Waterboarding- the real deal by SignyM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Thanks for the bump. I would have done it myself.

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 3:57 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Thanks for the bump. I would have done it myself.

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"Global warming - it's not a fact, it just isn't."

So you favor the terrorists' sawing of heads or burning of civilians in buildings more than waterboarding ?

Color me not shocked - at all.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 4:27 PM

SERGEANTX

Auraptor, you're so fucking stupid.

I'm in favor of killing terrorists.

But until you've proven someone actually is a terrorist, torturing them makes you just as evil as the terrorists you are supposedly against.

See, there's this thing, this concept, of "innocent until proven guilty"... oh.. nevermind. You're nothing but a chicken-shit traitor, giving up your country's most cherished values at the first hint of danger.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 4:46 PM

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Auraptor, you're so fucking stupid.

I'm in favor of killing terrorists.

But until you've proven someone actually is a terrorist, torturing them makes you just as evil as the terrorists you are supposedly against.

See, there's this thing, this concept, of "innocent until proven guilty"... oh.. nevermind. You're nothing but a chicken-shit traitor, giving up your country's most cherished values at the first hint of danger.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

Hear! Hear!

Sarge has it exactly right. See, once upon a time, there was this quaint little concept that we were ABOVE doing the kinds of things that terrorists would do, and that would put us above them. Saying that I'm against waterboarding and other forms of torture IS NOT THE SAME AS SAYING I'M FOR TERRORISM!!!

What part of that can't you get through your thick fucking skull, 'Rap?

Here's another thing: This nation is a nation of laws. Laws tend to be modeled on precedent. If you allow this, you are, in essence, saying to future prosecutors that it's okay to waterboard, say, a suspect in a bank robbery. Or a suspected drunk driver. Hey, if it was legal for THIS guy, then why not this OTHER guy?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 5:37 PM

FREMDFIRMA

Careful with that innocent till proven guilty stuff, Sarge...

Doesn't seem to be much welcome around here no more, given how much crap's been thrown in my direction for espousing it as of late.

-F

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 5:48 PM

I wonder when Amnesty International will put up an add showing us what real torture is like. My guess is never, because real torture is so disturbing and damaging that you could never get someone to participate in. The very idea they could make a “demonstration” video that airs on prime time sort undermine the whole idea of it being anything like the kind of activity that people usually associate with torture.

Waterboarding works because it makes the victim feel as if he is drowning, though he actually is not. One of Saddam’s favorites was throwing tied up and blind folded victims off 2 or 3 story buildings - I understand it makes the victim feel as if they are falling. Of course, on contact with the ground, they break several bones and realize they actually were falling. That’s real torture. It’s real. It’s not a staged stunt. It’s real. Waterboarding might be called torture, but it’s fake.

Now one can be against waterboarding, but one should be honest enough to put it in perspective.

Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Thursday, May 1, 2008 6:30 PM

SERGEANTX

Quote:
Doesn't seem to be much welcome around here no more, given how much crap's been thrown in my direction for espousing it as of late.

Hmmm... I've been rather busy. Did I miss something?

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, May 2, 2008 1:31 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

You and sarge think we're waterboarding cub scouts or something, when I give our intel guys far more credit than to randomly w.b. just anyone they have for the heck of it. They know more than anyone where it would prove effective, and have shown exactly that in its use.

