Joe Horn did the right thing. by Wulfenstar

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

'Nuff said.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 5:00 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Idiot.

'Nuff said.

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Let's party like it's 1929.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 5:17 AM

JONGSSTRAW

The Grand Jury cleared him of any charges. Aside from that, for me personally, I think the guy is nuts! He risked his life, and possibly others' for what? He killed two people, and he'll have to live with that.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 5:24 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

Horn himself seems to disagree with that

"
Horn would take it all back if he could "

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5866954.html

I think this highlights a few problems

1) Effective Policing, a cop sat in his car outside while this went on ?

2) Appearance of effective policing, seems to me cases like this pop up where there is little faith or trust in the police

3) Rehabilitation, obliviously the repeat offenders were not at all reformed by their previous run ins with the law.

Lots of blame to be passed out

Lets party like its 1939

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 6:29 AM

RIGHTEOUS9

Thank you Jong,

with you on that one.

.

The burglars were stealing somebody's stuff and they were stupid enough to put themselves into a position where there's a chance of getting shot,

but for me, if I don't fear for the immediate safety of myself or another citizen, I don't go out there, and I don't pull that trigger. I don't know everybodies story. I don't assume a person doing a bad thing is rotten to the core. I certainly wouldn't play judge jury and executioner, something that as an agnostic, I tend to lean towards any act levied upon that person's existence, final, in this world or any other.

Do we only appreciate cruel and unusual punishment laws when it isn't vigilante justice we're talking about?

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 6:39 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Some posters' response to frustration appears to be "Shoot somebody. Anybody"

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:03 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Ok, he gave them the chance to surrender. They didn't and he fired. End of story.

He was protecting his neighbors property, true. However, he was being a good neighbor by doing so. I wish my neighbors would do the same thing. But sadly, I live in the Northeast.

Here they pat criminals on the head for being so downtrodden. Poor, poor, little illegal crack-heads...its not your fault.

Its our societys fault that you are are the scum of the earth. Its the "mans" fault that you are worse than an animal.

If the illegal, drug-dealing, criminals had surrendered, they would still be alive today. They made their choice(s) and were delt their punishment.

I mean how stupid is it top rush at a man holding a shotgun?

Maybe as stupid as being an illegal robbing a Texans home.

I hope this sends a message to the rest of the cockroaches out there. F*ck with us and you WILL get a whole lot of lead unloaded into your sorry a**.

He did the right thing and I praise him for it.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:04 AM

I was just gonna post a thread on this event.

The Grand Jury let the guy go.

Some facts
This older white guy saw 2 Mexicans breaking into his neighbor's house and burglarizing it. The neighbor was on vacation. He called 9-1-1. The dispatcher sent the cops. They did not arrive promptly. The guy stayed on the line with the dispatcher, describing the burglars and what they were doing. Finally, he said that they were trying to leave, and he was gonna get his gun and shoot them. The dispatcher told him not to, that the cops were coming. He got his shotgun, and shot, and killed, both burglars. The guy was arrested, charged, and released.

Some additional facts determined later.
At least one of the Mexicans was an illegal alien. At least one of them had a criminal record, as a convicted drug dealer. A plainclothes cop nearby witnessed part of these events.

Commments and questions.

Why didn't the cops get there more quickly? Was this out in the boonies somewhere that it took a long time to drive, or were they loafing? Why didn't that plainclothes cop do something?

Why didn't the guy try to hold the burglars, instead of just killing them? Why didn't he holler, " Freeze , turkeys!" or whatever the TV cliche is, and then shoot if they tried to run? Why didn't he shoot low, to wound or cripple them?

I wonder what the letter of the law is, in Texas. As I understand it, here in California, use of lethal force as self defense is only a legal defense if it is purely defensive, and in defense of your own person, not even another person, and not of property in any case. If you take any offensive action, it's no longer self defense. As the victim, you have to try to escape, and unless the criminal pursues you, it ain't defense. If the criminal stops coming and turns away, incident's over.

Beyond that, I agree with the guy and the Jury. The guy stepped up to help his neighbor, to protect his neighbor's property, after trying to do the right thing by calling the cops. And the illegal alien criminals did, morally , deserve to be punished, if not killed.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:09 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

The point is it is the duty of the police who are trained ( one can hope ) and equipped to handle said situation.

