Doing something positive by SignyM

Cheney!

You dems are on your own though. I'm not holding my breath after you dropped the ball after getting voted in.

Just make sure you get those bastards out before Bush declairs himself emperor. A'ight?

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, December 21, 2007 3:51 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Since Conyers is being browbeaten by the Dems NOT to look into the misdeeds of the Bush/ Cheney administration, others Dems are taking the bull by the horns. So if you want to add your voice to the chorus of Cheney! go here....

Yeah, spend the next year having hearings. That way Congress, already the most hated branch of government (thanks Nancy) will get nothing done...just like this year. And come November next year folks will be voting Republican cause like em or not...they got bills passed.

Did any of you notice how a huge number of folk, nice working types like myself, will have their tax returns delayed by several months because the Democratic Congress took so long to deal with the Alternative Minimum Tax problem? Merry Christmas, you'll get your check in July (maybe).

H

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Friday, December 21, 2007 4:20 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Aside from pure and petty political vitriol, what possibly can anyone bring up against Cheney or Bush that would warrant impeachment? Nothing. I find it sad that so many find it their life's mission to spread hate and loathing toward those from an opposing party for the sole sake of vilification.

Trust me, I know, it all comes down to nothing more than Dems thinking Gore won the 2000 election, hating Cheney for his brilliance in positioning himself and becoming a very wealthy man, to not liking Bush for the way he talks. There's no criminal act here, none what so ever, which is what is making the Dem party look all the more frivolous and inept. Its even sadder to know there are some Dems who'll stop at nothing, including trying to rip apart their own country, to claim some sort of victory over those who aren't the real enemy.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, December 21, 2007 4:23 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
You dems are on your own though.

6ix: Youre a smart guy but sometimes.... I'm not a Democrat, so stop putting me in that basket, it's insulting. But have you never heard of playing one off against the other? You have to pull hard in one direction in order to move everyone a fraction of an inch.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 4:55 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I must place my vote with the likes of Hero and Raptor on this one.

After losing 9 rounds out of a 10 round boxing match, it's too late to pin your hopes on a last-minute knockout. Even Rocky didn't lose every single round of the fight until the last.

Trying to impeach the president (and get rid of the vice-president at the same time?!) will occupy months of time and give Congress another do-nothing year as they race to get rid of leaders who are about to leave office.

If the President and Vice-President have done anything illegal, then by all means prosecute them once they've left office. It's too late in the game to try and boot them now.

The only race that Congress should be engaged in is the race to recapture the faith of the American people, because right now, astonishingly, they hate Congress more than they hate Bush.

And that is heartbreakingly sad.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, December 21, 2007 6:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Aside from pure and petty political vitriol, what possibly can anyone bring up against Cheney or Bush that would warrant impeachment?

Well Clinton was impeached for blowing his load in some womans face, and Cheney blew his in some old mans face, just sayin'.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 6:49 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There are two entirely different sets of standards AFA the right wing is concerned: One that applies to "their" guys and one that applies to everyone else. "Because that's different" And that's why they're such hypocrites. Or boobs. I can't figure out which. Maybe both.

AFA pinning your hopes on a a Cheney impeachment ... Sounds more realistic than pinning your hopes on Ron Paul pretty much. But it's not an "either -or" situation. One can do both.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 6:57 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Aside from pure and petty political vitriol, what possibly can anyone bring up against Cheney or Bush that would warrant impeachment?
Well Clinton was impeached for blowing his load in some womans face, and Cheney blew his in some old mans face, just sayin'.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

Hello,

That is hilarious.

But the Clinton impeachment was equally foolish. The Dems need to do better than the Republicans if they desire a victory, not follow in failed Republican strategies.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Friday, December 21, 2007 7:08 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL

Quite frankly, I don’t see why we need to be tying up our government in impeachment proceedings because the Democrats find themselves in the unique position of disagreeing with the policies of a Republican Whitehouse.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Friday, December 21, 2007 7:13 AM

HERO

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Well Clinton was impeached for blowing his load in some womans face, and Cheney blew his in some old mans face, just sayin'.

Clinton was impeached for two reasons. One, he said on TV that 'he did not have sex with that woman'. Two, he said under oath that he 'did not have sex with that woman'. The latter amounted to Perjury. He also took active steps to hide the truth of the affair, which amounted to Obstruction of Justice.

Having sex with that woman...and lets face it, he could have done better (where was the HOT intern? I mean our office has a hot intern...), was never a count on which he was impeached.

