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Originally posted by Skywalken:
In this time when the Democratic Party is engaged in race related drama let us take the time to reflect that on April 4, 1968 the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was murdered.

Although he is now with the Heavenly Father, we continue to strive for his dream.

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Originally posted by Hero:
We continue to strive for the day when blacks will stop seeing whites as the enemy and for that glorious future when they will stop seeing themselves as "black" and embrace their equality with the other races.

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Originally posted by Hero:
We continue to strive for the day when blacks will stop seeing whites as the enemy and for that glorious future when they will stop seeing themselves as "black" and embrace their equality with the other races. We dream of that day when their community rejects the racist and hateful rhetoric so common in their community be in their churches, in their music, or in their own homes. We dream of that day when they vote Republican...just to prove they can (and thus earning themselves a real place in both parties). We dream of that day when we can all laugh together, shop together, worship together, watch the Browns win the Superbowl, and vote for President Condi. Oh...and something about little white kids and black kids playing together.

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Originally posted by deepgirl187:

The fact that you seem to lump all black people in that category doesn't exactly reflect well on your character. And that doesn't make you a racist sweetie, just an ignorant asshole.

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Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Well gee, Jongsstraw, when someone insinuates that most black people behave in a certain (very negative) manner, without any regards for the individual, I get a little peeved. That anyone would consider that humor is a bit of a mystery to me. It doesn't exactly do much to encourage positive race relations.]

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Originally posted by deepgirl187:
The fact that you seem to lump all black people in that category doesn't exactly reflect well on your character. And that doesn't make you a racist sweetie, just an ignorant asshole.

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Originally posted by Hero:
Sorry, I was taking Senator Obama at his word when he defended his Pastor's racist rhetoric as being part of the black community.

As for voting Republican...its not about supporting their platform, its about forcing both parties to compete for your vote. Why should Democrats ever work in your interests if they are guarranteed 90% of your vote regardless of what they do? Likewise, why should Republicans work to address African-American issues when they know that no matter what they try to do they will lose 90% of the vote. This is perhaps the biggest failing of the African-American movement...they never progressed from class-based voting, unlike every other minority group. The social progression is from no rights, to suppressed rights, then organization by class (or nationality, occupation, and perhaps geographical location), followed by assimilation by social and economic distinction.

As for lumping people all together, its only natural. By their own choosing I am forced to talk about the black community. If you don't think you fit that community that's between you and them, not you and me.

All I said was that I hoped we could move beyond race at some point and I was critical of the black community and then because you think I'm white you call me an ignorant asshole. Well a white man has as much right to be critical of the black community as a black person. They may not want to hear it...but nobody ever wants to hear it...no matter the color of the commentator, thats why folk like Bill Cosby are occaisonally hammered for encouraging change in their own community rather then lumping all their scorn for percieved white injustice or crazy conspiracy theories.

Nobody in the racial discussion, black or white, is without some measure of blame...in many respects we are all ingnorant assholes. Some by nature, some by choice, and some by mistake. Which are you?

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Originally posted by deepgirl187:
But what I don't agree with is the fact that you seem to be assuming if a certain group of characteristics are true about one group of black people, it must apply to every black person.

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Originally posted by Hero:
Barrack Obama expressed himself on behalf of the entire black community and certainly represents a vast majority of them. Given that circumstance I have every right to respond to him and them in that same context.

Again, if you feel you were unfairly lumped in with them then your argument is with them, not me. It is your repsonsibility to make the distinctions in this case, not mine.

There are exceptions to every rule, that does not make discussion of the rule invalid, nor does it require a person to qualify each exception in the midst of the discussion.

At some point you must take responsibility for your place in your community, even if your place turns out to be at odds with most of the others.

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Originally posted by Hero:

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Originally posted by deepgirl187:
But what I don't agree with is the fact that you seem to be assuming if a certain group of characteristics are true about one group of black people, it must apply to every black person.

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Barrack Obama expressed himself on behalf of the entire black community and certainly represents a vast majority of them. Given that circumstance I have every right to respond to him and them in that same context.

Again, if you feel you were unfairly lumped in with them then your argument is with them, not me. It is your repsonsibility to make the distinctions in this case, not mine.

There are exceptions to every rule, that does not make discussion of the rule invalid, nor does it require a person to qualify each exception in the midst of the discussion.

At some point you must take responsibility for your place in your community, even if your place turns out to be at odds with most of the others.
H

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Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Your (as well as Obama's and his preacher's) opinion about a black community is subjective.

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Originally posted by FineHat:
You know, Hero, the problem I have is that you keep referring to "us and them". George Bush doesn't speak for me just because I'm white. So, why would Obama speak for Deepgirl just because she's black?

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Originally posted by Storymark:
Christ, it only took Hero one post to turn this into a race debate. Bravo, ass.

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Originally posted by Hero:
I don't know you, I do know as much of the black community as I can both through personal experience and the way they portray themselves through their chosen leaders. In that sense you must and have made your voice heard. Thank you, exception noted, however I STILL think my opinion applies to you even if you choose to reject it (as is your right).

