REAL WORLD EVENT DISCUSSIONS

KENNEDY HAS A BRAIN TUMOR

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Friday, June 13, 2008 19:36
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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 10:32 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Like George Soros ?

j/k Seriously, you lost me on this one. Care to elaborate ?
I mean, if party allegiance over allegiance to ones country is treasonous, then what about harming ones country, or at least putting the interests of one's rich friends, above that of the general populace?

George Bush inherited a Government with an annual surplus, instigated tax cuts, that largely helped the rich and his campaign promoters, and when the US economy faltered, and the Government went into deficit, he carried on with the same plan, unchanged save for packaging it as economic and job stimulus.

But my point is wider than that. Republican Politicians are forever saying Democrats are anti-American, and don't have their countries interests at heart. But as far as I can see your average Republican politician is every bit as self serving as any other, but they seem to be a lot quicker to call the kettle black, eh.


More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 11:56 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:

I mean, if party allegiance over allegiance to ones country is treasonous, then what about harming ones country, or at least putting the interests of one's rich friends, above that of the general populace?

George Bush inherited a Government with an annual surplus, instigated tax cuts, that largely helped the rich
.. rich and middle class, who had been paying too much ..

Quote:
and his campaign promoters, and when the US economy faltered, and the Government went into deficit, he carried on with the same plan, unchanged save for packaging it as economic and job stimulus.


The 2001 recession began LONG before any of Bush's economic polices took place. Bush's tax cuts stimulated the economy and did create positive growth for virtually his entire 2 terms as President.

Quote:
But my point is wider than that. Republican Politicians are forever saying Democrats are anti-American, and don't have their countries interests at heart. But as far as I can see your average Republican politician is every bit as self serving as any other, but they seem to be a lot quicker to call the kettle black, eh.



A screaming AlGore (D) , accusing Bush of " play(ing) on our fears! " when no facts what so ever suggest that in the least - Dick Durbin (D) equating our troops to NAZIS and the Khmer Rouge at Gitmo, before having even gone down to SEE for himself - Jack Murtha ( D ) calling a group of Marines cold blooded killers, before they had even been CHARGED of any crimes in Haditha,( I think most, if not all Marines, have been exonerated ), etc....

No, Republicans politicians aren't accusing their 'friends' on the opposite aisle of being anti-American, they don't have the backbone to do anything like that, but Democrats do so none the less by their very own actions.

The claim that the GOP went to war so their rich buddies could line their pockets is vastly over blown and has never been substantiated. If military action does break out, there's not a long list of companies from which to choose from, and Congress doesn't choose contracts depending which party is in power. Democrats are every bit as likely to 'benefit' from war as are Republicans, this isn't a case where the outcomes is determined by who is in power. Boeing, located in heavily Democratic state of Washington, benefits greatly from military contracts. It would be erroneous to assume that since Boeing is situated in a Democratic state that the Dems favor the military. Same goes for the GOP. This isn't a case where one can judge outcome with intent.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 2:13 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
The 2001 recession began LONG before any of Bush's economic polices took place. Bush's tax cuts stimulated the economy and did create positive growth for virtually his entire 2 terms as President.
Wow. He created a 2.5% average growth rate, which has not been seen since... hmmm, Clinton's was 3.6%... Daddy Bush's was 2.8%... Reagan's was 4.2%... huh, guess I'll have to go back farther in history to find someone as BAD as Bush (43)!

AND he only needed to bankrupt the nation, lean on a complicit Federal Reserve for low interest rates, and sink the USA dollar in order to achieve it! Wow. I'm impressed.

'Crapter, you really should stop playing with numbers. They're a danger to you!



---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:26 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

.. rich and middle class, who had been paying too much ..


Odd, if you cut taxes for the rich and the middle class, and the lower class don't pay taxes anyway, AND you increase spending... well, how the hell are you going to pay for it all?

In other words, if I make $50,000 a year, and I want a $500,000 Ferrari, can't I just pay it off over the next seven hundred years or so?

Wasn't this the party that used to claim to be "fiscally responsible"? How is spending so much money that your great-great-grandchildren are still going to be paying on the interest fiscally responsible?

It's not that I'm against lower taxes; I'm not. Frankly, I'd LOVE to have that 30% of my income back. What I'm against is this enormous growth in spending WHILE LOWERING TAXES, while pretending that it's money that we're never going to have to pay back. THAT is the problem I have with Bush's economic policies. They're not sound economics, and they're not sound policies. His daddy referred to it as "voodoo economics" when Reagan proposed it, and he was right.

Think about it. The Bush way of doing things is this: If we spend more, we'll MAKE more. So by that rationale, the only thing keeping me from being a millionaire is the fact that I haven't spent enough money, bought enough crap, or dug myself deep enough into debt. Prosperity is just a couple of billion dollars away! Is that what "the American Dream" is nowadays? Is that what you want it to be, what you want to teach your children?

Just curious...



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Wednesday, May 21, 2008 4:58 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
The 2001 recession began LONG before any of Bush's economic polices took place. Bush's tax cuts stimulated the economy and did create positive growth for virtually his entire 2 terms as President.
Wow. He created a 2.5% average growth rate, which has not been seen since... hmmm, Clinton's was 3.6%... Daddy Bush's was 2.8%... Reagan's was 4.2%... huh, guess I'll have to go back farther in history to find someone as BAD as Bush (43)!

AND he only needed to bankrupt the nation, lean on a complicit Federal Reserve for low interest rates, and sink the USA dollar in order to achieve it! Wow. I'm impressed.

raptor, you really should stop playing with numbers. They're a danger to you!



Not me whose playing w/ the numbers. I'm just dealin in the facts. Never said W didn't expand Gov't or raise the debt, now did I ? Nope. But the economy did grow after the recession that W inherited. Grew every quarter since his tax cuts went into effect.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 3:48 AM

VILAVON

I'm still flying in 2021. How about you?


Ahh, the obligatory gay bashing begins. Not concerned about political correctness when it doesn't serve your ends?

Vilavon AKA Claude

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 4:55 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
KWICKO - hmmmmm, looks like someone can dish it out, but gets really bent when it gets thrown back.