For me the issue was not even the lie. It was the President of the United States using the power of his office to illegally obstruct, delay, and hinder an otherwise valid legal proceeding. Its not often the President is ever liable to legal action, in this case he was and he used his Presidential power rather then his legal means to try and deny justice to the Plaintiff (who was a common citizen with few means...aside from some politically motivated backers...but who can blame her, she had a claim but no other resources to pursue it...sometime you take whats available cause you aint got nothing else).

H

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Friday, December 21, 2007 7:36 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

And Cheney, Bush, Rove and Libby have never impeded an investigation?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 7:59 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Ah, no answer I see.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 8:17 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Look....I'm a hard-core Clinton(s) hater...a despiser actually. BUT.....the impeachment against Bill was totally ridiculous!

Henry Hyde (R.I.P.) and his gang of drones & turds went way out on this absurd limb....knowing...damn knowing that they didn't have nearly the votes to get a conviction...but they went ahead and did it anyway. I see THAT moment in time as pivotal in understanding the political wars we've seen in Washington DC ever since.

The Dems & their supporters have a right to have been pissed at Repubs for the last 7 years. The ruttin' guy was the the President for God's sake...sometimes, as a statesman, you gotta look out for the best interest of the country, rather than some petty political gotcha match. In my opinion Repubs lost the high ground during that time. We haven't seen an American statesman since.

And then of course the $ 100 million + that Repubs had the "special prosecutor" spend over many years trying...oh so desperately trying...to find one ounce of dirt on either Bill or Hill...he came up with squat...zero...zilch!
Well at least it gave a lot of jobs to folks in DC ...too bad they pissed away our tax dollars on lear jets, champagne & pastrami sandwiches, and lap dances at K street strip joints.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 8:24 AM

CHRISTHECYNIC

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Since Conyers is being browbeaten by the Dems NOT to look into the misdeeds of the Bush/ Cheney administration, others Dems are taking the bull by the horns. So if you want to add your voice to the chorus of Cheney! go here....

http://wexlerwantshearings.com/

I'm not sure that the chorus is really flip off Cheney since, if memory serves, the last time whether or not to proceed towards impeachment came up for a vote it was the Republicans, not the Democrats, who voted overwhelmingly in favor.

I think the chorus is actually saying, "Waste your fucking time Democrats," and the flip of Cheney crowd is made of several of the participants that simply haven't noticed yet.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 8:34 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Not sure I care a flying fig for DC political games. Sometimes ya just gotta do what's right by whatever means necessary. And if it means a swift kick on the Dems rearends with Repubs helping... well, so much the better!

Irony CAN be amusing.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 9:19 AM

I'm with you signym. I mean, congress can't be much more useless than it is already, right? Might as well waste their time doing something to save our torn-up political system: write it down in history that the VP is not a dictator free to do he will. Give him a damned spanking, slap him right out of office!

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, December 21, 2007 10:43 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

Well look,

there is no political gain to be had by impeaching Bush or Cheney. I think it was something like 44 percent of the population that were in favor of impeaching Cheney, which seems high, but doing so will almost certainly be met with media resistance.

Don't believe me?

Consider that recently, Congressman Wexler of the judiciary commity wrote an open letter to the editors of all the major newspapers addressing to the public the reasons why he thought impeachment of Cheney that has been tied up in his commitee, should go forward.

One of the major prints ran an edited version of it, the Miami Herald, based out of his home state where it would have been harder to ignore.

Pelosi and Reid have taken any such notion off the table. They don't need hail mary's at this point, they both played the game within the rigged rules, sat back and let Cheney and Bush implode the republican party while wreaking havvoc on our nation, and politically that worked...

Barring something unforseen, dems seem poised to pick up even more seats in both houses, and probably the White HOuse.

But their choice lacks integrity or a healthy care for the state of our country. I can understand the eye rolling invovled every time somebody mentions impeachment. It's a costly adventure, one that exposes possible embarassments to our nation, and in this case,would come in the last throes of the Bush Administration, dredging back up ugliness, rather than forging ahead, and possibly deposing individuals who are leaving soon on their own.

But, from the standpoint of a person who has seen numerous accounts of near certain wrongdoing by this administration, I don't see any greater cancer than our continued habit in this country of not holding our Presidents accountable to the rule of law. That's a really bad precedent(and bad pun), and it breeds a certain hit-and-run style of commander-in-chiefing where anything goes, and the only stakes are whether or not you are publically embarassed by your misdeeds at the end of the day...even then most of it will be brushed under the rug by both parties...
sickening.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 10:54 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

There seem to be a lot of politicos on both sides of the aisle in favor of covering up this whole smelly mess. And the press. To tell you the truth, that just makes me more aimed at digging it up. I think the reason why they want it all to go away is because we'd all find out not only how much shit the current Administration was doing, but also Dems and press complicity. (The press which routinely acted as the Bush/ Cheney propaganda organ. Esp Judith Miller.)

