Happy May Day!! by Geezer

WORKERS OF THE WORLD UNITE !!

we'll get that eight hour work day yet !

eta:
"There will come a time when our silence will be more powerful than the voices you strangle today!"

August Spies, Haymarket Martyr

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 4:00 AM

FIVVER

DYSLEXICS OF THE WORLD UNTIE!

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 4:24 AM

or, maybe this would be more appropriate....

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 8:07 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Happy May Day and a rousing chorus of the Internationale to all the Communists and Socialists in Browncoatland. How's that workin' out for y'all anyway?

I wouldn't know Geezer, 'cause we're all trapped in a monpolist society just trying to make ends meet. And we all know how THAT'S working out for us.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 8:34 AM

Personalmente, prefiero el cinco de mayo. Más cerveza por favor.

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 8:39 AM

You forgot Anarchists.

But I see DLV didn't forget Labor and the IWW

And we'll be off shortly to stage our ceremonial sacking of city hall, if our Astaru beer guardians haven't drank themselves insensible like they did last year.

-F

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 8:51 AM

found this....thought it fitting

Five score years so soon are gone
That crown that fateful hanging day,
Yet still the years live on and on
And never will they go away!

Eight doomed martyrs spoke their dreams:
An eight-hour day, their modest hope;
For such effrontery it seems
Four lives were snatched by hangman's rope!

But by a miracle of fate
The voices still ring loud and clear;
The voices stilled by cruel hate
Are heard today, this hundreth year!

So many years have passed them by,
Yet louder still the timeless call
Rings 'round the world, a battle cry
For workers' rights, for peace for all!

Raise high the flag, you workers brave,
March strong and steady, side by side,
On First of May this hundredth year,
So not in vain those martyrs died!

by Susan Kling
May, 1990

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 9:22 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

This is Geezer's brave new world ... from the recent past ...

CHORUS:
You load sixteen tons and what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
Saint Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go,
l owe my soul to the company store.

(SPOKEN)
Down in southwest Kentucky where I was born and raised up,
they have a little sayin' around the coal mines that they get so far in debt
that they owe their soul to the company store.
That's almost a fact because a lot of boys works for years
and never really sees any United States money --
it's all coal miner's money they call flickers or scrip.
Here's a little song about sixteen tons
and you'll notice
that the line in there says he owes his soul to the company store.

Now, some people say a man's made out of mud,
But a poor man's made out of muscle and blood,
Muscle and blood, skin and bones,
A mind that's weak and a back that's strong.

CHORUS
You load sixteen tons and what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
Saint Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go,
l owe my soul to the company store.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 9:27 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT

Quote:
Originally posted by deadlockvictim:

we'll get that eight hour work day yet !

In recent reading, I came across the fact that the 8 hour day movement began, in Ametica, during the Civil War.

Maybe someday , it'll get here.

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 9:58 AM

ERIC

What, no Joe Hill songs???

Long-haired preachers come out every night,
Try to tell you what's wrong and what's right;
But when asked how 'bout something to eat
They will answer in voices so sweet

You will eat, bye and bye,
In that glorious land above the sky;
Work and pray, live on hay,
You'll get pie in the sky when you die (That's a lie!)

And the Starvation Army they play,
And they sing and they clap and they pray,
Till they get all your coin on the drum,
Then they tell you when you're on the bum

Holy Rollers and Jumpers come out
And they holler, they jump and they shout
Give your money to Jesus, they say,
He will cure all diseases today

If you fight hard for children and wife-
Try to get something good in this life-
You're a sinner and bad man, they tell,
When you die you will sure go to hell.

Workingmen of all countries, unite
Side by side we for freedom will fight
When the world and its wealth we have gained
To the grafters we'll sing this refrain

You will eat, bye and bye,
When you've learned how to cook and how to fry;
Chop some wood, 'twill do you good
Then you'll eat in the sweet bye and bye

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 10:16 AM

thanks for that, Eric

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night,
alive as you and me.
Says I "But Joe, you're ten years dead"
"I never died" said he,
"I never died" said he.

"The Copper Bosses killed you Joe,
they shot you Joe" says I.
"Takes more than guns to kill a man"
Says Joe "I didn't die"
Says Joe "I didn't die"

Joan Baez

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 10:32 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I wouldn't know Geezer, 'cause we're all trapped in a monpolist society just trying to make ends meet.