Really? Let's look at it in chronological order...

You made a "funny" about Cheney & Kennedy. I responded with my own quip about Cheney & "Slippery Bill" Clinton. You went utterly batshit ballistic, referring to me as a - and I quote - "Cock-sucking halfwit". Since you decided to take the low road, I made a conscious decision to meet you down there and responded in language I thought just maybe you could understand. So I'M the one who got really bent? Who blew up and went personal in their attack? You did. I simply responded in kind.

Hell, I'm not bent about anything. I'm having fun with you. You think you offended me with your talk about my daughter? That IS funny - especially considering that I don't even have kids! Those "daughters" (and it WAS plural, but you're too fucking stupid to even notice that. Reading comprehension problem, fucktard?) were hypothetical, like your hunting trip and joyride with Cheney and Kennedy. You were stating that IF YOU HAD TO CHOOSE, you'd rather one than the other. I said the same thing - If I had daughters, and I had to choose, I'd rather Clinton shot 'em in the face than Cheney. Last I checked, Cheney's buddy hadn't turned his traumatic experience into a paid speaking tour; Monica has.

But anyway, thanks for playing. See ya in the funny papers!


Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 5:21 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
But the economy did grow after the recession that W inherited. Grew every quarter since his tax cuts went into effect.
And the economy grew after the recession that Bill Clinton inherited. And when Bill Clinton left office, we had a surplus not a deficit. Your 'facts' are very narrowly selected. It's like looking at 10 pixels of a 2MB picture: what's the point?

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 6:17 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by Vilavon:
Ahh, the obligatory gay bashing begins. Not concerned about political correctness when it doesn't serve your ends?

Vilavon AKA Claude


Claude: My sincere apologies for any gay-bashing I was a part of. It was certainly not intended in that spirit; my aim is to bash not gays, but the hypocrites who ARE gay, but will vote at every turn against gay rights and their own interests. And it turns out they're generally a repressed, Republican bunch.

Again, sorry 'bout that. I've got no problem at all with gay folk. Anyone who can find someone to love and hold onto in this crazy damn world... more power to 'em.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 6:49 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
.. rich and middle class, who had been paying too much ..
Irrelevant. George Bush took on huge government expenditure, and cut Government revenue. If you're planing on cutting taxes, you cut back on spending, it doesn't take a two year old to run the math, the math that apparently the leader of the free world couldn't manage. The real depressing part is that if a Democrat wins this coming election, they will have to increase taxes. Lets get real. The US government is, I believe, currently the biggest debtor in the world, it's currently running a huge deficit pushing up that debt annually. And when this hypothetical Democrat puts up taxes, Republicans are going to say "see, tax and spend democrats!", when the only reason for putting up those taxes in the first place, is the fiscal irresponsibility of the preceding Republican.

You can't have your cake and eat it, at least not forever. You can't spend money you haven't got forever either, because eventually the credit runs out. George Bush has been spending big on credit, and made no provision for paying it all off. As a friend remarked, he's like that kid that stole his dad's credit card, and spent all that money. Only difference is he's going to leave the White House scot free and the American people are going to have to pick up the tab.
Quote:
The 2001 recession began LONG before any of Bush's economic polices took place. Bush's tax cuts stimulated the economy and did create positive growth for virtually his entire 2 terms as President.
It's all borrowed money AU. It's a bubble. The recession never ended. The Dollar has been on the rebound every day since 2003. Economies can still grow during a recession, they're just not growing as much, but either way the growth in this case is more like an illusion. It's like funding a lavish lifestyle with a minimum wage job and a credit card. It's all on credit, and one day that credit runs out and your in a worse position than you started off in. And you know what, America's credit is near used up. Sure, one way to look at it is too say "we were doing really well there for a time, I got a Ferrari!"

Another would be to say you brushed the critter under the rug hoping someone else would deal with it, and it's now coming back as a monster. Luckily for George it seems it's just about the right time for someone else to come along and deal with it...
Quote:
A screaming AlGore (D) , accusing Bush of " play(ing) on our fears! " when no facts what so ever suggest that in the least
No facts? Pulling one example out, did George Bush not raise the spectre of Weapons of Mass Destruction and their imminent use in order to legitimise the war in Iraq? I'm pretty sure he did. Even if there were WMDs in Iraq (I think we can put it to bed by now that there wasn't) he was most certainly playing on peoples fears. The whole War on Terror thing, whether you agree with the measures or not, it's lynch pin, for some quite unsavoury methods, is the fear of the terrorist. Absolutely there's evidence that George Bush has been playing on peoples fears.
Quote:
Dick Durbin (D) equating our troops to NAZIS and the Khmer Rouge at Gitmo, before having even gone down to SEE for himself - Jack Murtha ( D ) calling a group of Marines cold blooded killers, before they had even been CHARGED of any crimes in Haditha,( I think most, if not all Marines, have been exonerated ), etc....
We were talking about what Democrats have said about Republicans, this is rather out of place.
Quote:
No, Republicans politicians aren't accusing their 'friends' on the opposite aisle of being anti-American, they don't have the backbone to do anything like that, but Democrats do so none the less by their very own actions.
You've not shown that Democrats are anti-American, you've not shown that Republicans are All-American Hero's, you've not shown, even that which you set out too, Democrats calling Republicans anti-American. And even if what you posit is true, Republicans don't need too, they got the American media to do it for them. The majority of the US Media step toes around Republicans, while absolutely ripping into Democrats, and all the while we know this must be 'fair' because the media has this 'liberal bias'.

A bias that gets harder and harder to see, in light of the uneven treatment of various candidates in the current election run, for instance. Obama has some tenuous historic connection to Jeremiah Wright, who has had a small number of comments come up, which I really don't think are half as bad as they're made out to be, and Barack Obama, a Democrat, is torn apart by the slavering mass of media wolves for them. John McCain, a Republican on the other hand, has both Rod Parsley (his professed spiritual guide) and John Hagee.

They're both as bad if not worse than Jeremiah Wright, Parsley has a big hard-on for hating Muslims, wanting to eradicate their 'false' religion, but he's an equal opportunity bigot, comparing planned parenthood to the Nazis. Apparently he wants to turn adultery into a criminal crime as well.

