Media Greasing the Wheels for Gun Ban by Kirkules

REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

Media Greasing the Wheels for Gun Ban

POSTED BY: KIRKULES
UPDATED: Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:54
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Sunday, March 30, 2008 7:37 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"A lot of liberal business owners learned a hard lesson. They expected the police to protect them and their businesses. The cops stayed away. Many of those very same business men, now own guns or employ armed private security, to insure it never happens again."

Actually - having been here for the Rodney King looting I can say the cops didn't stay away. But if you are a cop and facing - oh 3,000 people intent on looting - with your service revolver and perhaps a shotgun and maybe even a spare tucked away - should the crown turn on you, you will go under.

The same is true of the business owners. Once civil order breaks down in a massive way, your gun isn't going to do jack. And if you start shooting then other people will start shooting back and there will be more of them, with more guns than you can handle. And you will go down with your business.

I suppose as you lay bleeding while the crowd walks over you on the way to the liquor or TVs or furniture you could take some phyrric comfort in thinking well, at least you got a few of them.

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I just want to repeat - yet again - a single person with a gun is a small, small force in a very large world.

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Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:17 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Rue, I am well aware of it, considering it's been one of my pet bitches since 1997 when the FBI started drooling over the Soviet SORM-II system.

But you can't *make* people listen, they will or they won't, and you can't *make* them care.

This isn't about numbers, it's about mentality, about attitudes, you understand ?

Look at these mass shootings, as an example - where most folk just compliantly stand there and wait their turn, locked in the freeze of the fight-freeze-flight reaction, perhaps, but mostly it's just conditioned compliance.

The only real hope of overturning that is getting to younger generations and instilling a resistance to that conditioning, a willingness to confront and question authority - but remember what we DO to children who possess that "undesirable" trait, try to medicate it away, or send them off to the camps and crush it out of them.

This one isn't gonna be fought by the current generation, but by the next one, in my opinion, and on that front I am doing all that I possibly can - firepower is NOT what will save us, but it just might be the edge that stays off the claws and fangs of the beast long enough for us to save ourselves.

Kirk ?

Quote:
I think abut 60% of the cops and 90% of the military would be on our side and turn against the Government if it comes to this.

I do not for a second believe that, not after Katrina and seeing the 82nd airborne, whom till that point had a reputation above reproach, march along right to the jackboot drum, and for damn sure seeing cops from other states fekkin come running to volunteer for this stuff...

Especially knowing and having issues with the core corruption of the police as an entity, you're lookin at maybe 15% of the cops on our side, who would mostly just sandbag them internally with intentional mistakes here and there that couldn't be proven, cause they would not stick their necks out for us, people gotta eat, and that takes an income, you understand - and in a police state, being the police is a pretty damn good way to secure that income.

The military, forget it, they do what they're told, maybe 5%, and they would resist in ways that would get them immediately incarcerated or neutralised because military thinking is not forward or complex enough given the brute simplicity of our tactics and training - to ponder such devices as a fifth column...

Such a thing might occur up the line from the ground grunts, but again, not in a public kind of way that would require personal risk.

And the general public ? sell you out for a pat on the head, instantly.

You're right about the Governments incompetence being one factor on our side, but how to best exploit it when no one is willing to stand up and shoulder the axe is problematic at best.

Oh, and can we drop the "liberal" slams ?

Imma freakin Anarchist, about as Liberal as one can possibly get, by the original, undistorted intention of the word, MORE so than any Socialist!

Liberal stems from liber which means "Free" - Liberal means wanting freedom, lack of restriction, openness.

The word "liberal" has NO proper application in respect to someone wanting to TAKE a freedom away, or GIVE away the freedom of others.

Slam them all you want, just use a more appropriate word to do it, ok ?

But no, guns by themselves ain't an answer, but they are PART of the answer, one of the fully-intended checks against Government abuse of power within the Constitution is the arms of the citizenry, and since we have FAILED in our Constitutional Duty to outgun the military, the edge we gain by being personally armed is slim indeed - but it is an edge we MUST retain, to parley that threat to buy time to solve the problem WITHOUT a nihilistic last stand solution.

But if it comes to it, fuck yeah, I'd go down swingin instead of on my knees beggin, I got any choice in the matter.

Maybe more on mentality and just how totally different most Anarchists *are* a bit later, just wanted to get it up front that guns alone ain't gonna do the job, that one we have all but lost already, but if we can hang by our fingernails on the sheer rabidity of the few still defending that right, we can open other fronts to solve the problem.

But supporting us fingernail-hangers wouldn't be a bad idea neither, you know, or at least not helping push us off the edge would be nice, for once.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Sunday, March 30, 2008 10:25 AM

FLETCH2

Small technical point, they are not "tracing" a call. Technically tracing is done real time and in the days before stored program control exchanges had to be done by manually recording the selector positions (that's where the famous "keep the kidnapper talking for 3 minutes so we can trace the call" comes from.) Tracing is knowing who is calling this line "right now."

What you are taking about is data mining. The telephone company knows every call you place, they have to because they bill you for it. Their data center processes calls makes up bills and mails them out. If you had access to those records --- and phone companies usually keep them for 90 days in case you dispute a charge--- you could load them into a database and mine the results for information. Kinda like the Kevin Bacon game, terrorist A calls these people but who do they call? If this person starts calling this person more frequently does that mean an attack is imminent?

