael Moore's web site. You should try reading a newspaper or even a book. You'll be surprised whats out there in the real world if you'll just give it a chance.

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 4:14 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by hostile17Now:
did you know thay shut down his site?

Hmmm...you can log onto a hundred websites and see East European types having sex with anything that moves...included four legged bovine types (or so PirateNews tells me).

If Moore's website is gone...he must be REALLY offensive.

H

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ok, that just made me laugh my ass off. Oh Hero, your such a naughty boy. LOL!!!!!

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DON'T FREAK OUT

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 4:20 PM

RALLEM

Don't expect much mourning from me if somebody were to kill Michael Moore.

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 4:32 PM

KIRKULES

Quote:
Originally posted by rallem:
Don't expect much mourning from me if somebody were to kill Michael Moore.

That won't be necessary he should explode on his own any time now.

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 4:32 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I lost faith in Moore’s documentary integrity way back when he made Bowling for Columbine. Back then, I knew enough about NRA activities to know that he fabricated a false timeline regarding when and where Charlton Heston made certain statements.

I later learned that he manufactured the entire ‘open an account, get a gun’ bank segment in the show. The bank, it turns out, had no firearms on hand. When you opened an account, you could select a gun out of a catalog. This gun would be sent to a licensed dealer who would perform the requisite paperwork and Federally mandated criminal checks before releasing the firearm to you. The bank’s vault, referenced in the documentary as having hundreds of firearms in it... Was not at the bank. It was at a separate facility miles away.

Michael Moore entered a month-long negotiation with the bank, making arrangements with the bank president ahead of time, so that he could film the ‘open an account, get a gun’ segment on the premise that it would be good advertising for the bank. Then Moore filmed it as though he walked inside the bank, opened an account, and walked out with a firearm a few minutes later without paperwork or fuss. Misleading stunts such as this seem to be a hallmark of his trade.

An earlier documentary, named Roger and Me, is predicated on him seeking to speak with Roger Smith of General Motors, and not being allowed to do so. The fact that he succeeded in speaking with Roger Smith on two occasions was kept out of the documentary. I suppose it was anti-climactic. He also depicted his General Motors crusade as a one-man war while the town sat idle, leaving out the substantial work being done by the townsfolk to retain the factory and protest its closure.

This filmmaker has ruined his credibility with me, and I understand his films to be nothing more substantial than propaganda. Because of his exposed fact manipulation and scenario manufacture, I can find little point in watching the rest of his repertoire. I would be unable to take his films at face value.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 4:46 PM

HOSTILE17NOW

this does not have a damm thing to do with michael moore

I hated the right since I could walk

oh and when thay aka the man... thought about deporting billy idol ........

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 4:50 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA

Quote:
Originally posted by hostile17Now:
this does not have a damm thing to do with michael moore

I hated the right since I could walk

oh and when thay aka the man... thought about deporting billy idol ........

What did you just say there? Aka? Deporting Billy Idol? I'm generally curious as to the context of those sentences.

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DON'T FREAK OUT

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Thursday, December 20, 2007 5:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
I lost faith in Moore’s documentary integrity way back when he made Bowling for Columbine...

Yup... that whole post about sums up my feelings for the man pretty nicely. His trash is nothing more than the Leftist propoganda equivilant of FOX news.

Don't let Michael Moore think for you. I'd have just as little respect for you if you said that Bill O'Rielly was your idol.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, December 21, 2007 4:32 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
hostile17Now wrote:
Thursday, December 20, 2007 16:01

I love sicko! A great film that all americans should see and learn to hate the rich right wing a$$holes
that own/outsorce/finacially screw the the working poor aka:us!/ by using and hiding behind
Religion./

Sicko, like virtually all of Moore's work, is a piece of go se. Misleading premises and false conclusions is the way of Double Cheese Moore. What about all the all the rich LEFT wing a$$holes who use and promote those off shore companies, screw the poor by pretending to be FOR them, while doing nothing to help them? America is a land of FREEDOM, where folks can make what ever choices are best for them, and not have the nanny state control their every thought and move.

What about the Left wing religious zealots who think Jesus was a communist ? Spare me your witless diatribe.

Our education gets more gorram money than any country in the world, yet we're being told we need to spend MORE and MORE, by these same Left wing , bed wetting liberals who tell us the US is the cause of man made global warming ( which is a myth ) as our kids continue to lag behind the rest of the world in Math and Science . Thank you, Teachers Unions

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, December 21, 2007 6:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by hostile17Now:
this does not have a damm thing to do with michael moore

I hated the right since I could walk

oh and when thay aka the man... thought about deporting billy idol ........