John Hagee, another man John McCain seems proud to have the endorsement of (rather than distancing himself as Obama has done with Wright), is a real sweet guy. He's got the quasi-acceptable Muslim hatred, after all, all Muslims are evil spawns of Satan waiting to join the legions of the Anti-Christ, but he doesn't stop there. For instance, this Anti-Christ will be from Europe, because everyone knows all Europeans are godless, soulless monsters, and also Jewish. I'd have thought between the two the 'liberally biased' media could have come up with something to pick apart. But no. Not a peep. No the 'liberally biased' media leaves well alone the Republican candidate, and in a fit of what I can only assume is 'liberal bias', goes after Obama instead. The guy that apparently is the poster child of liberal America.

But back to the main point. The fact is Republicans, at least the Neo-Cons, have made it their virtual raison d'être to question the loyalty of anyone opposed to what they want to do. After all, you're either with them, or against them.
Quote:
The claim that the GOP went to war so their rich buddies could line their pockets is vastly over blown and has never been substantiated.
But yet, when it came to lucrative rebuilding contracts in Iraq, it was the friends of George Bush that just 'happened' to get all the dough.


More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 8:37 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Citizen: Are you an American citizen? If not, too bad - you're a better one than a lot of the ones we've got around here ('Crapter, Hero, Finn, Havoc...)

And don't you know that it's different when it's McCain's guy who's spewing the hatred? Just ask any Republican - "When YOUR guy's friend does it, it's because you hat America and love terrorists; when OUR guy's pastor does it, it's because he simply misspoke. Don't you understand? It's DIFFERENT!"

So Obama waiting so long to distance himself from Wright proves that Obama secretly agrees with Wright's views. On the other hand, McCain's actively seeking out Hagee's endorsement in no way shows any approval of his radical views.

Some of those views, which Hagee is still spewing to this day, and which McCain still hasn't done a thing to disavow:

- Hitler's rise to power in Europe was a good thing, because it allowed the creation of Israel so that the Book of Revelation could unfold as intended. (Texas Senator John Cornyn was on stage with him for this one, and likewise has said nothing to distance himself from this viewpoint)

- The Catholic Church is the "great whore of the world". That should come as a great comfort to the Hispanic voters, without whom McCain is dead in the water.

- Katrina happened because New Orleans deserved it, because there was a plan to hold a Gay Pride parade in the city.

But, y'know... it's DIFFFERENT when he says it...

It always is, right?


Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 12:05 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Do you even try to stay topical anymore? Or is every new thread just a new opportunity for you to attack certain Posters?

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 12:44 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Some of those views, which Hagee is still spewing to this day, and which McCain still hasn't done a thing to disavow:

- Hitler's rise to power in Europe was a good thing, because it allowed the creation of Israel so that the Book of Revelation could unfold as intended. (Texas Senator John Cornyn was on stage with him for this one, and likewise has said nothing to distance himself from this viewpoint)

- The Catholic Church is the "great whore of the world". That should come as a great comfort to the Hispanic voters, without whom McCain is dead in the water.

- Katrina happened because New Orleans deserved it, because there was a plan to hold a Gay Pride parade in the city.

But, y'know... it's DIFFFERENT when he says it...


And, no sooner than I wrote this, McCain disavowed Hagee and rejected his endorsement. Thank you for that, Senator.



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 3:05 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


20 + yrs is anything but a "tenuous" relationship, citizen. C'mon now, stop the spinning. You'll get dizzy in no time at that rate. And Wright's comments are worse than you think, but you don't even want to acknowledge that anyways.

The majority of the U.S. media is utterly beholden to the Left wing, and only FOX comes close to getting things right (accurate)

Hagee and Parsley ? Irrelevant, as you are fond of saying.

Bush never said Iraq was an imminent threat, but that we should act BEFORE it becomes one. I'm absolutely sure of this. I think it's undeniable there WERE WMD in Iraq, but they were spirited away to Syria before we got there. And even if not, Saddam planned on reconstituting his WMD program, once the U.N. was out of his hair, so it's clear, he wasn't going to play by the rules.

There's no evidence was playing on anyone's fears. He was acting in a prudent, responsible manner.

Actually, the Gore, Durbin, Murtha points were to show them, Democrats, being un-American. I proved that point rather conclusively, thank you.

Bush said you're either with us, AMERICANS, or you're with the terrorist, those who attacked us on 9/11. I still agree w/ that statement.

If you're referring to Halliburton, then Clinton is their buddy too. He used them , in no bid contracts, as often as Bush. It's a moot point to claim Bush started this war so Halliburton could reap some sort of mega windfall fortune. As is the case w/ the military contracts, the outcome does not automatically condemn those companies who are best capable to take on the jobs. Sorry, such conspiracy claims simply don't hold water.


It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 3:25 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Do you even try to stay topical anymore? Or is every new thread just a new opportunity for you to attack certain Posters?


'Rap, I think he's callin' you out...



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 3:29 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Do you even try to stay topical anymore? Or is every new thread just a new opportunity for you to attack certain Posters?


'Rap, I think he's callin' you out...



Mike


Nope. Not me. I've stayed on topic and avoided attacking anyone through this entire thread.

But thanks for thinkin' of me.... I suppose.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 5:19 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
The majority of the U.S. media is utterly beholden to the Left wing


Prove it.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 5:58 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
The majority of the U.S. media is utterly beholden to the Left wing


Prove it.

Mike


It's been done so many times, it's a futile gesture.

*edit* Oh, all right.

Dan Rather and his faked ( but accurate ) documents on Bush

Chris Mathews - Democrat

Tim Russert - Democrat

George Stephenopoulos - Democrat

Almost every major news paper - Liberal

CBS, NBC, MSNBC, ABC = Liberal.



It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, May 22, 2008 9:24 PM

RIGHTEOUS9


THE ultra liberal Stephonopolis that got his very debate questions straight from Hannity's mouth?

THE very New York Times that had one of the most influential collemns leading up to the war, written by Judith Miller?, and withheld information about illegal wire-taps for a whole year before breaking the story? Keeping it safe until after election time?

