Again ? by GinoBiffaroni

on a related note:

US congressional leaders have agreed to a presidential request for up to $400 million in funding for covert operations against Iran, according to a report in the New Yorker magazine.

Previous cross-border operations have included the capture of Iranian security officers and the backing of anti-Tehran armed groups, said the report by Seymour Hersh, the investigative reporter.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas/2008/06/2008630173538122871
.html

Lets party like its 1939

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:28 AM

It's here too:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/30/AR2008
063001940.html

Yeah, again. It'll never stop. It's the Central Influence Agency. We'll blast Iraq, and all of the usual suspects here, upon finding out that no evidence of a nuclear bomb was found, will say they hid it or something, and that Iran was about to destroy our way of life, just like Iraq was.
Power & profit will trump truth & justice once again, and guess what...when gas in America hits $8 a gallon, we still won't realize that our 'way of life' is slowly being destroyed anyway, despite our victorious wars on terrorism.

Snarky Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:37 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
It's here too:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/30/AR2008
063001940.html

Yeah, again. It'll never stop. It's the Central Influence Agency. We'll blast Iraq, and all of the usual suspects here, upon finding out that no evidence of a nuclear bomb was found, will say they hid it or something, and that Iran was about to destroy our way of life, just like Iraq was.
Power & profit will trump truth & justice once again, and guess what...when gas in America hits $8 a gallon, we still won't realize that our 'way of life' is slowly being destroyed anyway, despite our victorious wars on terrorism.

Snarky Chrisisall
]

" Krieger maintains that his client is being further punished by the agency's decision prohibiting him from fully regaining his identity. "He is not even allowed to attend court hearings about his own case," Krieger said. "

Ever watch Burn Notice ?

http://www.usanetwork.com/series/burnnotice/

Lets party like its 1939

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 7:39 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:

Ever watch Burn Notice ?

Definitely. How much more topical could a piece of entertainment be?

Burned Chrisisall

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 8:22 AM

RUE

I have a vote and I'm not afraid to use it!

Sigh ... it's not AGAIN.

It's STILL.

Afghanistan and bin Laden, Iraq and WMD ...

Makes me tired.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 10:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
CIA 'ignored Iran nuclear evidence'...aljazeera.net

Iran, by their own admission, is developing a bomb and has promised to wipe Isreal from the map.

The real problem we have is when Iran drops said bomb on Isreal. Then what do we do? They said they were going to do it, we did nothing, how can we be all mad at them for following through with their national policy? Hell, we're not only going to do nothing...we're actively trying to convince Isreal to do nothing too.

I've always thought that in nuclear war 'taking one for the team' is a stupid expectation to have of one's ally. But then again, the terrorists, Iranians, and Democratic Party would say...they are only Jews...

"Bomb, bomb, bomb...bomb, bomb Iran." If only we could get the Left to turn its back for a day or so...just so some friends of mine could take our buddy Iran for a little walk...and if Iran falls down a few times...

H

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 10:25 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
If only we could get the Left to turn its back for a day or so...just so some friends of mine could take our buddy Iran for a little walk...and if Iran falls down a few times...

Typical NeoCon American justice....

isall

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 11:57 AM

Over the years Israel has done MANY wrongs as a country as well...

Perhaps the west should leave the situation the hell alone and a Détente could be reached once and for all.

Zero foreign aid for any of them.... until they learn to frigging get along. All Western intervention in that part of the world has ever done is make things worse, so perhaps non - intervention is the way to go.

Lets party like its 1939

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 4:47 PM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up

Yep. Once again accusations are immediately taken as fact. Folks involved in lawsuits often make all sorts of claims, but until the suit's adjudicated, that's pretty much all they are.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, July 2, 2008 6:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
Yep. Once again accusations are immediately taken as fact. Folks involved in lawsuits often make all sorts of claims, but until the suit's adjudicated, that's pretty much all they are.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

Bush has made many claims which have turned out to be both false and costly,

unfortunately we are not likely to see adjudication, or any likely consequence... other than the loss of trust

Lets party like its 1939

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 2:24 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Over the years Israel has done MANY wrongs as a country as well...until they learn to frigging get along.