This post, and your previous one too, clearly shows that at least part of what you're trying to communicate is true....that you have been "dumbed-down".

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Friday, December 21, 2007 6:56 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Nonetheless most people feel our health-care system is broken. And compared to other developed nations, it is: We spend more $$ for less care than anyone else, and our health stats show it. So does our overall lack of "productivity". (Health care sucks too much $$$ from other companies.) Set Michael Moore aside and look at the facts from other sources. What you will find will shock you more than MM did.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 11:18 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I didn't know about this topic except through the Michael Moore website. The sad ending of the story, however, made it to CNN.

Teen dies hours after liver transplant approved
After protest outside California office, CIGNA Healthcare gave OK Thursday Girl died about 6 p.m. on Thursday

Quote:
GLENDALE, California (AP) -- A 17-year-old died just hours after her health insurance company reversed its decision not to pay for a liver transplant that doctors said the girl needed. Nataline Sarkisyan died Thursday night at about 6 p.m. at University of California, Los Angeles, Medical Center. She had been in a vegetative state for weeks, said her mother, Hilda.

"She passed away, and the insurance (company) is responsible for this," she said. "They took my daughter away from me," said Nataline's father, Krikor, who appeared at a news conference Friday with his 21-year-old son, Bedros.

www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/conditions/12/21/teen.liver.transplant.ap/inde
x.html

---------------------------------

the insurance companies

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Friday, December 21, 2007 2:35 PM

HOSTILE17NOW

I'm not dumb! just trying to make humor!

theres only one idol and he's not american.

rebel yell/white wedding/eyes without a face etc.

and no I don't trust michael moore

I just liked the movie sicko, It makes a point

we pay our taxes

why should we not have free health-care...

for those who don't like me I love you anyway!

marry christmas I love you all......peace...

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Friday, December 21, 2007 3:37 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Well, a while back I was speaking to my friend in England, and was horrified to learn that 70% of his modest income was paid towards the various taxes of the land.

Now, you may be in favor of socialized medicine, and I completely understand the moral imperative behind that... But please debase yourself of the notion that socialized medicine is free. The related taxes are astronomical.

I myself would enjoy seeing taxes reduced, not increased. Of course, I am fortunate to have a good job with fair insurance. I might certainly feel differently if I had a minimum wage job and no insurance. A high tax percentage of my meagre income would then be a pittance, and the reward received in exchange would have huge value.

Meanwhile, the folks earning decent wages would be subsidizing the poorer elements of society. I am in favor of charity, but not compulsory charity. I don’t like the idea of forcing people to give money to the needy.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, December 21, 2007 4:04 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Meanwhile, the folks earning decent wages would be subsidizing the poorer elements of society. I am in favor of charity, but not compulsory charity. I don’t like the idea of forcing people to give money to the needy.

What about building bridges and roads? Public education? Funding the military? One could always say that the rich subsidize the poor whenever it comes to taxes, but then one could always make the argument that investing in "the commons" creates a good that no person, no matter how wealthy, can create for themselves by themselves.

In fact, I just heard a presentation that says that if you live in a highly segregated city, no matter how wealthy your are, your health care will be worse than an equally wealthy person who lives in a less segregated city.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 4:49 PM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

Any extreme can be detrimental. I recognize, for instance, that funding a common military is necessary to the survival of the country and its people.

But at some point, I feel a curve is reached where there stops being a monetary incentive to excel. A point of diminishing returns, if you will.

When more than half your income is dumped into taxes for the ‘common good,’ I feel that you begin to approach that point. I do not think that ‘total socialism’ is a good system, and I’m not entirely comfortable with empowering the government to take the majority of my wealth in exchange for taking care of the majority of my needs.

In my philosophy, the government exists to protect you and empower you to take care of yourself. At some point along the road to socialism, the government stops being a protector and enabler and instead becomes a demanding caregiver lacking in innovation or efficiency, and that’s where I feel it all breaks down.

To be completely honest, I also don’t like seeing people languish without adequate medical care. It hurts my heart, if you will. I wish I could find some balance between the two where I felt comfortable.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, December 21, 2007 7:13 PM

KAREL

Flying on duct tape and a damaged registry.

Let's lock Michael Moore and a prominent Neo-Con in a room. We could then find out what is really going on for ourselves.