You can keep bothering to try to conflate "liberal" with "democrat", but sadly the two aren't synonymous Auraptor. Aside of the rampant scandals, the blatant hypocracy and the sheer outrageous style in which the GOP goes about ripping off the American people with a straight face, corporate democrats...the DLC, specifically those players most often lambasted by the right, from Pelosi to Reid to Clinton, just aren't that fucking different in terms of policy. Believe me, they do not vote like liberals.
..................

I'll give you this. The closest thing to having a liberal news media outlet on tv is MSNBC. It has definitely swung to the middle and maybe even left of it. That I admit freely. Of course that could just mean they've decided to start reporting honestly. As Colbert said, "truth has a well known liberal bias."

More likely though(because what big corporation cares about truth really), is that people weren't hearing this kind of voice anywhere else, and that those looking for soemthing they could relate to, or that made sense in the universe, gravitated to Olbermann. I remember his show 4 years ago. It didn't sound like it does now. He has been emboldened over time with ratings he got for the little hint of integrity that we felt he imbued into the tv news spectrum.

I guess MSNBC finally decided they had something there. Keep in mind though that MSNBC was the one to cancel Donahue when he had good ratings, but was talking about the lead up to the war and how it was a bad idea. Maybe parent company GE didn't like that so much. I wonder how well their own war profiteering went.

But I could name as many and more sources that are conservative. Lou Dobbs(hates Bush and Liberals)

Glenn Beck, Bill O'reilley, John Gibson, Sean Hannity, New York Post, Wall Street Journal, Tim russert(oh was he on your list?) Joe Scarborough, Pat Buchanon, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Laura Ingram, lets just say "nearly all talk radio and cable news outlets" how am I doing?

We could go around like this all day.

I still think it would make more sense for you to look at why you think a media outlet run by of all things GE, would choose to sway the public's opinion in a liberal direction.

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Friday, May 23, 2008 1:40 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Because George played grown up once by asking a legit question, you dismiss his work for Clinton's 1st campaign and his time in the Clinton White House? Really? Wow.

The NY Times which has participated in treasonous actions, releasing stories which the White House specifically asked it NOT to release ( the SWIFT program )

Olbermann isn't driven by any sense of duty, truth in reporting or obligation to " tell it like it is ", this clown is nothing more than a self absorbed prima dona,

Of your list of personalities,Glenn Beck, Bill O'reilley, , Sean Hannity, Tim russert(oh was he on your list?) Joe Scarborough, Pat Buchanon, Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Laura Ingram, NONE of them are news anchors. They're entertainers. As for news papers, it'd be easier for me to post the ones NOT Left wing slanted than to list all the ones which were. And spare me this straw man of who owns the news makes them 'Right-wing'. It simply isn't the case , where you have liberal editors, liberal reporters, and liberal anchors.

And yes, Tim Russert is on my list of Libs ,as he's definatly no conservative.

Those who I'd say are the most credible are Gibson and ( Chris ) Wallace.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, May 23, 2008 2:09 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


See? You haven't PROVEN anything - you've merely given opinions.

You consider Olbermann a self-absorbed primadonna, yet consider O'Reilly an "entertainer" - they run exactly the same kind of shows! One has a bit of a left-wing bent, and one a decidedly right-wing bent, but they report on the same stories and they both spin them.

I know you think Faux News is the only one that "gets it right", but they've been caught lying more than Dan Rather. The only people who don't know that are people who only get their news from Faux News.

As for "treasonous" actions by the NY Times, they were treasonous because the White House ASKED them not to report the story? So if they merely ASK now, and you don't comply, it's treason? But in your book, outting a covert operative during a time of war is NOT treasonous, right? In your world - and Dick Nixon's - it's not a crime if the President does it.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, May 23, 2008 3:07 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
See? You haven't PROVEN anything - you've merely given opinions.

You consider Olbermann a self-absorbed primadonna, yet consider O'Reilly an "entertainer" - they run exactly the same kind of shows! One has a bit of a left-wing bent, and one a decidedly right-wing bent, but they report on the same stories and they both spin them.
- I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean a damn thing when talking about the NEWS media, now does it. THAT is what I'm referring to, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and the bulk of the print/ news paper media is decisively Left wing. Only FOX NEWS even tries to offer up an objective to 'right' slant.

[qutoe] I know you think Faux News is the only one that "gets it right", but they've been caught lying more than Dan Rather. The only people who don't know that are people who only get their news from Faux News.


No, they haven't. More Left wing spin.

As for "treasonous" actions by the NY Times, they were treasonous because the White House ASKED them not to report the story? So if they merely ASK now, and you don't comply, it's treason? But in your book, outting a covert operative during a time of war is NOT treasonous, right? In your world - and Dick Nixon's - it's not a crime if the President does it.


Mike


The White House didn't out any covert operatives, the Plames/Wilson's outted THEMSELVES. Joe Wilson lied, and that's been undeniably proven, so this whole fiasco about them is nothing but a colossal farce on their part to bring down the Administration.


As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper ) running w/ a story which the President asks you NOT to run, why in the hell would they go against the President's wishes in matters of national security ? Even if the matter is a toss up, why not err on the side of security ? No rules or laws were being broken as is, but releasing the story only ended up striking a blow against those trying to fight the terrorist.

Listen, we could do this all day, rehashing the 1000's of cases which prove the news media in predominantly LEFT wing. It's a story which has been done ad nausium , but because I have a life, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.

Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, May 23, 2008 3:26 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
See? You haven't PROVEN anything - you've merely given opinions.

You consider Olbermann a self-absorbed primadonna, yet consider O'Reilly an "entertainer" - they run exactly the same kind of shows! One has a bit of a left-wing bent, and one a decidedly right-wing bent, but they report on the same stories and they both spin them.
- I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean a damn thing when talking about the NEWS media, now does it. THAT is what I'm referring to, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and the bulk of the print/ news paper media is decisively Left wing. Only FOX NEWS even tries to offer up an objective to 'right' slant.

[qutoe] I know you think Faux News is the only one that "gets it right", but they've been caught lying more than Dan Rather. The only people who don't know that are people who only get their news from Faux News.