Like yesterday. Poor Palestinian fella just drivin his bulldozer down a crowded street and they just up and shoot him for no reason...

H

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 3:03 AM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Over the years Israel has done MANY wrongs as a country as well...until they learn to frigging get along.

Like yesterday. Poor Palestinian fella just drivin his bulldozer down a crowded street and they just up and shoot him for no reason...H

Yeah, how dare those Israelis not move their cars out of the way of a man on his way to meet Allah and get his full of moustached virgins. I'll tell ya, these Jew-hating Liberal twits just don't get it. One day, maybe soon, a major Israeli city will be nuked just as the Leaders in Iran say they want to do every day, and on that day the moral equivocators of insanity and suicide, the Left, will lean back and say Hmmmm, let's make sure that the "alleged" perpetrators of this "alleged" act of "criminal" violence have all the lawyers, and Constitutional protections as hard-working loyal Americans have, and that if Israel acts in any way to defend itself, then the leaders can be tried for war crimes. What a sick, pathetic, suicidal, pompous, and dangerously arrogant crowd you all are indeed.

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 3:21 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
What a sick, pathetic, suicidal, pompous, and dangerously arrogant crowd you all are indeed.

It's nice to be appreciated.

A Neutron Bomb would solve many problems over there....

Radical Chrisisall

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 4:47 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Riverlove:
One day, maybe soon, a major Israeli city will be nuked just as the Leaders in Iran say they want to do every day, and on that day the moral equivocators of insanity and suicide, the Left, will lean back and say Hmmmm, let's make sure that the "alleged" perpetrators of this "alleged" act of "criminal" violence have all the lawyers, and Constitutional protections as hard-working loyal Americans have

Thats after they spend a few months blaming Bush and America for failing to deal with the Iranian threat.

I noticed the other day that Iran threatened to close off the Persian Gulf if they are threatened. Fine. If I were President and Iran attacked Isreal or threatened the free flow of oil, I would make Iran very aware of the definition of the word "superpower". Its not like you have to take over ALL of Iran. Most of the oil production in located in the Southwest corner or off the coast. Geography allows the isolation of that corner by blocking mountain passes. Then we could 'help' Iran's nuclear efforts by 'demonstrating' how nuclear bombs are supposed to work. After all the free flow of ideas is what America is all about.

"This is what a bomb does when detonated over a Silkworm missile battery."
"This is what a bomb does when detonated over a Pasdaran military training center."
"This is what a bomb does when detonated over Omidiyeh Air Base in Khuzestan Province."
"This is what a bomb does when detonated inside your underground military command center."
"This is what a bomb does when detonated over the capital of your country."
"Now lets talk delivery systems...this is the missile we can shoot from North Dakota...thats a place in North America...as in the OTHER side of the world...hence the term, 'Intercontinental'...as in Intercontinental Ballistic Missile. Yeah...we have about 500 of those."
"This is the missile we can shoot from the submarine that can carry up to twelve independently targeted warheads...gee, how many bombs have you made...less then twelve...wow...and that submarine alone carryies 24 of those missiles...and we've got lots of those subs...kinda gives new meaning to the term "outgunned"...hahaha."
"This is the B-2 Stealth bomber..."

H

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 5:02 AM

PIRATECAT

I am just glad the Kurds don't have to worry about WMDs. Lets enjoy the 4th. Boom.

"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 5:26 AM

ANTHONYT

Freedom is Important because People are Important

Hello,

I have some observations on this topic.

1) The United States does not need to do anything in order to stop Iranian agression. We have already taken all the steps necessary. We have sold arms and equipment to the best trained, most motivated ally in the region, and we can expect them to take steps to protect themselves. Israel has a superlative record of attacking anyone that is a potential threat to their interests, be it American Intelligence Ships or Arab War Machines.