Flights leave for Venezuela and China every day. Cuba or North Korea might be a bit harder, but if folks can get out you should be able to get in. Vote with your feet for the way of life you crave. If folk from all over the world can come to the US to get in on a little bit of that capitalism, you should be able to head somewhere else where you can receive according to your need and provide according to your ability.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 10:38 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
This is Geezer's brave new world ... from the recent past ...

CHORUS:
You load sixteen tons and what do you get?
Another day older and deeper in debt.
Saint Peter, don't you call me 'cause I can't go,
l owe my soul to the company store.

And your's is "The Gulag Archipelago", no doubt. Guess no one made it alive out of the salt mines to write a theme song.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 11:14 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

So, speaking of making it out alive....

Ballad of the Triangle Fire
By Ruth Rubin

In the heart of New York City, near Washington Square
In nineteen eleven, March winds were cold and bare.
A fire broke out in a building ten stories high,
And a hundred and forty-six young girls in those flames did die.

On the top floor of that building, ten stories in the air
These young girls were working in an old sweatshop there;
They were sewing shirtwaists for a very low wage.
So tired and pale and worn-out! They were at a tender age.

The sweatshop was a stuffy room with but a single door;
The windows they were gray with dust from off that dirty floor;
There were no comforts, no fresh air, no light to sew thereby,
And the girls, they toiled from early morn till darkness filled the sky.

Then on that fateful day — dear God, most terrible of days!
When that fire broke out, it grew into a mighty blaze.
In that firetrap way up there with but a single door,
So many innocent working girls burned, to live no more!

A hundred thousand mourners, they followed those sad biers.
The streets were filled with people weeping bitter tears.
Poets, writers everywhere described that awful pyre,
When those young girls were trapped to die in the Triangle Fire.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 11:39 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So, speaking of making it out alive....

Ballad of the Triangle Fire
By Ruth Rubin

Try googling this.

China "factory fire"

139,000 hits. Some are duplicates, for sure, but you'll note plenty.

Or the first hit on this.

China "mine deaths"

"Two coal mine managers have each been sentenced to seven years in prison for their roles in an accident last August that left 172 miners dead, state media said Thursday."
http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/04/17/1435753-china-jails-mine-mana
gers-7-years-for-accident-killing-172

Not 100 years ago, either.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 12:28 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Is China communist? I thought all the capitalists were crowing about their stunning succcess in turning China towards our economic model.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 12:53 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Is China communist?

They claim to be. Would they lie?

But Venezuela is just beginning their experiment with communism. Why don't you move on down there and show them how to do it right, since the US is unendurable to you? Can it be that your commitment to the worker's paradise ends where the lack of conveniences you take for granted here in monopoly-land begins?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 1:21 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Vote with your feet for the way of life you crave."

I'll be singing

E Ihowā Atua,
O ngā iwi mātou rā
Āta whakarangona;
Me aroha noa
Kia hua ko te pai;
Kia tau tō atawhai;
Manaakitia mai
Aotearoa

Ōna mano tāngata
Kiri whero, kiri mā,
Iwi Māori, Pākehā,
Rūpeke katoa,
Nei ka tono ko ngā hē
Māu e whakaahu kē,
Kia ora mārire
Aotearoa

as soon as the rest of the family can move.

***************************************************************
And notice that Geezer is trying to frame the issue such that
if your not 110% for unrestricted capitalism you must be a communist.

Well, that's Geezer for 'ya.

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 2:31 PM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
And notice that Geezer is trying to frame the issue such that if your not 110% for unrestricted capitalism you must be a communist.

Yeah, I noticed that. He turns into a disinformationalist with breathtaking speed. Well, at least he's good at something!

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 3:43 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Kinda hard to claim that MayDay isn't a full blown Socialist hoilday, right ? Hard to paint it as anything but what it really is, if ya ask me.

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
And notice that Geezer is trying to frame the issue such that if your not 110% for unrestricted capitalism you must be a communist.
Yeah, I noticed that. He turns into a disinformationalist with breathtaking speed. Well, at least he's good at something!

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 3:49 PM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

May Day occurs on May 1 and refers to any of several public holidays. In many countries, May Day is synonymous with International Workers' Day, or Labour Day, which celebrates the social and economic achievements of the labor movement. As a day of celebration the holiday has ancient origins, and it can relate to many customs that have survived into modern times. Many of these customs are due to May Day being a cross-quarter day, meaning that it falls approximately halfway between an equinox and a solstice.