Too many what if's are involved here, what if there was a case of mistaken identity where someone who was suppose to be in the house came out and was confronted with Horn...

or if the cops showed up seen Horn and his shotgun and gunned him down

or someone who had been hiding in the house goes to run away and Horn guns them down.....

Now, my thoughts are the police are becoming less effective

and prisons are not rehabilitating anyone

Lets party like its 1939

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:11 AM

KHYRON

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Why didn't the guy try to hold the burglars, instead of just killing them? Why didn't he holler, " Freeze , turkeys!" or whatever the TV cliche is, and then shoot if they tried to run? Why didn't he shoot low, to wound or cripple them?

He said: "Move and you're dead." ( http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2007_4479736)

I agree with Gino's posts on this.

------------------------------

This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:17 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Ok, he gave them the chance to surrender. They didn't and he fired. End of story.

There seem to be several inconsistencies with this guy's story: He says that he told them to stop, that one guy "charged" him and the other turned to run. As it turns out, both were shot in the back, so both of them were running away.

He says he feared for his neighbor, but I've also heard that he knew his neighbor was on vacation. He said he also feared for himself. In the end, he wouldn't do it again.

Ultimately I don't believe that it's moral or ethical to kill someone unless it's in defense of a life. You'll have to convince me that killing a person under those circumstances was moral, and you'll have to convince me that allowing killing in defense of property w/o consequence will create the kind of society we wish to live in.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:18 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Wulfie

"Ok, he gave them the chance to surrender. They didn't and he fired."

Horn told the Chronicle he went downstairs to get a description of the men for police. But on the 911 transcript in response to the dispatcher's warning that he could get shot if he went outside, Horn said, "You wanna make a bet? I'm gonna kill 'em." (Sounds premeditated to me.)

He shouted "Move, you're dead," words he regrets saying, and fired when one of the men started to charge him, the newspaper reported.

Horn told the newspaper that he turned slightly toward the right and fired toward the second man, Ortiz, who ran toward the neighbor's house. Torres was walking toward him and Horn fired a third time.

Horn confronted the men with a 12-gauge shotgun and shot both in the back. (Supposedly he shot them in the back as they were coming towards him. Either Horn was lying his ass off, or he was so pumped with adrenalin, he literally couldn't see reality. But then, he did hit them. I vote for lying.)

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

Too many what if's are involved here, what if there was a case of mistaken identity where someone who was suppose to be in the house came out and was confronted with Horn...

or if the cops showed up seen Horn and his shotgun and gunned him down

or someone who had been hiding in the house goes to run away and Horn guns them down.....

All good hypotheticals, and we discussed some of them at work, but not strictly relevant in this case.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:27 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Rue-pie....

He killed 2 illegal, drug-dealing, criminal/animals who were robbing his neighbors home.

What exactly is wrong with that?

The cop who showed up (late) on the scene, witnessed what happened.

He testified that it was a justifiable shooting.

2 down, a lot more to go.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
He said: "Move and you're dead."

Missed that in the ( not very detailed ) items I read. Now I wonder about his attitude. Was he being Rambo? Did he go out there to "kill some bad guys"? Offering to bet with the Dispatcher, as it is said he did, suggests an agressive, violent attitude. Maybe.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:38 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
He killed 2 illegal, drug-dealing, criminal/animals who were robbing his neighbors home. What exactly is wrong with that?

First of all, they weren't animals. They were people. Dehumanizing people... calling them "animals", "degenerates", "racially inferior" is just an excuse for murder and... if extended to enough... genocide.

Quote:
2 down, a lot more to go.

And now we know what kind of person YOU are.

Take off your brown coat and put on your brown shirt. It suits you better; you despoil brown coats everywhere.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:39 AM

JONGSSTRAW

Someone breaks into YOUR home while you're there, by all means blast away...you don't know what their intentions are, and you don't have time to ask...that is justifyable self-defense.

What this guy did is nothing of the sort......he initiated the violence, and he shot them dead. He should have stayed in his house as he was instructed to do, and let the police & justice system handle the case.