A few months back I broke my mobile phone. Normally not an issue since I back up my phonebook, but a friend had just changed her number and the updated one had not been saved. I popped on to my T-Mobile website and pulled up last month's bill and retrieved the number. Look at that sometime if you have online billing and then imagine the use that information might be if some hacker had access to it. You called X at 2:19PM on Wednesday for 4 minutes, that might be all the information necessary if you contend you haven't spoken to X in months. I'm sure folks like Hero can stepena cell phone records in criminal cases right now. It isn't LE access to records that is new, it's what can be done with the data.

Oh BTW, if you have store loyalty cards your grocer does the same thing, the fuel bonus card you have can in theory track your car movements and this is before we even discuss Onstar.

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Sunday, March 30, 2008 11:13 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

I just stopped by briefly - no, they were actually doing real-time transmission to the NSA of which phone number to which. I used the term 'tracing' b/c it's shorter and more understandable than 'pen registers' and 'trap and trace' which would be somewhat more accurate.

Some companies denied they had provided 'records' - as in print-outs of calls records, but did not address whether or not they used real-time data-capture and transmission. Also, they are legally allowed to lie about the subject.

Only Quest announced that they refused access to their operations and records.

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Sunday, March 30, 2008 4:08 PM

ERIC

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:

Quote:
I think abut 60% of the cops and 90% of the military would be on our side and turn against the Government if it comes to this.

The military, forget it, they do what they're told, maybe 5%, and they would resist in ways that would get them immediately incarcerated or neutralised because military thinking is not forward or complex enough given the brute simplicity of our tactics and training - to ponder such devices as a fifth column...

I've always wondered how some of the uber-nationalist types who cream themselves watching "Red Dawn" would react if instead of the Soviets the movie was about the good ol' G.I. Joes occupying their wholesome midwestern town...

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:

Only Quest announced that they refused access to their operations and records.

Ironically as hell, it's actually spelled Qwest, with a W.

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Sunday, March 30, 2008 6:21 PM

FLETCH2

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
I just stopped by briefly - no, they were actually doing real-time transmission to the NSA of which phone number to which. I used the term 'tracing' b/c it's shorter and more understandable than 'pen registers' and 'trap and trace' which would be somewhat more accurate.

Some companies denied they had provided 'records' - as in print-outs of calls records, but did not address whether or not they used real-time data-capture and transmission. Also, they are legally allowed to lie about the subject.

Only Quest announced that they refused access to their operations and records.

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

Then that would be CALEA which is legal and was passed during the Clinton administration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_Law_Enforce
ment_Act

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Tuesday, April 19, 2016 4:16 AM

REAVERFAN

Quote:
Originally posted by Kirkules:
The Democrats have tried to keep the media from bringing up guns before the election, but the media's enthusiasm for baning guns just won't let them remain silent. Bill Clinton blamed the NRA and gun issues for him losing the Congress in 1994 and Dem's were hoping to avoid having this issue lose votes for them this time around. Looks like the media has decided that they need to start greasing the wheels now, so the Dem's can make a gun ban one of their first orders of business if they take the White House.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iofRjmy0-AYAwghvA5oQpVki9OMwD8VL9U8
00

One more dire prediction that never happened. Guns are easier to get, if anything.

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Tuesday, April 19, 2016 11:22 PM

1KIKI

Goodbye, kind world (George Monbiot) - In common with all those generations which have contemplated catastrophe, we appear to be incapable of understanding what confronts us.

Media Greasing the Wheels for Gun Ban ... Wednesday, March 26, 2008 12:11 PM ... It's right around the corner. I can feel it. Any. Day. Now ...

If Hillary Clinton wins in November, it won’t happen because America has gotten over sexism or because the Democrats have forged a pathway to the future. It will be because she was nominated by the party that is dying slowly and somewhat politely, rather than the one that just blew itself up in public with a suicide vest.

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Wednesday, April 20, 2016 11:20 AM

REAVERFAN

Happy 4/20! LOL

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Thursday, April 21, 2016 10:54 AM

JO753

rezident owtsidr

America looks like a bunch uv wakkoz to the rest uv the sivilized world.

The 2nd amendment may hav been a good idea back wen they rote it, but it iznt now.

You and all your gun toting frendz hav no chans at all uv defending yourself agenst the gummit. You and everybody you know coud liv in armored bunkerz with the latest automated sentry machine gunz, anti-aircraft weponz, etc etc etc and you woudnt last a day if Unkl Skam desided you need to be eliminated. So, your 'prevent tyranny' argument iz a foolish fantasy.

Then you got your self defens agenst bad guy argument; 'nothing stops a bad guy with a gun exept a good guy with a gun'. Thats Wayne LaPiere'z sound bite, rite?

Duznt work out so well.

The bad guy haz a gun BEKUZ you hav saturated the country with them! Now, bekuz he iz initiating the event, he haz the drop on you, dummy. So you can hav az many gunz az you can carry, all uv them the finest, most powerful available, and all he needz iz 1 bullet in hiz stolen crappy saturday nite special pointed at you and you are powerless.

And your home defens notionz are less than perfectly lojikl also.

There you are sleeping with the gun under your pillow. Assuming it iz a burglar creeping in the dark and you manaj to aim well enuf to kill him, the BEST outkum iz that you only lost 10% uv your hearing and need to replase the carpet.

The ranje uv bad possibl outkumz gets worse rapidly, up to and including you in prizon for the rest uv your life and def az a turtle.

Now, thats assuming it wuz a burglar. Wut if it wuz a frend, family member, naybor, fireman, cop, or just a drunk guy who staggered into the rong house? Then your precious Glock just flushed your idilic American life down the crapper. Not only are you def and in prizon, but YOU are the bad guy!

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DUZ XaT SEM RiT TQ YQ? - Jubal Early

http://www.nooalf.com

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