The earliest May Day celebrations appeared in pre-Christian Europe, as in the Celtic celebration of Beltane, and the Walpurgis Night of the Germanic countries. Many pre-Christian indigenous celebrations were eventually banned or Christianized during the process of Christianization in Europe. As a result, a more secular version of the holiday continued to be observed in the schools and churches of Europe well into the 20th century. In this form, May Day may be best known for its tradition of dancing the Maypole and crowning of the Queen of the May. Today various Neopagan groups celebrate reconstructed (to varying degrees) versions of these customs on 1 May.

The day was a traditional summer holiday in many pre-Christian European pagan cultures. While February 1 was the first day of Spring, May 1 was the first day of summer; hence, the summer solstice on June 25 (now June 21) was Midsummer. In the Roman Catholic tradition, May is observed as Mary's month, and in these circles May Day is usually a celebration of the Blessed Virgin Mary. In this connection, in works of art, school skits, and so forth, Mary's head will often be adorned with flowers. Fading in popularity since the late 20th century is the giving of "May baskets," small baskets of sweets and/or flowers, usually left anonymously on neighbors' doorsteps.

May Day can refer to various labour celebrations conducted on May 1 that commemorate the fight for the eight hour day. May Day in this regard is called International Workers' Day, or Labour Day. The choice of May 1st was a commemoration by the Second International for the people involved in the 1886 Haymarket affair. The Haymarket incident occured during the course of a three-day general strike in Chicago, Illinois that involved common laborers, artisans, merchants, and immigrants. Following an incident in which police opened fire on strikers at the McCormick Harvesting Machine Co. plant, a rally was called by strikers for the following day at Haymarket Square. Towards the end of this event, an unknown assailant threw a bomb into a crowd of police. The bomb and resulting police riot left at least a dozen people dead, including seven policemen. A sensational show trial lead to the eventual public hanging of four anarchists. The Haymarket incident was a source of outrage from people around the globe. In the following years, memory of the "Haymarket martyrs" was remembered with various May Day job actions and demonstrations.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 3:50 PM

Bah, just remove two things and the whole problem would sort itself in short order.

#1 - Gov't support and intervention on behalf of the corpies.

This has been an issue since the late 1800's
Labor can fight a corp, Labor cannot fight a corp backed up by the combined forces of the State.

This more than anything else is what has caused the situation at hand, go on, find a single historical example where the troops came in on the side of labor, go ahead and try.

Because of this, Labor has no chance when things get ugly short of a full out revolution, or what some folk might call terrorism, and historically neither one is effective in advancing Labors position overall.

#2 - Corporate Personhood.

That being the root of just too many ills to go into in a single post.

Two additional items worthy of note...

Hope no one expected to ship any freight off the west coast today, wasn't allowed to mention that beforehand, although why they asked me not to when they made the intent so public I couldn't tell you...

And those truckers on the raggedy edge ARE getting some organisation up, via the MTWIU 530, but this is being mostly organised over the radio at this time, and we have other matters to attend to at the moment and cannot assist them on the paperwork end of things.

On a more positive note, our ceremonial sacking went quite well, in fact we got the stand-in mayor/manager to lift a few glasses with us (after offering the services of our designated driver) in solidarity with our cause of reducing needless beauracracy and waste, something which has begun to frustrate the hell out of him after taking the job when we pitched the last one and his secretary for corruption, embezzlement and misconduct.

It went off quite peaceably and a good time was had by all, all of which got home safely thanks to our designated sober "straight man" and driver, which'd be me.

No sense ruining the fun with some jerk trying to drive while blitzed, you know ?

-F

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 4:38 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Vote with your feet for the way of life you crave."

I'll be singing

E Ihowā Atua,
O ngā iwi mātou rā.

New Zealand's nice, good hunting and fishing there, but hardly a communist or socialist state.

Quote:
And notice that Geezer is trying to frame the issue such that if your not 110% for unrestricted capitalism you must be a communist.

I'd be interested in seeing a quote from any of my posts in this thread which supports this supposition.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 4:47 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Yeah, I noticed that. He turns into a disinformationalist with breathtaking speed. Well, at least he's good at something!

Sorry, Siggy, but you're what they used to call a "Parlor Pink". You talk about your love for communism/socialism, but you will not give up the comforts provided by a capitalist country and move to a place governed by the philosophy you espouse. Your arguments fail because you are not willing to live with their consequences.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 5:34 PM

Actually Geeze strikes me as an Anarcho-Capitalist, a philosophy I may not fully agree with, but it does have it's advantages over the status quo.

I could be wrong, but that's for Geeze to answer.

Wiki has a right fascinating and intricately detailed article on the subject, but it's a bit of a thick read, mind.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism

Not so sure it's workable, as long as the balance of power between Labor and Companies is relatively equal it might, but woe betide if either one gains a significant edge.