No, they haven't. More Left wing spin.

As for "treasonous" actions by the NY Times, they were treasonous because the White House ASKED them not to report the story? So if they merely ASK now, and you don't comply, it's treason? But in your book, outting a covert operative during a time of war is NOT treasonous, right? In your world - and Dick Nixon's - it's not a crime if the President does it.


Mike


The White House didn't out any covert operatives, the Plames/Wilson's outted THEMSELVES. Joe Wilson lied, and that's been undeniably proven, so this whole fiasco about them is nothing but a colossal farce on their part to bring down the Administration.


As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper ) running w/ a story which the President asks you NOT to run, why in the hell would they go against the President's wishes in matters of national security ? Even if the matter is a toss up, why not err on the side of security ? No rules or laws were being broken as is, but releasing the story only ended up striking a blow against those trying to fight the terrorist.

Listen, we could do this all day, rehashing the 1000's of cases which prove the news media in predominantly LEFT wing. It's a story which has been done ad nausium , but because I have a life, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.

Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, May 23, 2008 3:28 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
See? You haven't PROVEN anything - you've merely given opinions.

You consider Olbermann a self-absorbed primadonna, yet consider O'Reilly an "entertainer" - they run exactly the same kind of shows! One has a bit of a left-wing bent, and one a decidedly right-wing bent, but they report on the same stories and they both spin them.
- I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean a damn thing when talking about the NEWS media, now does it. THAT is what I'm referring to, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and the bulk of the print/ news paper media is decisively Left wing. Only FOX NEWS even tries to offer up an objective to 'right' slant.

[qutoe] I know you think Faux News is the only one that "gets it right", but they've been caught lying more than Dan Rather. The only people who don't know that are people who only get their news from Faux News.


Caught 'lying' ? By who... Media Matters? The Daily KOS ? Nice try.

Quote:
As for "treasonous" actions by the NY Times, they were treasonous because the White House ASKED them not to report the story? So if they merely ASK now, and you don't comply, it's treason? But in your book, outting a covert operative during a time of war is NOT treasonous, right? In your world - and Dick Nixon's - it's not a crime if the President does it.


Mike


The White House didn't out any covert operatives, the Plames/Wilson's outted THEMSELVES. Joe Wilson lied, and that's been undeniably proven, so this whole fiasco about them is nothing but a colossal farce on their part to bring down the Administration.


As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper ) running w/ a story which the President asks you NOT to run, why in the hell would they go against the President's wishes in matters of national security ? Even if the matter is a toss up, why not err on the side of security ? No rules or laws were being broken as is, but releasing the story only ended up striking a blow against those trying to fight the terrorist. It's simply nonsensical.

Listen, we could do this all day, rehashing the 1000's of cases which prove the news media in predominantly LEFT wing. It's a story which has been done ad nausium , but because I have a life, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.

Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, May 23, 2008 8:07 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
What are you poor reople going to do after January when you don't have Bush to hate on any more?



"Keep the Shiny side up"


Throw a party.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, May 23, 2008 8:13 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Hey, 'Rap - Hit “Reply” again…



Quote:
I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean a damn thing when talking about the NEWS media, now does it. THAT is what I'm referring to, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and the bulk of the print/ news paper media is decisively Left wing. Only FOX NEWS even tries to offer up an objective to 'right' slant.





Okay, I can play the same game. None of your assertions mean a damn thing. They're just more right-wing spin. You haven't proven anything, just repeated the same tired talking points again and again.



I know you don't think anyone in the Administration outed Valerie Plame, but you DO remember Scooter Libby, don't you? He was actually convicted in the case, so I'd say SOMEONE in the Administration had something to do with it. To say otherwise, or to say it's "proven" or "undeniable fact" that it didn't happen is just a lie. Another lie by the right - imagine that!



Quote:
As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper ) running w/ a story which the President asks you NOT to run, why in the hell would they go against the President's wishes...?




Why go against the President's wishes? Because he's the President, not the Emporer or God. Tell me, was it treasonous of Woodward and Bernstein to report on the Watergate case? Was it treasonous to report on the Monica Lewinski scandal, even though the President wished you wouldn't?



Quote:
Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.





Ah, so on the day when MSNBC passes them in the ratings, will you then bow down, admit your mistakes, and sanctify MSNBC as the only "right" news network, simply because they're tops in ratings? C'mon, now - COMMIT to it! If MSNBC surpasses Fox News in the ratings, you will proclaim them the ultimate arbiter of all truth and knowledge. Take the bet. I triple-dog dare you. You know in your heart that it will never happen, so what have you got to lose?



Quote:
No rules or laws were being broken as is, but releasing the story only ended up striking a blow against those trying to fight the terrorist.




So you say. More right-wing spin. "Torture isn't torture any more", and all that. And, by the way, are you sure we're only fighting one single terrorist? You keep referring to us as fighting "The Terrorist" - I thought there were supposed to be more terrorists than just the one...



You will automatically and without fail dismiss ANY news story that comes from what you perceive as "liberal" media. Yet you would ask that we not do the same to YOUR favored news outlet. If it came from the New York Times, it's automatically treasonous, whereas if the exact same story and coverage would have come from Faux News, you'd instantly accept it as fact and patriotic vigilance.



You have absolutely no objectivity. You won't listen to facts, only to the opinions reported by Faux News, so why should I make any effort to accept their views, when you won't do the same courtesy to my chosen news outlets? I get my news from a variety of sources - NBC, CBS, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, BBC, NPR, and others. All have their little slants, but if you pick up the stories from many different angles, you tend to get a better idea what the real picture is.



One thing I *WON'T* be doing is getting my "news" from Faux News. Let's see... O'Really insists that there are NO HOMELESS VETERANS and that John Edwards is making it all up, and then, when he's faced with the facts - and a bunch of actual homeless vets, he tries to deny that he ever said it, or that he meant it. And that's the way it always goes with those bloviating morons at Fox.



PS: "24" is NOT a documentary. It's fiction. You realize that, don't you?



Quote:
Listen, we could do this all day, rehashing the 1000's of cases which prove the news media in predominantly LEFT wing. It's a story which has been done ad nausium...