Also, the first thing they teach you when you take a gun-license safety course is you don't point a weapon as a threat. You don't take a human life over property.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:39 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Gino

There could be any number of reasons for a slow response. One is lack of GPS in patrol cars. Or sometimes (not apparently this time) it happens when people are unable to provide an address and the 911 system doesn't have automatic locators - either cell call tracing or phone system addresses to go with a land line. At other times it's lack of map location in new developments not yet entered into the 911 system - the police have an address but can't find the street or home. Another is priority - threats to life are higher on this list than property crimes. The police could be stretched too thin - too much territory to cover and it takes too long to get from one place to the next even if they leave right away.

So, while I don't know what the problem was, I can see there are many possibilities where the police are not at fault.

And I don't see these as essential problems with the concept, just the usual lack of monetary support, along with lack of support for most other public functions in the US.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:40 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Okay, Texas IS a bit looser with the lethal force laws than several other states. Under Texas law, according to Horn's defense attorney, if you are watching your neighbor's property, under the law it is essentially YOUR property, and you are within your rights to use lethal force to protect it.

Also, under Texas law, you are within your rights to use lethal force to PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY, not only to protect your life. I've looked up the statutes on it, and if someone is doing something so minor as tagging my fence or bashing my mailbox, I am legally within my rights to blow them the hell away.

Does that mean I agree with what Horn did? Hardly. Taking a life is a pretty major thing to do, and you can't step back from it once it's done. I can certainly understand where the urge to do what he did came from; according to one source, he and/or his neighbors had been burglarized repeatedly, and he was simply sick of it. Something similar happened in Austin a few years back, where a guy's Chevy Suburban was broken into no less than four times in two years, and he caught a guy breaking into it again, and he lost it. He tracked the guy down, chased him two blocks, and shot him five or six times in the back, killing him. And he was charged with murder, but a grand jury no-billed him and set him free. Extreme? Possibly, but as one long-ago Texan said, "Texas has more people that need killin' than horses that need stealin'."

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:42 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

WULF, just in case you misede it the first time:

Quote:
He killed 2 illegal, drug-dealing, criminal/animals who were robbing his neighbors home. What exactly is wrong with that?

First of all, they weren't animals. They were people. Dehumanizing people... calling them "animals", "degenerates", "racially inferior" is just an excuse for murder and... if extended to enough... genocide.

Quote:
2 down, a lot more to go.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:43 AM

Another question, that I raise as a *Q*U*E*S*T*I*O*N*, not an accusation.
How much of a role did racism play in this? The shooter was a white guy; the dead guys, Mexicans, even if druggies, illegal aliens, and criminals; the cop was probably white ( although I haven't seen that said anywhere.); it was in Texas, a state with a history of racism of various sorts; and, I'll betcha, the Grand Jury was white.

If this was in Alabama or Mississippi, and the victims were black, no question. In Texas, with Mexicans, maybe/maybe not.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:43 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Whatever Siggy.

I don't feel bad about dehumanizing drug-dealing criminals.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:46 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"I don't feel bad about dehumanizing drug-dealing criminals."

And rag heads, pussy-liberals, and any other group you have a grotch for, no doubt.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:47 AM

GINOBIFFARONI

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Gino

There could be any number of reasons for a slow response. One is lack of GPS in patrol cars. Sometimes (not apparently this time) it happens when people are unable to provide an address and the 911 system doesn't have automatic locators - either cell call tracing or phone system addresses to go with a land line. Sometimes it's lack of map location in new developments not yet entered into the 911 system - the police have an address but can't find the street or home. Another is priority - threats to life are higher on this list than property crimes. The police could be stretched too thin - too much territory to cover and it takes too long to get from one place to the next even if they leave right away.

So, while I don't know what the problem was, I can see there are many possibilities where the police are not at fault.

And I don't see these as essential problems with the concept, just the usual lack of monetary support, along with lack of support for most other public functions in the US.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

Yes, but the failure or even the appearance of failing to act undermines the polices credibility and always seems to show an increase in incidents like this one.