I certainly invite Geeze to comment here, as I'd be interested in his stance and opinion.

-F

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Friday, May 2, 2008 2:39 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Actually Geeze strikes me as an Anarcho-Capitalist, a philosophy I may not fully agree with, but it does have it's advantages over the status quo.

I like a good bit of anarcho-capitalist thought, particularly the concepts of self-ownership and non-aggression. Like yourself, I expect that a major paradigm shift would have to occur before any anarcho-whatever system could work.

In the meantime, and leaving the anarcho out of the equation, I'd prefer to live in a capitalist democracy rather than a communist society. I've never been a capitalist myself (except for a disasterous fling at the stock market) or even an entrepreneur, but it appears to me to provide more for more people than other forms of economic theory.

Problems do occur because we're dealing with imperfect people (imperfect in wanting to have power over others). This problem demonstrably occurs in both capitalist democracies and communist states. I think that the capitalist democracies have shown themselves better able to limit this tendency, although not get rid of it.

All in all, I'm probably happier here in the US than I would be anywhere else. I can deal with the system when I must and avoid it when I can. I got pretty much everything I need or want. I can help those who have less. There are certainly things I'd like to change, but I don't give up on the whole enchilada because it got one bit of menudo on it.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, May 2, 2008 3:21 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Problems do occur because we're dealing with imperfect people (imperfect in wanting to have power over others). This problem demonstrably occurs in both capitalist democracies and communist states. I think that the capitalist democracies have shown themselves better able to limit this tendency, although not get rid of it.

Geezer, you're showing a very typical ignorance of terms. Capitalism is an economic system (means of production owned by individuals). Communism is an economic system. Socialism is an economic system.

Dictatorship is a system of government. Democracy is a system of government.

It's possible to pick one from column A and one from column B

Democratic socialism
Democratic communism (economic democracy)
Dictatorial capitalism (fascism)
Democratic capitalsim
Dictatorial socialism
Dictatorial communism

Some combinations are more familiar to us that others through history but ALL are possible, plus many intermediate forms. What you routinely do is conflate communism with dictatorship. Try to keep in mind that the two are separate items.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 3:29 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
You talk about your love for communism/socialism, but you will not give up the comforts provided by a capitalist country and move to a place governed by the philosophy you espouse.

I've been through my economic philosophy with you several times, in detail. What I propose is not communism or socialism. AFA "giving up comforts"- Because of family health issues we would be FAR more comfortable in Sweden, Iceland, Denmark, or any number of socialist countries with universal health care and a significantly lower crime rate. Right now, all of our decisions- how long we keep working (and believe me, we're old and tired), where we invest our money, who we choose as trustees for the special needs trust- is driven by the fact that our daughter would never survive on her own, financially, heath-care wise, and emotionally in this fucked up hellhole that we call a "society".

We plan for the worst, and hope for the best, and we do what we can to make THIS place a better place. Staying here is a sacrifice, you moron!

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 4:55 AM

Well a big part of the problem with our form of Capitalism is the halfass and fumbling interventions of the State, from counterproductive regulations that make no sense, all the way to the other end and subsidized monopolies that aren't worth a damn, like Amtrak.

You'd think that with the fuel crunch it'd be worth our time to have an effective, efficient rail transportation service - what we got is an archaic relic of a bygone era lacking in both efficiency and effectiveness, brought to you in part by the Gov.

I ain't sure hands-off is the answer, but I am damn sure hands-on aint it neither.

-F

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Friday, May 2, 2008 6:25 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Geezer

Quote:
Rue:
And notice that Geezer is trying to frame the issue such that if your not 110% for unrestricted capitalism you must be a communist."

Geezer:
I'd be interested in seeing a quote from any of my posts in this thread which supports this supposition.

As requested:

Quote:

Geezer: (Geezers' song fromm the past '16 tons') And your's is "The Gulag Archipelago", no doubt. Guess no one made it alive out of the salt mines to write a theme song.

Geezer:
Flights leave for Venezuela and China every day. Cuba or North Korea might be a bit harder, but if folks can get out you should be able to get in. Vote with your feet for the way of life you crave. If folk from all over the world can come to the US to get in on a little bit of that capitalism, you should be able to head somewhere else where you can receive according to your need and provide according to your ability.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, May 2, 2008 6:28 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Frem

Don't be fooled by Geezer's claim of anarchism. He fully supports government intervention across the globe in support of US business and US crony capitalism. Muscling it across the globe as part of the US government was his frigging job.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, May 2, 2008 6:31 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
What you routinely do is conflate communism with dictatorship. Try to keep in mind that the two are separate items.