So, because the assertion has been made ad nauseum, that makes it undeniable fact? So you're admitting that 9/11 was an inside job, a government conspiracy? Because, y'know... THAT assertion has been made thousands of times, too, and rehashed ad nauseum. SAYING IT don't make it so, comprende?



Quote:
The White House didn't out any covert operatives, the Plames/Wilson's outted THEMSELVES. Joe Wilson lied, and that's been undeniably proven, so this whole fiasco about them is nothing but a colossal farce on their part to bring down the Administration.





Ummmm.... No. The White House lied, the President lied, and that's been undeniably proven, so this whole fiasco about him is nothing more than a colossal farce on his part to out an undercover operative. See? I can "prove" things just as well as you... Again, SAYING IT don't make it so.



Oh, and Nobody wants to thank you for staying topical...





Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, May 23, 2008 8:14 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
What are you poor reople going to do after January when you don't have Bush to hate on any more?



"Keep the Shiny side up"


Throw a party.


And how. I threw one when Nixon died, and another when Reagan died. Bush leaving office should be good for at least as big a bash!

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, May 23, 2008 8:15 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Not me whose playing w/ the numbers. I'm just dealin in the facts. Never said W didn't expand Gov't or raise the debt, now did I ? Nope. But the economy did grow after the recession that W inherited. Grew every quarter since his tax cuts went into effect.


Yep. Those numbers totally support your point, as long as you ignore pesky little things like context, and staggering dept and deficits.

Other than that, it's peachy.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, May 23, 2008 8:19 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Not me whose playing w/ the numbers. I'm just dealin in the facts. Never said W didn't expand Gov't or raise the debt, now did I ? Nope. But the economy did grow after the recession that W inherited. Grew every quarter since his tax cuts went into effect.


Yep. Those numbers totally support your point, as long as you ignore pesky little things like context, and staggering dept and deficits.

Other than that, it's peachy.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."


Well... YEAH! You're finally getting it - in 'Crappy's world, you ignore anything that doesn't make your guy look better right here and right now, and the world is a pinker shade of rosy! Besides, debt and deficits? Those sound like the kinds of things that other people should deal with; let's just push them off the table for a few more years, then they won't matter anymore.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, May 23, 2008 8:20 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Almost every major news paper - Liberal

CBS, NBC, MSNBC, ABC = Liberal.



I am still amazed by the insistance by righties that the corporate-controlled media, which has been glancing over or ignore every flaw of McCain, yet spend weeks trumping on the same tired Wright story, is "Librul".

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, May 23, 2008 8:28 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


But didn't you hear? It's been proven by mere dint of 'Rappy saying it over and over! As the right knows all too well, a lie told often enough becomes the truth.

All together now, parrots:

"RRrrraaawwwwwk! WMD! WMD! WMD!
Stay the Course! Stay the Course!"




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, May 23, 2008 8:52 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Umm, y'all DO know that F*X "news" learned their shrill trade of bias and distortion at the knee of the Sinclair Broadcast Group, right ?

Remember I am originally from Baltimore, where the bias and bastardy of Sinclair is quite legendary, especially since it's their main office and they've been meddling in local politics ever since they started backing Schaeffer, a universally hated sumbitch who's only salvation in the political area is the moral and intellectual poverty of his opponents, which sadly, isn't saying very much about either side.

As far as print media, one need look no further than any paper which is a descendant of the original Hearst publishing empire, damn near singlehandedly guilty of inciting a needless war over a fictional and frivilous cause, and doesn't THAT sound familiar ?

From "Remember the maine!" to yellowcake and mushroom clouds, the Hearst bunch has never met a war they didn't love or encourage.

And golly gee, isn't it INTERESTING how from the original robber barons, media moguls and other scum, to the red scare warmongers and trade union busters, to the business plot and fascist support in europe as well as trading with the enemy, and the eventual military industrial complex spawned in the fifties and continuing today to push for war, war, war and profit, profit, profit...

How the same NAMES pop up, over and over again.

So don't blame F*X "news" for carrying on the time honored tradition that's in truth been going on since 1906 - it's just that with the advent of the internet, which they HATE, we now tend to catch them at this shit since they no longer have a total lock on the information that reaches us.

In the real world, there's lies, damn lies, and whatever sludge is on the mainstream news networks.

-Frem
*Support Links
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinclair_Broadcast_Group
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Sinclair_Broadcast_Group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Donald_Schaefer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Randolph_Hearst
http://freepress.org/columns/display/7/2005/1123

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Friday, May 23, 2008 11:11 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Oh, and Nobody wants to thank you for staying topical...

No, Nobody really wants to know what happened over in the "What if no Iraq war" thread.

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Friday, May 23, 2008 11:11 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Oh, but Fremmie, you know nothing you've cited can be trusted, since so much of it came from Wiki, right? I mean, Wiki only counts as factual info if it supports the position of the right!



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, May 23, 2008 11:28 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by BigDamnNobody:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Oh, and Nobody wants to thank you for staying topical...

No, Nobody really wants to know what happened over in the "What if no Iraq war" thread.


What happened? Last I looked, you posted a bunch of gibberish and a bunch of links. I've been a bit busy and haven't really had a chance to look at them yet or rebut them...

Meanwhile, here's a bunch of other links:

Women's rights:
http://www.nancyreaganisabagofonions.com
Rebuilding:
http://www.bushorchimp.com
http://www.youforgotpoland.org/mjames/yfp/

yourself.



Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, May 23, 2008 11:44 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
See? You haven't PROVEN anything - you've merely given opinions.

You consider Olbermann a self-absorbed primadonna, yet consider O'Reilly an "entertainer" - they run exactly the same kind of shows! One has a bit of a left-wing bent, and one a decidedly right-wing bent, but they report on the same stories and they both spin them.
- I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean a damn thing when talking about the NEWS media, now does it. THAT is what I'm referring to, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and the bulk of the print/ news paper media is decisively Left wing. Only FOX NEWS even tries to offer up an objective to 'right' slant.

Quote:
I know you think Faux News is the only one that "gets it right", but they've been caught lying more than Dan Rather. The only people who don't know that are people who only get their news from Faux News.