Lack of money / poor force deployment / priority issues / etc

Now, I don't know if this is on going in this area, but I would begin to ask questions about funding, why 10 officers were manning radar speed traps when you had a shortage of officer to respond, etc

it just shows what questions should be asked to address the problem

Lets party like its 1939

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:52 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Another question, that I raise as a *Q*U*E*S*T*I*O*N*, not an accusation.
How much of a role did racism play in this? The shooter was a white guy; the dead guys, Mexicans, even if druggies, illegal aliens, and criminals; the cop was probably white ( although I haven't seen that said anywhere.); it was in Texas, a state with a history of racism of various sorts; and, I'll betcha, the Grand Jury was white.

If this was in Alabama or Mississippi, and the victims were black, no question. In Texas, with Mexicans, maybe/maybe not.

The only racists were the ones sitting with the dead criminals families.

Quanell X (if its misspelled wrong, please forgive me... I have trouble spelling ghetto nonsense names) is pissing himself silly over this. He is part/head of the so-called "New Black Panthers"

Oh, and btw.... Joe Horns neighbors, the ones whose home he was protecting, were Vietnamese.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kwicko:
Okay, Texas IS a bit looser with the lethal force laws than several other states. Under Texas law, according to Horn's defense attorney, if you are watching your neighbor's property, under the law it is essentially YOUR property, and you are within your rights to use lethal force to protect it.

Also, under Texas law, you are within your rights to use lethal force to PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY, not only to protect your life. I've looked up the statutes on it, and if someone is doing something so minor as tagging my fence or bashing my mailbox, I am legally within my rights to blow them the hell away.

Thanx for the answer. Another question-- Did the neighbor say, " Hey, Joe , I'm going on vacation. Watch my place, water my lawn, feed my dog, here's a key in case of emergencty," which would have given him some kind of authorization;, or was he just snooping out the window and he saw this; or, is this entire question irrelevant?

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:59 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wulfenstar:

The only racists were the ones sitting with the dead criminals families.

Quanell X (if its misspelled wrong, please forgive me... I have trouble spelling ghetto nonsense names) is pissing himself silly over this. He is part/head of the so-called "New Black Panthers"

Oh, and btw.... Joe Horns neighbors, the ones whose home he was protecting, were Vietnamese.

See? That's why I asked the question.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:02 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Yes, but the failure or even the appearance of failing to act undermines the policy's credibility and always seems to show an increase in incidents like this one."

Well, people, in the main, get what they are stupid enough to accept. In the end, most would accept policies that underfund schools, hospitals, police etc. b/c they are paid for with (SCREEAAAMMM) taxes. When the institutions then fail (as they can't help but doing, from time to time) the stupid people can then ditch them.

I myself can hardly wait for this to happen. Their utopia will be a sight to behold. I'm very interested in how people will respond to the lack of ERs, public schools, public police, fire departments, trash pickup etc.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:04 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"I don't feel bad about dehumanizing drug-dealing criminals."

And rag heads, pussy-liberals, and any other group you have a grotch for, no doubt.

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Ehh, if any of those groups are f*cking with me and mine, NOT ONE SINGLE BIT.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com
/news/usa/news/article_1378252.php
/Quanell_X_turned_away_by_Texan_Joe
_Horns_neighbors

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:10 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Ehh, if any of those groups are f*cking with me and mine, NOT ONE SINGLE BIT."

So, uhm, if there is a rag-head standing in front of you not bothering you one bit, if he's part of a GROUP that you THINK is f*cking with you in some indirect way ...

***************************************************************
Oh yeah - how about breaking up that link of yours ? Too much to ask ?

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:11 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
me and mine

Well, you weren't there and it wasn't your property or even your neighbor's, so you seem to have a pretty extended view of "me and mine". What you REALLY mean is "Me and people like me".

I noticed that in the other thread about secessionist movements where you kept using the term "we". I wanted to post What means this "we", Kimo-sabe? but didn't have time. It reminds me of the Philipino who said People in my country don't do laundry. Dehumanizing ... it's so easy to do people dont' recognize it even when they're doing it.

ALL God's chillun' are people!

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:16 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Whatever Siggy,

I won't play semantics with you.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:18 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Ehh, if any of those groups are f*cking with me and mine, NOT ONE SINGLE BIT."