You're the fucking stupid, thick skulled ass for faces.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, May 2, 2008 1:58 AM

JONGSSTRAW

The US has only waterboarded 3 "people", and they were all high-ranking Al Qaida, including Sheik Kalid Mohammed...the mastermind of operations for 911. Geoerge Tenet, former CIA Director has publicly stated numerous times that waterboarding in these 3 cases definitely worked well, and we obtained valuable and usefull intelligence that ultimately saved innocents' lives. Anyone that has one ounce of sympathy for waterboarded Al Qaida is a naive, delusional fool. Shit...what'd Marcellus say in Pulp Fiction...."I'm gonna call me some pipe-hittin' ni**as to come over with a blowtorch and a pair of pliers..." I'll second that! Harsh interrogations with the goal of saving lives is vital and necessary sometimes.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 3:50 AM

SERGEANTX

I don't know who we're waterboarding. Neither do you. That's at the heart of the issue. The question of how much we choose to trust those leading these efforts is a tricky one. It's one that political thinkers have wrestled with since the first 'leader' asked for out trust. In our country (USA) we decided to resolve the question with a set of strict rules and procedures designed to demand transparency and accountability from our leaders. These rules, written down in the Constitution, have served us well and allowed us to lead the way toward freer society and more just government.

But, the Constitution is, after all, "just a piece of paper". It's only as strong as our will to adhere to the values and principles it encodes. If, at the first sign of danger, we piss ourselves and cave in to panic ( which is, in fact, the whole point of terrorism ) and allow our fear to guide us, rather than our principles, the Constitution really doesn't matter much.

So buck up guys, and grow a pair. The terrorists will likely strike again, and I'd rather not indulge them by dismantling our nation on their cue.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Friday, May 2, 2008 4:02 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
So buck up guys, and grow a pair. The terrorists will likely strike again, and I'd rather not indulge them by dismantling our nation on their cue.

I think it's you who needs to grow not only a pair, but just grow up. We're dealing potentially with dirty bombs, nukes, germ weapons, and outright poison. I am not fucking suicidal like some of you strict & rigid Constitution freaks. Shove your high platitudes up all your asses for all I care. You cannot have a country with high morality if you don't have a country anymore, or you have a shell of a country after a devastating event that kills millions. The USA has historically, under leaders of all political parties, taken extraordinary measures during times of national security threats...and since when does the US Constitution apply to foreign nationals sworn to kill all of us?

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Friday, May 2, 2008 4:18 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
[
I think it's you who needs to grow not only a pair, but just grow up.

So Jong, how'd you like you own son to go into the army & be trained how to waterboard a person? How'd you like to know your son can operate nearly as low as a real terrorist? He'd have some funny stories for the dinner table come the holidays, eh? "Yeah, they taught us that when you see blood being coughed up, you have to stop for a few hours- pass the mashed potatoes, please."

You KILL the bad guys if you have to, you don't swim in the same sewer of depravity that they do.

Chrisisall

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Friday, May 2, 2008 4:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:

Waterboarding works because it makes the victim feel as if he is drowning, though he actually is not.

NO, WATERBOARDING DOESN'T "WORK", it only succeeds in making monsters of the participants, getting the suspect to say whatever he thinks will stop it (be it true or not), and dragging this country's morality lower and lower.
Bush is a traitor to the American Way.
EDIT: And I'm not saying that Bush is LIKE a traitor- He IS ONE...an actual traitor. He actively undermines our Constitution. He should be facing jurors, not press peeps.

Chrisisall

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Friday, May 2, 2008 4:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The US has only waterboarded 3 "people"

And that's a laugh. Official stats, right? Like they're really gonna tell us everything.
Growing up sounds like a good idea, suddenly.

Zerotolleranceisall

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Friday, May 2, 2008 4:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
These rules, written down in the Constitution, have served us well and allowed us to lead the way toward freer society and more just government.

The terrorists will likely strike again, and I'd rather not indulge them by dismantling our nation on their cue.

Thank you.

Chrisisall

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Friday, May 2, 2008 4:43 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
The US has only waterboarded 3 "people"
And that's a laugh. Official stats, right? Like they're really gonna tell us everything.
Growing up sounds like a good idea, suddenly.

Zerotolleranceisall

Chris...since you don't trust anything or anyone except your own obnoxious smugness, why don't you simply go fuck yourself?...Dong ma?