I understand how you feel, I'm a lawyer. Now admit it, when you read "I'm a lawyer" you have a negative reaction. Most people do and lawyer jokes are funny. There are a lot of bad lawyers and the legal community deserves the criticism it gets. But I know some really good lawyers, the kind of folks who live up to the noble tradition that our field has despite our bad reputation. I consider myself a part of that smaller group, mainly because justice is my first and last concern for every case (except involving PirateNews...but thats special). I know what criticism belongs to me and what does not, but I recognize that the community deserves the rightful criticism even if I do not. For that I blame the community and my role to advocate the change we need.

So yes, I am lumping you in with them, not intentionally, but because I am talking about them in general and in general you are as much a part of them as anyone.

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Originally posted by rue:
There's a difference between saying "85% of serial kilers are white males" and "white males are serial killers". 'Hero' quite accidentally said what he meant, which is 'blacks are ...'

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And, uhm ...... what's your excuse for defending that ?

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We continue to strive for the day when blacks will stop seeing whites as the enemy and for that glorious future when they will stop seeing themselves as "black" and embrace their equality with the other races. We dream of that day when their community rejects the racist and hateful rhetoric so common in their community be in their churches, in their music, or in their own homes. We dream of that day when they vote Republican...just to prove they can (and thus earning themselves a real place in both parties). ...
H

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Originally posted by rue:
I think it went wrong about here

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Trinity embodies the black community in its entirety - the doctor and the welfare mom, the model student and the former gang-banger. Like other black churches, Trinity's services are full of raucous laughter and sometimes bawdy humor. They are full of dancing, clapping, screaming and shouting that may seem jarring to the untrained ear. The church contains in full the kindness and cruelty, the fierce intelligence and the shocking ignorance, the struggles and successes, the love and yes, the bitterness and bias that make up the black experience in America.

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Originally posted by Veteran:
This post was initiated to honor a great American. As an American I am thoroughly embarassed that it was so quickly turned into race baiting.

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Originally posted by rue:
"who have labled critisism of the black community, as defined by them."

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. Who 'labeled' anything ? And did they go around with one of those labelers or did they use permanent markers or stickies ?

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Originally posted by Righteous9:
you'd have credibility on this issue if I'd ever heard you criticize the white community for its own racism...

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Originally posted by Righteous9:

People who wear pants under their ass have already been judged by you. People who have too many gold chains have already been judged by you...gold teeth? freaks...etc.

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"Operation NORTHWOODS may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government. Operation Northwoods had called for nothing less than the launch of a secret campaign of TERRORISM within the United States in order to blame Castro and provoke a war with Cuba."
—James Bamford, ABC News, "Friendly Fire: U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba", May 1, 2001

"In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba. Code named Operation NORTHWOODS, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities. The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro. America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation." The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years. The Joint Chiefs at the time were headed by Eisenhower appointee Army Gen. Lyman L. Lemnitzer, who, with the signed plans in hand made a pitch to McNamara on March 13, 1962, recommending Operation Northwoods be run by the military. Whether the Joint Chiefs' plans were rejected by McNamara in the meeting is not clear. But three days later, President Kennedy told Lemnitzer directly there was virtually no possibility of ever using overt force to take Cuba, Bamford reports. Within months, Lemnitzer would be denied another term as chairman and transferred to another job. Ironically, the documents came to light, says Bamford, in part because of the 1992 Oliver Stone film JFK, which examined the possibility of a conspiracy behind the assassination of President Kennedy. "The scary thing is none of this stuff comes out until 40 years after," says Bamford."
—David Ruppe, ABC News, "Friendly Fire - U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba," May 1, 2001
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92662&page=1

"We could develop a Communist Cuba TERROR campaign in the Miami area, in other Flordia cities and even in Washington. The terror campaign could be pointed at Cuban refugees seeking haven in the United States. Hijacking attampts against US civil air and surface craft should be encouraged. An aircraft at Eglin AFB would be painted and numbered as an exact duplicate for a civil registered aircraft belonging to a CIA proprietary organization in the Miami area. At a designated time the duplicate would be subsituted for the actual civil aircraft and the passengers, all boarded under carefully prepared aliases. The actual registered aircraft would be converted to a drone. The drone will be transmitting on the international distress frequency "MAY DAY" message stating it is under attack by Cuban MIG aircraft. The transmission will be interrupted by the destruction of aircraft which will be triggered by radio signal."
—General Lyman Lemnitzer, Jewish Zionist chairman, Joint Chiefs of Staff at Pentagon, Memo to Secretary of War Robert McNamara, Subject: Justification for U.S. Military Intervention in Cuba - Operation NORTHWOODS, March 13, 1962
www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf



"I would like to assure the world that I did not plan the recent attacks.”
—Usama bin Laden, CNN, "Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks," September 17, 2001
http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

"9/11 is not mentioned on Usama Bin Laden’s Most Wanted page. He has not been formally indicted and charged in connection with 9/11 because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”
—FBI agent Rex Tomb, June 6, 2006
www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm

"There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas so it's probably in Tennessee. Fool me once, shame on... shame on you. You fooled me, you can't get fooled again."
—President George Bush Jr, sued for rape, sued under RICO Act for perping the terrorist massacres on 9/11/2001

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Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I too judge people not by race, but by deeds, and I do deplore stereotyping.

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