I conflate communism with dictatorship because in recent history pretty much all nations with a communist economy have ended up dictatorships. Strangely enough, most modern countries with a capitalist economy seem to have a democratic form of government. I suppose it is possible to have democratic communism or dictatorial capitalism, but actual examples are few and far between. So I'm not ignorant of the possibilities, just basing my positions on actual conditions rather than theories.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, May 2, 2008 6:41 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Because of family health issues we would be FAR more comfortable in Sweden, Iceland, Denmark, or any number of socialist countries with universal health care and a significantly lower crime rate... Staying here is a sacrifice

In all seriousness, if you think that moving to another country would be better for your daughter's situation, then why not? People move from country to country all the time for far less compelling reasons.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, May 2, 2008 6:42 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Frem

Don't be fooled by Geezer's claim of anarchism. He fully supports government intervention across the globe in support of US business and US crony capitalism. Muscling it across the globe as part of the US government was his frigging job.

I see Rue's got the mindreading cap on again.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Friday, May 2, 2008 7:11 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

No, it's just that Rue can read what you've written. And so can I. Please don't degrade yourself by making claims that can be so easily checked since you've left a written record. It's embarrassing for everybody.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 7:24 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
In all seriousness, if you think that moving to another country would be better for your daughter's situation, then why not? People move from country to country all the time for far less compelling reasons.

In all seriousness? When we were younger and in the prime of our careeers we got hit by unrelenting health issues: first our daughter's birth injury, then his mom (who lived with us) had breast cancer, heart failure, a stroke, and then passed agonizingly from metastacized cancer; then about the time our daughter's neurological state worsened to continous seizures hubby was dx with prostate cancer and uncontrollable Meniere's. In that 16-year seige the complications of moving to a new country, finding new jobs, and hooking in to another health care system- no matter how superior- were complications that I simply didn't have the mental and emotional resources to tackle while MIL, hubby, and daughter were in crisis.

Now that things have stabilized out it seems unfair, somehow, to take advantage of a system that we didn't contribute to. And we'd still like to see THIS place move in a better direction, because if everyone who wants to see more compassion went someplace else then only rat-bastards would remain. Despite what you think, it IS possible to love your country and at the same time wish to see it do better.

That being said, we have looked at moving to another country and the option is still on the table.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 8:35 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
...it IS possible to love your country and at the same time wish to see it do better.

Blasphemer! Witch! How dare you think that this country could possibly be better! How very communistic of you!

Kidding, of course.

Geez, ya know why folk like us don't move? Partly because we like it here (for the most part, but want it to be better), and partly just to piss off people like you.

So let me ask YOU - if you don't like the direction this country is headed (toward things like universal health care, etc.), then why don't YOU move?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Saturday, May 3, 2008 5:25 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
When we were younger and in the prime of our careeers we got hit by unrelenting health issues:

Truly a raw deal. I'm sorry you've had so much trouble.

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Now that things have stabilized out it seems unfair, somehow, to take advantage of a system that we didn't contribute to.

If you were just going somewhere to freeload off the system, I might agree, but I don't doubt that you'll be a contributing member of society where ever you are.

Quote:
And we'd still like to see THIS place move in a better direction, because if everyone who wants to see more compassion went someplace else then only rat-bastards would remain. Despite what you think, it IS possible to love your country and at the same time wish to see it do better.

So would I. We just have different ideas about how to get there and whether progress is being made or not. Nor do I think I'm a rat-bastard who lacks compassion. This rat-bastard's got plenty of compassion.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, May 3, 2008 5:34 AM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
So let me ask YOU - if you don't like the direction this country is headed (toward things like universal health care, etc.), then why don't YOU move?

Well, first off, I tend to take the long view, and to me the country is generally trending in the right direction. Second, most of the policies I don't agree with don't affect me personally, so I can deal with being morally outraged without having to change my life. Third, even with some policies in place which I don't like and which do affect me, there's still no place that better represents my chosen philosophy and lifestyle.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, May 3, 2008 6:15 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Geezer- Thank you for the kind words.

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Let's party like it's 1929.

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Saturday, May 3, 2008 2:24 PM

Keep the Shiny side up

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer- Thank you for the kind words.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

Siggy, I enjoy arguing with you, but to me there's nothing personal in it. More like mental Ju Jitsu. I wish nothing but the best for you, or anyone else here.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Saturday, May 3, 2008 6:13 PM