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Friday, May 2, 2008 4:49 AM

FREMDFIRMA

I think it's funny to watch little pissants moan in terror about some puffed up boogeyman less scary, and less LIKELY, than drowning in your own bathtub...

Seriously, I concur, grow a fucking set you bunch of pansies - any asshole tries to do for me better get it right the first time, cause his ass is mine like a prison bitch if he don't, and THAT, folks, is the American way.

Not hiding under the bed puling and whining like some half infant afraid of the dark.

Grow the fuck up.

-F

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Friday, May 2, 2008 4:51 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

FINN

Quote:
I wonder when Amnesty International will put up an add showing us what real torture is like.

This is singularly stupid, even from you. Do you know anything about Amnesty International? Apparently not, but that doesn't prevent you from shooting your mouth off like a fool.

Well, for the truly ignorant (that's you, Finn) it's not as if AI is "against" waterboarding but "for" every other form of torture around the world. Look it up.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 4:54 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:

Chris...since you don't trust anything or anyone except your own obnoxious smugness

I'll cop to obnoxious, but not smugness, Bush impounded it all for himself, there just isn't any more for the rest of us to use.

Quote:
why don't you simply go fuck yourself?...Dong ma?

Because where my penis is situated, it doesn't allow for...well, you know...

My trust must be earned- I don't give it away. Bush has earned my resentment is all.

BottomlineChrisisall

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Friday, May 2, 2008 5:00 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
any asshole tries to do for me better get it right the first time, cause his ass is mine like a prison bitch if he don't, and THAT, folks, is the American way.

Spoken just like Joe Hallenbeck.

LBfanisall

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Friday, May 2, 2008 5:26 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Finn, Finn, Finn ...

"I wonder when Amnesty International will put up an add showing us what real torture is like."
I realize you know everything about torture, but you could stand to learn about it from the experts - the people who endured it at the hands of a brutal dictator. A Pol Pot survivor says this about waterboarding:

Half a world away, the divisive debate over whether waterboarding constitutes torture comes into sharp relief at the infamous S-21, Tuol Sleng Prison in Phnom Penh, Cambodia.

This is where the genocidal regime of Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge imprisoned and brutalized its enemies from 1975 to 1979. I visited the once secret S-21, now a museum, with Van Nath, a former inmate. He remembers being brought here blindfolded and terrified: "I thought that was the end of my life," he told me. "In my room people kept dying, one or two every day."

Van Nath was kept in a room packed with 50 other inmates, shackled together and forced to lie down. "We could not sit. If we wanted to sit, we had to ask permission first. No talking, whispering or making noise," he told me.

Van Nath described how male prisoners were whipped raw, their fingernails were yanked out, they were hogtied to wooden bars. Prison guards mutilated women's genitals, ripped off their nipples with pliers. And worst of all, babies were ripped from their mothers' arms and slaughtered.

Take water torture, for instance. Van Nath remembers it as if it were yesterday. I gasped as I entered a room filled with his vivid depictions.

One of his paintings shows a prisoner blindfolded and hoisted onto a makeshift scaffold by two guards. He is then lowered head first into a massive barrel of water. Another shows a prisoner with cloth over his face, writhing as an interrogator pours water over his head.

Van Nath still remembers the accompanying screams: "It sounded like when we are really in pain, choking in water," he told me. "The sound was screaming, from the throat. I suppose they could not bear the torture. Whenever we heard the noises we were really shocked and scared. We thought one day they will do the same thing to us."

As he talked and showed me around, my mind raced to the debate in the United States over this same tactic used on its prisoners nearly 40 years later. I asked Van Nath whether he had heard this was once used on America's terrorist suspects. He nodded his head. "It's not right," he said.

But I pressed him: Is it torture? "Yes," he said quietly, "it is severe torture."

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So Finn, any more words of wisdom on what constitutes real torture ?

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Friday, May 2, 2008 5:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:

So Finn, any more words of wisdom on what constitutes real torture ?