Wexler is being shut down by the press, as is Edwards. That should tell you something.

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 11:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
... but doing so will almost certainly be met with media resistance ...None of the major prints ran with it.

Oh, and the press ran with the Iraq war, therefore that was a wise decision?

Hey, I'm not after a Dem victory here, because I don't much faith in them either. What I'm afraid of are the multitude of ways Bush and Cheney have bent the rules of this country all to hell. And sure it started waaaay back, and sure Clinton had his bads, but B and C have taken it to a frightening, frightening place. What's the next president going to do? What if he/she takes it another step the size that B and C have taken? AS it is, they'll be free to do so. Signing statements... the law don't apply to me cause I'm the decider... it's a war if it gets me the power to do what I want, but not a war if I have to follow rules like the Geneva conventions... It's terrifying. These guys have no reins on them at all!

There needs to be a strong statement that the executive branch cannot do as it pleases and thumb its nose at accountability. There needs to be a better precedent (yes, good pun...

) All I've seen of B and C is nose thumbing. That's what truly embarrassing and frightening about our country - these two madmen in charge and running amok. Impeachment would be something to proud of. It would say: See, the US can take down abusers of power without resorting to violence or destroying our system.

Forging ahead is nice, except where exactly are we forging head to? What candidate (besides Ron Paul, the impossible uber long-shot) isn't a whore to corporate America and devisive special interests? And we're handing over the system B and C have built?

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hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, December 21, 2007 11:15 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

my apology for "with"...its an opinion piece..they could have had a rebuttal. I don't mean they should have run "with" it, though that's what I did type, I do mean they should have RUN it. He is a congressman on the judiciary comitte, impeachment of Cheney did come up on the floor, and cloture WAS killed. It seems like a letter to the editors would be relevant printing material in a country concerned with the democratic process.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 11:19 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
It seems like a letter to the editors would be relevant printing material in a country concerned with the democratic process.

I agree. That's the sad thing - if this country does become 1984, it's because we were too stupid or lazy or whatever, as a people, to stand up and stop it.

I think I'll go eat a twinkie and watch football. So much easier on the brain...

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, December 21, 2007 11:21 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

I think I'll join ya. Care for a brewskie?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 1:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I think I'll join ya. Care for a brewskie?

I'm so there for a virtual one! Got a few more hours of hard labor before I can kick back for real... who's the idiot who decided to remodel my basement?

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, December 21, 2007 1:46 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Righteous9:
I think it was something like 44 percent of the population that were in favor of impeaching Cheney, which seems high, but doing so will almost certainly be met with media resistance.

Surely not, not with that massive left wing slant it has

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 4:07 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Well, since you're working in the cold and dank, how about a hot buttered rum? I'll help with the remodel too!

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

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Friday, December 21, 2007 10:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
You dems are on your own though.
6ix: Youre a smart guy but sometimes.... I'm not a Democrat, so stop putting me in that basket, it's insulting.

I stand corrected, and I take it back.

Guess that shoots down Auraptors theory here that it's Demo-libs that are behind this. I'm a Libertarian with Anarchist leanings here

Quote:
But have you never heard of playing one off against the other? You have to pull hard in one direction in order to move everyone a fraction of an inch.

Hmmmm... can you rephrase that for me? I'm having difficulty answering you because I'm not sure what you're asking me here.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, December 21, 2007 10:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthonyT:
After losing 9 rounds out of a 10 round boxing match, it's too late to pin your hopes on a last-minute knockout. Even Rocky didn't lose every single round of the fight until the last.

I'm more concerned with the prospect of infinite overtime.

Quote:
Trying to impeach the president (and get rid of the vice-president at the same time?!) will occupy months of time and give Congress another do-nothing year as they race to get rid of leaders who are about to leave office.

My personal belief is that our own personal liberties are least threatened when our Government isn't doing anything but fighting itself. I welcome a year without any change.

Quote:
If the President and Vice-President have done anything illegal, then by all means prosecute them once they've left office. It's too late in the game to try and boot them now.