"This is the 21st century, can't you get it through your head? This ain't the way it was meant to be, magic isn't dead." -- Marillion.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 10:22 PM

Anthony... again, I must say that I agree with everything you've stated so eloquently. If people want to pay more of their money for medical care, go for it. Just don't take mine.

I'm not by any means rich and it's really hurting my pocket book when concentrated orange juice costs me twice what it did two years ago. Add on top of that the insane smoking taxes and the $1.00 per pack increase starting January 1st, and I'm borderline poor unless I quit, which I have no plans on doing.

And I know that when I have lung cancer at 55, there ain't going to be a dime of those taxes left for me to get medical help.

I'm already paying the taxes signy and I'm not going to be cared for. How much more do you suppose I should pay? You want me to pay 80% of my income in taxes while I lose more every year that the inflation rate dwarfs my measley "cost of living" increases?

What's even scarier is that John Edwards is on MTV saying that the Government should pay for every child to go to college. WTF is happening!

If you want government healthcare and college, go to Canada. You'll be missed.

I'm not trying to be rude here, but I'm going to have to get one of those jobs American's don't want and work for money under the table soon. I'll be taking home more every week than most white collar folk.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, December 21, 2007 10:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by hostile17Now:
I'm not dumb! just trying to make humor!theres only one idol and he's not american. rebel yell/white wedding/eyes without a face etc.

and no I don't trust michael moore I just liked the movie sicko, It makes a point we pay our taxes why should we not have free health-care...

for those who don't like me I love you anyway!

marry christmas I love you all......peace...

Heh... I don't think it be possible for me not to like you. Just the way you write makes me giggle a bit. And that's a good thing.

I do believe that you've been mislead quite a bit and I don't blame you for it. That's Mr. Moore's fortay, and that of his leftist cohorts.... pull at the heartstrings of idealistic people who generally don't know much about taxes or the real cost of things and lead the proles to communism like the Pied Piper.
'
BTW... we've never talked before, so before you take me for a Republican idiot, I figured I'd just let you know that I'm one of the original Bush haters. I hated him before it was cool. I have said that he will singlehandedly bring down America and usher in the New World Order. I've been quoted as saying that he is not a Christian at all and he is keeping the seat warm for the Anti-Christ.

If there's anything I hate more than a Democrat, it's a Neo-Con Rethug.

Hope your feelings didn't get hurt by anything anyone said in here. We're a mean group sometimes and we tend to bite, but we're really not bad people. Just VERY opinionated.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, December 21, 2007 11:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I'd just let you know that I'm one of the original Bush haters. I hated him before it was cool. I have said that he will singlehandedly bring down America and usher in the New World Order. I've been quoted as saying that he is not a Christian at all and he is keeping the seat warm for the Anti-Christ.

If there's anything I hate more than a Democrat, it's a Neo-Con Rethug.

Hope your feelings didn't get hurt by anything anyone said in here.

Greetings 6ix,
How's life on planet Psychotropic? Just kidding!... By the way, I think when they burn Bush & Cheney at the stake ( preferably together ) before the B. Heussien Obama Inauguration, the newly-sworn Committee of Public Safety will have an awards ceremony honoring those Top Ten who have hated the dastardly duo the longest and the deepest. I'll be pulling for you. Good Luck and a Merry White Christmas.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 11:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Greetings 6ix,
How's life on planet Psychotropic? Just kidding!... By the way, I think when they burn Bush & Cheney at the stake ( preferably together ) before the B. Heussien Obama Inauguration, the newly-sworn Committe of Public Safety will have an awards ceremony honoring those Top Ten who have hated the dastardly duo the longest and the deepest. I'll be pulling for you. Good Luck and a Merry White Christmas.

LOL... why's it always gotta be black and white with everybody. We're never going to heal as a nation if we keep looking at every possible question as having only two possible answers.

Merry Christmas to you too Jongs.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 12:15 AM

Your pleasant and humorous understanding is a true kindness and much appreciated. Sometimes I can't even remember what I used to do before Firefly & the Bush Era war of words, deeds, and ideas.

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 1:48 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Well, a while back I was speaking to my friend in England, and was horrified to learn that 70% of his modest income was paid towards the various taxes of the land.

I don't know what they're doing wrong, but I earn what could at least be called a modest income (it let me buy a house off my own wage in a time when most first time buyers are couples), I have more out goings from my pay packet than taxes (pension, student loan etc) and my total deductions this month were about 28%.