I think people that witnessed the Towers coming down & the heads of peeps being sawed off have been 'TV-anethetized' and no longer consider anything that doesn't actually kill or remove body parts to be torture.

I mean, unless they themselves experience it, I guess.

Chrisisall

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Friday, May 2, 2008 7:09 AM

STORYMARK

The Japanese waterboard, and it's a war crime.

We waterboard, and it's totally reasonable.

You fuckin' rightie wingnuts and your moral relativism make me sick.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, May 2, 2008 7:46 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:

We waterboard, and it's totally reasonable.

Hey- remember that Firefly ep where Mal & Wash were torturing that guy...oh wait...they weren't torturing, they were BEING tortured...that's right, torturin' ain't the job of Big Damn Heroes, it's a job for the likes of Niska & his crew...kinda make ya wonder what some folks even watched the show for, seein' as peeps that don't agree with employing it as part of their methods are un-grown up, have no cajones, and don't trust the oh-so-trustworthy government...Mal & crew must seem pretty much like a group of pansies to them folk...who'd watch a show about wussies tryin' to be noble as a grape when there's bad guys to be waterboarded?

Huh?Chrisisall

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Friday, May 2, 2008 8:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
The Japanese waterboard, and it's a war crime.

We waterboard, and it's totally reasonable.

You fuckin' rightie wingnuts and your moral relativism make me sick.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

THANK YOU!!

Waterboarding isn't "like" drowning; it's, like, DROWNING. They are actively drowning you when you're waterboarded. That they don't actually KILL you (most of the time, at least) doesn't mean you aren't actually drowning when they're doing it to you.

And, unlike the people who volunteer to be waterboarded to show how harmless it is, the people we've actually tortured DID NOT KNOW WHETHER OR NOT WE WERE EVER GOING TO STOP DROWNING THEM.

I'm against torture when THEY do it, and I'm against torture when WE do it. Color me reactionary, but I'd rather not become a terrorist in order to battle terrorists. That's something that fuckheads like AwwwCrapper and Finn will just never get their heads around.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, May 2, 2008 8:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Color me reactionary

I'd colour you consistent.

Chrisisall

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Friday, May 2, 2008 9:26 AM

FREMDFIRMA

Works, does it ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunking

That's all waterboarding is, when you get right down to it, and the stones throw from the puritan scum who did this, and the christian scum who waterboard is not so great, which is why I view their religion and diety as monstrous and evil.

When you strip the bullshit off, the difference between christian zealots and muslim zealots is essentially nil - and were it not for the wisdom of a bunch of chary diests who knew what they were capable of and created a secular government, breaking the unholy alliance of church and state, we would likely be in no better shape.

Of course, there WAS a secular government in the middle east, run by a guy we propped up and enabled, but yanno, they had the misfortune to be sitting on a boatload of stuff we wanted, and got a little tired of being our bitch, and in our own blind pride, arrogance and zealotry, we walked right into a disaster of historically epic proportions - it's as if, instead of the trojan horse, we all went over to the trojan camp and got passed out drunk and woke up with second smiles.

Zealotry of any stripe leads to stupidity, be it religious, moral, or political.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

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Friday, May 2, 2008 9:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
FINN
Quote:
I wonder when Amnesty International will put up an add showing us what real torture is like.
This is singularly stupid, even from you. Do you know anything about Amnesty International? Apparently not, but that doesn't prevent you from shooting your mouth off like a fool.

Well, for the truly ignorant (that's you, Finn) it's not as if AI is "against" waterboarding but "for" every other form of torture around the world. Look it up.

God, you’re dumb.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 9:45 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

God, you're evil.

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Now that we've gotten that out of the way - anything at all to say about the actual topic ?

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Friday, May 2, 2008 9:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Finn, Finn, Finn ...

"I wonder when Amnesty International will put up an add showing us what real torture is like."
I realize you know everything about torture, but you could stand to learn about it from the experts - the people who endured it at the hands of a brutal dictator.