2) The United States does not seem to be in a big hurry to militarily intervene against aggressive nations who do not have resources that our corporations are eager to exploit.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 6:23 AM

ELVISCHRIST

Quote:
I would make Iran very aware of the definition of the word "superpower". Its not like you have to take over ALL of Iran. Most of the oil production in located in the Southwest corner or off the coast. Geography allows the isolation of that corner by blocking mountain passes.

That's all fine and good, but I don't think you can do it. The utter failure of America to secure even such a place as Iraq - where we were supposed to be hailed as "liberators" - shows that the US military isn't exactly being all that it can be...

Takin' Care of Business, Baby!

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 7:31 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
That's all fine and good, but I don't think you can do it. The utter failure of America to secure even such a place as Iraq - where we were supposed to be hailed as "liberators" - shows that the US military isn't exactly being all that it can be...

In this case our 'occupation' of Iran would be predicated by the Iranian use of nuclear weapons against Isreal. In that situation we could reasonable respond by the large scale use of such weapons throughout north and central Iran destroying Iran's ability to make war (or much of anything else) and in the process eliminating the largest segment of the population as a whole and the hostile factions in particular. The resulting economic and social collapse of the infrastructure and large scale depopulation of the country would make it ripe for colonization...er...reconstruction.

H

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 7:49 AM

RIVERLOVE

Quote:
Originally posted by ElvisChrist:
That's all fine and good, but I don't think you can do it. The utter failure of America to secure even such a place as Iraq - where we were supposed to be hailed as "liberators" - shows that the US military isn't exactly being all that it can be...

No one can argue with that. The Hussein's had that country so "organized" and stable, that the outbreak of chaos and ultra-violence that ensued was either grossly under-estimated, or just simply un-imagined. Either way, you can't look at the whole disaster as anything other than a failure of leadership and intelligence. Brave and valiant soldiers were put into a meat grinder, turned into cannon fodder, all due to military and civilian blunders at the highest levels of authority. It's a national humiliation.

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 8:27 AM

STORYMARK

It shows how far the neocons have fallen, and how shakey thier ground is, when they have to continually call liberals "jew-haters" just because we don't want to nuke ever Arab in the world....

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:31 AM

ELVISCHRIST

The conservatives are now "courting" the Jewish vote, and if that goes well, they might even let one or two of them join their country club!

It's just a bit ironic that the NeoCons are now claiming to be PRO-Israel, despite a legacy of selling weapons to Israel's enemies and negotiating with Iran and giving them weapons as well.

Takin' Care of Business, Baby!

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:53 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Iran, by their own admission, is developing a bomb and has promised to wipe Isreal from the map.

Quote that or shut up. But make sure that the quote was NOT translated by MEMRI; they have a history of egregious "translation errors".

Quote:
The real problem we have is when Iran drops said bomb on Isreal. Then what do we do?

Nothing. Israel already has nuclear bombs... something that everyone (except maybe you)... including Iran... is already aware of.

---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 9:58 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.

Quote:
Fine. If I were President and Iran... threatened the free flow of oil I would make Iran very aware of the definition of the word "superpower".

Oh, so you would nuke Iran over oil. Why am I not surprised? It really IS all about oil, isn't it?

BTW, in your typically ignorant fashion, you would not only block to flow of Iranian oil you'd also block to flow of MOST oil coming from the Mideast. Have you bothered to look up The Straits of Hormuz?

Nothing like shooting off you own foot, eh? Pretty much like invading Iraq to "fight terrorism".

Gawd, it's the blind leading the blind!
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 10:06 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
But then again, the terrorists, Iranians, and Democratic Party would say...they are only Jews...

I've got a bit of a problem with that assertion. YOU - the Republicans - trained and armed the terrorists. YOU - the Republicans - sold Saddam untold millions of tons of war materiel. YOU - the Republicans - traded Iranian terrorists weapons and cash, all while that lying piece of garbage Ronald Reagan claimed that "we don't negotiate with terrorists". YOU - the Republicans - sold AWACS aircraft and technology to Saudi Arabia, and then gave them military bases. YOU - the Republicans - cut and ran and pulled all the US troops out of Lebanon when a barracks was bombed by terrorists, killing hundreds of US Marines.