Caught 'lying' ? By who... Media Matters? The Daily KOS ? Nice try.

Quote:
As for "treasonous" actions by the NY Times, they were treasonous because the White House ASKED them not to report the story? So if they merely ASK now, and you don't comply, it's treason? But in your book, outting a covert operative during a time of war is NOT treasonous, right? In your world - and Dick Nixon's - it's not a crime if the President does it.


Mike


The White House didn't out any covert operatives, the Plames/Wilson's outted THEMSELVES. Joe Wilson lied, and that's been undeniably proven, so this whole fiasco about them is nothing but a colossal farce on their part to bring down the Administration.


As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper ) running w/ a story which the President asks you NOT to run, why in the hell would they go against the President's wishes in matters of national security ? Even if the matter is a toss up, why not err on the side of security ? No rules or laws were being broken as is, but releasing the story only ended up striking a blow against those trying to fight the terrorist. It's simply nonsensical.

Listen, we could do this all day, rehashing the 1000's of cases which prove the news media in predominantly LEFT wing. It's a story which has been done ad nausium , but because I have a life, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.

Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, May 23, 2008 12:20 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
20 + yrs is anything but a "tenuous" relationship, citizen. C'mon now, stop the spinning.
Tenuous now, since he's not his preacher and Obama has distanced himself a great deal. Not my spin at all.
Quote:
And Wright's comments are worse than you think, but you don't even want to acknowledge that anyways.
Not really, they've been blown out of all proportion by 19th century style nationalists, this is verging on the personal AU .
Quote:
The majority of the U.S. media is utterly beholden to the Left wing, and only FOX comes close to getting things right (accurate)
Please, I've given you one example where the entire US media has unfairly exaggerated in one direction, and completely ignored another. You've just stated that the "media is left". It's not a refutation. You've got to show how it is, if all you've got is "foxnews is best, foxnews says so" and "the media is liberal, I heard it some place, it is, really it is", you should take a step back and really think about why it is you think the whole media is liberally biased.

If you've come to that conclusion via your own thought process, you'll be able to give an example or two about where there's been a demonstrated bias (and no, criticising George Bush for once doesn't count). If it's just based on what some guy said, what 'everyone knows', or 'what's been said a million times' then you probably won't be able to back up your statement, and you're just building your house on sand.
Quote:
Hagee and Parsley ? Irrelevant, as you are fond of saying.
I don't think once in a post indicates 'fondness'. Besides I did give reasons (and bloody good ones at that) for why what I said was irrelevant, was irrelevant. The same courtesy would be nice, please.

This is getting boring. You're making flat statements as if they're established fact with no attempt to back them up. Hagee and Parsley are irrelevant because...
Quote:
Bush never said Iraq was an imminent threat, but that we should act BEFORE it becomes one. I'm absolutely sure of this.
Bush said ‘Urgent Threat’, and other Synonyms of ‘imminent threat’, but Donald Rumsfeld and other members of Bush’s administration DID say ‘imminent threat’. In other words, Bush’s administration while clarifying and restaiting the White House and George Bush's opinion, said flat out that Iraq was an imminent threat; George Bush himself alluded to it and said it flat out with different wording. They said Iraq could launch WMDs in 45 minutes at that very moment for crying out loud. I'm starting to feel like Winston Smith...
Quote:
I think it's undeniable there WERE WMD in Iraq, but they were spirited away to Syria before we got there. And even if not, Saddam planned on reconstituting his WMD program, once the U.N. was out of his hair, so it's clear, he wasn't going to play by the rules.
It's totally deniable, because there's no evidence to support it. Beyond that, it's just plain silly. Saddam had Weapons of Mass Destruction that were deployed for launch in 45 minutes, that could threaten the United States of America and its allies, but were easily movable to be hidden under a berry bush in Syria? Erm, ok. If it’s undeniable stagger me with your evidence, you’re making the claim, the burden of evidence is on you.
Quote:
There's no evidence was playing on anyone's fears. He was acting in a prudent, responsible manner.
Did you read what I wrote? I clearly stated that whether you agree with his policies or not, he was playing on peoples fears. If you say “Saddam has teh WMDs and hez gonna blowed up your shit!!!11!!!” you are playing on peoples fears, whether he has the ‘WMDs’ or not. It’s really rather simple. The evidence for where he played on peoples fears is where he says “these guys you should be afraid of, we’re gonna get them”.
Quote:
Actually, the Gore, Durbin, Murtha points were to show them, Democrats, being un-American. I proved that point rather conclusively, thank you.
Where's this proving coming from? Why do you keep saying 'proven' when what you've done is state your own personal belief?
Quote:
Bush said you're either with us, AMERICANS, or you're with the terrorist, those who attacked us on 9/11. I still agree w/ that statement.
Which is exactly what I said. Anyone that doesn't agree with your actions, or the actions of the President, has now been labelled a terrorist or anti-American, Q.E.D.

If you want one you can’t push off on to Johnny Foreigner though, how about “America love it or leave it”. Or to be more honest, “Neo-Con’s, support us or piss off”.
Quote:
If you're referring to Halliburton, then Clinton is their buddy too. He used them , in no bid contracts, as often as Bush. It's a moot point to claim Bush started this war so Halliburton could reap some sort of mega windfall fortune. As is the case w/ the military contracts, the outcome does not automatically condemn those companies who are best capable to take on the jobs. Sorry, such conspiracy claims simply don't hold water.
But but Clinton! Blaming the guy who came before works for maybe the first few months, after that you should open the other envelope, the one with the letter that says “start writing two letters”. Besides, it’s a nice red herring (or rather Strawman ) trying to portray what I said as ‘conspiracy theory’, but the fact remains that the best companies haven’t been getting the contracts, nor have the cheaper ones (hint: that’s how contract bidding is supposed to work). The companies that have been getting the contracts are the ones that happened to be in George Bush's pocket, or perhaps vice versa.
Quote:
Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.
So was Pravda in Soviet Russia.


More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, May 23, 2008 2:12 PM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


Quote:
As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper )
In which
Judith Miller parroted WMD claims w/o question? Liberal???? Wow.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Friday, May 23, 2008 5:58 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
See? You haven't PROVEN anything - you've merely given opinions.