Once again fantasy and ideology displace perspective. Pol Pot, the guy responsible for the systematic murder and (real) torture of millions, is your excuse? This is the problem. You have no clue what you’re talking about because you have NO perspective at all. And even more, you don’t want one.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 9:49 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Care to post something that makes any kind of sense ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, May 2, 2008 9:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
God, you're evil.

And there we have it. It must be a very simplistic life you lead to ignore anything that might contribute to some degree of understanding beyond your ideology. It’s not enough to disagree with the use of waterboarding on the true merits of what waterboarding, you have to pretend it’s something its not and paint anyone who doesn’t except this one-sided view as stupid or evil. You don’t have any perspective and you don’t want any.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 9:51 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
That’s real torture. It’s real. It’s not a staged stunt. It’s real. Waterboarding might be called torture, but it’s fake.

When I was 15 I was swimming at the YMCA pool, and I used to take this big heavy rubber weight to the bottom or the pool and sit it in my lap so I could see how long I could hold my breath while remaining motionless. Once, on the high side of two minutes, I'd realized that I'd waited too long, and I had to bolt up 12 feet in an instant or take in some water. There were lifeguards, the worst that could happen would be one lungfull that they'd help me get rid of, I was really in no danger of losing my life, and as it turned out, I only got like a quarter-lungfull before I broke the surface. But I'll tell ya, that one moment of choking up water had me in a complete panic even though intellectually I knew all was well. Now the Idea of doing that over and over for hours...Finn, I mean this in the nicest way, but effue if you think that's not torture...

Chrisisall

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Friday, May 2, 2008 9:56 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Finn: "God, you’re dumb."

To which I say: "It must be a very simplistic life you lead to ignore anything that might contribute to some degree of understanding beyond your ideology." ... You have to pretend waterboarding is something it's not and paint anyone who doesn’t accept this one-sided view as stupid. You don’t have any perspective and you don’t want any.

***************************************************************

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Friday, May 2, 2008 10:01 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
When I was 15 I was swimming at the YMCA pool, and I used to take this big heavy rubber weight to the bottom or the pool and sit it in my lap so I could see how long I could hold my breath while remaining motionless. Once, on the high side of two minutes, I'd realized that I'd waited too long, and I had to bolt up 12 feet in an instant or take in some water. There were lifeguards, the worst that could happen would be one lungfull that they'd help me get rid of, I was really in no danger of losing my life, and as it turned out, I only got like a quarter-lungfull before I broke the surface. But I'll tell ya, that one moment of choking up water had me in a complete panic even though intellectually I knew all was well. Now the Idea of doing that over and over for hours...Finn, I mean this in the nicest way, but effue if you think that's not torture...

I once chocked on a biscuit. I’m pretty sure that I was inches from death and it was probably luck that the wad of saggy biscuit dislodged before I lost consciousness. That was worse then waterboarding, because I might have actually died. I think it’s torture, but it’s on the low end of the spectrum. It’s staged. It’s fake. And if you think it's not staged, then a big effue to you. So where does that get us?

You know, eight year olds have better conversation skills then some of you.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 10:03 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Finn: "God, you’re dumb."

To which I say: "You know, eight year olds have better conversation skills then some of you."

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, May 2, 2008 10:07 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

So, I take it you don't admit the perspective of a Pol Pot torture survivor who says waterboarding is real torture ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, May 2, 2008 10:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
So, I take it you don't admit the perspective of a Pol Pot torture survivor who says waterboarding is torture ?

You go educate yourself on who and what Pol Pot was, and then we’ll talk about perspective.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 10:11 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

We're not talking about Pol Pot, we're talking about torture.

But I get it - it's bad when other people do it, but good when the US does the exact same thing.

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I think we all understand your point.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 10:23 AM

KIRKULES

Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
I think it's funny to watch little pissants moan in terror about some puffed up boogeyman less scary, and less LIKELY, than drowning in your own bathtub...