As for related taxes, the British government supplies a lot more government services than the US, that's why taxes are higher. I can tell you exactly what my healthcare contributions are, because they're shown separately as national insurance payments. My national insurance payments came to about ~8% of this months pay, and compares favourably with private healthcare costs. I actually would have paid a lot less, but this months pay was elevated a bit because I submitted two months overtime this month as I forgot last month.

Basically, if your friend is paying 70% in taxes, firstly most of those don't go on healthcare, and second they probably did their math wrong. My deductions didn't even break 30%, and even VAT isn't going to bump that up to 70%.

The only way to tell how much is being spent on healthcare is GDP spending. The UK is about 6%, and the US is about 14%, so UK taxes may be high, but we spend less on healthcare than the US, and have wider coverage.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:44 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello Citizen,

With your taxes not exceeding 28 percent of your income, that's a very different story than the one painted for me.

But what's this VAT? Maybe it has bearing.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 9:46 AM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
Hello Citizen,

With your taxes not exceeding 28 percent of your income, that's a very different story than the one painted for me.

But what's this VAT? Maybe it has bearing.

The 28% are total deductions, not just taxes, a big bite of that 28% are non-tax deductions (deducted by work and student loans company), though I haven't discussed council tax which is paid separately and is based on the value of your home. My council tax runs at around £124, with a living alone allowance, it's down from £160. Both those figures are below my non-tax deductions, which run at about £240 depending on how much I earn. What I'm saying is that 28% isn't a perfect figure, but more or less gives an upper limit for the standard deductibles including council tax based on my pay. I'm in the 25% salary tax bracket, the upper limit for people being paid over £37,295 is 40%, but this is charged only on earnings over £37,295, earnings under that are still taxed at 25%, and earnings under £4,000 aren't taxed at all.

There is of course taxes for various things, import/exports, stamp duty when buying a home over £125,000, but the only other everyday cost I can think of would be VAT (Value Added Tax) which is 17.5% of any goods you buy. I'm not sure if you have something like that in the States, but essentially it's cost of goods + 17.5% = what you pay in the shops, with the 17.5% going to the government. There's higher duties on Alcohol, Tobacco and Petrol, but still I'm not sure how any of these could push the final figure all the way to 70%.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 10:19 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

We have a sales tax in certain states that ranges from zero to about 10 percent.

Seventeen percent is pretty steep. Looks like even getting taxed at the maximum rate would be 40% from income, 17% from purchases, giving a worst case scenario of 57%. Not as bad as I was led to believe.

Hyperbole may play a part, here. Perhaps it's like when I complain I haven't got anything left after taxes. ;-)

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 10:22 AM

Freedom is Important because People are Important

On the other hand...

Seventeen and Seventy sound a lot alike. He might have been complaining about the VAT?

With your weird foreign accents, it's hard to tell. Why can't you people learn to speak English? ;-)

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 1:55 PM

CITIZEN

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
We have a sales tax in certain states that ranges from zero to about 10 percent.

Belied by my simplistic explanation, VAT is not exactly a sales tax. Apparently Michigan is the only state in the US that has a Value Added Tax.

Quote:
Seventeen percent is pretty steep. Looks like even getting taxed at the maximum rate would be 40% from income, 17% from purchases, giving a worst case scenario of 57%. Not as bad as I was led to believe.

Not exactly, the 40% is only on earnings over £37,000. That is if you earn £50,000, £4,000 will be tax free, £33,000 will be taxed at 25% and the remaining £13,000 will be taxed at 40%. That will give you an effective tax rate on the whole £50,000 of about 27%.

Further, the 17% is only on things bought and paid for, but not all products/services are charged at that rate. Some things, like food do have a VAT levelled on them, but it's at a rate of 0% (don't ask me, I only live here), and others are at 5%. Its basically impossible to get a full effective increase of 17% of paid tax from VAT, because you'd have to spend all of your money on goods or services charging VAT at 17.5%. Since some of that money has already been taken as other taxes by the government, that's truly impossible. It's possible that I'm missing some tax here or there, but I really can't think of anything.

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
With your weird foreign accents, it's hard to tell. Why can't you people learn to speak English? ;-)

You peoples should speaks the proper German Queens English like what I does.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 4:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Your pleasant and humorous understanding is a true kindness and much appreciated. Sometimes I can't even remember what I used to do before Firefly & the Bush Era war of words, deeds, and ideas.

No problem Jongs.

Sometimes it's important that we take a step back and realize that even though we might not all agree on who the real enemy is, it certainly isn't each other. Merry Christmas to ya.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 4:25 PM