So, uhm, if there is a rag-head standing in front of you not bothering you one bit, if he's part of a GROUP that you THINK is f*cking with you in some indirect way ...

All hail Queen of the strawman.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:25 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

All hail Queen of the ad hominem.

And btw it's not a strawman, just extending exactly what he said. You need to look up the definition.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:27 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Rue-bie,

He was dead on. You are the Queen of the Strawmen. lol

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:31 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
I won't play semantics with you.

Then maybe you need to go play with yourself. Semantics, I mean.

Problem is, you apparently don't have a friggin' clue what you mean by "people", "me", and "we". You're totally unconscious. You should take some of those definitions out for a spin. Rev 'em up, take them for a few quick turns and see where they run off the road.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:41 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

In any case,

I don't care about the dead criminals, or their families.

I do care about Joe Horn and his future.

Im sure hes going to be harrassed to no end.

Maybe even Shaquaniquanell...ect ect...X will try and have him killed. (Which is not out of the relm of possibility for that monster)

I just hope that he can get on with the rest of his life.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:47 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Oh yeah - how about breaking up that link of yours ? Too much to ask ?

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:52 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Maybe even Shaquaniquanell...ect ect...X will try and have him killed. (Which is not out of the relm of possibility for that monster)

So Shaquaniquanell...ect ect...X is a monster. Eh. You should look in the mirror.

Wulf, the only thing that we get out of your scenario is vendettas, unecessary bloodshed, and possibly even genocide. Can't you think of a better way?

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:52 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Just wanted to make sure you read it Rue-bie....

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:02 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
Maybe even Shaquaniquanell...ect ect...X will try and have him killed. (Which is not out of the relm of possibility for that monster)
So Shaquaniquanell...ect ect...X is a monster. Eh. You should look in the mirror.

Wulf, the only thing that we get out of your scenario is vendettas, unecessary bloodshed, and possibly even genocide. Can't you think of a better way?

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

What is better than neighbors protecting each other?

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:03 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
What is better than neighbors protecting each other?

What is worse than neighbors shooting at each other?

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:05 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Quote:
What is better than neighbors protecting each other?
What is worse than neighbors shooting at each other?

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

The PC police protecting the criminal/animal element in our midst.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:11 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
The PC police protecting the criminal/animal element in our midst.

Criminals are not animals, they are people. So if you rephrase your statement, you can describe to me how criminals are being "protected" by "the PC police" and we can move on from there.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:13 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"Just wanted to make sure you read it Rue-bie."

Is that why I had to post it twice ? Just curious.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:15 AM

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

Siggy,

Remember, Im not plaiying Semantics with you.

There is a line between being a criminal, and being someone forced into desperate measures.

Those two animals were not "desperate". They were just greedy, and willing to take what was someone elses. On top of it, they were willing to attack a 62 year old man. (Btw, did anyone notice that when they advanced on Mr Horn, one of them was carrying a crow bar?)

Mr Horn stood up against these creatures and gave them both barrels. Literally. If only we could all do the same against such villany, such darkness. (Sorry, don't mean to get all poetical. lol)

You cross that line, you get all of what is coming to you. Hopefully a whole lot of lead to the face.

He did the right thing. Accept it, or don't.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:17 AM

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

"There is a line between being a criminal, and being someone forced into desperate measures."

I'm wondering how Joe Horn was 'forced' into 'desperate measures'. It's a hard case to make when you've left the safety of your home with the avowed and recorded intention of killing, and shot two people in the back.

I see rage, I see vengeance, but I don't see a person left with no way out.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:20 AM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Remember, Im not plaiying Semantics with you.

Mmm...'kay...

Quote:
There is a line between being a criminal, and being someone forced into desperate measures.

Is that ... playing semantics? Drawing a distinction between "desperate measures" and "criminality"?

Quote:
You cross that line, you get all of what is coming to you.

What line is that? Please... describe. I'd like to know which line that is so that I don't accidentally run afoul of your gun.

In the meantime, I'm gonna get back to work.

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Let's party like it's 1929.

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:29 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine

http://youtu.be/VUnGTXRxGHg

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 9:36 AM