Seriously, I concur, grow a fucking set you bunch of pansies - any asshole tries to do for me better get it right the first time, cause his ass is mine like a prison bitch if he don't, and THAT, folks, is the American way.

Not hiding under the bed puling and whining like some half infant afraid of the dark.

Grow the fuck up.

-F

You're the one being all egocentric here. The fact that others might be concerned about what happens to others and not themselves doesn't even occur to you. We all know very well that for most of us the chance of being killed by a terrorist is close to zero, but that doesn't mean we should sit back and watch them kill thousands because you're so worried George Bush is going to waterboard you. I'm not concerned in the slightest that I will be the victim of a terrorist, but I do worry about innocent people all over the world that do have a higher probability of being killed. Waterboarding doesn't reach the threshold of torture for me and I agree with Finn that if you saw real torture it sure wouldn't look like the Amnesty Int. video.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 10:34 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

In its humane zeal to protect the world from terrorist killers the US kills by the hundreds of thousands. But it's different b/c the US uses bombs and the terrorists use ...... uh, ............

Yeah, that makes sense.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Friday, May 2, 2008 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
We're not talking about Pol Pot, we're talking about torture.

But I get it - it's bad when other people do it, but good when the US does the exact same thing.

I don't know if you're intentionally being obtuse, or you really don't understand what Pol Pot was, but the reason people have such a problem with Pol Pot is not because of the use of waterboarding. In fact, if it weren't for people like you trying to compare the US to the Khmer Rouge most people wouldn't know or care that waterboarding was used. That’s like saying one is angry about a burglar breaking in because he didn’t wipe his feet first.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 10:44 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"In fact, if it weren't for people like you trying to compare the US to the Khmer Rouge most people wouldn't know or care that waterboarding was used."

That wasn't me - that was a Pol Pot Cambodian torture survivor who said waterboarding is severe torture. And who, of his own volition, and from his own experience, rendered it in his torture gallery - to memorialize what tortures were done.

***************************************************************
Maybe you're just having a hard time wrapping your head around that. Give it time.

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Friday, May 2, 2008 10:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I once chocked on a biscuit. I’m pretty sure that I was inches from death and it was probably luck that the wad of saggy biscuit dislodged before I lost consciousness. That was worse then waterboarding, because I might have actually died.

Ah ya big baby, I regularly choke near to unconsciousness from swallowin' stuff down the wrong pipe (I must have ADD), it just takes the proper ugchughhhf to dislodge something, and sometimes it takes a moment or two, that's NOTHING like having your lungs rudely introduced to H2O, not even close.

Quote:
And if you think it's not staged, then a big effue to you. So where does that get us?

Well, even on the effue scorecard

Quote:

You know, eight year olds have better conversation skills then some of you.

I smell a lot of rubber n' glue in the offing....

Chrisisallchokedup

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Friday, May 2, 2008 10:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I don't know if you're intentionally being obtuse, or you really don't understand what Pol Pot was

Pol Pot was...only tangential to the subject we were discussing which was the torture itself.
By the way.

Suddenly, Moderator Chrisisall

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Friday, May 2, 2008 11:04 AM

Quote:
You know, eight year olds have better conversation skills then some of you.

... and better writing skills "then" [sic] some of YOU, Finn. Do you really want to wade into that end of the pool? Before you start insinuating that you're intelligent and others who disagree are less so, you might want to run your dribble through a spell-check or seven.

I tend to respond a bit more favorably to being called dumb by someone who can actually spell it, or at least look it up!

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, May 2, 2008 11:07 AM

Quote:
...if it weren't for people like you trying to compare the US to the Khmer Rouge most people wouldn't know or care that waterboarding was used.

So can we start referring to the Bush Regime as the "Khmer Rove"? :)

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, May 2, 2008 11:12 AM