In the hypothetical situation you speak of where we haven't impeached them, Bush doesn't crown himself emperor, and they both leave peacefully, I surely do hope we prosecute those thugs to the fullest extent of the law. If they can lock Illinois Governor George Ryan (a man who has never met me but indirectly ruined my life for 5 years in the wake of the Illinois Republican witch hunt of 2001), then they can surely make sure that those men spend the rest of their lives behind bars where they belong.

Quote:
The only race that Congress should be engaged in is the race to recapture the faith of the American people, because right now, astonishingly, they hate Congress more than they hate Bush.

Impeachment would be a good start. Protecting American citizens from warrentless wiretaps would be another great step. After that, striking down communist bills such as the one saying that I should pay another .61 cents a pack of smokes to fund healthcare for kids who's parents could pay for it if they didn't eat out all the time and own an SUV and a bigscreen TV would really start getting my attention.

Quote:
And that is heartbreakingly sad.

I couldn't agree more.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, December 21, 2007 10:55 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
For me the issue was not even the lie. It was the President of the United States using the power of his office to illegally obstruct, delay, and hinder an otherwise valid legal proceeding. Its not often the President is ever liable to legal action, in this case he was and he used his Presidential power rather then his legal means to try and deny justice to the Plaintiff (who was a common citizen with few means...aside from some politically motivated backers...but who can blame her, she had a claim but no other resources to pursue it...sometime you take whats available cause you aint got nothing else).

And people accuse Bush of being dumb.... He learned to burn the books before there was a trial. Personally, I don't know a lot of people who do nearly as well learning from other people's mistakes in my life. I know I don't.

Clinton should have given Monica a pair of cement shoes to go with that stained blue dress....

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Friday, December 21, 2007 11:15 PM

I've noticed in this thread the trend seems to be the closer to Libertarian you are, the more likely you want to see the man impeached, while the further to the Left/Right you are the more likely you are to want to sweep this under the rug.

Curious observation, that....

Only a few months back all the Demons rabidly wanted to see the thugs ousted as much, if not more than I did.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 3:10 AM

LEADB

Dang,it's scary when I'm approaching agreement with Jong ;-)

The republicans set a poor precedent when they started down the impeachment road against Clinton.

If someone can find something that has a serious chance of getting Cheney impeached, I'd be up for it; but honestly, it will likely be either too little or too late. And thus, a poor investment in time. Swept under the rug? That's not my point here, if folks want to investigate I won't tell them not to; and I'd love to see something that looks like subjective truth be found. It is just rare for anything that looks like subjective truth to come out of these proceedings.

I'd rather the Dem's found a pair and started passing bills for Bush to veto. Start passing some small, focussed amendments to repeal the items so many folks have complained about. Clear out the worst aspects of the Patriot act, DMCA, etc. But instead, they just whine about how they can't get things done. Put these things out in plain sight where everyone can see what they 'really' stand for, and let Bush veto them, and then folks can see where the republican party 'really' stands. Or perhaps they don't really care (a conclusion I'm rapidly reaching). And our third party option is... where?

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 4:34 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Clinton should have given Monica a pair of cement shoes to go with that stained blue dress....

Putting women in shredders messes up the motor.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 6:53 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
And Cheney, Bush, Rove and Libby have never impeded an investigation?

---------------------------------
Always look upstream.

Libby was, and got convicted.
Because he couldn't remember the exact order of events from several years before. Big crime, huh?

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Libby was, and got convicted.
Because he couldn't remember the exact order of events from several years before. Big crime, huh?

Nearly as bad as getting head :p

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 7:49 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
I've noticed in this thread the trend seems to be the closer to Libertarian you are, the more likely you want to see the man impeached, while the further to the Left/Right you are the more likely you are to want to sweep this under the rug.

Curious observation, that....

Only a few months back all the Demons rabidly wanted to see the thugs ousted as much, if not more than I did.

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

Hey now,

Don't judge my colors based on my compliance with your desires, Six.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 9:02 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Libby was, and got convicted.
Because he couldn't remember the exact order of events from several years before. Big crime, huh?

Nearly as bad as getting head :p

If you say so, but too bad for Bubba, his antics w/ the chubby intern weren't so forgetable. Except when he was on under oath.

"Hillary tried to get a million dollars for the Woodstock museum. I understand it was a major cultural and pharmaceutical event. I couldn't attend. I was tied up at the time." - John McCain

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 4:31 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Clinton should have given Monica a pair of cement shoes to go with that stained blue dress....
Putting women in shredders messes up the motor.

LOL... Thanks Cit. I just shot Pepsi out of my nose on the keyboard.

Ohhhh it BURNS!!!!

"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack

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Saturday, December 22, 2007 4:31 PM