YOU have cut deals with the Saudis, the Pakistanis, the Egyptians, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, and a host of others who have sworn to wipe Israel from the map and refused to allow the Jews the simple right to exist.

It was the Democrats who declared war and defeated Hitler. It was the Democrats who led the charge for the founding of Israel in 1948. It's the Democrats who've continuously been on the side of the Jews, and it's YOU - the Republicans - who have tried to keep them out of your country clubs, and it is YOU - the Republicans - who have been claiming for years that America is a "christian" nation. Not a Jewish nation, but a christian one.

And it's YOU - the Republicans - who downplay the deaths hundreds of thousands, probably MILLIONS, of Iraqis in YOUR stupid war by saying "...they're ONLY muslims". It is the Republicans who have time and again dismissed the deaths of entire groups of people because they're "only" something other than rich, white, and American.

Just for the record, how many Jews have the Republicans elected to Congress? Hint: Lieberman doesn't count, since techincally he's still listed as a Democrat. And don't tell me he's really on your side; it was YOU - the Republicans - who came up with the "Sore Loserman" stickers after the 2000 election. Tell me again why you voted against a Jew for Vice President, if you're the party who just LOVES the Jewish people.

Also, it should be noted that it's YOU - the Republicans - who are now saying that we should appease Iran. Bush himself has said that he wants things to be handled diplomatically; yet when Obama suggests something along those lines, he's suddenly an "appeaser".

As for what to do about Iran, I'd say let the Israelis handle it their own way. Israel is no stranger to threats against it or to wars waged against it by other nations in the area. In every instance, it is Israel who has to be reined in and told to give back some of the land they've taken away from the big, bad, boogeymen that surround them. They're more than up to the challenge, and it's not like them staging an attack against Iran is going to make them LESS popular in that area of the globe...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 10:11 AM

KWICKO

Quote:

I noticed the other day that Iran threatened to close off the Persian Gulf if they are threatened. Fine. If I were President and Iran attacked Isreal or threatened the free flow of oil, I would make Iran very aware of the definition of the word "superpower".

So you're saying that if Iran decides they no longer want to sell us their oil, you'd bomb them? Tell me again how that fits in with all your "free market" economic policy. They're free to sell us their oil, as long as they don't go thinking they actually own it or anything, or as long as they don't have any say in who they sell it to, right?

And by the way, bombing Iran to get cheaper oil prices is going to be exactly as effective as invading Iraq was. See if you can get Rupert Murdoch to explain again how that was going to work...

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 11:41 AM

KWICKO

Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:
Iran, by their own admission, is developing a bomb and has promised to wipe Isreal from the map.
H

You will, of course, provide cites for these assertions?

Here's something interesting from BBCNews:

Quote:
A recent report suggested that Israel might act before two "red lines" are reached.
The first would be the production by Iran of enough highly-enriched uranium to make a nuclear bomb and the second would be its acquisition of a new Russian anti-aircraft system, the S-300.
However, Iran is not making highly enriched uranium suitable for a weapon, only low-enriched uranium useable as nuclear power fuel.
The International Atomic Energy Agency would probably spot any move to change this. So exactly how and when this "red line" might be reached is unclear.
As for the S-300, it was only in December that Iran indicated that it would buy this very advanced anti-aircraft system. It has only recently taken possession of the Tor-MI and it could be many months before the S-300 is delivered.
Iran says that it has no intention of developing nuclear weapons and a US National Intelligence Estimate has concluded that it probably gave up a nuclear weapons programme in 2003.

So we have Iran unequivocally saying that they are NOT pursuing a nuclear weapons program, and the IAEA and the US NIE have both concluded that this appears to be the case.

But obviously, we better nuke them just to be sure, right?

Mike

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock

The Myrmidons were an ancient nation of very brave and skilled warriors as described in Homer's Iliad, and were commanded by Achilles. - Wikipedia

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Thursday, July 3, 2008 3:31 PM