You consider Olbermann a self-absorbed primadonna, yet consider O'Reilly an "entertainer" - they run exactly the same kind of shows! One has a bit of a left-wing bent, and one a decidedly right-wing bent, but they report on the same stories and they both spin them.
- I'll give you that, but it doesn't mean a damn thing when talking about the NEWS media, now does it. THAT is what I'm referring to, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, and the bulk of the print/ news paper media is decisively Left wing. Only FOX NEWS even tries to offer up an objective to 'right' slant.

Quote:
I know you think Faux News is the only one that "gets it right", but they've been caught lying more than Dan Rather. The only people who don't know that are people who only get their news from Faux News.


Caught 'lying' ? By who... Media Matters? The Daily KOS ? Nice try.

Quote:
As for "treasonous" actions by the NY Times, they were treasonous because the White House ASKED them not to report the story? So if they merely ASK now, and you don't comply, it's treason? But in your book, outting a covert operative during a time of war is NOT treasonous, right? In your world - and Dick Nixon's - it's not a crime if the President does it.


Mike


The White House didn't out any covert operatives, the Plames/Wilson's outted THEMSELVES. Joe Wilson lied, and that's been undeniably proven, so this whole fiasco about them is nothing but a colossal farce on their part to bring down the Administration.


As for the NYT ( again, a Liberal news paper ) running w/ a story which the President asks you NOT to run, why in the hell would they go against the President's wishes in matters of national security ? Even if the matter is a toss up, why not err on the side of security ? No rules or laws were being broken as is, but releasing the story only ended up striking a blow against those trying to fight the terrorist. It's simply nonsensical.

Listen, we could do this all day, rehashing the 1000's of cases which prove the news media in predominantly LEFT wing. It's a story which has been done ad nausium , but because I have a life, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince you otherwise.

Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "


Okay... That's actually funny. :)

Thanks for putting a little humor into things.




Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 1:49 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
AuRaptor Wrote
Quote:
Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.



To which I replied, and laid down the following challenge:

Quote:

Ah, so on the day when MSNBC passes them in the ratings, will you then bow down, admit your mistakes, and sanctify MSNBC as the only "right" news network, simply because they're tops in ratings? C'mon, now - COMMIT to it! If MSNBC surpasses Fox News in the ratings, you will proclaim them the ultimate arbiter of all truth and knowledge. Take the bet. I triple-dog dare you. You know in your heart that it will never happen, so what have you got to lose?


Good thing you didn't take that bet, since Countdown With Keith Olbermann beat The O'Reilly Factor in three out of five days last week...

It still troubles me, though. If the media is so left-biased, then how on earth could Fox News be the #1-rated cable news network? It doesn't compute. If they're all so liberal, and that's what sells, then how is it that an un-liberal cable network has the top ratings?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:22 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
AuRaptor Wrote
Quote:
Best I can do for you now is to point to FOX NEWS , which rates #1 on cable for most watched network, and let you try to figure out the rest on your own.



To which I replied, and laid down the following challenge:

Quote:

Ah, so on the day when MSNBC passes them in the ratings, will you then bow down, admit your mistakes, and sanctify MSNBC as the only "right" news network, simply because they're tops in ratings? C'mon, now - COMMIT to it! If MSNBC surpasses Fox News in the ratings, you will proclaim them the ultimate arbiter of all truth and knowledge. Take the bet. I triple-dog dare you. You know in your heart that it will never happen, so what have you got to lose?


Good thing you didn't take that bet, since Countdown With Keith Olbermann beat The O'Reilly Factor in three out of five days last week...

It still troubles me, though. If the media is so left-biased, then how on earth could Fox News be the #1-rated cable news network? It doesn't compute. If they're all so liberal, and that's what sells, then how is it that an un-liberal cable network has the top ratings?

Mike



First of all, I was referring to news ratings, not overall network ratings, or those magazine, opinion driven shows. But goodie for " the biggest a-hole IN THE WORLD!!" Olbermann, Was O'Reily out " on assignment " those 3 nights?

The media IS left wing biased, which is EXACTLY why FOX is doing so well w/ its news. THATS the difference, is FOX not being beholden to the far Left wing template. Many viewers are tired of being spoon fed the Lefts' agenda in the form of 'unbiased' news, and are happy to have a choice w/ FOX's central, slight right leaning view of the world. The Left , until recently , wasn't concerned about ratings, because everyone was giving you basically the same, Left wing line. Now that FOX has been kicking tail, there's been a scramble to mix things up a bit and see what works , or what doesn't work, in getting viewers. ( eg - Katie Couric @ NBC going to CBS )

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:35 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:
( eg - Katie Couric @ NBC )


Sounds like you once again got your "facts" from Faux...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 3:08 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Quote:
( eg - Katie Couric @ NBC )


Sounds like you once again got your "facts" from Faux...

Mike



Yeah yeah, her going FROM NBC to CBS News.

I don't watch t.v. news. Haven't for years. I has nothing to do w/ FOX news, which I rarely even watch either. So get over yourself.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, June 12, 2008 4:53 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Hey, hey, YOU'RE the one who claims to always be dealing in the facts. Guess you're not immune to gettin' 'em wrong, huh?

And I am over myself. I'm not sure I was ever under myself, but I'm definitely over myself.

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

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Friday, June 13, 2008 7:36 PM

ELVISCHRIST


Quote:

The media IS left wing biased, which is EXACTLY why FOX is doing so well w/ its news. THATS the difference, is FOX not being beholden to the far Left wing template. Many viewers are tired of being spoon fed the Lefts' agenda in the form of 'unbiased' news, and are happy to have a choice w/ FOX's central, slight right leaning view of the world. The Left , until recently , wasn't concerned about ratings, because everyone was giving you basically the same, Left wing line.


Wow, I thought you were the one who didn't believe in conspiracies. Remember how long and hard we all laughed when Shillary invoked the "vast right-wing conspiracy"? Now you're implying that there's some sort of vast LEFT-WING conspiracy controlling the media. Funny stuff.

EC

Takin' Care of Business, Baby!

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